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Mr Slayer
I'm new to this subject. grin2.gif

But what I've heard is following;

Most people know that the head of the Spinx was originately carved out as a lion, or a dog and that the animal's head after a time was carved out to resemble a Pharaoh (not sure which) to his glory and ego.

What I also heard is that the Sphinx's original color is red. There are small bits of almost vanished paint all over it (?)
The oldest Pyramids are approx. 3000 yrs old if I'm not totally mistaken.
Some samples from the Sphinx that were checked showed that it seems not to have anything to do with the Pyramids, because the samples showed it to be around 10500 yrs. So I wonder, what culture made the Sphinx if those dating are correct?

There is a book (I'll check it out, I think it is "The Mars Mystery") which kaes a longshot statement that the red paint somehow connected it to Mars. Robert Temple on the other hand, has a point when he points out that it resembles more a dog than a lion.
(To me, it actually resembles a dog more than a lion; the body features are slim, and the tail is too long).
But then, Temple goes way over his head claimin it to be connected with the Dog star (Sirius).

I really don't know what to think ph34r.gif
marduk
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 15 2005, 10:01 AM)
I'm new to this subject.  grin2.gif

But what I've heard is following;

Most people know that the head of the Spinx was originately carved out as a lion, or a dog and that the animal's head after a time was carved out to resemble a Pharaoh (not sure which) to his glory and ego.

What I also heard is that the Sphinx's original color is red. There are small bits of almost vanished paint all over it (?)
The oldest Pyramids are approx. 3000 yrs old if I'm not totally mistaken.
Some samples from the Sphinx that were checked showed that it seems not to have anything to do with the Pyramids, because the samples showed it to be around 10500 yrs. So I wonder, what culture made the Sphinx if those dating are correct?

There is a book (I'll check it out, I think it is "The Mars Mystery") which kaes a longshot statement that the red paint somehow connected it to Mars. Robert Temple on the other hand, has a point when he points out that it resembles more a dog than a lion.
(To me, it actually resembles a dog more than a lion; the body features are slim, and the tail is too long).
But then, Temple goes way over his head claimin it to be connected with the Dog star (Sirius).

I really don't know what to think  ph34r.gif
[right][snapback]622560[/snapback][/right]


10,500 years is the date that the last ice age ended
it wasn't the construction date of the sphinx
Mr Slayer
Well, I only forwarded the stuff I heard. I never claimed it to be true.
marduk
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 15 2005, 12:51 PM)
Well, I only forwarded the stuff I heard. I never claimed it to be true.
[right][snapback]622611[/snapback][/right]

sounds like hancock's ravings to me,
you didn't mention leo though ?
thumbsup.gif grin2.gif
Amalgamut
yeah, i think the original face of the sphinx was a lions, or a dogs face like on the statues you see from egypt.
marduk
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ May 15 2005, 08:53 PM)
yeah, i think the original face of the sphinx was a lions, or a dogs face like on the statues you see from egypt.
[right][snapback]622972[/snapback][/right]

it could just as likely have been pee wee hermans face on the sphinx
we'll never know cos they recarved it
but you know the egyptians copied a lot of their early culture from sumeria
and guess whats outside the gates of babylon
user posted image
so you may be right on the lion
add to that the fact that lions in the ancient world represent guardians of great knowledge
and the prospect of finding that library beneath the sphiinx increases slightly
but its still 100% speculation
personally i think the sphinx is a badly carved rock
that at least is 100% factual

Alfaman
The sphinx is much older than the pyramids, and it's not just hancock that says this. The weathering on the body is much more advanced than that found on the facing stone of the great pyramid. The weathering patterns are consistent with rain fall and there hasn't been enough rain in Egypt to do this for thousands of years.
DJ_Quinn
What happened to the prediction by Adgar Cayce that an underground chamber would be found beneath the Sphinx? Has it ever been excavated? Anyone know?

We haven't found Atlantis yet either.

I'm staring to think that Cayce wasn't the most accurate of prognosticators.
ohmy.gif

Mr Slayer
That chamber you speak of is in The Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple somehow linked to the Mesopotamian legend of amphibian creatures visiting from outer space. I thing it's the Ommos or something like that. Anyway, that secret chamber is by the author thought to be a hidden waterchamber where the aliens dwelled.
He then connects it to Nibiru, Marduk, the Annunaki and hell knows what.... hmm.gif
Essan
QUOTE(DJ_Quinn @ May 16 2005, 09:53 AM)
What happened to the prediction by Adgar Cayce that an underground chamber would be found beneath the Sphinx? Has it ever been excavated? Anyone know?

We haven't found Atlantis yet either.

