hyperactive
May 28 2005, 11:44 PM
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ May 28 2005, 03:41 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 28 2005, 05:40 PM)
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ May 28 2005, 03:39 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 28 2005, 03:42 PM)
and islam is the "perfection" of christianity.
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Islam is a joke.
The Jews will even tell you this.
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well, then you just admitted that christianity is a joke!
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Ummm... no
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step back and see the whole picture!
as the family of abrahamic religions, they are either all a joke or none are a joke!
you can not cut off islam without cutting off yourself. sort of like cutting of your nose to spite your face!!!
you are funny! as i have suggested to you before: look at the entire picture rather than just the christiocentric view of the universe!
Amalgamut
May 29 2005, 12:03 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 28 2005, 05:44 PM)
step back and see the whole picture!
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Believe me sir, I have done this.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 28 2005, 05:44 PM)
as the family of abrahamic religions, they are either all a joke or none are a joke!
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Islam is the "joke." Judaism is not, however they did not recognize Jesus as the Christ, but this is because Jesus did not give them what they wanted. They wanted more, so they reject the idea. They rejected the truth. They broke their covenant with God.
Now, correct me if I am wrong, the Muslims do not believe there will ever be a "son of God."
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 28 2005, 05:44 PM)
you can not cut off islam without cutting off yourself.
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Ok, and tell me why this is? Remember, Islam came from Christianity, not the other way around.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 28 2005, 05:44 PM)
you are funny! as i have suggested to you before: look at the entire picture rather than just the christiocentric view of the universe!
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I have done this. I have looked at all three pictures. Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
Islam is a corruption to the word.
hyperactive
May 29 2005, 12:13 AM
taken historically, and with the concept of continuity in mind:
the only corruption was the false proclamaition of a man as a god!
it violates everything of there being one god!
and by the big picture... i mean a few steps farther back than just the trilogy.
everything has its place... the evolution of human constructs....
everything runs in cycles.... including the rise and fall of periods of man's history...
the trilogy crosses one such gap, but only paints but a very small part of the picture.
the worship of a man is a throwback to the most primative of belief systems. christianity does so becuase of the timing of its founding. there are far greater forces at work than those of a carpenter born 2000 years ago.
you never answer if you just want to debate these topics or not.... at least then we would have a finality to it, and a judge to oversee it..... oh well.... i withdraw my offer to debate you formally on this.
Amalgamut
May 29 2005, 12:28 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ May 28 2005, 06:13 PM)
you never answer if you just want to debate these topics or not.... at least then we would have a finality to it, and a judge to oversee it..... oh well.... i withdraw my offer to debate you formally on this.
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Sorry, I wasn't sure what you meant by "debate formally" in the first place.
JMPD1
Jun 1 2005, 04:59 PM
I find the string of logic confusing.
"Judiaism did not recognize the Nazarene, so they are wrong.
Islam, recognizes him, but as a human prophet, so they are wrong.
Christianity recognizes him as a god, so they are right."
The three religions are branches from the same bush, but two are wrong and one is right. Christians eat pork while the others have a restriction. I don't recall christ giving special dispensation to eat pork. Of the three, the christian belief system makes the least sense.
And, if people admitted that it was written by men, for men, I'd have a hell of a lot more respect for it as a teaching tool. But when the words and terms of the text are constantly inconstant, it resolves itself as mere fiction, in my humble opinion.
Amalgamut
Jun 1 2005, 09:55 PM
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 1 2005, 10:59 AM)
I find the string of logic confusing.
"Judiaism did not recognize the Nazarene, so they are wrong.
Islam, recognizes him, but as a human prophet, so they are wrong.
Christianity recognizes him as a god, so they are right."
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I don't think Judaism is wrong. I think that many Jews believe in the Christ. However, many do not. Jews are God's people. There are Jews that are known as "complete". This means that they believe in Jesus as the Christ.
Islam recognizes them yes, however they say that Jesus is only "half right" in his teachings.
Signs of the trinity go back into the OT. In Genesis we even see a hint of God's plan of redemption.
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 1 2005, 10:59 AM)
The three religions are branches from the same bush, but two are wrong and one is right.
