Really, I would like to know what religions are accepted in public schools, can you point me to a story that allowed it.

simple, look at any public school history book(youll be better off with prentice hall though). they taught me: the basics of shinto and it's origins, basics of zen and it's origins, islam and it's origins, even the gods of the greeks, romans, aztecs, mayans, etc. but nothing about the Christian basics and the Christian origins.

first off, i believe the story youre talking about is when God killed the israelites for betraying Him. God tried His best to keep bad influences from His chosen people, but they still did idoltary worship, adultery, etc. so, God had no choice but to eliminate them. BUT, READ THE WHOLE STORY! it says to spare those who were praying to God in the temple.

here's an example for you: you are the parent of a child, "bob". bob is playing one day and finds a friend, "billy". billy seems ok to you at first.(this is when God created those other tribes; He thought they seemed ok at first.). then, billy starts to teach your kid bad things, such as smoking, drinking, how to have sex, etc(like the tribes were influencing the Israelites with bad things like idoltary worship, adultery, etc.). so what do you do to billy? you take action and tell billy's parents that billy's teaching bob bad things, and tell bob not to play with billy anymore(this is like God killing the other tribes- He had no other choice, they wouldn't listen to His words or anything, so He had to kill them.). just as you had no other choice but to tell billy's parents about him, God had no other choice but to kill those tribes. it seems harsh, but if God didn't do this, His chosen(and i emphasize on the word CHOSEN for those who ignore it*cough* wolftrax) people would become corrupt, which eventually they do, and God ends up killing those who were; of course there were still some non corrupt ones though, and God didn't kill them.

No, I don't ignore it and I don't ignore God either. You read a book and swallow it hook line and sinker without asking God what is or is not true. God don't play favorites.

Wow don't you think your a bit cynical, I thought you meant that other professor where bringing in bible of other religions and forcing students to pray. But I get what you are saying, they really don't talk about christianity that much in history class well except for their role in european history, but the origins are never talked about, maybe they don't want to educate us because maybe most would think its another fable like the other religions.

edit fixed spelling and grammar

I didn't have any "spiritual experience" if that's what you mean. But God did give me the answers that i was searching for. This is what I posted earlier, I thought I'd repeat it.




In addition to this, in keeping with Jesus' teaching in Matthew 5:27-28, I am hereby extending this to also include looking at pornography, and even lusting after people.

Hope this information helps

God has favorites. why did God save Noah and his family over the rest of the world? because God favored them over the corrupt world. why did God save the Israelites from slavery and give them a promised land? because He favored them. of course, later they betrayed Him and got sent into exile, but that's a different story:).

but, i think our definitions for favorites are a little different

An even bigger example. Why did God choose Jacob over Esau? Or David over Saul? There was nothing special about these people except that it appears God loved one and hated the other.

Well, God may have favorites, but He warns against it. Satan (or Satanail) WAS God's fabourite angel....in the beginning. He made him higher than any other angel, and gave him the most powers. He also made him the accusing/testing angel of his own kind - angels. This stopped when that 'war in Heaven' occured, around the time that the angels of Enoch got punished. It was quite messy really. Satan fell because of humans, certain 'Watcher' angels were in constant contact with humans, and were originally sent to teach them this and that, and to watvch them night and day. One of the angels cast out with satan originally (satan refused to bow down to Adam, and certain angels under him also refused and thus were all cast out. That and after this, having said he was created first, wanted to raise his throne higher than was allowable, and was told to piss off), and for whatever reason, found human women attractive. So, one of these orignally fallen angels of the rebellion tempted these angels to take an oath and fall to marry these human women. They got the oath from Michael, based on the foundation of Creation ('and by this oath'....etc) and with that they fell, and along with it, got the name of the future Messiah (Jesus), of which, at the time, they were overjoyed about. When this all ended, and these were completely cast out and punished, they were accused by satan, just as humans were. Michael for whatever reason (he said 'who could not feel sorry for these angels) decided this had to stop. So, he kicked satan out of the position he had - that being to tempt/test/accuse his own kind AND humans - and had him be the SOLE accuser of mankind, thus it says 'woe to the Earth for the dragon has been sent unto you', and this dragon had 'accused OUR bretherin night and day before God', angel's bretherin is ANGELS.