I'm staring to think that Cayce wasn't the most accurate of prognosticators.
ohmy.gif
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You don't say...... tongue.gif innocent.gif
DJ_Quinn
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 16 2005, 10:09 AM)
That chamber you speak of is in The Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple somehow linked to the Mesopotamian legend of amphibian creatures visiting from outer space. I thing it's the Ommos or something like that. Anyway, that secret chamber is by the author thought to be a hidden waterchamber where the aliens dwelled.
He then connects it to Nibiru, Marduk, the Annunaki and hell knows what....  hmm.gif
[right][snapback]623677[/snapback][/right]


Thank you. Has there been any archeological evidence for such a chamber?
Alfaman
Apparently, there was a couple of chambers found around the sphinx, one in front of the paws and one underneath, but when the local authorities in Egypt found out something had been found, the archeologists were banned from doing any more research.
DJ_Quinn
QUOTE(Alfaman @ May 16 2005, 10:34 AM)
Apparently, there was a couple of chambers found around the sphinx, one in front of the paws and one underneath, but when the local authorities in Egypt found out something had been found, the archeologists were banned from doing any more research.
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That's right. I think I saw that on Discovery.
You can hardly blame the Egyptian government for their policy when you consider the way the Giza plateau had been over-run by foriegn arceologists in the 20'th century.
Mr Slayer
I haven't heard anything about the excavation of such chambers. Of, course, it could have been be tuned down if ther really found something.

I haven't heard enything about that device they drove up that air- hole in one of the pyramids a couple of years ago... blink.gif
aquatus1
I still haven't found any credible sources of any chambers found underneath the Sphynx. Everyone knows about this alleged discovery, but I just can't find anything on it.
marduk
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 16 2005, 11:09 AM)
That chamber you speak of is in The Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple somehow linked to the Mesopotamian legend of amphibian creatures visiting from outer space. I thing it's the Ommos or something like that. Anyway, that secret chamber is by the author thought to be a hidden waterchamber where the aliens dwelled.
He then connects it to Nibiru, Marduk, the Annunaki and hell knows what....  hmm.gif
[right][snapback]623677[/snapback][/right]

There is no such legend in sumerian history at all.
you're talking about the Nommo the gods of the dogon of west mali
that has also recently been proven fraudulent
only sitchen still claims it is true
you have a source for this erroneous legend or is it something you heard about or read in a sci fi book
no.gif no.gif
as far as i'm aware there has never been an excavation under the front paws of the sphinx
it'd be a bit obvious if there was seeing as the sphinx is viewed by the public on a daily basis.
The origin for this one comes from a request by certain unscrupulous individuals who wanted to dig there. They were refused permission by the egyptian antiquities commission and the fact that they said no has been blown out of all proportion.
nobody has so much as stuck a spade in.
marduk
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 16 2005, 01:39 PM)
I haven't heard anything about the excavation of such chambers. Of, course, it could have been be tuned down if ther really found something.

I haven't heard enything about that device they drove up that air- hole in one of the pyramids a couple of years ago... blink.gif
[right][snapback]623789[/snapback][/right]

the robot climbed up the small passage and found another door blocking its path.
now theyre trying to build a climbing robot that can open doors.
Mr Slayer
Aaaaa....! Okay then. We are waiting.
aquatus1
You are referring to the UPUHAUT project, and they have their own website with history, CAD pictures, and great shots of the air shafts.
Mr Slayer
I will check it out!
marduk
QUOTE(aquatus1 @ May 16 2005, 03:46 PM)
You are referring to the UPUHAUT project, and they have their own website with history, CAD pictures, and great shots of the air shafts.
[right][snapback]623964[/snapback][/right]

yeah lots of interesting shots of the inside of a rock lined rectangular tube
like really really interesting stuff. no.gif no.gif
i can't wait for when they get the door open and find the little sticker that says "you have now invalidated your warranty"
thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif grin2.gif sleep.gif wacko.gif blink.gif
Blackleaf
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 15 2005, 09:01 AM)
I'm new to this subject.  grin2.gif


The oldest Pyramids are approx. 3000 yrs old if I'm not totally mistaken.
Some samples from the Sphinx that were checked showed that it seems not to have anything to do with the Pyramids, because the samples showed it to be around 10500 yrs. So I wonder, what culture made the Sphinx if those dating are correct?

[right][snapback]622560[/snapback][/right]



The Sphinx is also mysterious in another way. I read today in the library that the earliest known civilisations on Earth appeared approximately 10,000 years ago. However, scientists say the Sphinx is OLDER than 10,000 years old.

So, incredibly, it actually pre-dates the earliest known civilisations.

So who, or what, built it?
Blackleaf
The Sphinx is truly a mystery, and even expert scientists admit it. The Sphinx, is scientists have got its age write, PRE-DATES the earliest known civilisation in Egypt and possibly the world -


Whispers From a Forgotten Past

According to legend, nearly three and a half thousand years ago, one of the sons of the Egyptian Pharaoh Amenophis II was out hunting near a plateau some ten miles from Cairo. Tired from his endeavours, the Prince Thutmose rested in the shadow of a mysterious head protruding from the desert sands.

Thutmose duly fell asleep and, in a dream, heard the carved stone head whispering to him that one day he would become ruler of all Egypt ahead of his older brothers. The prince was also told that he would then free the body of the forgotten god from the desert sands where it had lain buried for centuries. Thutmose awoke refreshed, and, recalling the dream silently committed himself to clearing away the sands, intrigued that as a younger son, he could possibly become Pharaoh. He then left to continue his hunting.

On the death of his father the prophecy become true, with the former hunter ascending the throne as Pharaoh Tuthmosis IV. Shortly afterwards the Pharaoh, who was only to reign for eight years (1413-1405BCE), honoured the pledge made as a younger man and cleared the area around The Great Sphinx revealing the God in its true magnificence. (1)

This enigmatic clue to the existence of a lost people and world was supposedly constructed during the lifetime of the Pharaoh Chephren around 2550 BC (2). However there is no actual evidence to support this dating; the link with Chephren has been assumed given that The Great Sphinx shares the Giza plateau with the Ancient Egyptian Pyramids of which the greatest was believed to have been built by Chephren. It was also believed that the ‘face’ of The Great Sphinx depicted Chephren himself.

