Imagine always being happy and always knowing everything. Its fun at first but then it gets really boring really fast. Now imagine being all the above for ALL ETERNITY. thats the heaven that everyone always seems to preach whenever they're describing heaven. Not to sound sacreligous or anything, but heaven sounds depressing. Life is made interesting by learning new things and experiencing new things. Being unhappy and learning makes living fun. I can't fully describe what I'm am trying to say, but I hope its at least a bit understandable. Am I the only one who thinks this, or are there others out there who are depressed by the concept of the Christian life-after death?

You have never been to heaven, how would you know?

So, basically you are saying that love and happiness is not fun?

Are you saying that when you are not happy, and not loved, you are having fun?

I think it is silly... I mean I will like it. I personally don't think Heaven will suck. I mean what sucks is the fact that on Earth we suffer from illness and poverty. In Heaven we will not and we will live forever in HAPPINESS. So I think it is much better to live in Heaven for all eternity then Hell.

Not to sound sacreligous or anything, but HEAVEN = SKY
Heaven and the Kingdom
Heaven, incorrectly thought to be a divine retirement home, which is vaguely located somewhere "up there", and "the kingdom", also incorrectly thought to be a "place", are inappropriately labeled as the destination we go "to" if we do whatever the pulpit says to do to "get" there. The Bible completely contradicts this concept. The prophecy "Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth." (Matthew 5:5), is very clear about the true inheritance of those who seek his promise, not heaven but the planet. These two verses show that the Christ not only considered meekness an essential part of his own personality, but that it is also a spiritual trait of great value:
♦ "Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls." (Matthew 11:29)
♦ "But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price." (I Peter 3:4)

Heaven Is The Sky
Not a divine retirement home.

In the Bible, all these clouds, whirlwinds, pillars, vessels, chariots and pavilions are seen hovering in, coming down from or rising into heaven. The thunders, trumpets and voices that are heard are heard from heaven. All the men who leave the ground and all the angels and metallic, glowing beings that come down to the ground do so either to, or from, heaven. All the lightnings, streams of fire, brimstone and other destructive things mentioned have their origin in heaven. Even wars are fought in heaven. Since all these things are seen in relationship to heaven, the way the word ‘heaven’ is used is the key to understanding these phenomenon and must be explained. The word heaven is used over 500 times in the Bible. In the Old Testament ‘heaven’ is translated almost exclusively from two different words. The Hebrew word 'shamayim' which is defined as ‘the sky', the place where the clouds and stars are, or 'shamayin', the Aramaic word of the same definition.

In the Old Testament ‘heaven’ is translated from other words only five times in the following verses:
Psalms 68:4 it is translated from the Hebrew, arabah, ‘ the desert ‘
77:18 the word is galgal, Hebrew for ‘ wheel or whirlwind '
89:6 & 37 where it is translated from the word shachaq, Hebrew for ‘ powder or thin vapor ’.
Isaiah 5:30 heaven is translated from ariyph, Hebrew for ‘ the sky ‘

The New Testament defines ‘heaven’ from the Greek word ‘ouranos’ meaning ‘the sky’ in all but 7 instances :
Philippians 2:10 Greek epouranos, ‘ above the sky, celestial ‘
Revelation 8:13, 14:6, 19:1, 11, 14, and 17 from the Greek word mesouranema, meaning mid-sky