Now, as for Noah, the reason he and his family were saved wasn't just because of the way he was born (he had an odd appearance, glowing eyes, and started talking to God...) or just because he was favoured, He was one of the ONLY ones to NOT have a mixed gene pool with these fallen angels, and the next generation, Nephilim. Also, he was Enoch's great-grandson, and God HAD favored Enoch`and made him a high ranking angel.

It's getting deep now. I suppose you never heard of the holocaust where over 6 million of "God's chosen" were slaughtered.

If Noah and his family were "Chosen" and the only survivors of the flood then all his descendants would be chosen as well, in other words everybody would. I really don't buy into the whole "Noah's family were the only survivors of the flood" story anyways, it doesn't explain how the Native Americans came to be. Of course that lead to several offshoots of Christianity being formed in the last 175 years.

Speaking of those offshoots, I have been hearing a lot about people being arrested for polygamy in these parts, their basis is their Christian religion and that many people in the Bible were polygamous. So you guys agree with that? Is it ok to have concubines as well?

The Native Americans were almost wiped out, it's well recorded that people claiming to worship God and even church leaders were slaughtering them in the name of God. Men, women, and children. Genocide.

BFG, you said you prayed to God for an answer on homosexuality, but you didn't have a spiritual experience. So you didn't really get an answer did you? Maybe you need to try harder, or open your heart and listen better. So far nobody has given any testimony to actually doing that.

you need to view these things at Noah's perspective wolftrax! a world wide flood to them could just be their area/ continent flooded up. also, the holocaust was NEVER God's choice. it was hitler's choice. it says in the Bible that only good things come out of God, and God can use satan to do His will. maybe God used satan to test the world with hitler and the holocaust? we may never know; God works in mysterious ways



tell me now, with your newfound knowledge, is that God killing the native americans(NAs)?



why should BFG have to tell you what his talks with God is like? they are HIS, after all

Despite your condescending attitude, I knew that God didn't kill those people, people did, just as it's my point God didn't write the Bible, people did.

BGF already told me his answer:




And so far still nobody has given an answer they personally recieved from God.

wolftrax:

would you accept someone's claim that they talked to a "god"?

or would you explain it as a conversation with one's "inner voice"?

the trick is that to me, the "inner voice" is this "god" people claim to talk to.

the problem is that people go about talking to this "god" without ever really connecting to anything.

if people want to connect to the universe, they need to move beyond these faulty 'god' contructs. the absurdity of calling an incomplete being complete.

that's why it's called personal! if someone did say something, no one would believe them. so why post it if youll just get someone saying "eh youre just being schizophrenic"

If you want some Scripture, right here(note: too long to quote):
Genesis 19- The story of Sodom and Gomorrah. these were two towns that were homosexual, and God wanted destroyed. the angel Abraham bartered with God that if he could find 10 righteous people can be found in Sodom. so, God, Abraham, and the angel Sarah went to Sodom to see how the city was. of course, it was corrupt. God was very displeased. so the village sent a mob to "know" the angels(if you read your Bible, you'll know that know usually means to have sex.) in this case, this mob wanted to have an anal orgy with the angels. God was very ticked, and destroyed the village, except for the chief, Lot, and his wife.

Romans 1:26-27:
"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions: for their women exchanged the natural use for that which is against nature. And in the same way also the men abandoned the natural use of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error."

Leviticus 18:22:
"You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."

I Corinthians 6:9:
"The unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God. So do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the realm of God."

I Timothy 1:9-10:
"Law is not made for a righteous person but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and fornicators and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound (healthy) teaching."

is that enough messages from God? see, God doesn't have to send us personal messages for things that are in His book, the Bible. He sends us things are a little more complicated, such as this: the other night, i wanted to try out psi balls. i was a bit shakey at first, but i prayed to God about it. He didn't say anything, but rather i took my hand, closed the window that teaches psi- balls, and said to myself- no, i will not do this. it was weird, but i feel that was a message to God. also, God has a little voice in my head that reminds me to pray, read my Bible, etc. those are my personal messages from God.

wolftrax, do you have a religion? i wont bash you if you are or arent. just curious

Yeah it's personal! So is homosexuality! So is telling somebody they are going to hell for something that very well might be natural to them! It's about time somebody turned the tables on you people and poked their noses into your own personal beliefs and judged you so you know how it feels!

