I am sure many of you have seen the movie “Dogma.” If not, it is about two Angels (the same two that are in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, so I am told) that find a loop hole in gods rules; and with a simple passing through of a church threshold, all of existence will be nullified, including God.

Movie review - http://www.ram.org/ramblings/movies/dogma.html

I ask all of you, if you had the choice to nullify all of existence, including god, would you?

This is how I see it
If existence was nullified:
1) All the sin in the world would end
2) Human suffering, starvation, exploitation and pain would end
3) All the people burning in hell, would no longer be burning
4) All the people in heaven could stop being so selfish.
5) There would be nothing and that is better then a god who tortures and pampers
6) Let the dead be dead
7) Peace at last


How do you see it?

And then there was... nothing

Hmmm. I don't think it'd be worth it. I mean, nothing would exist, so there would be no one to appreciate the lack of suffering, sin, etc.

No one would be around to feel anything correct, but look at what you would be stopping.

The people burning in hell right now would be greatful only for a second.

no thanks, I prefer to see mankind mature and reach the stars, even if we have to carry our emotional baggage with us.

I personally wouldn't either. I mean it is just what is no changing that. I mean we canm all say what if? But the reality is that we are here and we have to deal with our actions. All actions result into consequences. Both good and bad. So I mean I will just do my best to keep myself and others from suffering. I mean we are only human.

If you were to nullify Gods existence, then you would be erasing everything from existence.

That is right, and if you had the choice to end all that god has created would you?

Remember you would be ending:

Pain
Starvation
War
Slaughter
Rape
Hatred
Division

You would be loosing:

Your life
Your chance at heaven

Its not just about me. Think about it. If you erase God you erase everything.

I would rather keep everything going to help spread the greatest thing humans have.

Without anything , the very terms "meaning" and "reason" wouldnt exist either .

exactly.

Yes, but nothing does not hurt, or get revenge or punish. All you have with nothing is the "bliss" of nothing. You can't get that any where else.



And what is this great thing humans have?



True, is this something (nothing) you would opt in for or not?

When you die, would you rather leave it up to god to treat you right, or would you opt in for nothingness.

For me, I’ll take nothingness over god’s judgment because until I was in my early twenties I never cared or understood about this angry god. Now that I see what all the commotions about, I’ll take what never scared me from the beginning – “nothingness when I die. “


Nothingness does not hurt, does not kill, does not punish, does not send people to an eternity in hell. Sounds like an ok place to me!

Yes, but not being able to have the better things in life hurt more than no feeling at all. If you erased mankind from existence, then it would be like you were sleeping.

Love.

Sounds a little bit like suicide. Sure, all your troubles go away, but heck, what then?

Not for me. I'm not happy with what has happened in the past, but I regret very little of it, and I have accepted that there will always be people suffering somewhere. Sorry, but I'm walking away from Omelsas.

Ya it does doesn’t it, but that’s not what I am driving at. Yes, its suicide, but we all die right. So when we die, why have a god judge you and cross fingers that you’ll make the cut, when you could just have nothing after death. No pain, suffering, hell just “nothing”

I am basically saying, if I knew that the Bible and the Christian god were true, I would rather nullify existence and opt in for nothing because nothing is better then that god.

I am not opting out of my life here on Earth, and I totally agree with a statements like:



Or



However, if given the chance, I would remove the Christian god (if all is true) from power even if it meant nullifying all of us.

I am sure I will never get this chance so aren’t all of you lucky -

To anyone that has seen “Dogma” isn’t this what the two angels are saying:
“god you are so horrible, I would rather nullify us all then let you keep that place alive!”

Yes, but what would you have to gain?

My Webpage

You act like blowing everything out of existence is a good thing. Just because there is a lot of suffering and evil in the world doesn't mean that there is no good. You have to look past the surface to see the good within. The fact of the matter is that everything being wiped out is thousands of times worse than leaving things the way they are.

lets ask the same question on a smaller scale:

if you didn't like a city and its people (for whatever irrational reason - this is hypothetical), and you had access to a chest-mountable nuclear device (capable of leveling the entire city), would you strap on the device, walk into the middle of the city and detonate the bomb?

i really seems silly to annialate everything because of something you see as negative within the "everything".

True freedom of choice perhaps.

of course, if removing God ment destroying yourself, you wouldnt be around to enjoy that freedom.