The infrequency of the word ‘sky‘ in the Bible must also be looked at in the overall study of this concept. The words sky or skies only appear 11 times in all 66 books. The words for things that normally appear in the sky such as clouds, stars, whirlwinds, storms, lightning, birds, rain, hail and wind appear over 600 times. Heaven is the word the translators of the King James Bible in the early 1600's purposefully translated into the original words biblical authors used for the physical sky and not some ethereal plane. The King James Bible was translated for King James of England who lived in a royal castle, surrounded by royal people, all speaking a royal language; a very proper form of court English.The Court English employed entirely different words to describe things, thus,confusing the commoners as to the meaning of certain words. You was thee, raiment was clothing and sky was heaven. Therefore, in all but the above noted instances, the word heaven should be read as sky. Heaven is the sky and sky fits in every instance. Heaven is not the place with the 'pearly gates' or the 'streets of gold ' as the pulpit would have you believe. That is the new Jerusalem and is described in Revelation. Heaven is not said to be a reward for paying your tithes or a final destination for certain church members. Heaven is where God flies, the same place the birds fly. Heaven is where God lives because that is where his throne is and his throne flies. And if any more proof is needed just consider the inheritance of the beatitudes. "The meek shall inherit the Earth", not heaven. The heaven of the pulpit is a simplistic, human conceptualization not a Biblically based reality.

I'm not saying that- Im just saying that always being eternally blissful and never learning anything new sounds boring in the long run.

The Church View:
It is represented by the church to mean a place of eternal, fiery torture for those who don't believe in the Christ as Saviour, and in extreme cases, those who question the authority of the church. This obviously means that the majority of humanity is destined for eternal, fiery torture. Not very fair for a loving and forgiving God, but then the church does not seem to deeply embrace fairness or forgiveness. A vengeful and unforgiving God more suits a pulpit that spews eternal, fiery condemnations for everything from style of dress to political affiliation as a matter of standard practice. Hell also fulfills the strongest motivational force for the church in its arsenal of flock control, fear. There are no statistics on how many people attend church, not out of belief in God, but more out of conditioned fear of a fiery torture. It would be a good bet that if fear of hell were eliminated, church revenues would drastically shrink.

The Bible View:
In most instances "hell" is translated from words which mean a hole in the ground into which bodies are placed after death. Other instances leave it highly unlikely that hell is a place exclusively created for the eternal torture of unbelievers.

Of all biblical concepts, hell is one of the most mysterious and feared. The word "hell" appears 54 times in the Bible, 30 times in the Old Testament, 24 in the New Testament. In the Old Testament, hell is taken from the word, Sh'owl, pronounced sheh-ole' or Sh'ol; Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), Sheol, including its accessories and inmates: KJV--grave, hell, pit. It is interchangeable with the word grave or a pit. Basically, hell is a hole in the ground where bodies are buried. A thorough study of its appearance in Old Testament scripture will show it is not referred to as place of eternal fiery damnation.

In the New Testament it is taken from three words. First, we will examine the one from which the fiery place of eternal torture, so often associated with this word, is taken, Ghenna. It may surprise many to realize that we actually know where this place is, not an ethereal place where Satan dwells, but actually the Jerusalem city dump.
The word is Geena, pronounced gheh'-en-nah of Hebrew origin; valley of the son of Hinnom; ge-henna, or Ge-Hinnom, a valley of Jerusalem, used figuratively as a name for the place or state of everlasting punishment:
The actual place referred to is Hinnom, a deep, narrow ravine separating Mount Zion from the so-called "Hill of Evil Counsel" to the southwest of Jerusalem.

Hinnom is first mentioned here:
♦ Joshua 15:8. And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same is Jerusalem: and the border went up to the top of the mountain that lieth before the valley of Hinnom westward, which is at the end of the valley of the giants northward:
It was formerly the place where the idolatrous Jews burned their children alive as a sacrifice to Moloch and Baal. A particular part of the valley was called Tophet, the "fire-stove" or furnace, where the children were burned. After the Exile, in order to show their abhorrence of the locality, the Jews made this valley the receptacle of the refuse of the city. As with refuse, in those times it was burned to keep down vermin, the obvious offensive odors, to maximize space, and a fire was kept constantly burning there. Excavations carried out at this site from 1975 to 1980 by an archaeological mission turned up remains of nine burial caves around the ravine. In earlier excavations of the actual dump, it was found that the fire was still smoldering after centuries.
Here we have all the elements of the modern concept of Hell. A place of death, a burial area, destruction, anything placed in this fiery pit was consumed, a fiery furnace, where in the past children were burned alive, and unquenchable and everlasting fire, which is burning to this day.