However over two thousand years later in the 1940s suggestions were being made that The Great Sphinx may well be much older than that, possibly by thousands of years. The first to propose this was the French scholar Rene Schwaller de Lubicz (1891-1962).

Schwaller had moved to Egypt in 1936 and had stayed there for 15 years studying the temples, particularly the Temple of Luxor. His initial research was published in 1949 and a fuller account of his findings was published in 1957. (3) During Schwaller’s time in Egypt he also examined The Great Sphinx and noted that it was badly eroded. Whilst this was not a new observation, Schwaller’s conclusion was; for he believed that the erosion had not been as a result of the wind (which would have cut sharp, straight patterns into sediment layers), but from water. He pointed out that the erosion on The Great Sphinx (Sphinx Pictures - above right) was clearly the rounded and furrowed contours typical of water erosion.

The implications of Schwaller’s observations were not immediately realised, for data regarding rainfall in Ancient Egypt was not widely available at that time. However, it is now known that Ancient Egypt experienced torrential rainfall, with some interruptions, from about 10,000 to 5000 BCE. This rain came to a complete end by the middle of the third millennium. (3)

This meant that if the erosion on The Great Sphinx was indeed as a result of water rather than wind, then the Sphinx must have been carved at least two and a half thousand years before it’s accepted date, possibly even much longer if weathered for thousands of years. The inevitable conclusion from this was startling; the construction of the Sphinx predated the Egyptian civilisation by thousands of years. Perhaps understandably, orthodox archaeologists and Egyptologists refused to even consider Schwaller’s hypothesis.

His work then languished in relative academic obscurity until it came to the attention of independent Egyptologist John West (right) who later published his own book ‘Serpent In the Sky: the High Wisdom of Ancient Egypt’ (5). After rigorous examination, West agreed with many of Schwaller’s earlier findings and concluded that The Great Sphinx did indeed predate Egyptian civilisation.

Such confirmation again threatened to cast accpeted world history into confusion, but this time its proponent was not to be easily dismissed. West was fully aware that world history as we know it centres on the Egyptian culture being founded around 3000 BCE. So the question was again raised. If the early egyptians had not built The Great Sphinx, then clearly some other peoples had. And not only had someone else built the Sphinx, but they had done so thousands of years before there should have been a people civilised enough to undertake the task and there was certainly no obvious evidence that such a people had existed. Inevitably this was all too much to bear and West’s work was also consigned to the ‘best left alone’ fringe and considered little more in academic circles as had Schwaller’s work earlier in the century.

But West wasn’t prepared to be dismissed so easily. By the 1980s he had interested a respected geologist from the University of Boston, a Dr. Robert Schoch. Schoch was a highly respected stratigrapher (a geologist who studies layers of rock) and palaeontologist and author of four published books.

Schoch explains his involvement. "I grudgingly got involved in the whole controversy as a favour to a couple of fellow academics at Boston. I was persuaded to get involved by Robert Eddy, Professor of Rhetoric at Boston, and an old friend of West. I was told West wanted an ‘open minded’ geologist to help explore his theory. I heard West out, but did not think there was much chance he was correct in suggesting that the Sphinx was older than its standard attribution – until I got to Egypt." (6)

Schoch carried out a clinical assessment of West’s claims and was mindful of suggestions that if the erosion was indeed caused by water, then this could be attributed to more recent flooding of the Nile, and therefore no earlier redating was required. When looking for evidence of this, however, Schoch noticed that the erosion was heaviest on the upper parts of The Great Sphinx and enclosure walls and not around the base where flooding should have undercut the monument. He therefore concluded in June 1990 that the erosion had indeed been caused by the weathering of rain over thousands of years rather than by wind erosion or flooding. He later published these findings. (7)

On 23rd October 1991, Schoch presented his material to the Geological Society of America, where it was grudgingly accepted rather than embraced (8). However the academic world was not totally convinced with one scholar, Carol Redmount of the University of California, claiming it undermined "everything we know about Ancient Egypt" (9) and another, Peter Lacovara, assistant curator of the Egyptian Department of the Boston Museum of Fine Arts, muting "there are no big surprises in store for us". (10) He wasn’t ready to believe that The Great Sphinx predated the Egyptian civilisation.

Despite these reservations, it appeared proved beyond doubt that the erosion had been caused by water and rainfall rather than flooding.But then another tenacious scholar waded in with a different agenda.

Mark Lehner, of the Oriental Institute at the University of Chicago, had been investigating the Sphinx since 1980. He was dismissive of Schoch’s estimate that the Sphinx had been built around 7000BC, possibly earlier.

Ironically, Lehner’s interest in Ancient Egypt and The Great Sphinx originated from his connection with the Association for Research and Enlightenment (ARE - The Edgar Cayce Foundation) which expounded theories of the lost civilisation of Atlantis. Indeed, Lehner had written a book ‘The Egyptian Heritage based on the Edgar Cayce Readings’ (11). He openly admitted, "it’s no secret that when I went [to Egypt] I myself was imbued with the idea of lost civilisations…. So I was in fact … looking for the lost civilisation and something called the Hall of Records."

