Phew...I don't really remember but it was something that she actually was in town that day...or something

She was "in Los Angeles at the time."

You guys have to remember that Charles Cross wrote the book with help from Courtney Love.......so, its probably biased towards Courtney being innocent and making it look like suicide. But, regardless, its a great book...I have it.

I hate Courtney, so I can hapily say I hope she did it. Hahaha.

lol, thats always a great reason to think she is guilty



WOOT WOOT!! 2000 posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mt. Dumbass!!

HAHAHA!!!!! I didnt notice that! Thats so gonna be my new phrase.

Congrats on 2000 posts!!

Thanks very much!

is'nt there a documentary out called"Kirk and Courtney"that has all of this spelled out in it?

Do you mean Kurt and Courtney? Because there is a documentary called that. It's pretty interesting. Talks with Courtney's dad who thinks she even had something to do with his death and an ex-boyfriend of hers who thinks if it wasnt for Courtney he could have made something with his life. Also shows an interview with Eldon Hoke before he was found dead.

that must be it.you can't find it anywhere on dvd or vhs!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...010347?v=glance

i watched kurt and courtney again,but it is a long shot that he did kill himself,imo!
courtney had the motive,but there are 2 many unanswered questions abot)-the heroin shot,how long would it have taken it to knock him out?the pi in the flick said 30 seconds,like he really knows.it's really odd they found the gun laying on cobain's chest,and it's really strange that el duce was killed before he could talk to
the bbc guy again.if love did kill him,why did she save his life when he oded in italy?many questions,no theorectical answers.

The thing with the Rome incident is that I dont believe Kurt had entended to OD. The drug, as I stated before was the "date rape drug", so it disolves in liquid. Kurt was drinking champange that night. I think Courtney slipped the drug into what he was drinking as an attempt to kill him. The PI probably would have a knowledge of drugs and how they affect ones system so his estimate could be correct, openmind.

yeah,but he had taken 30 of them,and he was'nt dumb enough to think he could have survived after taking 30 powerful sedatives i hope!either way she had to know he was seriously mentally ill,so she really does bear some responsibilty in
his death.

You missed something in my post, openmind. I said that I dont think Kurt knew he was taking the sedatives. I think Courtney slipped them in without his knowledge since you cant taste or smell the drug. So she slipped it in the drinks and Kurt just happened to drink enough to where the drugs would kick in and be at OD level. Where do you even get the idea that Kurt was mentaly ill? Courtney made a bunch of lies up about him after his death if that where you got it from.

he must have really had a huge heroin addiction,i know he took it because it helped him deal with stomach pain.i'm wondering why he never went to a doctor to
have his stomach problem looked at?at the very least the drs could have given him something legally to take.do you know if his autopsy turned up any ulcers or stomach tumors?

I'm not sure if any stomach tumors or ulcers turned up. I do know that right before he died he found a doctor who had medicine that did make the pain in his stomach go away and he planed to go into rehab to get off of the herion so he could take the legal drugs to stop the pain. He had so many things he wanted to do...I dont see why he would kill himself.

i can tell you from almost having offed myself before that a lot of times you suffer through a lot more pain on the mental,rather than physical side.i had everything to live for then,but still i almost killed my self.sometimes your mind takes you places that scare the hell out of you,maybe that is what happened to him.

i heard the way the bullet went thru him, how it was set up.. someone killed him!!

The whole position of the gun and where the shotgun shell landed is to me more evidence of murder. I dont see how he could have shot himself at the angle the gun was found at and without there being finger prints on it and the gun was in such a position that the shell would have landed opposite of where it was found.

Something else I would like to add to this topic...Courtney told the electrician that found the body specifically to check in the room where Kurt's body was found...to me that's a bit fishy. Any thoughts?

There were finger-prints found on the gun. They were just smudged. However, given the force of pulling a trigger, the time the body was left to sit, or gun oil getting his hands, any number of things can account for it. This isn’t uncommon at all.



It was their house and it was the green house area; it makes sense to tell an electrician to check there.



Placing a gun inside your mouth and up against the back of the roof of it does not result in the splatter-fest that would were you to hold it to the side of your head and pull the trigger. This is well known.



