"Child - do not eat that chocolate cake. That is for your brother's birthday. Child - if you eat that cake I will give you a short spanking and then send you to your room for the rest of the week."

If my child then eats the cake, what should I do? Let him off? He knew what the punishment would be and still chose to do it. Not going through with the punishment I told them they'd get would simply invite them to do it again.

Like Adam and Eve. God told them what would happen. No excuses.

There is a repeated cycle throughout the early chapters of the OT.

SIN - JUDGEMENT - GRACE

In the case: Sin - eating the fruit. Judgement - labor pains. Grace - promise of saviour of humanity through woman (ie Jesus).

He was merciful. He could have left them without Jesus.

I love it how when topics get so involved and repetitive like this one you can just say something totally random yet satrically meaningful and people wont even notice .

I know Xeno ..

BFG, we're going to have to disagree on the meaning of merci here, I'm afraid. Having nearly lost my life twice and I can assure you it was a peacfull process I would have been most happy to give myself to at the time. And having endured the pain of labour for a full 24 hours, I still believe that if he had of just killed them it would have been more merciful. After all time is irellivant to God he could have redeemed them with the blood of Christ at any stage, yet he didn't, he choose to make innocent woman suffer and suffer and suffer.

He also had to scrap plan A and start a fresh plan B that would send his whole divine plan in a completely different direction. It just does not make sence. Not to me anyway.

Somethings that God does doesn't make alot of sense to me either, however I try and understand them as best as I can.

You seem to be having a problem by confusing what a child knows from what adults understand. Adam and Eve were God's children because they were his creation. But technically they are not children. Adult punishment is different from what punishment is for a child.

What an interesting question... never heard quite put this way before.

When I was researching material for my supernatural thriller "FOREVER: A GODYSSEY ADVENTURE" this was a really rough section of the book to write. I am always amazed by those who ignore Hell, rebuild it into their own wishes and those who can't wait to get there.

Hell in simplest terms is a place where GOD does NOT choose to exist. Heaven is where GOD lives. Now, take this to the next step... HELL is what you have left when you remove everything good, positive, loving, caring...etc that comes from God. Hell is everything miserable, evil, disgusting, destructive and hopeless... it's even dark.

According to the Bible... it's Easy To Go To Hell.

1) Just ignore it's existence... guaranteed entry.
2) Just ignore Christ... definite guarantee of entry.
3) Demand Justice during Judgment Day before God...

According to the Bible... it's just as easy to Go To Heaven.

1) Study the intricasies of nature, science, mathematics and logic to see the "probability" of God existing is great indeed.
2) Accept Christ being God's Son, the God Man who lived, died, resurrected to build a bridge from you to God. The cost? - Free He paid for it with his life...
3) Demand Mercy & Grace during Judgment Day, not justice... and be freed.


I know, I know... fundamental garbage...right? Hey, think what you want... the Bible has earned my respect for surviving thousands of years of abuse, burnings, persecutions...etc. If it could upset so many governments, secular minds and reasonings... that's power worth checking out. And it's respected by many scientists, archaelogists and historians as patently reliable and true.

What other book can be that trusted? - You decide...

Yeah, yeah. I was always positive God understood why people don't believe in him, you know...being an all powerful-being and stuff?

Give a man an extremely old book and expect him to believe it?

I'm sure God knew man wouldn't always accept his word, but rather, question it. So, he deserves to go to hell?

Okay, ignoring it's existence? .....I have met many extremely nice people that do not believe in such a place, so...they deserve to go to hell?

To tell the truth, the Bible says we all deserve to go to Hell. Not just those who do not accept Christ. We all deserve to go there.

THe question you should be asking is "why should I go to heaven"

regards,

Hey, feel free to disagree.

But can you answer one question for me. If you had the choice of either not going through that pain you went through, or not having children, which would you choose?

I'm pretty sure you'd choose the kids. The punishment isn't all bad then, is it?

Until next time,

LOL! It will sure be empty in Heaven.

Yeah, well.. I was pretty sure we would all one day be forgiven and finally meet God.

I must be wrong....wait, why did God make me again?

And if the kid eats the cake,and you punish him, shouldn't the punishment fit the crime? Would you execute the cake eater?
Flog him?
Cut off his thumbs?

