QUOTE(Debi @ Apr 30 2005, 12:28 PM)
I'm very sorry if I have affended you. I should have clarified my writing. I am referring to the " lets say the governing group "who lay down the man made laws and dogma. It was the council who decreed that to be the ultimate truth and all else to be considered lies Lets get this straight ok I take it you are catholic??
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No. I am not Catholic
QUOTE(Debi @ Apr 30 2005, 12:28 PM)
Is it not true the church was the main one out of which all the rest of (quote) christian churchs flowed ? Each seeking truth? Its not just that church but so many of them that proclaim fact based on man made theory. The gnostics were proclaimed heretics because they did not believe and simply refused to believe catholic doctrine and to this very day gnosticism is still condemned by the church. I am sorry but it is my opinion that any church that claims to be holy and commits such atrocious acts is not a holy church and that goes for any church.
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The Bible talks about these things.
QUOTE(Debi @ Apr 30 2005, 12:28 PM)
Thats not to say that over the course of time there haven't been God fearing people who have been part of the governing church. Pope john paul was a very good man. He reached out to the people. he did not try to force his beliefs on others and kill them because they refused. One can think of the word church as a form of government or they can think of it as a group of fellow believers making a church a church. when I speak about the church I am referring to the governing branch who control the beliefs and install their beliefs upon those who are eager to serve god yet are not old/nor wise enough to seek for themselves but are brainwashed to believe others beliefs whether they are based on truth or falsehoods. They are followers and not leaders. It is all religion to teach their followers to read only their books and to go to their schools to be educated. To go to their higher schools of learning so that as priest etc. they will not doubt their faith??? Is this not a form of brainwashing? It most certainly is.
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Yes, it is. But I dont see what this has to do with "Jesus."
Are we talking about politics? Or religion? A church is completly different than a government unless the government controls the church. In many cases this has happend. So you can't really blame the church on something the government made them do.
QUOTE(Debi @ Apr 30 2005, 12:28 PM)
Is it not true that the catholic church got its hands on the dead sea scrolls and refused to release them to the world and now many years later pieces are missing. The church has many strikes against it many. more so then any church I am aware of that is according to history I do not understand how you can defend anything with a record that is not so good especially when it lays claim of its holiness either my understanding of holinesss is a misconception or the church itself(the governing body) is a deception one based on hypocrisy Ever wondered about the passage concerning the children and what about those who are wolves in sheeps clothing??? ummm food for thought. All religions have good and bad in them it is up to every single individual that is of age to find out what the origins of their particular religion is and how it came about and who decided what to be the foundation of its doctrines. Afterall ones life is affected by their beliefs are they not??? Are you Free or are you bound by another mans theorys of GOD???? -sin and whatever else has been conjured up over the centurys as doctrine???? controlling and ruling peoples pocketbooks and lives. I fail to see any holiness in many churchs If they were so righteous there would be no starving people instead I see rich governing churchs who sit in their wealth. As for the missionarys I give them due for they are the ones out there trying to help. But the church itself -- I don't recall jesus or any of the others who wore diamonds and rubys etc. were overweight from a fine selection of food while millions of others starved to death I don't recall jesus or others living in huge extravagant buildings do you??? Are not christians to be followers of the christ??? seems to me something is not right! Christians are to set an example right? well now does that not include the governing church. Do they not claim to be christian? ummm What I say go's for any church who's leaders lay around on the tithes of the people instead of putting it to good use . If all who are wealthy would give of their money just alittle there would be no starving people in this world and while we know governments can be corrupt churches on the other hand are supposed to be made up of God fearing people and truth is these corrupt people could not be if it were not for the backing support.
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To sum it up (I'm tired of reading) you make it sound like Christians are "brainwashed." Anyway, I don't really care, but I do not go to church, for I know some of the things that churches do, and what they spend their money on. And churches in the past have done some of the things you mentioned yes. But go back and read my previous post.
The Bible talks about things like this. Its the "truth." Its in there, you just need to find it.