You call yourselves Christians, but did you follow Jesus's example? Did you bother to ask Cephei if she even liked boys? Did you bother to ask her if she always felt this way about girls? How about anything that may have happened to her as a child that may cause her to feel this way now? Did you stop to consider that she is young, probably a teenager, confused by what she is feeling, scared because her community and parents are against her and how she feels, and you are pouring more salt in her wounds by telling her she is going to hell? What possible refuge or support does she have now? What if she is suffering from depression from all this, and you've just given her the last straw to send her over the edge? She's still a kid, for Goodness sake. She deserves better.

Once again you quote from the Bible. That's a cop out. It's much harder and more difficult to pray for an extended period of time, for as long as it takes to receive an answer from God than it is to open a book and start quoting. If you haven't asked God, and received an answer from God, you don't really know the answer. That's the problem, too many people are quoting from a book instead of actually praying for an answer, and it's my belief that was the way back in the Bible. You've got Jesus coming, going aganst many of the ways of the Hebrews, teaching to forgive, teaching tolerance, teaching to heal instead of throw stones. And the zealots that held onto those old beliefs and books, his own people, turned on him because he taught something new. He taught people to pray again, to seek the answer themselves. Then after they killed him for it, you got the zealots again becoming part of the new religion, trying to console the parts of the old stuff with the new, bringing back that same old unforgiving way.

No, I don't need passages from a book, neither does Cephei. The book changed anyways over time, surely you have had to pay attention to this. From the unforgiving society that Moses set up to the forgiving and understanding ways of Jesus. Let those that are without sin throw the first stone. None of you are without sin. You have no right to judge this girl or to tell her she will go to hell. That is between her and God.

Hey Wolftrax,

This has been posted in the Spirituality, Religion and Belief's section for a reason. Cephei wanted people's opinions on the situation, whether they were from the Bible or not, or whether they agreed with her view or not. If this was meant to be debated and argued, it would have been in the Spirituality vs. Skepticism section. This is supposed to be a common sharing of ideas and belief's, without rubbishing people's ideas or trying to push forward your own over any other person.

Please stick to the rules of the Forum and keep the posts civil.

Thank you,

EDIT - removed redundant quote

As if telling a young person they are going to hell or God doesn't love them for who or what they are but what they pretend to be is civil. Yeah, NOW you guys are sensitive.

*sigh* are you still on about this?

Below is a copy of every post I have written in regard to this topic. I do not believe i have condemned anyone or claimed they will go to Hell. If i have could you point it out to me please, and I will attempt to be less judgmental in the future. Thanks,













NB- the last few posts have been in direct response to your antagonistic responses.

If I recall its not homosexuals that are mentioned in Bible but tis the acts that occur during a homosexuao relationship such as sodomony that are refered to as sins! Therefore I presume references are not towards homosexuals as sinners but the acts of homosexual love as sins does that make sense?!

Answer: This Part:

Romans 3:22-24 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

All sins are equal in God's eyes and are forgivable through the sacrifice of his only Son Jesus. Kind of like lying, stealing, etc.

Yes, exactly....

This is why I feel it's entirely wrong (and sorry, I do NOT agree at ALL withy this current Pope's views and restrictions) to tell someone - ANYONE - that because they have committed such and such a sin (half of which are man made and man's preception of at the time) that they are extradicted from a church. Who is ANYONE tell tell someone else that they CAN'T believe in God?

It would shock some people to know that even FALLEN ANGELS get redemption. The angels of Enoch only fell for 9 DAYS (9000 years) and as the prophecy goes, they will, after that time (3 of them) 'heal the world they plagued and give life back to her (the Earth)'. No doubt that will be done through reincarnation.

Everyone has a chance of redemption, and it was for this very reason God did say 'man was NOT made for judgement'. Especially when it comes to God's own decisions.

Don't worry everyone, gay or straight, we are all going to be in heaven together. Why? Because God created us as we are so how can God condems us for our failures or so called sins?

God created gay people so that it must be ok to be gay. I am not gay but I know that they are just as important to God as any other person; they just have a uncommon, by the ratio of gays to hetero's, sexual preference. Big deal!

Please put that book of nonsense down!