No, of course not. But then, after the offender has served his crime, you 'reinstate' him back into you good graces, no?
Apparantly, your biblical concept of god, knows how to hold a grudge.

Depends on what level in Hell you want to be sitting in.. here's a brief overview :

There are variations in the degrees of heat in Hell, and in the levels of punishment which GOD has prepared for its inhabitants; there is not just one level.

As God says: "Verily the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths [grade] of the Fire"(4:145)... The lower the level in Hell has the greater the intensity of heat. The hypocrites will suffer the worst punishment, and so they will be in the lowest level of Hell.

Gates of Hell

God has told us that Hell has seven gates, as said: "And surely, Hell is the promised place for them all. It [Hell] has seven gates, for each of these gates is a [special] class [of sinners] assigned". (15:43-44)

"Woe to every [kind of] scandalmonger and backbiter, who piles up wealth and lays it by. Thinking that his wealth would make him last forever! By no means! He will be sure to be thrown into hell." (104:1-9)

The Following is a more in-depth look at inhabitants of Hell....

Categories of its inhabitants

Disbelievers:
“But those who disbelieve and deny Our signs will be companions of the Fire (of Hell); they will abide therein.”

“Those who have disbelieved and died while they are disbelievers will have the curse of God upon them and the [curse of the] angels and all of mankind. [they will abide] eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will the punishment be postponed.”


Hypocrites:
“Indeed the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire; you will find no helper for them.”


“The hypocrites are afraid that a surah (Chapter) be sent down about them, showing them what is [really] in their hearts. Say, ‘Ridicule you! But verily, God will expose all that you fear.’ If you question them, they declare, ‘We were only talking idly and playing.’ Say, ‘Is it God and His signs and His messengers that you were mocking?’ Make no excuses that you rejected faith after having accepted it. IF We pardon some of you, We will punish others because they were criminals. The hypocrites – men and women are of one another. They enjoin evil and forbid what is just and close their hands [in stinginess]. They have forgotten God, so He has forgotten them. Verily, the hypocrites are rebellious and perverse. God has promised the hypocrites men and women and the rejecters of faith the fire of Hell; they will dwell therein. It is sufficient for them. And God will curse them, and they will have an enduring punishment.”
[9: 64-68]

Polytheists (Those who Associate Something with God):
“Those who reject [truth] among the People of the Book and the polytheists were not going to depart [from their ways] until there comes to them clear evidence – a messenger from God, rehearsing pure scriptures, wherein are upright laws [or decrees]. Nor did those who had been given the scripture make schisms until after there had come to them clear evidence. And they were not commanded except to worship God, sincere in religion to Him, to establish regular prayer, and to pay zakah (charity). And that is the upright religion. Those who reject [truth] among the People of the Book and the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, dwelling therein forever. They are the worst of creatures.”
[98: 1-6]

People of the Book (Who Reject Islam):
“Those reject [truth] among the People of the Book are the polytheists will be in the fire of Hell, dwelling there therein forever. They are the worst of creatures.”
[98: 6]

Arrogant Rejecters of the Truth:
“But those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance – they are the companions of the Fire, dwelling therein forever.”
[7: 36]

Sinners and Criminals:
“Indeed the criminals will be in the punishment of Hell, dwelling therein forever. It will not be lightened for them, and they will be overwhelmed there in despair. And We have not wronged them, but it is they who have wronged [themselves].”
[43: 74-76]

The Unjust:
“Then it will be said to those who were unjust, ‘Taste the eternal punishment. Are you recompensed except for what you used to earn?’”
[10: 52]

Transgressors:
“But when there comes the Greatest Event – the Day when man will remember what he strove for and the Hellfire will be brought forth for [all] to see – then for him who had transgressed and preferred the life of this world, indeed Hellfire will be his shelter.”
[79: 34-39]

Concealers of Gods’s Revelations:
“Those who conceal what We have sent down of proofs and guidance after We have made it clear to the people in the scripture- those are cursed by God and cursed by those who [are entitled to] curse.”
[2: 159]
("those who curse" refers to the angels and believers.)