Nevermind the unreliability of these tests (also depending on who conducts them), but all they'll show is if you believe it. El Duce was in such drunken state of mind that he could easily have convinced himself.



This is purely speculative and unfounded.



This is a complete falsehood. Dr. Osvaldo Galletta treated Kurt after the incident in Rome. He denied Rohypnol was removed from Kurt’s system. Then again, supposing she did give them to Kurt, she bragged about owning them just recently. Had she planned on slipping them to him later, why would she have done that? Not very smart for somebody who could, a month later, supposedly pull off such a stunt.



Of course he would say that.



One thing we need to remember is that Washington State Law forbids disclosing information on a post-mortem without word from Courtney or Kurt‘s family. That would include the toxicology report. The newspaper that printed the toxicology information should be suspect. However, 1), even if we assume there is as much of whatever in Cobain’s body, we don’t know when it was put in there (as in, it could be from a certain time earlier and had worn off by the time of death) and 2), there is debate about how much a person can take before it is lethal. Cobain was known to have a high tolerance.

Besides, if they really wanted to make it look like a suicide and wanted to leave no reason for doubt, then why didn’t they just kill him with the drugs?



I’d like to know what other “good-bye” note his was used to measure against (plus nobody used a comparative sample and determined who would have done it), but as far as suicide notes there is no standard, there is no hallmark, there is no formula. Try reading Myths About Suicide Notes. How many celebrity suicide notes have had them say, “well, I’m going to kill myself now”?



A selective amount of “experts” have said it doesn’t appear to be Cobain’s writing. Just as many, perhaps more, have said it was inconclusive and the official Forensic Document Examiner concluded it was written by Kurt Cobain. As have several others, more than not. If there did appear to be any difference in the writing then emotional states and intoxicating substances setting in can account for it. Or, even if somebody did add the last lines, it doesn’t mean he was murdered … it means somebody added more lines.

IMO, I think he just killed himself, this is almost like the whole ‘Tupac is alive’ thing. Although the topic brings up some highly evident points.

Murder or suicide.

This is an interesting story on the death of Kurt Cobain, Lead man of Nirvana

The conspiracy of Kurt Cobain's pretty interesting. To hear some others ideas, you may want to check out this thread. Also, justiceforkurt.com is pretty informational.

Happy 40th birthday Kurt.

Suicide...

I mean lets face it the guy was a junkie his wife was a junkie (still is). He said several times how depressed he was being rich and famous etc. The guy simply could not handle the stardom he had and killed himself. It's happened before and it will happen again.

"With a level of 1.52 milliliters per liter of morphine as found in Kurt's blood level, for the great percentage of people, including addicts, it would induce a state of unconsciousness quite quickly, in seconds, not even minutes. It would be virtually impossible for him to have shot himself with that high a level of morphine." - Dr. Cyril H. Wecht


This is a mystery. I studied this case a little while back and haven't come to any conclusion that sits well with me.


it's nice to do research before you claim suicide because he was a junkie.

Sorry, double post

Except, Cyril Wecht isn't exactly respected in his own field... I probably wouldn't believe much of anything that guy says. (see his recent involvement with Anna Nicole Smith's son) I'm wary of anyone who follows celebs around after they've died claiming murder, meyham and conspiracy... it seems to be Wechts favorite pasttime.

Unfortunately, Dr. Wecht is highly respected in his own field, despite his various problems.
He is absolutely correct about the level of "heroin" found in this guy's blood....however, he was not involved with the case, and doesn't know when he absorbed the morphine, or any other particulars, such as his personal tolerance to a drug he had been addicted to for years. It could well be that he took his life before the effects of the heroin were being felt, or he copuld tolerate very high levels without common effects, etc...


Here we see people trying to pin some sort of conspiratorial lunacy on the apparent suicide of some rock guy who had a career that lasted a few short years, a guy who was always troubled from childhood, a drug addict, just a troubled guy.


The only thing that's missing in any discussion of a murder in the matter of Cobain is a motive.

Why would anyone have a motive to kill this really rather pitiful guy. He did nothing to anyone but himself, for his whole life. He posed no threat to anyone, save himself.

The entire idea is sily.