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Judaism is the father of both religions. I do not dislike Jews. I respect them greatfully. However, they do not believe that Jesus is the Son. The only one out of the three that is completly wrong, in my opinion,is Islam. They take the word of God and twist it. All because of one man named Muhammud. The Jews don't even recognize Muhammud, now what does that tell you?
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 1 2005, 10:59 AM)
Of the three, the christian belief system makes the least sense.
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Tell me why this is. Is it because they believe that Jesus was the son?
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 1 2005, 10:59 AM)
And, if people admitted that it was written by men, for men, I'd have a hell of a lot more respect for it as a teaching tool. But when the words and terms of the text are constantly inconstant, it resolves itself as mere fiction, in my humble opinion.
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I seriously doubt men would have written this book if they were not under divine inspiration. The bible and words from it are not simple one liners, they have meaning and they do not contradict. But, we are all intitled to our own opinions.
pallidin
Jun 1 2005, 10:38 PM
It's funny how the admonishments of "ALLAH" in the Koran directly mimic's the strange, perhaps bi-polar ramblings of Mohammed.
JMPD1
Jun 1 2005, 11:16 PM
So, only divine inspiration is accountable for the creation of a set of moral laws.
Hmm, I guess the Magna Charta, the US Constitution, the Declaration of Independance, etal, were all written by the hand of god.
Because, obviously, humans cannot possibly conceive of these sets and codes of conduct on how to live.
Amalgamut
Jun 2 2005, 12:35 AM
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 1 2005, 05:16 PM)
So, only divine inspiration is accountable for the creation of a set of moral laws.
Hmm, I guess the Magna Charta, the US Constitution, the Declaration of Independance, etal, were all written by the hand of god.
Because, obviously, humans cannot possibly conceive of these sets and codes of conduct on how to live.
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I dont think that the "Magna Carta" and the "Us Constitution" were written under the divinity of God.
These were the beliefs of men that established a written law according to their beliefs.
hyperactive
Jun 2 2005, 01:23 AM
amal:
you dislike islam, yet you don't seem to really understand it. you speak of twisting the words, yet look at christianity. christianity is so twisted up and warped not even a god could set the record straight!
Amalgamut
Jun 2 2005, 04:20 PM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 1 2005, 07:23 PM)
amal:
you dislike islam, yet you don't seem to really understand it. you speak of twisting the words, yet look at christianity. christianity is so twisted up and warped not even a god could set the record straight!
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Yeah, so you're telling me that God sent an image to a 40 year old man to "fix" the word. Please..
Also, this man had what....9 wives at the time of his death? But I thought God doesn't want us to have more than one wife?
Funny, Judaism seems to believe in monogamy. Christianity the same. What about Islam? Doesn't seem like it huh....
Even so, if Islam is against polygamy, then Muhammud was a hypocrite. Plain and simple, and he didn't practice what he preached. Now, you tell me how credible of a source that would be...
hyperactive
Jun 2 2005, 06:48 PM
well clarify for me how this is not a "double standard":
a man (muhammad), is judged by you for being a man, must therefore not be worthy of delivering a message from this god. you argue his actions deem him unfit? do not forget islam allowed the taking of many wives to allow for widows and children to be cared for. it was a social purpose, not a personal one.
all other prophets that walked the earth prior to jesus you accept as the line of prophets, yet they too were but men, capable of impurity and error.
jesus, yet another man, you accept as somehow being a perfect being.
Lordgalyan
Jun 2 2005, 06:59 PM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 02:48 PM)
well clarify for me how this is not a "double standard":
a man (muhammad), is judged by you for being a man, must therefore not be worthy of delivering a message from this god. you argue his actions deem him unfit? do not forget islam allowed the taking of many wives to allow for widows and children to be cared for. it was a social purpose, not a personal one.
all other prophets that walked the earth prior to jesus you accept as the line of prophets, yet they too were but men, capable of impurity and error.
jesus, yet another man, you accept as somehow being a perfect being.
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Very well put.
Lordgalyan
Jun 2 2005, 07:35 PM
QUOTE(SRIHeidiL @ May 26 2005, 05:10 PM)
Very interesting post!
I think it all comes down to (as always) people's knowledge of and belief in, the Bible.