Tyrants:
“But they asked victory, and disappointment is the lot of every obstinate tyrant. In front of him is Hell, and he is given pus to drink. He will gulp it but will hardly be able to swallow it, and death will come to him from every place, yet he will not die. And in front of him will be a heavy punishment.”
[14: 15-17]

“[It will be said to the two angels], ‘Throw into Hellfire every obstinate rejecter [of Allah] – who prevented good, transgressed, and doubted, who set up another god besides Allah – throw him into the severe punishment.’”
[Qaf, 50: 24-26]

Murderers:
“And whoever kills a believer intentionally – his recompense is Hell to abide therein forever, and the warth and the curse of God is upon him, and He has prepared for him a great punishment.”
[ 4: 93]

Persecutors of Believers:
”Those who presect [or draw into temptations] the believers – men and women – and then do not turn in repentance will have the punishment of Hell, and they will have the punishment of the Burning Fire.”
[85: 10]

Those who Prefer this world and Neglect the Hereafter:
“Whoever wishes for the immediate – We hasten to grant him such things as We will to whom We will. Then We have mark for them hallmark they will burn therein, disgraced and rejected.”
[, 17: 18]

Those who Commit Suicide:
Abu Huraiarh (radiAllahu anhu) that the Messenger of Allah (salAllahu alayhi wasalam) said:
‘He who kills himself with a steel [weapon] will be eternal inhabitant of Hell, and he will have that [weapon] in his hand and will be thrusting it into his stomach forever and ever; he who kills himself by drinking poison will sip in the fire of Hell, forever and forever. He will kills himself by throwing himself from a the top of a mountain and will constantly fall in the fire of Hell forever and ever.”

I hope nobody takes any kind of offence.. These are my religious viewpoints and beliefs, I would be happy to answer questions relating to any of the points made above.. Enjoy...

Anytime someone actually reads the Bible or goes to church, a little bit of faith enters their system. It gets their gears turing if you will.

Normally, a person will ask questions, and others will answer. If he fails to ask questions, and get them answered properly then that faith usually disapates.

Two things.

1. The punishment was already stated. God said they would die if they ate the fruit. They chose to eat it anyway. It's not like God said "I'll punish you" but didn't state exactly how and thus the punishment being way greater than Adam or Eve suspected. THey knew what they were getting themselves into.

2. What punishment would fit the crime? God abhors sin. The punishment for sin is death. It doesn't matter if that sin is murder, theft, rape, lying, disobeying your parents, lusting after someone, or eating from a tree you were told not to eat. They all lead to the same outcome. It has nothing to do with holding a grudge.

This was why Jesus was needed, because alone, humanity was hopelessly lost.

'obey or die'. Yep. A loving merciful god. No thanks, you can keep him.

Told to someone that had no concept of good or evil.

Conditions necessary to go to hell:

Don't believe that Jesus is the son of God, and that He is Lord.
Don't repent of sin. Don't try to not do anything the New Testament calls a sin.


Believe in Jesus and repent of sin, are the two conditions to go to heaven.
If you have the capacity, to know right from wrong, and you don't do either one or both of those conditions, then you will go to hell. Most of the world is going to hell.

Matt.7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Then I am CLUELESS as to what the Bible meant by Savior of the World.

Hi

All religions basically teach the same idea.........be righteous and you get to heaven..........be wicked and you get to hell..........with some sort of large grey area between perfection and wickedness.

Different religions have different levels of revealtion about who God is and what he is like.

Islam seems to have more revealation about the character of God than Bhuddism, Judaism seems to have more revealations about the character God than Islam and Christianity is a step up from Judaism.

Christianity teaches that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whsoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16: this is the ultimate religous revealtion. God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world but that the world might have the opportunity to be saved through this Son i.e achieve this righteousness through Jesus without having to be a perfect person

Hi there

Im interested in what you posted

Can you tell who get to heaven

Thanks

Lismore

I'ts magic.

*Pulls a rabbit out of a hat*

You have the general idea.

OOhh thanks! I was getting hungry!

Will that be one rabbit or three?

5... us werecougars need out protien!

Went from SilverCougar to werecougar at the drop of a tail?

