Why could God not be a woman? Why do all the million masses follow Christianity, Islam, Judaism... so blindly? Why is questioning religions so rare?
What of those who litteraly follow the Bible and let that book completely guide their life? What if God is a lie? Created by man and not on contrary? Why are the histories behind religions not checked for authenticity more than they already are?
Where is the criticism???
I have no problem thinking in this perspective, because I'm no believer. But I'm no atheist either. I see myself as spiritual. And, as follows, being spiritual (to me) is not being religious.
So, just to slap you in the face as to awake you from life's routine, think of it. What if the religion you believed in and entrusted your fate in, something so grown into your mind and soul, was simply false? Can you think in that direction, or is dismissal the instant cure for such thougths?
Full Version: What IS God? And religion? True? Or a big lie?
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Where is the criticism???
Unless the forum has changed a great deal while I was away....everywhere
There are a great many people who don't put such blind and unthinking faith in millenia old ideals and mythologies. There was actually a thread very much like this some time ago...I can't honestly remember most of the answers put forward, but I would actually find myself very surprised, and to be honest worried in the extreme, if any of the juedo-christian religions weren't false. The god portrayed by them isn't the sort of guy I'd like to have behind the wheel.
I definataley agree. Yes, of course there is criticism, but it's hard to imply in the believer's minds.
QUOTE(AshKatNah @ May 22 2005, 07:37 AM)
Why could God not be a woman? Why do all the million masses follow Christianity, Islam, Judaism... so blindly? Why is questioning religions so rare?
What of those who litteraly follow the Bible and let that book completely guide their life? What if God is a lie? Created by man and not on contrary? Why are the histories behind religions not checked for authenticity more than they already are?
Where is the criticism???
I have no problem thinking in this perspective, because I'm no believer. But I'm no atheist either. I see myself as spiritual. And, as follows, being spiritual (to me) is not being religious.
So, just to slap you in the face as to awake you from life's routine, think of it. What if the religion you believed in and entrusted your fate in, something so grown into your mind and soul, was simply false? Can you think in that direction, or is dismissal the instant cure for such thougths?
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What of those who litteraly follow the Bible and let that book completely guide their life? What if God is a lie? Created by man and not on contrary? Why are the histories behind religions not checked for authenticity more than they already are?
Where is the criticism???
I have no problem thinking in this perspective, because I'm no believer. But I'm no atheist either. I see myself as spiritual. And, as follows, being spiritual (to me) is not being religious.
So, just to slap you in the face as to awake you from life's routine, think of it. What if the religion you believed in and entrusted your fate in, something so grown into your mind and soul, was simply false? Can you think in that direction, or is dismissal the instant cure for such thougths?
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if Christianity was proven false(which may not happen soon/never), you couldn't change this generation's thinking. most of us Christians have believed in Christianity for a long time or believe very strongly in it. by taking this religion away, youll have many people who will stand with their faith and not accept it doesn't exist(let's just say someone proved it didnt:)) youll have those who will become empty shells, finding out Someone they loved(known as God) isnt real. and of course youll have those that will accept it easily and move on.
I don't see how any religion could be proven "false".
Any religion (As long as no one is harmed in any way) that gives a person hope and something to believe in when it is needed is a good thing. Religion in one form or another will always be around.
QUOTE(Amalgamut Posted Today @ 02:38 PM )
I don't see how any religion could be proven "false".
Give it time and I think it will.
the trouble with gettin believers to see that religion may be false is the nature of belief itself i.e. it requires no rationality - that is wot faith is.
i'm afraid we can all sit here and discuss the problems with faith until we're blue in the face and to peeps that don't believ it will all seem perfectly plausible and our logic will be flawless.
However, the peeps ur really tying to convince, the believers, won't give a damn simply because belief will always be belief and no logic (no matter how well evidenced) will ever persuade them otherwise...
i'm afraid we can all sit here and discuss the problems with faith until we're blue in the face and to peeps that don't believ it will all seem perfectly plausible and our logic will be flawless.
However, the peeps ur really tying to convince, the believers, won't give a damn simply because belief will always be belief and no logic (no matter how well evidenced) will ever persuade them otherwise...
QUOTE(zandore @ May 22 2005, 12:42 PM)
QUOTE(Amalgamut Posted Today @ 02:38 PM )
I don't see how any religion could be proven "false".
Give it time and I think it will.[right][snapback]634580[/snapback][/right]
But how?
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ May 22 2005, 02:49 PM)
QUOTE(zandore @ May 22 2005, 12:42 PM)
QUOTE(Amalgamut Posted Today @ 02:38 PM )
I don't see how any religion could be proven "false".
