you have heard of trinitarianism right?
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Another question I forgot to write was:

**If God (the holy spirit) is Jesus' biological father and not Joseph, how cold he have come out of the house of David, thus fulfilling that prophecy?
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Because David is a Jew and a Jew is decided by if the born child's mothers a Jew, then the child is a Jew. So Jesus is indeed from the line of David.
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So maybe Paul heard of the story of Jesus and thought him to be the reincarnation of Mithras the Christos, maybe?
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Hinduism has three main gods (or incarnations of the same god, or no god at all depending on who you ask), Brahma (the creator), Vishnu (the preserver), and Shiva (the destroyer and regenerator). Brahma is the only one that really fits in strongly with the Christian trinity. Jesus could be seen as a preserver, but i am currently reading an article that puts Jesus' relationship in the trinity as God's Wisdom. im not really sure where the Holy Spirit being a destroyer and regenerator comes from.
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Great read and Mithra vs. Christianity
http://tektonics.org/copycat/mithra.html
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Please, we are talking about the concept of trinity itself. And the concept itself has obviously has been borrowed and modified. Three deities that are one? You can't get any closer.
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Yey, another J. P. Holding advocate.
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O PLEASE, did you even bother to read? He unlike you actually researches and doesn't google w/e comes up. He has tons of sources he lists. It's a well written thing and you haven't even read it and are already judging it.
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Please, we are talking about the concept of trinity itself. And the concept itself has obviously has been borrowed and modified. Three deities that are one? You can't get any closer.
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I have a few questions that maybe someone could explain to me.  I am not in any way attacking christianity, but I just want to know if some questions that I have can be answered.  I have asked these questions to other christians trying to get me to go back to being a christian but none have been able to clarify these biblical inconsistencies. So here they are:



1.)  Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
**We all know that Jesus is thought to be God on earth, the son of God (and man), and one with God.  If this is so, why does this verse contradict the entire doctirne of christianity about Jesus?
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2.)James 1:13
When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone.
**Once again, if Jesus is God, why would his being tempted contradict this verse?
NIV Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are-- yet was without sin.

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3.)NIV James 1:17
Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
**Why does it say that God does not change and later on showing a God that has a change or increase in intelligence? and furthermore, increases in favor with himself (as if they were two completely different entities?)
NIV Luke 2:52
And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.
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4.)NIV 1 Timothy 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
Numbers 23:19
God is not a human being, that he should lie, or a mortal, that he should change his mind.

**We all know that Jesus died on the corss, yet this says that God cannot die!
NIV 1 Corinthians 15:3
For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.

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5.)Isaiah 46:10
I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.
**God knows everything, yet Jesus (God on earth but still God) does not?
Mark 13:32
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

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6.)Isaiah 40:28
Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired. His understanding is inscrutable.
**How is it that God does not grow weary yet Jesus (God) does?
John 4:6
So Jesus, being wearied from His journey, was sitting thus by the well. It was about the sixth hour.

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7.)**Why would God pray to himself? For example when Jesus on the corss told God (himself) to forgive his persecutors for they know not what they do, or when he pray to God (himself) and asked if there be any other way? Would not God (who is the way) just make a way for himself?

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8.) Lastly, if Jesus and God are onein the same, then tell me, when the apocalypse comes and Jesus comes back on a white horse to judge all, where will God be during all of this, and how can God sit at his own right hand unless he is two, or more? 

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Sorry Amalgamut, but you have no point here. Jesus is not human, or part human, he is GOD. 100%.
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And to say that he didn't know when the end of the world was because Satan would then know whats in Jesus' heart is ridiculous.

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You cant weasel out of this one.
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Jesus makes up the Trinity.
3 in 1. 1 in 3.
Tri-unity.
Why is this concept so hard for people to grasp?

Then why did Satan try and temp Jesus in the first place?
Do you think Satan just "had a hunch?"
He knew Jesus' intentions, and what was in His heart.

Because it has been improperly adopted in the first place.
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If Jesus was partly human, he would have sinned. But because he was God, he couldnt sin.
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If so, what is the "proper" adoption?

Exactly, Jesus did not sin. But had he known "the day and the hour" Satan would have known, because Satan read Jesus like an open book.

I don't know if there is one in this case. It is said that Jesus will sit at the right hand of his father in heaven, as if he is a lesser being than his father, when according to the trinity they are one, thus equal.

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Thats an opinion not a fact, and what would it matter if Satan knew? Is he going to ruin God's plan somehow?
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No. But God doesn't want anymore trouble then he needs, during this time.

You would think if Christianity were false, Jesus would have said the exact date.

He could have said "The day will be next week!!! Give me your money, so you will be saved!!!"

Thus, Jesus would have been rich.

Thats a pretty silly response. Where does it say that in the Bible?
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And ruin the suspense? No way. There is a good reason why he did not say when it's gonna happen, but that it can happen any time. So that every generation would think that it might happen during their life-time.
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You dont get it, do you? Christianity was created as a tool to control the masses over a long period of time, perhaps as far as possible.
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It doesn't. Its called common sense.