However, after his own exhaustive research, Lehner concluded there was no connection between Ancient Egypt and any lost civilisation and he wasn’t prepared to have a youthful Schoch claim otherwise. Lehner’s first objection to Schoch and West’s claims was if an earlier civilisation had built the Sphinx, where was the evidence of it’s existence? In his opinion it was nowhere to be found. Secondly, Lehner implied that Schoch was incompetent as a geologist. "I don’t think he has done his geological work yet … one of the primary pillars of his case is that if you compare The Great Sphinx to the Old Kingdom tombs, they don’t share the same weathering, therefore the Sphinx must be older, but he’s comparing layers in the Sphinx to other layers." (12)

Lehner was alleging that the ‘Sphinx layers’ ran under the tombs, so the tombs are made of different limestone, by implication harder, and should therefore have weathered much more slowly. If correct, this would have destroyed Schoch’s case – and along with it any need to account for what peoples had built the Sphinx before the Egyptians.

The British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) then entered the fray. They were preparing a television programme to show West’s theory based on Schoch’s evidence. It was important for them to establish who was right, Schoch or Lehner, as the corporation was anxious not to show a potentially flawed documentary that could damage its integrity and world-wide reputation fort serious and informed reporting. They therefore hired an independent expert to give a professional opinion on who was right. The outcome was beyond doubt; the tombs were made of the same flaky limestone as the Sphinx. Schoch and West were correct and Lehner’s counter arguments had been dealt a body, but not a knockout, blow.

Lehner countered by arguing that the face of the Sphinx was in fact the same as that of an undamaged statue of Chephren (d. 2533BC). He published an article in the April 1991 issue of National Geographic in which he described using computer graphics to assist in this task. "We have constructed images of the Sphinx as it may have looked thousands of years ago. To create the face, I tried matching views of other sphinxes and pharaohs to our model. With the face of Khafre [Chephren], the Sphinx came alive." (13)

No so, West countered, stating that the two faces actually looked nothing like each other. West decided to approach Detective Sgt. Frank Domingo (right), a senior forensic police artist with the New York Police Department who had joined the ranks in 1966 for an informed opinion (14). Domingo had gained an impressive reputation in facial reconstructions to the extent that archaeologists and historians regularly sought out and used his services.

He was asked whether he was prepared to travel to Giza to clarify whether or not the Sphinx was actually Chefren. "What if I decide it is Chephren?" He asked. "If that’s what you come up with, that’s what I’ll publish." West replied. (15)

Domingo duly visited Cairo and took many photographs of the Sphinx and the statue of Chephren housed in the Cairo museum. He concluded that the chin of the Sphinx is far more prominent that that of Chephren, and more importantly, that a line drawn from the ear to the corner of the Sphinx’s mouth sloped at an angle of 32 degrees. The same line drawn on Chephren is only 14 degrees. This along with other dis-similarities led Domingo to conclude that the Sphinx is definitely not a portrait of Chephren (16). Given that it is clearly not Chephren, who then might it may actually be?W will never know for certain but perhaps a clue lies in the overall shape of the Sphinx. Even a casual glance at the sculpture shows that the Sphinx’s head is badly out of proportion with the rest of its body. Some researchers have suggested that the original head was much larger had could possibly have been that of a lion. This would certainly make sense for the rest of the Sphinx’s body appears to be that of a lion. Why then recarve the sculpture? Again, speculation, but we do know that the body of the ‘lion’ has spent most of its existence under the sand. In all probability those, like Tuthmosis, rediscovering the Sphinx in the age of the Pharaohs, only came across its head, perhaps in a poor state of repair and so recarved it to represent the new age.

Even though Domingo had demonstrated that the Sphinx was not a portrait of Chephren (apparently destroying Lehner’s last argument), the matter did not rest. The American Association for the Advancement of Science scheduled a session to debate the issue at its annual general meeting in Chicago on 7th February 1992. Lehner attended along with geologist K. Lal Gauri of the University of Louisville, who had also studied the Sphinx for many years. West also attended and presented his arguments. (17)

Once again, the water erosion findings were endorsed even though Egyptologists themselves could not bring themselves to accept the implications of this endorsement. The AAAS meeting broke up in words that, according to the New York Times "skated on the icy edge of scientific politeness" (18)

Schoch (left) was taken back by the strength of feeling regarding his claims, which he considered were based on science rather than a belief in some form of Egyptian ‘Order’. "When I first became interested in the dating of the Sphinx," he commented, "a friend who had lived in Egypt for several years warned me that I might run into such hostility. At first I was incredulous, but now I tend to think he may have been correct." (19)

Schoch, of course, was not the first scientist to run foul of Egyptologists. As Germer wrote in 1986,"In the past, co-operation between the natural sciences and Egyptology has not necessarily been successful in every case. The Egyptologist is initially suspicious; he often rejects out of hand, and is unwilling to work with scientific data. He believes that he can do better with his own methodology." (20)

After the controversy subsided, West spent the next eighteen months producing a documentary for television that attracted thirty million viewers when it aired in the United States on 10th November 1993. (Broadcast on the NBC network at 9:00 PM EST. The documentary won a 1993 Emmy award for Best Research and a nomination for Best Documentary.)