The part of me that goes to live shows and loves certain bands and worked for indie radio stations and little record companies and knows how music affects people understands how such a conspiracy might be useful.

The rest of me tends to look askance, though. I can't see Cobain leading a revolution.

--Jaylemurph

Listen the guy is a classic case of suicide, he fits the bill perfectly.

The guy didn't like his life he stated on numerous occasions to people and the press how depressed he had become and how he didn't like having the fame he did. Not all people can handle going from nothing to having everything, to be honest the idea even freaks me out a little bit. Most of these rockers who turn to excessive partying and hard drugs like heroin and cocaine ussualy do so because they are depressed. 90% of the time this results in suicides or overdosing unintentionally.



It's entirely possible especially if you tie off before shooting, also morphine can be taken in pill form as well. swallowing a big bottle of morphine pills could easily contribute to his death. No pills would be found in the stomach as they would need to digest before they had any effect at all. the above ammount is only 1 and 1/2 1000th of a litre. There is also about 5 litres of blood per adult on average and only makes up about 7% of our total weight. 1ml = 1cc (cubic centimeter) on this note there would be 7.6 ml of morphine in his total blood stream and you can by a syringes this size and much larger.

Basically what I am saying is that you can infact take a massive dose of morphine, despite Dr. Wecht says and no disrespect to him he is wrong.

All I'm Sayin' is if you take that much heroin than you can't move. If you can't defend yourself a murder would be easy.

I'm suspicious of this one but rusty on the details as I haven't researched the subject in a couple of years. I plan on checking out the link when I have more time.



I'd suspect his wife. PsYcHoooo crazy! Cash dollar$. She behaved rather strangely shortly before his body was found IIRC. Err, I should say stranger than normal. I will try to refresh my memory later, sorry to be so vague.

We have an autographed Bleach album, certified, mint. Keeping it forever!

Kurt had a pre nup and was going to leave Courtney meant she wouldn't see a dime. Because he had no Will it is believed Courtney had him murdered so his entire fortune would go to her. People that knew information about this murder are now dead.

HE ALIVE
I MET HIM IN A OLD FOLKS HOME NOT GOING SAY WHERE
BUTHE SAID HE LIKES OLD PEOPLE @ HE WAS THERE ALONE
NO BODYGUARDS OR FRIENDS JUST HIM
THEN A OLD LADY RECOGNIZED HIM
TOLD HIM SING TO [YOU KNOW YOUR RIGHT NIRVANA ]
SO HE DID THEN WHEN THE SONG ENDED
HE SAID YOUR BEST BLEEP CROWD EVER
AFTER THAT TALKED WITH ELDERS
THEN JUST LEFT

The only thing I find interesting is that that "El Duce" guy claimed Courtney Love offered him something like $50,000 (may have been $500,000) to kill Kurt Cobain. Apparently, he took a lie detector test about that claim, and passed with something like a 99.7% accuracey rate (not sure that's worded correctly). He died sometime afterwards when he was hit by a train.

Do I think Cobain was murdered? No. I just wonder why this "El Duce" guy would make such a claim and even passed a lie detector test. Only problem is, it's possible to trick those tests, they aren't 100% accurate, so it doesn't really mean much of anything.

It's not hard to envision Cobain getting to a point where he wanted to commit suicide and actually went through with it. I'd also like to think if there was any reason to question it, the police department would have done a proper investigation. It's not like they have any reason to want to protect Courtney Love.

i think kurt cobain did commit suicide as he was a worthless

junkie who couldnt handle the fame so he decided to take

the easy way out & blow his brains out

I'd think the easy way out was to give the money away, get a job as a grocery store cashier, and fade away into obscurity. Less painful, anyway.

You're all heart, you, Limerickboi.


--Jaylemurph

I would love for you to provide a source showing where most suicides they fail to get a good print off the gun, since it is not "uncommon at all" He was shot by someone else and the gun was wiped of the prints. And that is not "uncommon at all" in murders.

I would bet my life savings that Kurt and Courtney had never had an electrician in that green house before. Its sounds pretty convenient that all of the sudden Courtney needs some electrical work done and "please make sure you check out the Green House". Courtney needed a way for the body to be found with her looking like she would not have had any connection, so call an electrician.