I've been away for a while, been sick, so I haven't read it all, but, Kismet has a point. The punishment on women was harsh compared to men.

But....somewhere along the line, someone came up with an alternative to this problem/punishment, Ceasarian sections. It's been around for thousands of years (Ceasar's time, possibly even before it), so, while some people are saying that they sinned and never got redemption, God obviously allowed someone (or, maybe it goes back to Enoch, who knows) to come up with a way to get out of that. I hope (religion aside) that more people recognize this option and it gets used more. I was born C section and so was all of my family bar my father, and there's no side effects to it like some people make them out to be. It's like any other operation.


Amalgamut,

I've read a few of your posts here. Alot of what you've said I agree with (aliens in Enoch, etc) but technically, God, DID (and these words are used) created Adam and Eve to be a second angel to live in immortality. That immortality wasn't meant for earth though, I'll agree on that, but what they got from the tree, like I said before, was death, and mortality, when 'death would never have touched them' prior to that. So after being created a second angel, after being tested, (God tests His own angels, etc) they ate the fruit which gave mortality, hence becoming human. By other accounts, Adam and Eve, like other angels, were of extreme proportions, miles high, etc. After mortality, they became what humans are today. The art of war and weapons came from a fallen angel in Enoch, among other things. The big bang, is more accurately described in Enoch, at the creation of the pre-Earth universe. Evolution however, isn't in there anywhere, and I obviously don't accept it - not specifically because of religion, but for many, varied reasons, one major one being scattered and elusive evidence, and a story a little too unbelieveable with exaggerated and ultimately impossible to test time spans and ideas which have no real proof. People say that about religion, I realize, but Evolution is more shoved down people's throast than religion could ever be. It's stated as fact, when it is and no doubt always will be, a theory, an unproven theory at that.

Now while the human/angel Nephillim are no doubt aliens, the Nephilim/animal hybridization were the actual giants - created by 200 of every species on Earth, reaching heights of 45ft, eating humans, mammals, reptiles and birds, and turning the Earth into a general bloodbath. These, sound very much like dinosaurs.

Sorry to hear. I hope you are feeling better. If I remember right you said that you smoked....That is bad for you!

Yes cigarettes are very bad for you, and you shouldn't smoke them.


Now, where's my cigar.......

edit//my bad, i read the wrong scripture.

^^^^thats talking about being a "living sacrifice for God."

ah, the perils of vague writing! he thinks this, she thinks that,..... can you all be right? can you all be wrong?

once upon a time there were three little pigs.....

i think this story was telling us to be wary of blow-hards!

I think you can see what is being talked about. Need to learn the Bible more?

I read the wrong scripture. (not sure how)

Romans 12:1 is talking about being a living sacrifice for God. Meaning, that Christians live their lives enduring pain and criticism from others. We lose certain pleasures while not endulging in sin.

Well, im still trying to figure out why you related this scripture to my comment anway.

How dare you yell at Ash for smoking you do it to .

smokes Newport*

I forgive you!
From this comment:Are you or are you not a Christian?

maybe he's an intern.





Editted for typo.

First off, I was being sarcastic.

Yes, I am a Christian.

I don't think smoking means you can't be a Christian.

[quote=Amalgamut,May 24 2005, 09:47 AM]
[quote=zandore,May 24 2005, 11:34 AM]
Now, where's my cigar.......[/quote]Are you or are you not a Christian?
[right][snapback]637847[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]
First off, I was being sarcastic.

Yes, I am a Christian.

I don't think smoking means you can't be a Christian.
[right][snapback]637896[/snapback][/right]
[/quote]


but like so much else in religion/beliefs: you think but you don't know for certian.

now wouldn't it be funny if mr sick-sense-of-humor (the biblegod) gave man the weeds to temp him.....

Yeah, kinda like the whole theory of evolution and the BB.

You think, but you don't know.

Chill man I was just joking. Sorry I did not mean offend.

Sorry, I ran out of "chill pills."

evo and bb are tools. they work so long as the data supports them.

religion is a mindset. i works so long as you accept nothing else.

Which must be better than "knowing", but not "thinking".

Please note that the above comment is NOT directed at anyone. If you feel that this statement applies to you, then the fault lies with your perception, not mine.