Although the arguments did not stop entirely, with papers still being issued on a regular basis, it does appear that West and Schoch had won the academic debate that the Sphinx should be redated to a much earlier age. (21)

So if the monument was constructed before the Egyptian civilisation, who did build it, and who were they? This is the one major argument against the earlier dating that Schoch cannot answer, however he does not see it as his problem to answer; he is a geologist not an historian. He rightly sees that as a problem for others.

It seems obvious to look for clues as to who these lost people were on the Giza plateau itself. Yet the area had been overrun with researchers, robbers and excavators for hundreds of years so presumably nothing new could now turn up. However geologists have recently developed a technique that could lead to previously hidden features being discovered.

This ‘new’ method is used by geologists for studying deeper layers of rock. A metal plate is struck with a sledge-hammer (below); the vibrations go down through the rock and are reflected back by various strata. These echoes are then picked up by ‘geophones’ placed at intervals along the ground and a computer later interprets their data. (22)

Using this method, John West’s geo-physicist, Thomas L Dobecki, noted that under the front paws of the Sphinx (Sphinx Pictures - right) there appeared to be some form of underground chamber, possibly more than one. This aroused considerable excitement for legend has it that chambers under the Sphinx hold ancient secrets.

So what did the Giza Plateau authorities do with this information? They immediately announced that further excavations would be delayed, not by months but for years. However, perhaps not too much should be read into this. An early photograph taken in 1926 showed a man standing at the entrance to a passageway leading into the Sphinx, although there is no record of any findings and the entrance was subsequently sealed with new blocks. Another passage found in 1987 yielded no more than some shoes and an early 20th Century newspaper. (23) Yet the knowledge that The Great Sphinx actually does contain secret passages and chambers means that at some point in the future we may discover clues to a hidden past.

One outcome of the Schoch and West investigation and the inevitable conclusion that a forgotten people predating the Ancient Egyptians had built the Sphinx, was to refocus attention on the Egyptian Pyramids for it seemed unlikely that the giant statue would have been constructed in isolation, indeed the monument almost appears to be protecting the Giza plateau. Perhaps, then, the Ancient Egyptian Pyramids could provide some clues about the lost people who had constructed the Sphinx and then disappeared from history.


http://www.violations.org.uk/book1/whispers/plateaupart1.htm
sourpatchkid
QUOTE
10,500 years is the date that the last ice age ended

Actually the las Ice Age ended at around 12,000-13,000 y.b.p. current theory suggests that the 10,500 y.b.p. could possibly be signifigant to the approximate time of the "great flood" which is foretold in so many different cultures. This is of course not widely accepted by mainstream science as it predates the accepted time of organized cultures and cities.
A not so well repsected archeologist Graham Hancock, has released his "findings" indicating that the sphynx along with several other well known archeological sites such as Angkor Wat, the great pyramid and the stone faces of Easter Island all correspond to astronomical alignments of the same apporximate timeline (10,500 y.b.p.) I do not know if this conclusion is drawn on the work of others or if it was formulated in part by the work of others.
In his conclusion he indicates that 10,500 y.b.p. the Sphynx (which faces east) would have been "looking" directly at the constelation Leo at sunrise of December 21st- this being an approximate day of the year.
The sphynx, in some rather factually unbased theories, has recently been connected, not just to mars, but the face on mars. (I will have to look up the website later, as it has disappeared from my history). The Cydonia region is believed to have three pyramids, and a giant "face". To see how it looks like a lion: click here anyway the face is now thought by some out-theres to be a half-man, half-lion with three surrounding pyramids, just as the sphynx on earth is now.
Mr Slayer
Yeah, I agree. I mean, the last Ice age didn't affect Egypt in a negative way? There were green valleys, forests and alike there at the time, right?
DJ_Quinn
The Egyptians claimed that they were part of a third civilizations on the earth, and that there were 2 earlier lost civilizationsons that had ended by catechlismic events, probably floods.
Mr Slayer
Ehmm....Interesting.
DJ_Quinn
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 17 2005, 08:09 AM)
Ehmm....Interesting.
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One of the previous civilizations correlates to Atlantis.
Essan
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 17 2005, 07:23 AM)
Yeah, I agree. I mean, the last Ice age didn't affect Egypt in a negative way? There were green valleys, forests and alike there at the time, right?
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Some of the time, yes. But for much of the time it seems to have been more arid than today.

However, after the ice age, a pluvial period would have made it a green and pleasant land for several thousand years (roughly 6,000-10,000bp). This was when the Sahara had rivers and lakes. Until further climatic change around 5,500bp resulted in a deterioration to today's arid climate.
The Roswell Man
so anyone know when know when they get a robot to open the 'door' yet? huh.gif
hope i wont wait another decade or sumthing.... huh.gif dontgetit.gif w00t.gif yes.gif disgust.gif
DJ_Quinn
QUOTE(The Roswell Man @ May 17 2005, 02:06 PM)
so anyone know when know when they get a robot to open the 'door' yet? huh.gif
hope i wont wait another decade or sumthing.... huh.gif  dontgetit.gif  w00t.gif  yes.gif  disgust.gif
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Yes, Geraldo Riverra will be hosting the live broadcast sometime later this year.
debraregypt
QUOTE(marduk @ May 16 2005, 01:51 PM)
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 16 2005, 11:09 AM)
That chamber you speak of is in The Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple somehow linked to the Mesopotamian legend of amphibian creatures visiting from outer space. I thing it's the Ommos or something like that. Anyway, that secret chamber is by the author thought to be a hidden waterchamber where the aliens dwelled.
He then connects it to Nibiru, Marduk, the Annunaki and hell knows what....  hmm.gif
[right][snapback]623677[/snapback][/right]