Yeah and I know that when I am Drunk I convince myself of lots of crazy stuff, like bribery for murder. If this guy was just some drunk who "convinced himself of being bribed for the murder of Kurt Cobaine" then why was he killed so quickly after he started talking about it? Let me guess he was probably drunk again and figured the train track was his bed?

The drugs in his system have been documented and your deciding to go by speculation. He had three times the lethal dose in his system period. Even if he had a high tolerance this as enough to kill him. Hard drugs are not lot mild ones they will kill much faster and without warning. He did not have 3 times the amount an average junkie shoots in his arm, he has 3 times the LETHAL dose. Show me someone who has 3 times the lethal dose of any drug in there system functioning normally.

My opinion on why they did not just kill him with the heroin is that they gave him the injection and he probably collapsed, but still had a pulse. So what would be your next step? Ok if he wakes up we are screwed, so lets make it look like he injected himself then blew his head off. Bottom line is he could not have taken such a big injection especially after getting out of rehab and having his body cleansed. If he did inject himself do you really think he would have put the suringe and the heroin back in its nifty little case then grabbed the shotgun and blown his head off. Not possible.

Your "selected amount of experts" have compared the writing of Kurt Cobaine, the male nanny, and Courtney love and they have matched the writing of the last two lines to the writing of Courtney and the nanny. Please site your source where all the other experts have said its Kurts handwriting, because unless your going to start a website you won't find it. Wikipedia states that dateline NBC sent the suicide note to 4 handwriting experts and 1 out of the 4 said it was Kurts handwriting.

Its so obvious how they did it with all the evidence that the Private Investigator Tom Grant has pieced together I have no idea why anyone questions the murder. Cobaincase.com has all the info....

Would you like a motive MID? How about Kurt's out of rehab his head is clear he wants to get the hell away from that crazy c-hunt Courtney by devorcing her. She would lose millions of dollars and possibly custody of their daughter. Tom Grants states on his website that Courtney love was having an affair with Billy Corgan from smashing pumpkins and Kurt knew about it. He proves she had an affair she doesn't get any money. All on Justiceforkurt.com I guess the idea idea is not all that silly?

kurt cobain is a hero

there are a lot of people who are not fans of nirvana or kurt cobain and they are usually the ones who dismiss him as a junkie or the band as being overrated. neither of those opinions have anything to do with the possibility of homicide. its a definite possibility. All of the evidence gathered by Grant raises enough questions to reopen the case for a proper investigation. many comments on this thread come from lack of research or lack of care.

The Seattle Police Department is reluctant to reopen the case for many obvious reasons. Most importantly they do not want to admit they rushed to judgement, which they did. Also, there have been over 60 copycat suicides...which they will most likely be held accountable for and sued for!

Also, the coroner Nicholas Hawthorne who performed the autopsy on Cobain had a major conflict of interest...he was personal friends with Courtney Love for years. He is unfortunately, just like any other integral part of this case, deceased. I say this because many of the key witnesses are now dead and much of the key evidence has been destroyed. The greenhouse has been demolished. Cobains body was immediately cremated. The alleged suicide note was returned to Courtney Love.

There is a very obvious motive for Love here...money! She was cheating on Cobain and they were getting a divorce. They had a prenup so she wouldn't have gotten anything. Cobain called their attorney, Rosemary Carroll, and told her he wanted Love taken out of his will.

Heavier Than Heaven is a biased book. It should not be used as a reference here. If youre going to comment on this case then do some research first.

Also, the pose of Kurt Cobain putting a rifle in his mouth was directed by the photographer. She asked him to pose this way. The entire picture(not just of Cobain)shows Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic clearly laughing at Cobain as he has the rifle in his mouth. Also, anyone who believes Cobain was clearly suicidal b/c of his lyrics is truly misinformed. There is a lot of media hype involved in this case which was created in part by Courtney Love herself, insisting Cobain was suicidal.

if kurt cobain was so suicidal, why would he purchase 2 plane tickets leaving seattle only to never use them?? and why would he buy 2? was he intending to leave with another woman?