Here are the instances where Ghenna is used:
♦ Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
♦ Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
♦ Matthew 10: 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
♦ Matthew 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
♦ Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
♦ Matthew 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
♦ Mark 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
♦ Luke 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
♦ James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

The next word is familiar to most, the Greek word Hades. And, as with the Hebrew word Sheol, it is interchangeable with the word grave. There is a serious problem trying to designate this as a place of eternal fiery torture rather than a burial place, the problem being, mainly, that Jesus spent three days in Hades after his crucifixion. Since it is clear that this place was actually a sepulchre, not a furnace, and that Jesus committed no sin to warrant such punishment; it would justify the logical conclusion that this is the grave. Attempting to insinuate that Jesus had to go to this fiery Hell to defeat it presupposes that such a place exists without solid scriptural evidence. Jesus performed his ultimate miracle by defeating death, not fire. In the case of Lazarus, it must be noted that this is a parable and is used in a metaphoric sense as with the use of the word Ghenna.
The word hell is translated from is haides, pronounced hah'-dace; properly, unseen, i.e. "Hades" or the place (state) of departed souls: KJV--grave, hell.

Here are the instances where the word Hades is used:
♦ Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
♦ Mark 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
♦ Luke 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
♦ Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
♦ Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
♦ Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
♦ Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
♦ Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
♦ Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The third word translated into hell is only used once and refers to the place of imprisonment for the angels that are described here:
♦ Genesis 6:4. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Enoch gives a detailed description of this place and can more easily be understood by reviewing the section in this book about the Flood. The word is Tartaroo, pronounced tar-tar-o'-o from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment. Here is the verse and its relation to the angels of the flood:
♦ 2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

If one chooses to embrace the concept of an eternity of suffering in a furnace, that is one’s prerogative, but it is not a biblical concept based on a strong foundation. It can be speculated and implied, but there is ample evidence against this concept.

I'm not saying Hell is better than heaven, I'm just saying that ACTUAL LIVING(life full of experiences) is a lot better then eternally being happy. I mean, which would you rather do-live in a giant mansion with everything you could ever want, or living life and exploring? The mansion would be fun for a while, but would get boring fast, while exploring and learning new things would always be fun. In other words, actual life is better sounding than heaven.

Aw well. I guess it is just how you look at it. I just know I want to go to Heaven. I don't think you will want the things of the world once you go to heaven. So therefore you wouldn't be bored....You understand.

The love you will feel in heaven is incomparable to any emotion you have ever felt on earth.

but what do you DO there? What is the purpose of it?

Norman, I just wanna say I seen that you have a scripture in here talking about Torment in Hell. So how can you say it isn't going to be torment or flames. I mean Luke 16:23-28. They specify this. Torment.....

Luke 16:23-28

23And in Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things: but now here he is comforted and thou art in anguish. 26And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, that they that would pass from hence to you may not be able, and that none may cross over from thence to us. 27And he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house; 28for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment

Hopefully you can sit around and get drunk all day.

According to Ashley... you sit around and just bask in God's glory.. nothing else.. no fun, no sex, no booze.. just praise to be god


But hey, if that's what christians like.. then it's all yours .. I'll stick to Tir na nOg and Summerland...

who?

Hey SC what is Tir na nOg ? Seriously I don't know.

Save a spot for me SC. We can play pin the tail on the kitty. grrrrrrowl!

Tir na nOg is "Land of youth" It's basicaly thought that where the origonal inhabbinents of Ireland went when the celts came over. Finding those lands.. they became the Fae folk.. (and if you knew mythology well.. you'd know faes wern't all the nice happy butterfly winged little females that danced around...) It's said that spending 3 months there is equivilant to 5 years out here in the "mortal" land. From some studies I've done, it seems like Summerland, which some witches (not just wiccan type) is accually Tir na nOg and where a spirit goes after death to live for a time. Frolicking, being with friends, drinking.. music... you know... fun.