I am a believer now, but wasn't most of my life. I didn't get the Bible at all, but in time and in reading it, I do now.
This is the perspective from someone who believes in the Bible...
the word "coven" is not used in the Bible, therefore, we cannot use our own words or definitions regarding it.
"Coven" is referred to as "an assembly of 13 witches" by most dictionaries. Jesus was God- not a witch. The others were men, not witches. So we can't really say they were a coven.
Jesus performed miracles, according to the Bible. He was God- the Creator of everything (according to my beliefs). He did not use incantations- he just touched people and told them to "rise" or "do you believe? then see...". Because He was God. People who practice Wicca think they get their "power" from words, books, and some force that is not the God that is spoken of in the Bible. That, it says, is "magic". Witches use spells, Jesus (God) used nothing but Himself.
Moses used a staff to part water, because he was doing deeds for God- he was freeing a people that God promised to deliver freedom. It wasn't Moses, but he called on God to do that. But again, it isnt seen as magic, because it is from the Creator, the Father.
Again, this is just based on my beliefs, and the Christian beliefs.
I have friends who are Wiccan, so please dont take this as me bashing anyone else- I am just answering where we come from.
Its so hard when someone doesnt know or believe in the Bible- because it cannot be proven until death or the end of time. Thats why it is called "faith".
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Ok, you believe what you read just as my post started.
There are allot of things not in the BiBle, does not mean they are not so.
The MAN who wrote the bible put words in it that he interpreted.
How do you know he was not a witch? How many people come up to you and say hey I am a witch?
In your eyes what constitutes a God?
What is the difference between miracles and magic?
Moses was doing deeds for God as your local Priest or Preacher. So I am guessing there is no specific reason for a Priest or preacher to demand you give money if you believe because he could just make it appear and help god's children with there needs!
These things are based on my beliefs.
I also know an individual that is a witch and has been for 25 years and 28 years before that a diehard Christian. Grew up with a father who is a preacher, a house hold that was absolutely God fearing. This person played the organ a church the works. This person believes that there was a person called Jesus. Is he what you believe he is (my opinion probably not) did do things probably yes.
I have read my share of the bible and again it is what you want to interpret it as.
I believe I should live to be 125 years old and still be able to dance and chase my 131 year old wife around the bed. Can I try and make this happen sure.
One thing I can tell you is it will not be because of Jesus if I make it.
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 04:47 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 12:48 PM)
a man (muhammad), is judged by you for being a man, must therefore not be worthy of delivering a message from this god. you argue his actions deem him unfit?
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The Jews do not recognize Muhammud as a prophet. This alone is a factor.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 12:48 PM)
do not forget islam allowed the taking of many wives to allow for widows and children to be cared for. it was a social purpose, not a personal one.
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Then Muhammud did not practice what he preached. Last time I checked the Torah and the Bible are strictly against polygamy. Islam did come from Christianity, and if the Koran does say its "ok" to practice polygamy, then Muhammud changed the words completely.
And please tell me you arent that naive as to thinking men had many wives to "care for children."
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 12:48 PM)
all other prophets that walked the earth prior to jesus you accept as the line of prophets, yet they too were but men, capable of impurity and error.
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Muhammud was not a true prophet. Judaism and Christianity do not accept him, yet Judaism basically has the same beliefs as Muslims. So, the question arises, why isnt Muhammud recognized by Jews or Christians? Simple, he was false. This is exactly what Jesus Christ warned about in his teachings.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 12:48 PM)
jesus, yet another man, you accept as somehow being a perfect being.
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Jesus was the son of God.
hyperactive
Jun 3 2005, 04:59 AM
it is far more believable that muhammad was a prophet than jesus was a god (looking at this without any bias towards any of the religions).
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 05:15 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 10:59 PM)
it is far more believable that muhammad was a prophet than jesus was a god (looking at this without any bias towards any of the religions).
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Yes, but by believing that Muhammad was a true prophet, then in turn you are believing in God.
hyperactive
Jun 3 2005, 05:17 AM
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ Jun 2 2005, 09:15 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 10:59 PM)
it is far more believable that muhammad was a prophet than jesus was a god (looking at this without any bias towards any of the religions).