Lilu:..what is worth saving?
Corban: ..like love...
Lilu: But I don't know love

Q-La I love that movie.

Yes there might be faults in the world but who are we to nullify it. I mean do you have kids or a family you love?

Must making this very life null and void going to make things better?

Answer: no.

But it is just something people are going to have to learn.. Love and peace.

And quit hating what they cannot change. The only thing you can change is yourself and even with that you must be willing....

But it would be a free choice. He did not give us free choice by punishing us for a sin Adam and Eve did.

QUOTE(4dplane @ May 16 2005, 07:46 PM)

I am sure many of you have seen the movie “Dogma.” If not, it is about two Angels (the same two that are in the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, so I am told) that find a loop hole in gods rules; and with a simple passing through of a church threshold, all of existence will be nullified, including God.

Movie review - http://www.ram.org/ramblings/movies/dogma.html 

I ask all of you, if you had the choice to nullify all of existence, including god, would you?

This is how I see it
If existence was nullified:
1) All the sin in the world would end
2) Human suffering, starvation, exploitation and pain would end
3) All the people burning in hell, would no longer be burning
4) All the people in heaven could stop being so selfish.
5) There would be nothing and that is better then a god who tortures and pampers
6) Let the dead be dead
7) Peace at last


How do you see it?
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"D Plane!!!" *cough* sowy, couldn't resist!

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"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said.....

Ahh, screw it!"



I loved the movie "Dogma"! So your question is a very interesting off shoot of the film's metaphorical message. I love it.

Firstly with respect to the term, "Nullify" and in answer to your question; If one nullified the existence of creation, it would then be rendered or altered into an anti-matter universe, with all the implications afforded in then altering your list of 7.

Also, it is my observation that before applying to the theory of nullifying god one would have to actually understand that god is a term who's genesis is derived from the human mind, to lend a subjective understanding on an objective plane.
All of the 7 issues you note as being altered, if god no longer existed are therefore immaterial.

The concept of "sin" is a human contrivance. The laws of physics, the third law for example, (action and equal/opposite reaction), exist as part of our theoretical manifest reality. It's the elitist ego that differentiates the good and bad of an action. For example the 7 deadly sins: Murder is a sin, but defending ones self to the death is not.
Pride is a sin, and yet having pride in one's work or accomplishments because they have striven hard to gain success is not.

Wrath or Anger are classified as one of the 7 deadly, and yet all faith's profile a higher power or god/deity, that examples wrath and anger, in their authority over creation.
Etc...regarding the other sins.

#2 in your list. (Human suffering, starvation, exploitation and pain would end)
They can end, just as they are applied by the human consciousness , one against the other, they can also be rendered null and void by our active participation in seeking to change those conditions, because they are all side effects of human greed, and selfishness. (yes, these too are also in the 7 deadly sins list. Don't you love the cyclical nature of it all!? ) God has nothing to do with generating these conditions in the human community. If one believes it does, then that is not a characteristic of a higher power that loves it's creation is it!?

3.)All the people burning in hell, would no longer be burning

Here's a clue. No one's burning! If you've ever tried to set a flame to smoke, or air, you'll get the visual on that one.
These are souls we're talking about. (Yet another human egoistic contrivance/myth). And besides that, if one believes god created the first angel (Lucifer - "light bringer"), and then this omniscient deity was surprised by the revolt of Luci and his followers and therefore cast them into a burning pit, is that really an example of an all knowing creator of all things (omni-genesis)? Or is it rather the greatest shell game ever perpetuated by the mentality of a sado/masochistic mentality posited within the human mind!? Come on now!


4.) the people in heaven could stop being so selfish.
The elitist concept of a "heaven" is selfish in the first place. Yet every religion holds to a concept of a glorious rewarding after-life. If we nullified the concept of god, there would be no further application for a concept of an rewarding after life.
If we honored our emotional processes, there would be no need to imagine a heaven or hell.


5)There would be nothing and that is better then a god who tortures and pampers
Think about that statement for a moment. A god that is the all power, creator of all things, knower of all things; tortures and pampers!? And we're suppose to pray and strive to live for eternity in the midst of that sado-masochist? What's the entertainment in heaven? Watching hades prisoners roast on realityTV?


6)Let the dead be dead
They are! If you want proof exhume a coffin that's been buried since 1962.



7)Peace at last
Ahhh, what a dream. And for that to happen, given it's human ego that makes war, you would have to nullify us.