QUOTE(Stellar @ May 6 2005, 01:41 AM)
QUOTE
Would you willingly die a horrible, painful death for people that actively hated you?
If I loved them, yes. Either way, your question means nothing. Clearly, its not right to sacrifice your son instead of yourself for others...
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For the record, I would sacrifice myself for loved ones. Perhaps even people I didn't know (if it was a spur of the moment thing, and I didn't have time to think about it and just jump into peril). And if I had a child for example, who hated me, i would still die for them because they were my child. But if it wasn't my child (or mother, father, brother etc) and they hated me, I would not die for them. Simple.
As i said in my previous post, these are loaded questions that you have asked to get a particular response from people. Obviously you are saying that God is evil (or at the least gutless) because he sacrificed his son instead of himself.
I beg to differ. In response, I point you to the triune nature of God. God is three persons in one. God the Father, God the Son, GOd the Holy Spirit, all seperate, all one. God loves His son - "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!" (Matthew 17:5), and as all of you on this thread have attested, anyone who loves their child would do anything to protect them. But God loves us so much that he was willing to allow His son to suffer FOR US. To me, this does not show an evil, gutless God - rather a God of endless and wonderful love.
And you make Jesus out to be an innocent child being sent to slaughter. Jesus had a choice - he didn't have to die. He certainly didn't want to die - "Abba, Father," he said, "everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will." (Mark 14:36)
Here is an except from a recent High School Youth Group talk I gave -
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You see – Jesus didn’t just die. He died a painful death. I don’t know if you know exactly what Jesus went through, so let me tell you. He was whipped, beaten, mocked, made to carry his cross through town. He had a crown of thorns rammed on to his head – and these are no ordinary thorns you see on a rosebush in your garden. They’re desert thorns which are big and thick – ripping and tearing flesh. Finally, he was put up on to the cross – nail’s as big as rail-road spikes shoved through his hands, and his feet. Do you know how you die in crucifixion? It’s not heat stroke or lack of water. It’s not blood loss. You drown. That's right - drown. You see, when you’re up on the cross you’re using your muscles to hold yourself up. When you get too tired, you slump down, putting pressure on your lungs so you can’t breathe. Eventually liquid gets into your lungs and you drown. It’s not pleasant. Not nice at all. And so the most wonderful thing about this is that as bad as this death was, at any point, Jesus could have snapped his fingers and gotten down from that cross. He didn’t want to die; no one does – especially not that way. But Jesus chose to die this way, so that we could have eternal life. He could have, at any point said, “I don’t want to go through this anymore. I’m getting out of here.
Jesus CHOSE TO DIE this way. He had a choice. Jesus' endless and wonderful love shows through here too, that he would go through this torture for those who hated Him.
Sorry for the length of the post. Until next time all,
btw, this post may have been better put in the Spirituality vs Skepticism board. Your first post was innocuous enough, but you obviously had designs in bringing what you believe to be the calloussness of God to the fore. I sincerely hope I am not breaking the rules of this message board with this post. If i am, MOD's - feel free to take it out.