Then when it's time, you come back to the mortal land, reincarnated...

mind you this is a simplified explination.. I'm sure there are others who can add apon it...

Oy Vey... you menlech!

Oh okay sounds interesting so it is a witches heaven so to speak and you relax until you are ready to be reborn or reincarnated. Very different then the Christian Heaven. I can see why you would like this SC.

Well, I'm no witch.. and I know some other people who follow verious pagan celtic paths, as well as any other given pagan path that also believe in it.. shamans, druids..nonwiccan witches (wicca you have to remember, took from verious other pagan religions to form it's own..)

Heaven would suck balls, it would be all cold and they would take your genitals away. Hell on the other hand would be badass, think about it. Nice and warm, near the center of the earth, wouldn't have to worry about eating anymore and best of all they dont take your genitals away. Besides hell cant be that bad, it was a christian idea to keep people in line. Seriously, the basic concept is scare the sh*t out of people by telling them if they dont conform they will be tortured for eternity, but if they are a nice christian they will go to heaven and will be happy forever. Too bad morons(and mormons) populate the earth... if they didn't we wouldn't need religion to keep them from being stupid all the time.

I highly doubt a "soul" has sexual organs.

not witches only 101. The celts believe in it as well. It is part of the celtic afterlife, more akin to the idea of a norse Valhalla than the christian heaven. It is more dynamic, and more 'life like'. You are reunited with those who have gone before, and you enjoy all the things that you enjoyed here. And, you have the option of being reborn.

And just for the record, not all celts are druids. But all are close to nature in some form or another.

Some things, such as feeling happy or loved, will never get boring...

....And you could've chosen a more appropriate topic title

Thanks guys. That is interesting. So you in fact can stay there forever and not be reborn?

Ever watch the first ghostbusters movie? *really obscure sceene mention* >D

is that the part where Dan Akroyd gets pleasure from the ghost?

Well for all we know.. the ghost coulda been doing anything pleasureable... hell she coulda been going for a ride...

PS It was ment jokingly

i remember that scene. that ghost chick was pretty hot.

Well.. who'd wanna be screwed by an ugly ghost? ._o ROFL

if there 'is' a heaven and hell then im doomed for hell plus it seems more funner, being near my element fire the whole time, get to know the big goat man xD 'satan' lol id rather be there then bright happy place >.<

For reals.

What if all of life's answers were simple and right under our noses? What if our greatest grievance in an eteranl place of punishment would be to know... to know what we could have had and how little we had to do to have it.

selling your soul to the biblegod is no small price indeed!

no thanks, i am not for sale (nor any part of me).... got to love the supposedly free choices you have in bibleland -> sell your soul to luci or sell your soul to the god. some real freedoms there!

good question.

I think that ALL the time. I am a Christian, and I cannot imagine a place of glory and happiness and excitement and blah blah blah forever. I agree that it would get boring after awhile. HOWEVER I believe there's so much I don't know, so much I can't wrap my mind around that just because I, as a human being, cannot grasp this concept does not mean that I never will. It's just like I can't wrap my mind around where God came from... and if there is no God where did everything else come from... as a human being all I know is that there are beginnings to EVERYthing. But that must not be so because something was ALWAYS here... somehow. And hopefully someday that will all make sense to me also. HOW and WHY are we here. incredible.

I agree heaven blows by the description I get from people I had a similar discusion about this earlier in the year.

Paradise to me is freedom from everything and start all over with my own universe!

Personally, I hate both Heaven and Hell.

If I went to Heaven, and a family member went to hell, where is the happiness in that?

And vice versa.

no fears, heaven and hell are the same place (just different perspectives).

Well first off, when you die that it says in bible that you won't be sad or unhappy. So how could you be depressed. Why cuz you can't imagine an after life without sinning and doing what you want? If so then you need to look for the right answers. Also, it speaks in bible that you won't remember the wordly things that happened to you in your life. That God will wipe all your tears. So if you go to heaven, you won't be depressed cuz you will be happy and never have to worry. So I think you won't have to worry about being bored and unhappy!