There is no such legend in sumerian history at all.
you're talking about the Nommo the gods of the dogon of west mali
that has also recently been proven fraudulent
only sitchen still claims it is true
you have a source for this erroneous legend or is it something you heard about or read in a sci fi book
no.gif no.gif
as far as i'm aware there has never been an excavation under the front paws of the sphinx
it'd be a bit obvious if there was seeing as the sphinx is viewed by the public on a daily basis.
The origin for this one comes from a request by certain unscrupulous individuals who wanted to dig there. They were refused permission by the egyptian antiquities commission and the fact that they said no has been blown out of all proportion.
nobody has so much as stuck a spade in.
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I think he was talking of Oannes.... user posted image

here

or

here

Deb
marduk
QUOTE(debraregypt @ May 18 2005, 02:18 PM)
QUOTE(marduk @ May 16 2005, 01:51 PM)
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 16 2005, 11:09 AM)
That chamber you speak of is in The Sirius Mystery by Robert Temple somehow linked to the Mesopotamian legend of amphibian creatures visiting from outer space. I thing it's the Ommos or something like that. Anyway, that secret chamber is by the author thought to be a hidden waterchamber where the aliens dwelled.
He then connects it to Nibiru, Marduk, the Annunaki and hell knows what....  hmm.gif
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There is no such legend in sumerian history at all.
you're talking about the Nommo the gods of the dogon of west mali
that has also recently been proven fraudulent
only sitchen still claims it is true
you have a source for this erroneous legend or is it something you heard about or read in a sci fi book
no.gif no.gif
as far as i'm aware there has never been an excavation under the front paws of the sphinx
it'd be a bit obvious if there was seeing as the sphinx is viewed by the public on a daily basis.
The origin for this one comes from a request by certain unscrupulous individuals who wanted to dig there. They were refused permission by the egyptian antiquities commission and the fact that they said no has been blown out of all proportion.
nobody has so much as stuck a spade in.
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I think he was talking of Oannes.... user posted image

here

or

here

Deb
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nope as i said he's confusing the myths of the dogon with those of mesopotamia
thats something that Zech Sitchin did deliberatly to mislead his readership and the idea comes from there
Berossus in this area is about as reliable as herodotus. I.e. they're not reliable at all
Oannes is the greek name for Adapa.
the story of adapa is available for anyone who wants to read it
http://www.alternativearchaeology.org/html/adapa.html
pay attention to the following line
"The ship he steered, fishing and hunting for Eridu he did." (now say it in a yoda voice) w00t.gif
it explains why he returned to the sea every nigh and it also explains why he is depicted in traditional fish costume yes.gif yes.gif
he was a fisherman
not an amphibian
not a spaceman
now i'm sure you know the parable of the wise fisherman
it passed into christianity
and if you want to check that why not compare the hat of oannes with the hat of the pope. (see attachment) The pope as you know is also called the fisherman of rome (where did you get that hat where did you get that smile, isn't it a lovely one its just the proper style) w00t.gif
He was one of the seven sages.
that is one of seven wise men sent by Ea to civilse the world
thats one for each continent
He fished for eridu which is one of the earliest sumerian cities
Sorry there isn't a more fantastic answer
but things weren't all that fantastic 7000 years ago
ce la vie
thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif
The Roswell Man
marduk does it again
lol
debraregypt
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 15 2005, 09:01 AM)
I'm new to this subject.  grin2.gif

But what I've heard is following;

Most people know that the head of the Spinx was originately carved out as a lion, or a dog and that the animal's head after a time was carved out to resemble a Pharaoh (not sure which) to his glory and ego.

What I also heard is that the Sphinx's original color is red. There are small bits of almost vanished paint all over it (?)
The oldest Pyramids are approx. 3000 yrs old if I'm not totally mistaken.
Some samples from the Sphinx that were checked showed that it seems not to have anything to do with the Pyramids, because the samples showed it to be around 10500 yrs. So I wonder, what culture made the Sphinx if those dating are correct?

There is a book (I'll check it out, I think it is "The Mars Mystery") which kaes a longshot statement that the red paint somehow connected it to Mars. Robert Temple on the other hand, has a point when he points out that it resembles more a dog than a lion.
(To me, it actually resembles a dog more than a lion; the body features are slim, and the tail is too long).
But then, Temple goes way over his head claimin it to be connected with the Dog star (Sirius).

I really don't know what to think  ph34r.gif
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Many people think it was a yardang....but Dr. Shock disagrees

look here at Dr. Shock's info

and If you have not heard of the theory there may be a second one....

see here

I think the lions are a type of 'cherubim".... whereby you most always see two of them.....

you see the two guarding the tree of life... and entrance to "Eden".... I believe this is somewhat where the "Hebrew" got their idea of two winged Cherubim....
from the egyptain 'arks"... or they called them "barks"... or look at the Isis and Nephthes (sister to Isis) ..... they were the cherubim on Tut's coffin... the two..


user posted image

Libation cup of King Gudia of Lagash... 2000BC Sumer

Sumerian myth is interesting with these 2 guardians...cheribim, lions... it is a constant of 2 in history....