Give it time and I think it will.[right][snapback]634580[/snapback][/right]
But how?
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Don't you think if I knew how........
QUOTE(zandore @ May 22 2005, 12:58 PM)
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ May 22 2005, 02:49 PM)
QUOTE(zandore @ May 22 2005, 12:42 PM)
QUOTE(Amalgamut Posted Today @ 02:38 PM )
I don't see how any religion could be proven "false".
Give it time and I think it will.[right][snapback]634580[/snapback][/right]
But how?
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Don't you think if I knew how........
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Are you hiding something from us zandore?
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ May 22 2005, 10:38 AM)
I don't see how any religion could be proven "false".
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any logic faults can certianly be proven. any inconsistancies can certianly be demonstrated.
now if a religion makes a claim fundamental to structure and evidence/logic show the claim incorrect then in essence the religion has been shown false. (of course beleivers will never accept such heresy, so instead we get "1000 interpretations" to try and throw attention off the errors)
By believing in it, people make religion alive and standing. That's the paradox in all this...
I never said Christianity has to be proven false. But I want you guys to try placing yourselves in another perspective. To play a game called "what if...?", if you will. What if...there's no God? What then? Can you imagine that at all? I think most of you WANT to believe, for some reason or the other.
And yes, religion is good by giving many people hope and meaning. But religion tends to imprison people more than it helps. (Religion vs faith?)
Take missionaries by the way. They force their religion on, among other, "primitive" people to civilize them. Is that fair? No, those people should be... I don't know. Brainwashing people (because it is exactly what they do) is simply wrong.
Baptists are the only Christians I can respect will sincerity since they only baptize adults and do not force their religion upon anyone.
I never said Christianity has to be proven false. But I want you guys to try placing yourselves in another perspective. To play a game called "what if...?", if you will. What if...there's no God? What then? Can you imagine that at all? I think most of you WANT to believe, for some reason or the other.
And yes, religion is good by giving many people hope and meaning. But religion tends to imprison people more than it helps. (Religion vs faith?)
Take missionaries by the way. They force their religion on, among other, "primitive" people to civilize them. Is that fair? No, those people should be... I don't know. Brainwashing people (because it is exactly what they do) is simply wrong.
Baptists are the only Christians I can respect will sincerity since they only baptize adults and do not force their religion upon anyone.
QUOTE(Amalgamut Posted Today @ 03:11 PM )
Are you hiding something from us zandore?
Nothing that I have not said previously. 
QUOTE(AshKatNah Posted Today @ 03:17 PM )
Baptists are the only Christians I can respect will sincerity since they only baptize adults and do not force their religion upon anyone.
For the most part I agree with you but there are extremist even among them. If you want PM me and I will tell you of a very disturbing web site about Southern Baptists. I can not nor will I post a link for it. The MODs will remove it ASAP!
yes, religion can be a surrogate parent and provide hope and faith lacking elsewhere.
however, an enlightened person does not carry the baggage of insecurity and finds hope and faith with him/herself and his/her part of the whole.
however, an enlightened person does not carry the baggage of insecurity and finds hope and faith with him/herself and his/her part of the whole.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 22 2005, 03:26 PM)
yes, religion can be a surrogate parent and provide hope and faith lacking elsewhere.
however, an enlightened person does not carry the baggage of insecurity and finds hope and faith with him/herself and his/her part of the whole.
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however, an enlightened person does not carry the baggage of insecurity and finds hope and faith with him/herself and his/her part of the whole.
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Exactly
Say we answer what if questions all our life. I have not asked a what if about God but I have about the things that have happened in my life. For instance what if my brother wouldn't habve died. Well the answer is we don't know but God has allowed these things to happen in our lives. We all have a Time card. And when we check in(our birthday) and when we check out(death or rapture) is up to God. Religion can't be asked what if's because then we would have no faith.
Faith is a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
So how can we ask these what if's unless we have no faith.
Faith is a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
So how can we ask these what if's unless we have no faith.
QUOTE(101 @ May 22 2005, 11:39 AM)
Say we answer what if questions all our life. I have not asked a what if about God but I have about the things that have happened in my life. For instance what if my brother wouldn't habve died. Well the answer is we don't know but God has allowed these things to happen in our lives. We all have a Time card. And when we check in(our birthday) and when we check out(death or rapture) is up to God. Religion can't be asked what if's because then we would have no faith.
Faith is a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
So how can we ask these what if's unless we have no faith.
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Faith is a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny.