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Yes, but by believing that Muhammad was a true prophet, then in turn you are believing in God.
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well, i don't view him as a prophet, but like all the other "prophets", i view him as a philosopher and a man.
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 05:18 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 1 2005, 07:23 PM)
amal:
you dislike islam, yet you don't seem to really understand it. you speak of twisting the words, yet look at christianity. christianity is so twisted up and warped not even a god could set the record straight!
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Christianity is not a twist to the word. Its the completion of it. (Judaism)
Islam is neither the true word of God, nor any form of completion. I believe it was a weak attempt that Satan did to try and counterfeit Christianity, to lead more believers astray.
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 05:21 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 11:17 PM)
well, i don't view him as a prophet, but like all the other "prophets", i view him as a philosopher and a man.
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I see Muhammud an abomination to the word of God.
hyperactive
Jun 3 2005, 05:21 AM
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ Jun 2 2005, 09:18 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 1 2005, 07:23 PM)
amal:
you dislike islam, yet you don't seem to really understand it. you speak of twisting the words, yet look at christianity. christianity is so twisted up and warped not even a god could set the record straight!
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Christianity is not a twist to the word. Its the completion of it. (Judaism)
Islam is neither the true word of God, nor any form of completion. I believe it was a weak attempt that Satan did to try and counterfeit Christianity, to lead more believers astray.
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so islam is now the satanic religion? hmmm...
i wonder if people also think the same of christianity wrt judaism? answer: yes!
so what have we learned, boy and girls?
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 05:32 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 11:21 PM)
so islam is now the satanic religion? hmmm...
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I never said it was Satanic. I said I thought that Satan used a man to try and twist the word. A Muslim is not a devil worshipper, they just are mislead.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 11:21 PM)
i wonder if people also think the same of christianity wrt judaism? answer: yes!
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Yes, but this would be foolish.
By saying Judaism and Christianity were "Satanic" it would only be calling youself a devil worshipper. Hence Islam worships the same God as the Jews and Christianity. And Islam came from both religions.
hyperactive
Jun 3 2005, 05:36 AM
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ Jun 2 2005, 09:32 PM)
Yes, but this would be foolish.
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only from your side of the fence....
the trinity of the abrahamic religions have so much in common, yet bicker over so little. reminds me of so much human behavior.
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 05:55 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 11:36 PM)
only from your side of the fence....
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No, its just simple common sense.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 11:36 PM)
the trinity of the abrahamic religions have so much in common, yet bicker over so little. reminds me of so much human behavior.
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I usually only express my thoughts towards Islam when the situation arises when I need to defend my faith. When the finger gets pointed, I point the finger back.
hyperactive
Jun 3 2005, 05:58 AM
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ Jun 2 2005, 09:55 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 11:36 PM)
only from your side of the fence....
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No, its just simple common sense.
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have you ever been up in a plane?
you can not see the whole lanscape from the ground, nor can you see the whole mythological picture from "bibleland".
in other words, every other religion will say the same thing as you in defence of itself.
it is not common sense... it is nonsense!
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 06:25 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 2 2005, 11:58 PM)
have you ever been up in a plane?
you can not see the whole lanscape from the ground, nor can you see the whole mythological picture from "bibleland".
in other words, every other religion will say the same thing as you in defence of itself.
it is not common sense... it is nonsense!
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I was referring to the abrahamic religions. The one that makes most sense, and fits prophecy, is Christianity.
To me this is common sense, to someone else it may not be. Its my opinion, just like yours.
Lordgalyan
Jun 3 2005, 11:52 AM
Question?
If I worship different Gods than Judaism and Christianity and I get comfort from theses Gods and live a good life.
I have peace in my life and these Gods make me feel secure and I don't worry about a Devil or Satan because I don't believe they exist.
Dose this make me any less a good person than the people that worship the God of Judaism and Christianity?
hyperactive
Jun 3 2005, 12:03 PM
QUOTE
I was referring to the abrahamic religions. The one that makes most sense, and fits prophecy, is Christianity.
again, whether or not something fits these prophecies depends on interpretation, and as of yet many have not even come close to happening. How can you say one fits prophecy better when the prophecies are not fulfilled?
as has been said many times, christians have beleived for 2000 years the end of the world was imminant. an awful lot of christians died never seeing this prohecy come true. "if you say it often enough, and for as long as you can" then either you will claim you were correct when something does happen or the religion will be gone. it is a no-lose scenario for the prophecy makers.