Where I dent believe this statement I certainly agree we will all meet in Heaven

You don't agree? Why? You do realize gay relationships have ben around since the beginning of time, as has smoking, tobacco or marijuana, etc. The Egyptians had both gay and lesbians in their population.

Some of my best friends have been gay/lesbian, some broke away from God because of people like you condemning them. God created everyone, deal with it.

Of course God loves all of us. But we're kidding ourselves if we say God won't punish us for going against Him - any loving parent must do as much.

And I'm not just talking about the act of homosexuality. This is just another way that we can go against God. God doesn't hate us. He hates the acts we commit against His good and perfect will. He hates it when people (hetero's included) have sex outside God's prescribed paramaters of marriage. He hates it when we look at women lustfully even, ie pornography (cf. Matthew 5:27-30).

All the best,

IMO, God didn't create gay people, but rather humans wanted to live an alternate life style and voila! Homosexuals! It's like how the saying goes, God didn't create orange juice, He created Oranges.

And the whole condemning thing, yes you should condemn sinners, but not by directly saying "GOD HATES YOU GAYS AND YOURE ALL GOING TO HELL NO MATTER WHAT!!!" Rather, if someone's sinning, tell them it's a sin and point them in the right direction. Show them the Bible. Read them some passages about Jesus and what He can do in your life. That is my opinion

But that's the thing, people who are gay don't choose to be gay. For example, I am heterosexual, I know this because another man does not do anything for me, and the thought of me kissing one makes me feel sick. I couldn't have sex with another man because I couldn't get aroused, and if that can't happen then nothings going in anywhere, pooper or not.

People who are gay often say they knew their whole life. People who've known them their whole life aren't too surprised to find out they are gay, as there are signs even from a very young age. I've known my whole life I was attracted to girls, even though they may have been mean and thought I had cooties.

So to gay people it is as natural as breathing, God made them that way. It's not unusual, God also makes hermaphrodites, half man and half woman. Why is anybody's guess.

I see where you're getting at wolftrax. I don't believe that people are born gay, but it comes with years and years of dramatic events in their lives, such as abusive dads, mums, parents getting divorced, gay parents, getting molested, etc. It's believed that when a person is abused by someone, they'll go back to that abusive person. So, maybe "Johnny" was abused/molested by his dad for his whole life, and his dad dies, so for comfort, he finds another guy to go to. I'm not saying that all gays were abused/molested, but perhaps it's how some of them came to be like that.

And in the end, what difference does it make?

If Bob and Bruce are happily together, doing what they feel in their own home, how does it harm you?

If Sheila and Sally enjoy each other in the privacy of their home, how does it affect you?

If John and Jane, like to use whips and chains on each other, in their bedroom ( or kitchen), what impact does it have on your life?

Sometimes, I think that the only reason people are so judgemental of others behavior is due to envy and jealousy.

As long as no one is forced to submit to a lifestyle against their will, and all parties involved are consenting adults, then everyone else should just mind their own damn business. We would all be better off that way, no?

Accually in OR they've been doing research about this.. it seems that you are born homosexual... so far they've worked from mice up to rams... *has to look where she posted that article here* Seems that there are male rams who only wish the company and sexual promuscuity (haaa spelling) with other rams... and ignoring the females completely.

Now you cannot say they went through years of traumatice experiances to be gay when they were kept in a pasture and raised like normal sheep and rams...

It's a biological thing...

It has been theorized that the lack of male role models in the developmental stages of a child's life is a possible cause of homosexuality among boys. This is prevalent in single-parent households (9 times out of 10 the child goes with the mother), but is also compounded by (at least in Australia) by the lack of male teachers - there's just too much societal issues with men who want to teach children (call it discrimination if you will).

Whether this is the case because the child has only known things from a woman's perspective and thus has the same tastes in men, or whether subconciously the boy/man looks for his own father figure in the shape of a lover is uncertain.

As I said, this is just a theory....

All the best,

It has been theorized that ones first sexual encounter will form a blue print psychologically that will determine one sexual preferences. This could explain pedophiles and sadomasochism. Perhaps from abuse at an early age.
I think I will take my leave now before I am drawn and quartered.
Irish

So Irish, you suscribe to the old theory that 60% of homosexuals are born that way, and the other 40% are drawn into it?

Probably more 40 60.
I am unsure if I believe the theory but it seems to make the most sense.