Deb
The Roswell Man
dont get marduk started on dr shoch rolleyes.gif
hes a kook w00t.gif rolleyes.gif
marduk
leave sumerian myth out of it.
there are lots of examples of two staffs or two snakes in sumerian art
thats because the sumerian god enki is depicted with two snake staffs, thats his sign
its a popular motif in sumer art
a bit like including a crucifix in christian designs
and you're quoting religious gospel like its historical fact
it isn't
as for two sphinx on the giza plateau
that made me laugh for a while
so i'm gald i heard it
i wouldn't put much likelihood into it though
the giza plateau sits on bedrock
not sand
so anything sitting on the bedrock can be found easily with ultrasound
and the plateau is probably one of the most ultrasound tested areas on earth
so far nothing new has been found since the 19th century

DJ_Quinn
Dr. Shock? Wasn't he in "Batman Forever"?

The riddle of the Sphynx will never be solved.
debraregypt
Marduk.... I'm not so sure Oannes equates with adapa....

Oannes may be Gr..... but so is "pyramid" and "sphnix" Greek.... many words turn into the Greek word when we address what it is these days.... Pramid = Mer

"""known in the Chaldean "legends""""

anyway..... here's what this site has to say on this Oannes... and read further the Annedoti (adapa?) came after him...5 in number... is this where the theory lies that this is the Adapa or where'd you get this.. or the ref. you did get it????

and the popes hat.... yep no problem with that....



"TG Oannes. (Gr.) Musarus Oannes, the Annedotus, known in the Chaldean "legends", transmitted through Berosus and other ancient writers, as Dag or Dagon, the "man-fish". Oannes came to the early Babylonians as a reformer and an instructor. Appearing from the Erythraean Sea, he brought to them civilisation, letters and sciences, law, astronomy and religion, teaching them agriculture, geometry and the arts in general. There were Annedoti who came after him, five in number (our race being the fifth) -- "all like Oannes in form and teaching the same"; but Musarus Oannes was the first to appear, and this he did during the reign of Ammenon, the third of the ten antediluvian Kings whose dynasty ended with Xisuthrus, the Chaldean Noah (See "Xisuthrus"). Oannes was "an animal endowed with reason . . . whose body was that of a fish, but who had a human head under the fish's with feet also below, similar to those of a man, subjoined to the fish's tail, and whose voice and language too were articulate and human" (Polyhistor and Apollodorus). This gives the key to the allegory. It points out Oannes, as a man and a "priest", an Initiate. Layard showed long ago (See Nineveh) that the "fish's head" was simply a head gear, the mitre worn by priests and gods, made in the form of a fish's head, and which in a very little modified form is what we see even now on the heads of high Lamas and Romish Bishops. Osiris had such a mitre. The fish's tail is simply the train of a long stiff mantle as depicted on some Assyrian tablets, the form being seen reproduced in the sacerdotal gold cloth garment worn during service by the modern Greek priests."

My Webpage
marduk
QUOTE(The Roswell Man @ May 18 2005, 02:46 PM)
dont get marduk started on dr shoch rolleyes.gif
hes a kook w00t.gif  rolleyes.gif
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"Dr schoch is a kook"
well that is a surprise
up til now he's always been considered as a harvard educated geologist with a very good reputation for not talking crap.
maybe you're confusing him with someone else cos i so far have believed every thing he's said. He's extremely credible and does very good research
He's also probably the most famous geologist on earth
maybe you should check out his forum before you go slandering anyone accidentally
http://robertschoch.net/Forum/index.php?act=idx
its only for serious researchers, people that talk about aliens get banned normally
i also know both his moderators personally and have his private e mail adresses cos we exchange information occaisonally
in fact you'd probably be surprised if you saw my mailing list by just exactly who's on it
innocent.gif thumbsup.gif

debraregypt
QUOTE(The Roswell Man @ May 18 2005, 01:46 PM)
dont get marduk started on dr shoch rolleyes.gif
hes a kook w00t.gif  rolleyes.gif
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You mean Marduk is or Dr. Shoch is.... They give many Kook's diploma's? Ph.D's..?.. well, I will say this is true.... know some... but Dr. Shoch isn't a Kook.... don't know Marduk that well to know...

Deb
marduk
QUOTE(debraregypt @ May 18 2005, 02:57 PM)
Marduk.... I'm not so sure Oannes equates with adapa....

Oannes may be Gr..... but so is "pyramid" and "sphnix" Greek.... many words turn into the Greek word when we address what it is these days.... Pramid = Mer

"""known in the Chaldean "legends""""

anyway.....  here's what this site has to say on this Oannes... and read further  the Annedoti (adapa?) came after him...5 in number... is this where the theory lies that this is the Adapa or where'd you get this.. or the ref. you did get it????

and the popes hat.... yep no problem with that....