JMPD1
Jun 3 2005, 12:27 PM
And, it is so easy to claim "end of the world", and when it doesn't happen to then state that 'the prophecies were not fulfilled'.
Some of you may remember an American televangelist from about 15 years ago claiming that god spoke to him, saying that he was going to 'be called to heaven' if he didn't raise 1 million dollars for god by a certain date. Of course, a massive fund raiser was begun, and monies collected to prevent the preachers demise. I wasn't the least bit surprised, when at the 11th hour, an 'anonymous' donor, sent a check to cover the difference between what was collected and the goal. Needless to say, god didn't claim his victim.
theomegacode
Jun 3 2005, 02:43 PM
The "magic" Jesus did are considered miracles. And with the apostles thing, there might have been 13 apostles, making a total of fourteen. I don't remember where I read that, but it's somewhere.
Lordgalyan
Jun 3 2005, 08:27 PM
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 3 2005, 08:27 AM)
And, it is so easy to claim "end of the world", and when it doesn't happen to then state that 'the prophecies were not fulfilled'.
Some of you may remember an American televangelist from about 15 years ago claiming that god spoke to him, saying that he was going to 'be called to heaven' if he didn't raise 1 million dollars for god by a certain date. Of course, a massive fund raiser was begun, and monies collected to prevent the preachers demise. I wasn't the least bit surprised, when at the 11th hour, an 'anonymous' donor, sent a check to cover the difference between what was collected and the goal. Needless to say, god didn't claim his victim.
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So when he was not picked up by God did he return all the monies? I think not.
pallidin
Jun 3 2005, 09:46 PM
QUOTE(Lordgalyan @ Jun 3 2005, 05:52 AM)
Question?
If I worship different Gods than Judaism and Christianity and I get comfort from theses Gods and live a good life.
I have peace in my life and these Gods make me feel secure and I don't worry about a Devil or Satan because I don't believe they exist.
Dose this make me any less a good person than the people that worship the God of Judaism and Christianity?
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"Less of a good person"? By no means. If your perspective on religion advocates peace and love, I would say that you are a better person.
pallidin
Jun 3 2005, 09:47 PM
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 3 2005, 06:27 AM)
And, it is so easy to claim "end of the world", and when it doesn't happen to then state that 'the prophecies were not fulfilled'.
Some of you may remember an American televangelist from about 15 years ago claiming that god spoke to him, saying that he was going to 'be called to heaven' if he didn't raise 1 million dollars for god by a certain date. Of course, a massive fund raiser was begun, and monies collected to prevent the preachers demise. I wasn't the least bit surprised, when at the 11th hour, an 'anonymous' donor, sent a check to cover the difference between what was collected and the goal. Needless to say, god didn't claim his victim.
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Yeah, how twisted, sick and greedy is that!
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 10:04 PM
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 3 2005, 06:27 AM)
And, it is so easy to claim "end of the world", and when it doesn't happen to then state that 'the prophecies were not fulfilled'.
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And? How can a prophecy be fulfilled only half way? Simple, it can't.
QUOTE(JMPD1 @ Jun 3 2005, 06:27 AM)
Some of you may remember an American televangelist from about 15 years ago claiming that god spoke to him, saying that he was going to 'be called to heaven' if he didn't raise 1 million dollars for god by a certain date. Of course, a massive fund raiser was begun, and monies collected to prevent the preachers demise. I wasn't the least bit surprised, when at the 11th hour, an 'anonymous' donor, sent a check to cover the difference between what was collected and the goal. Needless to say, god didn't claim his victim.
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Well, then this man was a fake.
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 10:14 PM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 06:03 AM)
QUOTE
I was referring to the abrahamic religions. The one that makes most sense, and fits prophecy, is Christianity.
again, whether or not something fits these prophecies depends on interpretation,
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If you are Jewish, then yes you would say this.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 06:03 AM)
and as of yet many have not even come close to happening. How can you say one fits prophecy better when the prophecies are not fulfilled?
