O friends, no more these sounds! Let us sing more cheerful songs, more full of joy!

Joy, bright spark of divinity, Daughter of Elysium, Fire-inspired we tread Thy sanctuary. Thy magic power re-unites all that custom has divided; all men become brothers, under the sway of thy gentle wings.

Whoever has created an abiding friendship, Or has won A true and loving spouse, All who can call at least one soul theirs, Join our song of praise; But those who cannot must creep tearfully Away from our circle.

All creatures drink of joy at natures breast. Just and unjust Alike taste of her gift; She gave us kisses and the fruit of the vine, A tried friend to the end. Even the worm can feel contentment, and the cherub stands before God!

Gladly, like the heavenly bodies Which He sent on their courses through the splendor of the firmament; Thus, brothers, you should run your race, like a hero going to victory!

You millions, I embrace you. This kiss is for all the world! Brothers, above the starry canopy there must dwell a loving father.

Do you fall in worship, you millions? World, do you know your creator? Seek Him in the heavens; above the stars must he dwell.


My Webpage

Right...erm

Loge?

Is there a point to this thread?

It's Loge... when has there ever been a point?

What is the point?

Is not perhaps clasical music the work of those in heaven and Rock'n'roll the work of those in hell?

"Nobody has figured out what Beethoven meant by his Ninth Symphony. The result has been that every age and ideology has simply claimed the music for its own. Communists, Catholics, lefties, and reactionaries have joined in the chorus. A 1999 book by Esteban Buch, recently available in English, traces the course of the Ninth through history. It's been attached to European disunity in the form of nationalism, it got sucked into the Nazi cult of blood and race, and finally it became, with the Joy theme's adoption as the anthem of the European Union, a symbol of togetherness. Others have seen the Ninth as a universal human anthem. Leonard Bernstein conducted it at the international celebration of the fall of the Berlin Wall, and what else would do the job?

"For the composer's part, it's a good bet that Beethoven didn't intend for the Ninth to be precisely figured out. As with the Mona Lisa, maybe its very ambiguity is part of its success. Paint it any color you like, and it remains its exalted and inexplicable self. If you want universality in a work of art, here you are. One could argue that the best way of keeping the Ninth alive and fresh is not to pin it down but to embrace its mystery."

No. Music is the gift of the God's. Every kind and every variety a gift. Even country music.

Country Music is the gift from Ted Turner.. X)

Yes, Music is the gift of the God's! and NOISE the gift of Demons!

the CNN founder? i don't get it

It all depends on your tolerance of noise. I myself love the intricate and classical sound of the Guitar riff's in Mettallica's 'One'.
Infact the only noise I cannot stand is regae. Perhaps the rastah are evil

If you want to clean the evil mental vibrations of your home play the following samples:
My Webpage

(well at least we agree on music if not on gods )

Maybe this should have been in the music thread.....

Anyway, you should note that certain artists believe that music and sound are all the same thing - that is to say, that all sound is music.

To prove this point, performance artist John Cage composed a song - 4'33. Cage walked on stage, sat down at the piano, opened the lid, and sat there for 4 minutes, 33 seconds doing absolutely nothing, before closing the lid, standing and bowing, then finally walking off stage.

To him, the music was in the footsteps as he crossed the stage, the clunk of the piano lid as it swung open, the disbelieving whispers of the crowd, the sound of the traffic outside the concert hall, even the sound of his own breath...

All this to John Cage, was music.

I guess it depends on your point of view.

Until next time,

Modern music does not have harmony or authentic melody and it lacks precise rhythm as well. It is pure garbage!

Punk music is inharmonious, with strident sounds that are harmful for the psyche. It is pure garbage!

Ultramodern type of music harms the nervous system and alters all the organs of the human physiology. Such music does not keep any concordance with the melodies of the infinite. It is pure garbage!

Classical music vibrates with superior dimensions even with those beyond time and eternity!

You're a little off on your definition of music Loge. Harmony isn't a necessity to make proper music, you can place music in three different categories:

Monophony (The use of a single line of melody)
Homophony (Harmonized Melody, essentially chords outlining a melody...IE Harmony)
Polyphony (Two or more opposing lines of melody)
There are others but they fit into a smaller sub category of the above mentioned

So regardless or weather or not harmony is present is besides the point it wasn't even invented as a musical concept until the 18th century. That leaves out a vast array of composers who wrote beautiful music prior to the 18th century.

At any rate I would also disagree that modern music doesn't make use of harmony. It present in almost every song you'll encounter in 20th century music, rock music itself is based on the outlining of a melody over chord changes. It's essentially the backbone of all modern music.

As for "authentic melody" it really comes down to your interpretation of what melody is and weather or not it fits within the context of musical theory. But to dismiss every modern musician as lacking "authentic melody" is insulting and entirely untrue.