"TG Oannes. (Gr.) Musarus Oannes, the Annedotus, known in the Chaldean "legends", transmitted through Berosus and other ancient writers, as Dag or Dagon, the "man-fish". Oannes came to the early Babylonians as a reformer and an instructor. Appearing from the Erythraean Sea, he brought to them civilisation, letters and sciences, law, astronomy and religion, teaching them agriculture, geometry and the arts in general. There were Annedoti who came after him, five in number (our race being the fifth) -- "all like Oannes in form and teaching the same"; but Musarus Oannes was the first to appear, and this he did during the reign of Ammenon, the third of the ten antediluvian Kings whose dynasty ended with Xisuthrus, the Chaldean Noah (See "Xisuthrus"). Oannes was "an animal endowed with reason . . . whose body was that of a fish, but who had a human head under the fish's with feet also below, similar to those of a man, subjoined to the fish's tail, and whose voice and language too were articulate and human" (Polyhistor and Apollodorus). This gives the key to the allegory. It points out Oannes, as a man and a "priest", an Initiate. Layard showed long ago (See Nineveh) that the "fish's head" was simply a head gear, the mitre worn by priests and gods, made in the form of a fish's head, and which in a very little modified form is what we see even now on the heads of high Lamas and Romish Bishops. Osiris had such a mitre. The fish's tail is simply the train of a long stiff mantle as depicted on some Assyrian tablets, the form being seen reproduced in the sacerdotal gold cloth garment worn during service by the modern Greek priests."

My Webpage
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oannes is his greek name because it was the early greek historians who wrote all these mysteries down and thats the form in which we know most of them today.
that is until recently when we started excavations in mesopotamia and started recovering the sumerian texts on tablets
we are now able to translate the stories directly into english from their original format. something the early greeks couldn't
they just went around interviewing priests which is why their renditions are normally factually incorrect.
herodotus stated in his report f babylon that the walls were 8 times longer that they actually are, so its in some dispute wether he actually went there or got all his information from another source. i.e. egypt
Adapa's other name was Uan
there is no doubt that adapa and oannes are one and the same
no doubt at all
Xisuthrus was the greek name for upnapishtim, who was also known as atrahasis
see xisuthrus and oannes are just the greek names
adapa and upnapishtim are their real names
atrahaisis means "extra wise" and is an epithet of unpapishtim/Xisuthrus
Uan means craftsmen and is an epithet of adapa/oannes
you had to be a craftsman to be a fisherman
you had to build your own boat in those days
and you had to build them from reeds
Its very simple if you drop the greek crap and concentrate on the original
which we can do now but couldn't then
hope this clears up your misunderstanding
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debraregypt
QUOTE(marduk @ May 18 2005, 01:59 PM)
QUOTE(The Roswell Man @ May 18 2005, 02:46 PM)
dont get marduk started on dr shoch rolleyes.gif
hes a kook w00t.gif  rolleyes.gif
[right][snapback]627732[/snapback][/right]

"Dr schoch is a kook"
well that is a surprise
up til now he's always been considered as a harvard educated geologist with a very good reputation for not talking crap.
maybe you're confusing him with someone else cos i so far have believed every thing he's said. He's extremely credible and does very good research
He's also probably the most famous geologist on earth
maybe you should check out his forum before you go slandering anyone accidentally
http://robertschoch.net/Forum/index.php?act=idx
its only for serious researchers, people that talk about aliens get banned normally
i also know both his moderators personally and have his private e mail adresses cos we exchange information occaisonally
in fact you'd probably be surprised if you saw my mailing list by just exactly who's on it
innocent.gif thumbsup.gif
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Absolutly agree with you Marduk..

love your picture....love the art!

Deb

marduk
QUOTE(debraregypt @ May 18 2005, 03:02 PM)
QUOTE(The Roswell Man @ May 18 2005, 01:46 PM)
dont get marduk started on dr shoch rolleyes.gif
hes a kook w00t.gif  rolleyes.gif
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You mean Marduk is or Dr. Shoch is.... They give many Kook's diploma's? Ph.D's..?.. well, I will say this is true.... know some... but Dr. Shoch isn't a Kook.... don't know Marduk that well to know...

Deb
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I agree,
i'm much more of a kook than Dr Robert Scoch
thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif
I think roswell just heard a new name and is probably already looking it up
thumbsup.gif thumbsup.gif
debraregypt
...lol Marduk.. that's cute!...

I suppose we all are in our own way...

deb

The Roswell Man
my apologies on shoch ppl
my bad his story checks out
lol grin2.gif w00t.gif original.gif thumbsup.gif
marduk
QUOTE(debraregypt @ May 18 2005, 03:23 PM)
...lol  Marduk.. that's cute!... 

I suppose we all are in our own way...

deb
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I disagree
You're cute Debra wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif
Roswell isn't in any way he's just one of life's noobies innocent.gif innocent.gif
and i'm Crazy w00t.gif w00t.gif
The Roswell Man
nows that a bit below the belt eh? grin2.gif w00t.gif
cant we all be friends and say nice things to each other? w00t.gif laugh.gif grin2.gif
marduk
QUOTE(The Roswell Man @ May 18 2005, 03:40 PM)
nows that a bit below the belt eh? grin2.gif  w00t.gif
cant we all be fiends and say nice things to each other? w00t.gif  laugh.gif  grin2.gif
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i thought i was saying nice things about you Roswell
you wanna hear the bad things ?
w00t.gif w00t.gif w00t.gif
The Roswell Man
back on topic, will we eva know what was on the original sphinx face? hmm.gif
it was obviously recarved wasnt it? huh.gif dontgetit.gif
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