Then tell me...if Jesus was lying, what would have he gained from all his troubles? Nothing.

You missed my point completly.

And where does it say "Christianity was created as a tool to control the masses?" Oh wait, I remember, its on page 3, section 4 of the "Skeptics Handbook."
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So you interpreting God's will through common sense now? WHat makes you think that Satan can somehow "trouble" God if he knows when the end of the world comes, and that God doesnt want that?
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Who said he was lying? Who said there was even a Jesus? I'm arguing that Jesus is a tool created to control the masses. Thus, he is not going to say that the end of the world will come in a week, give me your money. No, he, i.e. his creator(s), want people to live thinking that the end of the world might come at any time.
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No, I see your point just fine, but its completely irrelevant. My argument is that Christianity is just another religion, like all the rest of them, designed to create and maintain a certain social order. It has borrowed many ideas from previous religions and myths, including the concept of Christ and the Holy Trinity, which was adopted from Hinduism to justify the existence of Jesus. But like I said in the post at the top, apart from trying to make the NT convincing, the Christian concept of the Holy Trinity makes no sense and has no purpose.
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Thanks for your response, but I think you got a little bit away from what I was asking.

1.)Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent.
  **In this scripture, I was not emphasizing the part about repenting or lying.  That could not be a charateristic of either God or Jesus.  My emphasis was on the part where God made sure to let everyone know that he is not a man, nor should he be called the son of man.  THis scripture was written hundreds of years before Jesus' arrival.  And if we all know that God does not change, why would he change his position on whter he was a man or son of man?

2.)you wrote "Thats why in James 1:13 it says "God" and not "Jesus.""

**Right there you are differentiating between two beings who are supposed to be one in the same.  Either way, if, as you said, "Jesus was God in the flesh.", if they are supposed to be one in the same, they should not have different characteristics, which is what you are alluding to. 
Also, if we carry this verse out a little further, we see that one can only be tempted when he posesses and evil desire, which if the bible were to be true, this would have to be true of Jesus also.
"14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. "

3.)You said that "This means, he does not present himself as being good but then turn around and say he is someone else."  I don't think that this was the only type of change that was being discussed.  I can remember many preachers saying that God is the same "now and forevermore", this would mean that God does not change from good to bad (as you stated) nor does he change postitions on a subject, change in knowledge, or change in mercy.

4.)You said, "You are right, God cannot die. Thats why in the scripture it says "God" and not "Jesus." Although, Jesus did die, he died in the human form, but not in the spirit."
**I don't understand what is meant by "God and not Jesus", they are supposed to be one in the same, just on different planes (eg. God in heaven Jesus on Earth).  You cannot keep saying that they are the same in certain circumstances and different in others.  Furthermore, we all die in human form and yet live in the spiritual form, does that make us all equals with Jesus?  Or does that make Enoch or Lazarus equals with Jesus?


5.)How can God keep information from himself?  You said that Jesus is in fact God, so how does the right hand of God not know what the left hand is doing?

6.)As far a a physical body goes, I agree that anything in the flesh can get tired, but we are talking deities here, but how can you keep saying the Jesus can do this but God cannot, and God knows this, but Jesus does not. 

If I travel to another country , would I still not retain all my thoughts, knowledge and memories?  So how can God incarnate himself on Earth and lose half of his knowledge?

7.)"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns [diadems]. He has a name written on him that no one but he himself knows. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. (Revelation 19:11-16 NIV)"

Jesus is in fact foretold to come back one a white horse ( just as he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey).

You said, "Jesus + God + The Holy Spirit= The Holy Trinity"
If the bible is to be consistent, the Jesus's knowledge does not equal God's knowledge which does not equal the Holy Spirit's knowledge.  It does not add up that one inthe same do not have the same knowledge.
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Some things God does are pretty obvious. Again, I say that Jesus did not know the exact day because had he known, Satan would have known as well. God could easily handle Satan if he knew, but there is simply no point in him knowing. Jesus' soul purpose for coming here was not to tell people when the end of the world would come. There is simply no point in letting Satan know when this day is. Satan knows too much already. It would be foolish to let him know anymore. Thats like telling the enemy your secrets, before a huge battle. Would you call that common sense in not telling the enemy any secrets? I would.

Many religions exist today without "Jesus." It is not a tool to control the masses. Look at Judaism, they believe Jesus existed, however they do not believe he was the Son of God. They merely think he was a prophet, and in fact he was. However, he was also the son of God.

The reason why God wants us to believe in Jesus is because "Jesus" was the son of God. If people don't believe this, then they are not Christians. If you were god, and you sent a son here to save us, wouldn't you want people to believe that he came from you? Or would you want people to write him off as nothing? God doesn't like it when people do this. Therefore, if you do no believe that Jesus was the Son of God, you are not a Christian.

Furthermore, many people aren't Christians just because they think the world is going to end. Many Christian's know that they probably won't live to see the end of days. The story of Revelation is based on redemption, and the end of all evil.