"In music, a melody is a series of linear events or a succession, not a simultaneity as in a chord. However, this succession must contain change of some kind and be perceived as a single entity (possibly gestalt) to be called a melody. Most specifically this includes patterns of changing pitches and durations, while most generally it includes any interacting patterns of changing events or quality. "Melody may be said to result where there are interacting patterns of changing events occurring in time." (DeLone et. al. (Eds.) 1975, p.270-1)

Hmm it would seem modern music fits the definition of melody. Weather or not you can hear the melody or think its good is your OPINION and your OPINION alone. I'm sorry you don't like modern day music, but hey if it's not your cup of tea than more power to you. But keep in mind it's simply your OPINION and nothing more.

As for being the music of the of the "devil" or "hell", I'm not even going to dignify with that with a response.

The sound waves of a cannon, its explosion, destroy the glass of a window. On the other hand, the sound waves of classical music put into activity certain inactive parts of our brain. But a rude and disharmonious music destroys brain capacities through anger, or melancholy, sadness, hatred, etc.....

There exists criminal music; there exists infamous music. The outcome of punk music hurts our psyche in an unconscious manner with disharmonic sounds and words. Punk music filled with ill-intended double meanings produce fornication, adultery, rape and many other disgusting things within the mind of those who listen to it.

Angry, lustful words together with degenerated music engender violence within the mind of those who listen to it.

One should select music as when one selects the food for their nourishment, because our brain nourishes also with sounds. Slander, gossip, and lies spread to punk music or any other degenerated music are filling the psyche of people with pain and bitterness.

It all depends on what you consider to be noise Loge, I find a lot of beauty in punk and all other forms of modern music. It just comes down to the way that we appreciate different sounds and they way they are put together, everybody reacts to music differently and one man's garbage can be another man's treasure. I personally find some classical music to be very abrasive, other pieces I find soothing and beautiful. The only tangible aspect we can discuss is weather or not the lyrics of said bands have an ill effect on our society. But the music in and of itself can't be placed in that broad of a category it leaves to much up to one's own opinion of what is ugly and what is beautiful.

Besides if all modern music is simply the sound of "hell" than how do we explain all of those really bad christian rock bands?

An interesting article I found.www.mindframe-media.info

Yes an interesting article Zandore. I would imagine however that it's not simply the music that is causing this, I think in most cases it's the lyrics. I also believe that some are drawn to certain types of music based on an already present mindset. For example if you are already morbidly depressed you may try to go out and find music to fit that state of mind, so is it fair to simply lump the suicide rates on the music alone or did the suicidal tendencies already exist in the first place? Which I think is what this article is actually trying to illustrate.

They worship God with rock music because they do not know how to create symphonic beautiful music like Handel’s Messiah for instance,


and also because they are fishing unbelievers with that disgusting bait!

Not just that head banging stuff either:www.collisiondetection.net

But Loge, the same could be said for secular bands as well, perhaps they don't have the musical training to write the kind of music they want. Or perhaps they just simply enjoy creating the kind of music that they write, that is the nice thing about modern music it's not beholden to the elite.

If it's okay for christian rock bands to produce that kind of "noise" than why not secular bands as well? Either it's the sounds of hell or it isn't, so which is it?

That's interesting Zandore I've never heard of the link between suicide and country music...but I suppose it makes sense if we imply that those commiting suicide have an inherent suicidal tendency. Especilly considering that country music in a lot of cases is the music of the working class where you do tend to find a high rate of suicide. Not to mention county music lyrics aren't the brightest, it's usually written from the prospective of the down trodden (or atleast classic country was).

Yeah I kind of chuckled when I heard it years ago. But suicide is not to be laughed at in any way.

I would rather listen to a fat man taking a dump, then country music.

Plop Plop (No fizz fizz)

such a link is not surprising. the direct link between the emotions of others experienced and oneself is well documented (no one wants to be around a depressed person because they are depressing!)

This is a great link that associates music and what is referred to as the "Motzart Effect"
There is a corrolation between Motzart's Piano Sonata in D major and an increased ability of students to improve scores in tests after listening to Motzart for half hour before the exam.

http://www.spiritualityhealth.com/newsh/it.../item_9733.html

You spoiled my punch line!

An excerpt ( from link provided above)
The Science of Music
Two hundred years after Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart’s birth, a French physician named Alfred Tomatis, M.D., began researching the connection between music and the brain. Of course, we don’t need science to tell us that music — and sound generally — influences our tempo and our behavior. But we didn’t really understand how it worked until Tomatis, often referred to as the “Einstein of sound” or “the Sherlock Holmes of sonic detection,” came along. Tomatis, who died in 2001, is credited with creating the field of music therapy, which has touched more than 100,000 head injury patients, mental health patients, and people with auditory and vocal disabilities. Over the course of decades of hands-on work, Tomatis discovered that certain melodies carried by certain frequencies stimulate the brain, helping it to develop speech and improve movement. He also came up with the theory that music is energy food for the brain, as well as an instrument for healing.

“A hidden and primary function of the ear is to charge the brain with electrical potential,” said Tomatis in an interview in Music: Physician for Times to Come, Campbell’s 1991 collection of essays by doctors, therapists, and musicians. “It’s thanks to the ear that external stimuli are able to charge the cortical battery.” He later applied this theory to listening to Mozart and many other forms of music, discovering that it “charged” the brain with stimuli that brought clarity and organization to the mind, improving its function and creating what became popularly known as “the Mozart Effect.”