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Christ has fit many prophecies of the bible. "My Son shall arise from egypt" and "He will crush your head..." are a few. Jesus fits these prophecies.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 06:03 AM)
as has been said many times, christians have beleived for 2000 years the end of the world was imminant.
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It is imminant. It will occur.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 06:03 AM)
an awful lot of christians died never seeing this prohecy come true. "if you say it often enough, and for as long as you can" then either you will claim you were correct when something does happen or the religion will be gone. it is a no-lose scenario for the prophecy makers.
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No. The end of times will be from the process of Tribulation.
First of all, there is very little prophecy can happen prior to the Rapture. Once you see a mass disappearance of people, and the rise of a ruler that nobody has ever seen before, you will know prophecy is being fulfilled.
The end of the world will not happen prior to the rapture. The Rapture happens first.
The end of days will not be triggered untill the Rapture.
There will be another great Christian revival of people that will preach "the end of days are soon!" This will be huge. However, it is when they say "he is coming" Jesus will not come. Whenever they least expect it, the Rapture will happend and the earth will be put on a clock for 10 1/2 years (many people think it is 7 1/2).
hyperactive
Jun 3 2005, 10:56 PM
you keep convincing yourself of that amal.
i am sure long after your time is up (no offence), there will be another like you adapting the prophecies to fit his/her times as well!
and so it goes, and goes, and goes....
seems sort of like a game of ring around the rosie..... ashes to ashes, we all fall down.
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 11:08 PM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 04:56 PM)
you keep convincing yourself of that amal.
i am sure long after your time is up (no offence), there will be another like you adapting the prophecies to fit his/her times as well!
and so it goes, and goes, and goes....
seems sort of like a game of ring around the rosie..... ashes to ashes, we all fall down.
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Indeed, however the prophecy will stay the same. And the same things will need to occur prior to the end of days.
Ashes too ashes indeed. What do I have to lose in believing in a religion? If I am wrong ,then we are dead and it wont matter anyway....what we did while we are living would be insignificant.
hyperactive
Jun 3 2005, 11:15 PM
yes, the infinitly mutatable prophecy will remain awaiting more people to warp it to fit the days events. why not, nothing wrong with continuing 2000 years of tradition.
now what if you are right about some being(s) awaiting humans upon death, and they are displeased with people worshipping a man named jesus?
you could be right about an afterlife, and also be so very very wrong about it.
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 11:20 PM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 05:15 PM)
yes, the infinitly mutatable prophecy will remain awaiting more people to warp it to fit the days events. why not, nothing wrong with continuing 2000 years of tradition.
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Yeah, I suppose you are right.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 05:15 PM)
now what if you are right about some being(s) awaiting humans upon death, and they are displeased with people worshipping a man named jesus?
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Well, if this happens then I guess I am in trouble. However, I don't think they would care too much. I still recognize the Father. Jesus is the Son.
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 05:15 PM)
you could be right about an afterlife, and also be so very very wrong about it.
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Yes, and you worship nothing. Now tell me...who do you think they would be more upset with.
hyperactive
Jun 3 2005, 11:23 PM
simple...
if something is upset that i did not become its doormat i have no use for it.
Amalgamut
Jun 3 2005, 11:25 PM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 05:23 PM)
simple...
if something is upset that i did not become its doormat i have no use for it.
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God doesn't ask you to become his "doormat."
hyperactive
Jun 3 2005, 11:38 PM
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ Jun 3 2005, 03:25 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 05:23 PM)
simple...
if something is upset that i did not become its doormat i have no use for it.
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God doesn't ask you to become his "doormat."
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your right.
he demands it! with threats of eternal suffering for non-compliance!
TaintedDoughnuts
Jun 4 2005, 04:18 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 04:38 PM)
your right.
he demands it! with threats of eternal suffering for non-compliance!