You are right. Christianity is just another religion. However, it is very distinct. The Bible is very clear in telling us the story of God, and what it takes to get to heaven. God doesn't want us to believe in him just because there is a hell. He wants us to truly believe that he is the one and only true God, and that he sent his only son here to save us. Many other religions don't have a hell, so therefore the question arises "why would anyone want to practice a religion if they knew there was no hell?" Well, many people do, but Christianity didn't "invent hell" to scare people into it. The Bible simply tells us how it is, and how it's going to be. God told us that if we do not believe, then bad things can happen. God doesn't hide the truth from us. He does not sugar coat anything.

Moreover, law's are made to maintain social order, not religion. Without law, there would be more crime. Religion does help I suppose, but not as much as law. Christianity allows us to repent, whereas law does not. We cannot break the law and simply say "I'm sorry." We must pay the consequences. We cannot repent a crime.

The Holy Trinity is used to show us that God is all knowing. It consists of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

God was the creator. Jesus was his son, sent here to teach and to save, and the Holy Spirit is used to signify the ever presence of God. The Holy Spirit is everywhere. This in turn forms the Holy Trinity. God knows what Jesus knows, as well as the holy spirit. The holy spirit is the all knowing power of God. God is Jesus, just as much as you are part of your son. The two of you are essentially the same. Yet slighly different. Thats why its called the "Holy Trinity" it is a "Tri-unity" of three that make up the same group. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, the Holy Trinity makes sense. Therefore, it has a purpose.

ScienceGuy an other question. If Christians were borrowing the idea of a trinity, why was it put into doctrine at two separate councils 56 years apart? the council of nicaea in 325 decided on the Father-Son relationship, while the council of constantinople decided in 381 to add the Holy Spirit.

"The word itself [Holy Trinity] does not occur in the Bible...The explicit formula was thus formulated in the post-biblical period, although the early stages of its development can be seen in the NT. Attempts to trace the origin still earlier (to the Old Testament literature) cannot be supported by historical-critical scholarship, and these attempts must be understood as retrospective interpretations of this earlier corpus of Scripture in the light of later theological developments." The Harper Collins Study Bible Dictionary

Historian Will Durant: "Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it. . . . From Egypt came the ideas of a divine trinity." And in the book Egyptian Religion, Siegfried Morenz notes: "The trinity was a major preoccupation of Egyptian theologians . . . Three gods are combined and treated as a single being, addressed in the singular. In this way the spiritual force of Egyptian religion shows a direct link with Christian theology."

MrScienceGuy, I don't know how to make my point anymore clear. It seems as if you keep saying the same thing, and I come back and answer it, and then you ask the same thing again.

Also, I don't care what Mr. Durant has to say. I could say that Christianity did not adopt paganism. Thats just my word against his.

As for the Trinity, let me give you the definition again...

No you are not answering it, you are dodging the question. Once again, you previous argument rested on the idea that the reason why Jesus didn't know when the end of the world would come is because Satan would cause "trouble." I want you to back up your thinking with the scriptures. Either there is such evidence in the Bible, or you are making stuff up. Which one is it? It's a simple question, give me a simple answer.

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No it's not just your word against his. He has sufficient evidence to conclude what he says. You dont. Christians don't even argue that Christianity did adopt paganism to some extent, they just don't agree on the degree.
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I dont need your definitions, I'm well aware of what it is.
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What you don't realize is that Trinity was artificially created by the Council of Nicaea many years after the Bible was written and it went through a lot of transformations through the years.
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They themselves couldnt agree on what the definition of the trinity was, as it applied to Christianity. It was made up by humans, not God. Its fake.
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It was borrowed from other religion.
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I answered your question several times. I gave you the "simple answer" three times now. Did I ever say scripture said this exact thing? No, but then again a certain level of common sense is needed when reading the Bible. Again, like I said, some things are pretty apparent. If you cannot see this, then I suggest you stop asking questions and start doing more reading. You never even answered the question, "Would you tell the enemy your secrets of a planed invasion?" I'm hoping your answer would be "no." God is not an idiot, he would in no way want to help Satan. How many times must I tell you this?

So you are saying that this man knows everything? Ah, I see now. Did you ever stop and think to yourself that Christianity (regardless of where it was adopted from) is the truth? No, I see that you have not. However, you say this man has credibility, so therefore he must be right. Better yet, he must be God.

Plus, you being a science man, did this guy test all these things scientifically? I highly doubt he did, so therefore he can't prove it.

What you don't realize is that this Council was merely restating the facts, and making them official so to speak. Its like me holding a press conference, and me stating that the first president of the United States was George Washington.

This is all just your opinion. In no way is this true. You have no proof, and you never will. Besides, how do you know the original documents from the Council of Nicaea were not altered or changed? Simple, you don't.

Again, I ask you...Did you ever stop and think the reason why it may seem this way is because it was the truth? Many different religions have different versions of God and what exactly he is. They same could be said on just about any other religion. They all "borrow" things from each other. But there is only one religion that is the truth.