He did not try to commit suicide in Rome. I'd say that the most crucial piece of evidence that explains this, is the Doctor who treated him said it was an accident. He did not swallow 50 pills as stated in Heavier Than Heaven. Cross made countless errors in that book. Had he swallowed 50 the Dr would have stated it as a suicide attempt. Also Rohyphnol has a memory erasing effect on the person using the drug. Astonishingly, the first thing he said when he woke up from his coma was directed to Love in which he wrote on paper "F(#* YOU".

I just have to clarify that everyone needs to stop saying things like,"oh its an obvious suicide. he was a troubled guy." there are a lot of people who care about this case to have it so easily dismissed. also, to whoever said that theres no point in "chucking someone in jail" b/c he's dead either way: if someone murdered someone you cared about, would you want justice?? or would you want to let the murderer go free?? that is absurd! i can't comprehend that sort of reasoning.

to those reading this thread who really care visit: cobaincase.com or justiceforkurt.com . that's all i have to say.

Agreed 100% Anyone who says "its a suicide open and shut case" has done nothing more than listened to what someone else has told them. The evidence for Homicide is absolutly overwhelming. Courtney Love is a dumb talentless **** who road his coat tails and banged ever up and coming rock band in the buisness. It is little known but Kurt Cobain and Dave Grohl wrote the only hit songs for her band "hole" called Doll Parts. Interestingly enough she had never had a hit before or after????

Wow...that's revealing.
Is it a motive for murder? Yes, I'd say so...if all that's actually true.

Now, mind you, I never paid all too much attention to Curt Cobain, or Courtney Love (although today, one cannot help getting an ear and eyefull of here since for some reason, she overtly seeks lots of attention), or Billy Corgan...

However, in seeing and hearing Courtney Love speak, and observing some of her behavior, one wonders:

Could she possibly be cognizant or smart enough to have planned a homicide, and executed it sucessfully, and never get nailed for it?

I would say the odds are: no. No way.


___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Has anyone ever seen the autopsy protocol on Curt Cobain...if it's actually been published publically?

Ah yes, the infamous pre-nup. Pffft. My ex husband and I had a prenup and we live in Seattle and were divorced in Seattle.

If her name was on all the assets like houses, cars, etc... it's quite likely that in the event of a divorce the community property laws would have invalidated the prenup. I know because I walked away from my marriage with the house and two of our cars even though technically they should have been excluded but the courts had no way to determine whether the pre-nup actually included assets that had my name on them so they applied normal Community Property laws to those assets. Any asset that had his name on it solely went to him and vice versa. For example, he got to keep his 401K because I wasn't named on it at all. His parents were the beneficiaries.

I know people that grew up with Kurt, I met Kurt twice myself in a social setting. His longtime childhood friends (who I have never seen interviewed) would tell you that they were not at all surprised to hear he'd decided to end it all... they all always felt it was just a matter of time starting from a pretty young age.

I also had the distinct displeasure of meeting Love a few times. She is a head case, but in all honesty, so was Cobain based on the few times I talked to him and the people I know who were friendly with him and knew him well. I know it's hard to hear that your hero is mostly a basketcase, but he really was. He was a very unhappy person most of his life.

There was also a woman that lived several doors down from the Lk. Wa. Home who I was very friendly with, she was a nurse, and it wasn't uncommon for her to return Cobain to his home when she found him wandering up and down the street in various states of stupor (and undress). She even tried to urge him to get help a few times, but he never wanted it.

I believe in my core, he did himself in regardless of the "evidence" arm chair CSI's have come up with.

Yes you are correct in saying she is a worthless individual, but she had an a friend (the male nanny) and a coroner as friends that aided.

There is a big difference between appreciating him as a musician and "hero". It would not have mattered about the prenup, since she was having an affair. No judge will award any sum to someone who has been caught having an affair. We all know Kurt was not a normal individual, he was a troubled guy who was strung out on herion. If he killed himself and there were no abnormalities, then most people including me would totally accept it. The fact that a PRIVATE DETECTIVE who has almost bankrupted himself trying to bring the truth about his "suicide" to light is enough for me to more than just raise an eyebrow. The more you know about this case the easier it is the see the truth behing his murder. People are not just making stuff up to say "murder" the evidence is there visit the websites listed above.