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if God demanded it, wouldn't He have already taken control of your body and forcefully make you post "GOD IS GREAT!!! YOU WILL ALL WORSHIP HIM!!!!" on every thread of this forum?
also, it's not God's fault your eternally damned for not believing in Him. its YOURS, plain and simple. you chose not to believe. God didn't choose for you. you chose to argue against Him. God didn't choose that.
hyperactive
Jun 4 2005, 04:24 AM
ok.... i will get right on throwing support behind the mystical sky tyrant whose only power is manipulating the fears of the ignorant!
control me? he can't even get a handle on his supposedly arch enemy the devil... he can not manage to kill off all the unchosen. he can not even finish his appocalypse without coming down here to personally slaughter people.
biblegod is just one of many gods that has come and gone. such is the way with human constructs. he can not force me to do anything because the truth is he is powerless without you empowering him.
to read the teachings of the monotheistic religions.... well lets just say i find more integrity in the satan character.
pallidin
Jun 5 2005, 12:15 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 10:24 PM)
ok.... i will get right on throwing support behind the mystical sky tyrant whose only power is manipulating the fears of the ignorant!
control me? he can't even get a handle on his supposedly arch enemy the devil... he can not manage to kill off all the unchosen. he can not even finish his appocalypse without coming down here to personally slaughter people.
biblegod is just one of many gods that has come and gone. such is the way with human constructs. he can not force me to do anything because the truth is he is powerless without you empowering him.
to read the teachings of the monotheistic religions.... well lets just say i find more integrity in the satan character.
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Having no specific religion in mind while asking this: What do you find desirable in the "satan character"?
hyperactive
Jun 5 2005, 12:20 AM
the fiction of satan has more integrity than the fiction of the god.
without returning to an old topic: when properly analyzed, one can see that the god character is the antagonist, and the satan character the protagonist, in the fictional work called the bible.
Amalgamut
Jun 5 2005, 01:28 AM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 4 2005, 06:20 PM)
the fiction of satan has more integrity than the fiction of the god.
without returning to an old topic: when properly analyzed, one can see that the god character is the antagonist, and the satan character the protagonist, in the fictional work called the bible.
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Tell me....why do you think this?
hyperactive
Jun 5 2005, 03:08 AM
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ Jun 4 2005, 05:28 PM)
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 4 2005, 06:20 PM)
the fiction of satan has more integrity than the fiction of the god.
without returning to an old topic: when properly analyzed, one can see that the god character is the antagonist, and the satan character the protagonist, in the fictional work called the bible.
[right][snapback]656649[/snapback][/right]
Tell me....why do you think this?
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have we not already discussed this? (or was the 'which one is the evil one / god is either everything or nothing' discussion with someone else? it was rather lengthy so i don't want to do the whole thing again if we can avoid it)
Ashley-Star*Child
Jun 5 2005, 05:47 AM
I wouldn't exactly call that magic (and I do know about this subject). Magic, however, WAS allowed in Judaic teachings - rather quietly. ALL magic goes back to eithr the tachings of the angels of Enoch, incantactions of angels, special rituals to call angels (you'd be surprised how many names in 'magic books' are names of angels/fallen angels/demons), etc. They DID have magic from the beginning as a result of the teachings of these angels, some were even given b y angels who had NOT fallen, as a way to help with many problems, but, as time went on a certain Rabbi abused it and God prohibited it's use. However, some Judaic teachings still used them (responsibly) and called angels, did angel rituals etc. There are many 'secrets' within Judaism about curing diseases, etc that are based on those original teachings AND that of Solomon. Solomon's book, (the uncut version) is almost entirely about magic as given to Solomon, with God's permision and under the guideance of a Holy angel (not falen) through a ring to have power over these Nephilim demons (half mortal half angel) from different regions of space (and it specifies which stars, constellations, etc) who were forced to tell Solomon what they caused (diseases and such) how to thwart them (calling angels, rituals, etc), and also, he had the power to make them build his city.
Magic became a 'dirty word' later on in Augustine's time, where he also threw out astrology, Enoch, and decided by himself that man had 'original sin', which did not exist before.
Amalgamut
Jun 5 2005, 06:10 PM
QUOTE(hyperactive @ Jun 3 2005, 10:24 PM)
he can not even finish his appocalypse without coming down here to personally slaughter people.
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He doesn't do this. He does send the seven plauges, but this is many years after the rapture and the birth of the beast. The plauges are mainly focused at the empire of the antichrist. The people that die are the devil worshippers.
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