Actually when you die and Jesus comes back to end the world then your body and soul will be judged then you will either be sent into the lake of torment or you will go to Heaven. Cuz God specifically states that he will cure your diseases and wounds and broken heart when you go to heave, and that if you are sent to hell when you are judged that your earthly body will go with you. And it speaks that if you die blind, broken body, whatever you died with will go with you to hell. That is why God raises the dead and the bodies of the ground and sea, to be sent where they deserve to go.

How lovely.

I guess he isn't really a God of Love then!

Oh well.

i fail to see why you think your soul is something to be sold.

and i fail to see how you think doing things only according to the supposed law of a god is not selling out yourself and your freedom!

lets see.... are you free to jump off the top of a tall building? no, because you know it will likely kill or at least harm you. thus the choice is not free. free-will, and freedom are illusions. so long as you can forsee and comprehend the results of your actions you are not of free-will!

the same thing applies to selling out to one of the bible dudes! if you are doing things and making decisions according to what you think one of these dudes wants, you have sold yourself out for the whatever has been promised.

uh boy!!... this thread is actually still going?????

Religion has in no way held me back in my "freedoms."

Free will means we have the power to chose things at our own will. If I wanted to go jump off a building, I could. Nobody could stop me.

You can't "sell out" in the bible. You have to truly beleive. If you just say you believe then i means nothing.

I could say I am an astronaut, but we both know that I am not.

you are missing it....

if you do fully believe that some god dude is going to save your soul, give you eternal peace, or whatever else is promised so long as you pay the price of obedience, submission, worship, etc then you have sold yourself to the god dude!

god promises you something in exchange for your soul (freedom to be whatever you will be)
satan promises you something in exchange for your soul (giving you whatever it is you dream to be without the work)

they are doing the same thing! one gives the reward immediately, the other makes you wait (and hope it is coming).

god=devil: they are the same entity, of the same nature, and do business in the same fashion.

A couple of points...

Heaven exists outside of time... therefore, you have no sense of things getting "old" or "boring." Each moment you exist feels as if you are feeling it for the first time... it never tires out. It's kinda like life moving through frozen time.

When I wrote my supernatural thriller called FOREVER: A GODYSSEY ADVENTURE my brother had posed this same sentiment about heaven. So, I began digging deeply for intelligent replies to give him. Here's what I also discovered:

1. Earth is a foreshadowing, an imperfect reflection of the brilliance and beauty of Heaven. Earth is dark, dull, shabby and tasteless compared to Heaven.

2. God created Heaven not only as a domain of music that never repeats, but for learning, working, leading and discovery. Think of it as a place of never ending wonders for you to personally discover.

3. The physics of Heaven will be similar in some ways and totally alien in many others. I had a great deal of fun with this in the book.

4. There is fun, humor and play in Heaven as well as the pursuit of learning.

5. Pain and sorrow are physical concepts that will not exist in Heaven.

6. Joy, not happiness, is what you will experience. Joy means a sense of well being.

The Book of Revelations talks about a new Heaven and new Earth... after the first Heaven and Earth have passed away. God created humanity and our spirit in his image, to exist in an environment of learning, discovery, creating, experiential and growth. I have no problem seeing heaven this way either... from a biblical perspective.

It will be anything but boring... a million years will pass in the blink of an eye. We will have no use for time in eternity. We'll be too busy having fun...

Author JD Howes
FOREVER: A GODYSSEY ADVENTURE

@jd:

sounds too much like a kids euphoric fairy tale.

yay, heaven is where we have bliss and fun and nothing bad ever happens.... ok.

definitions like that prove to me it is all make-believe. as if heaven is summer vacation from elementary school or something. to become timeless we would have to loose knowledge. perhaps that is the key: we enter this idealic heaven by becoming completely devoid of any understanding at all! heaven is like being in a coma?

without contrast there is nothing and it no matter how "timeless" it is, it would become sickening pretty quick.

where exactly did you dig up your info to form these conclusions?