Two years later, Tomatis’ theories were put to the test by researchers at the University of California at Irvine’s Center for the Neurobiology of Learning and Memory. These ground-breaking studies revealed that students’ scores on spatial IQ tests jumped significantly after 10 minutes of Mozart’s “Sonata for Two Pianos in D Major,” leading one of the researchers, Gordon Shaw, to conclude that Mozart’s music may “warm up” the brain. Shaw, a physicist, theorized that complex music facilitates complex neuronal processes associated with higher brain activities such as mathematics and chess. The researchers, Campbell said, likened the Mozart Effect to a “Rosetta stone for the ‘code’ or internal language” of higher brain function.

Further tests followed the Irvine experiments, including one that found that pattern recognition among students listening to Mozart improved 62 percent compared to students who listened to other kinds of music. Scientists expanded on their earlier theory about why the Mozart Effect works, proposing that the music organizes the firing patterns of neurons in the cerebral cortex, strengthening right-brain processes associated with spatial-temporal reasoning (higher-brain functioning).

Campbell, whose life work has been inspired by Tomatis, popularized these findings in his bestselling 1997 book, The Mozart Effect, showing the multiple ways in which different kinds of music can enhance learning and creativity — from our earliest perceptions in the womb (we become aware of high frequencies at five months). The research continues. For instance, music has been found to be stimulating to all forms of life, including plants and flowers. In one experiment, plants experienced exuberant growth when exposed to Indian sitar music; in contrast, plants in the rock-n-roll atrium withered on the vine.

Even four-legged friends respond to music. The latest breakthrough in music science came in April of last year, when geneticists at Stanford University uncovered the molecular basis for improved learning and memory while listening to Mozart — in rats. Rats hearing Mozart sonatas made use of higher levels of genes involved in stimulating and charging the connections between brain cells. The researchers hope to apply their research to music therapy to treat people suffering from Alzheimer’s as well as other neurological diseases.

A list of links:
healing.about.com/od/sound/

I think there is!

(About.com)
Music Therapy
Music and sounds can be incorporated into many types of healing modalities, such as meditation, massage, hypnosis, etc. Playing an instrument or listening to music in of itself has therapeutic benefits.
A list of links:
healing.about.com/od/sound/

Great link Zandore.
Thanks for sharing

No Problem
I might be tone deaf and hard of hearing but I still like some musical instruments.

Well I think that was beautiful Loge. And yes others may think music all kinds is of God. But just because God gives you the musical talent doesn't mean you use it to glorify God. It is like a person who can draw and paint if they only make pictures that our of sorrow and pain how is this glorifying God. The point I am making is we all have talents and all should be used to glorify God. This is because he gave them to us in the first place.

I don't think anybody is arguing that music does not have therapeutic qualities. But that's not the point of this thread is it? The point was classical music is a music of the "gods" while modern music is the music of "demons", there is simply to vast an array of music in each genre to make that kind of a blanket statement.

Music is designed to play on your emotions that's the inherent nature of the art. However for every classical piece that can lift you up there is another that can bring down to the depths of despair, the same can be said for modern music some can lift you up others can bring you down. It depends on the composer and the nature of the music they are composing not the genre they find themselves composing in.

We simply can't make a blanket statement like "classical music good, modern music bad", there's too many variables to take into account.

make a joy full noise !

tsk tsk tsk, we all know that country music is demonic, not modern day rock.

The point is that classical music is a music of "Gods"


while modern music is music of "demons"

And there is simply a vast array of music in each genre to make this kind of wise statement.

HHAHAHhaahahahah^^^^^ Man i love your pictures

Yes Michael Jackson is of the devil. I really don't like him and his voice is so annoying. I mean my voice is lower then his. lol.

You all have it wrong. "MUZAK" ( that noise found in elevators and shopping malls) is the music of the nether realm.

I love elevator music, it makes me want to jump in a mosh pit.

Really? How so? Simply posting a picture of Beethoven and Micheal Jackson does nothing to further the validity of your arguement.

But it was a good comparison!

Good one Loge

IMO, music is diminished (to put it nicely) when it is tainted with the human voice.

pure music can express its meaning clearly on its own without a narrative. in today's music, the narrative is an excuse to not make music (after all, they don't want real music when marketing to the masses - lcd prevails)

Interesting point Hyper!
Although I have to admit hearing Harry Chapin's Cat's in the Cradle makes my knees buckle and brings a tear to the eye

There is a person that I know who claims to see angels. This person tells me when they appear, they sing in the most beautiful voice and song. However, the language the angels use are not English. This person tells me that this is a language that they have never heard before in their life.

Most of the people that hear voices in their head are under some sort of mental health counseling.

Don’t sound’s waves penetrate the ear and go into the brain?

Therefore, everybody hears voices, sound, music, etc., within their heads!

This is why everybody even psychiatrists and psychologists in this planet need some sort of mental health!