So how can we ask these what if's unless we have no faith.
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here is a what if for you:
what if rupert reid (1976) is correct in his hypothesis that the quanity of information in the universe is constant, at approx 10^91 bits. thus the universe could be totally knowable after asking 10^91 yes/no questions!
the super in natural is the irrational winning over the rational.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 22 2005, 11:47 AM)
here is a what if for you:
what if rupert reid (1976) is correct in his hypothesis that the quanity of information in the universe is constant, at approx 10^91 bits. thus the universe could be totally knowable after asking 10^91 yes/no questions!
the super in natural is the irrational winning over the rational.
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howd he get 10^91 bits of info? people gotta have a lot of time on their hands!
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 22 2005 @ 11:47 AM)
the super in natural is the irrational winning over the rational.
Look what I put in my SIG QUOTE(My SIG)
"every religion appears to be superstition to all other religions. I would add, all religions are superstitions, to all rational human beings."
QUOTE(TaintedDoughnuts @ May 23 2005, 05:27 AM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 22 2005, 11:47 AM)
here is a what if for you:
what if rupert reid (1976) is correct in his hypothesis that the quanity of information in the universe is constant, at approx 10^91 bits. thus the universe could be totally knowable after asking 10^91 yes/no questions!
the super in natural is the irrational winning over the rational.
[right][snapback]634755[/snapback][/right]
howd he get 10^91 bits of info? people gotta have a lot of time on their hands!
[right][snapback]635244[/snapback][/right]
True.
QUOTE(TaintedDoughnuts @ May 22 2005, 09:27 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 22 2005, 11:47 AM)
here is a what if for you:
what if rupert reid (1976) is correct in his hypothesis that the quanity of information in the universe is constant, at approx 10^91 bits. thus the universe could be totally knowable after asking 10^91 yes/no questions!
the super in natural is the irrational winning over the rational.
[right][snapback]634755[/snapback][/right]
howd he get 10^91 bits of info? people gotta have a lot of time on their hands!
[right][snapback]635244[/snapback][/right]
especially those that just put time into reciting the same old texts time and again as if saying them often enough will make it come true!
"i wish i was in kansas, i wish i was in kansas, i wish i was in kansas"......
QUOTE(hyperactive Posted Yesterday @ 10:23 PM )
"i wish i was in kansas, i wish i was in kansas, i wish i was in kansas"......
Follow the yellow brick road!
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Follow the yellow brick road!
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Why could God not be a woman?
In my faith she is.
Then again faith is subjective isn't it?! I think people believe because, quite frankly, they are afraid not to because then they would have to face the irrevocable truth that flesh dies. While all else after that is supposition, imagination, superstition, etc... no one knows what happens after we die. That is the premise that supports the application faith in an after life. I also believe, relative to your initial posting/questions, that god/goddess, is a subjective metaphor. With all respect to the Christian faith, if one reads the bible not as a proclamation by a higher power (penned by the chosen), but as a literary work, and note all of the personalities attributed to god, (jealous, vengeful, murderous, blood thirsty, egoistic, etc...), they might realize that these "qualities" are not representative of a higher conscious to humankind, but rather a parallel to it.
Then to bow oneself to the authority posited in those stories, via the clergy that presumes a mantel of supervising the mortal flesh under governance of the precepts of a faith dedicated to a god consciousness, who's personality parallels that of human kind, and live in fear of that god concept , yet in accord to placating it's demands by praying and surrendering unto it's "will", is an example of the human personality disorders found in abusive relationships generally (spousal or other), as well as the personality afforded enablers of abuse. This too is a profile of fear and is representative of the mortal mentality, rather than anything that could represent itself as a higher consciousness, or the attributes afforded Deity. (Omnipotent, omniscient, etc...)
This observation applies to all religions btw and in my personal opinion. That's why there is a vast difference between organized religion and spirituality.
I think people, by nature, need something to believe in. It's difficult for the human consciousness to grasp they are no better than anything else alive in their world, nor are they destined to experience anything other than the end of that existence , when their time comes.
If one looks to nature and the animals, who are said to not possess souls, (probably because it's hard to envision proselytizing to squirrels
) , we can see what life is like for those who live in the moment and that fully accept their beingness on an objective platform. I think that's why , though my people (witches) refer to their "faith" as a nature religion, that we are in truth no different than any other Deist.
And I believe even atheists have a faith. The faith that there is nothing super-natural, invigorating, inspiring or manifesting existence.
It is a great elitist ego that formulates the notion something other worldly and unseen, gives a damn about us or our reality.
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