Yes I think I remember.

However, Satan has always been the adversary.

I have always been under the impression that the classical "Satan", irrespective of religion, was that of a characterization which goes against God and thus is to be considered a danger and wholly avoided.

When I think of God, I do not think in terms of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, etc... I think of God as the Creator and the "Most High" of all entities.

nice way to put it

As I consider my own self, though generally "normal", I am yet taken back by the depravity of thoughts in my own mind which occur from time to time. I can only hope that my God, the Most High, will have compassion towards a soul certainly not even worthy of being in HIS presence.
I put my head down, as I have nothing but internal shame. No-one on the face of this planet is a lesser person than I.
Just because I have never been a mass-murderer, or bank robber, or sex criminal... that means nothing, as I have willfully entertained those thoughts, and so I am just as guilty, spiritually speaking.

any 'force' that is 'all' would not have an adversary! it would not be divided as such, for it would be everything, not just half.

@palladin:

it is a fascinating phenomenon that of the human 'need' to have something 'above'. religion creates most certianly that of guilt and depravity. the self serving nature of casting an artificial ideal unlike what a human is, and then making man feel 'bad' for being what he is rather than what he is not. perplexing and all too manipulating it is.

artificial hierarchies and orders provide nothing but falsehoods.

How do you measure 6 earth days if its not complete? Wonder how long 6 days for god would be. Might be billions of years eh? Dinos could easily have existed in a day of god assuming its quite long.

You anti-religion nuts are the same as the people you make fun of for believing.
Evidence is never enough for a sceptic.

How do you measure 6 earth days if its not complete? Wonder how long 6 days for god would be. Might be billions of years eh? Dinos could easily have existed in a day of god assuming its quite long.

You anti-religion nuts are the same as the people you make fun of for believing.
Evidence is never enough for a sceptic.
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Why is it that if we don't believe in a 1 and only super GOD the christians praise so highly that we are anti-religion nuts.

I have yet to see Jesus freaks mentioned but it is thought.

Do you really believe for the same reason I don’t? We’re talking about sensible, rational reasoning here.



Why are you withholding this evidence from the rest of the population. I am certain your evidence would be welcomed by those sceptics. Did you find the ark?

First to address this thread I assume the belief of a christian and it is true that Jesus is the son of God otherwise this would just be pointless and should better be discussed in another thread.
Ok let's say the external acts/phenomenon of miracles and magic are very similar, at least comparable, that is happenings that are outside of framework of 'normal' system of phenomenon or physical behaviour. The only difference then lies in who owns the right of system administration. I think christians (including myself) believe that God is the authorized administrator to bypass His own physical laws should He wish, which are set up for a important purpose. Miracles are just such bypasses for even higher purpose that require out of parameter intervention, while magic performers are h4c|<e|2s that gain entry to administrator status thus violating the most preferential default settings fit for the inhabitants and purpose of the world. So yeah, magic contravene the nature of our roles in the world and the nature of the world, but then God also made the world a open source platform and accessible through different means, namely science and art, so you can'r really complain I guess.

Since Faith healing is a form of white magic , by default they do . Also the "powers of the devil" can be seen as magic .

Thanks for not "laughing" at my self-depreciating comments. I was concerned after writing that it might be taken in an immature way.

I have taken great pains in being "honest" with myself. Some of which I have seen within is very ugly. Through this, I have gained much strength, and thoughts which were once "entertainment" are now fleeting, others completely non-existent.

My current goal is to be even more honest with myself, and I'm sure that it will be as painful, if not more, than before. For a thief to admit he is a thief is one thing; to truly comprehend the nature and consequence of it is another.

Hyperactive: I believe there is a hierarchy and order in life extending with and throughout the "spiritual" realm. I offer no proof of the spiritual realm, just being my belief that there is.

Can't get a grip on satan? Satan works FOR God. He is the prince of accusing angels, enemy of man, but not stupid enough to be enemy of God. God says so Himself that 'there is no one at war with Me'.

Satan is the prosecutor against humanity before God, and you wanna side with him? Ha, I pity you...

We should not be ashamed of our thoughts. We are only animals even though we like to hold ourselves to a higher standard. We fight our basic instincts and urges everyday to fit into our current concept of a functional society.

Christians invented the Devil in order to control people. All organised religions have controlled the population as some point. Its all political, a bit like this global warming business (of course the world is warming up, we're still coming out of the last ice age). Just look at how Catholicism controls the world, for money too! There is no satan or devil in paganism/wicca, and never has been!

I've moved and now back on line so i can explain myself. No you didn't breath at me wrong. Making ludricous comments like that comment over me being offended is wrong. I said nothing to you to deserve that. Is that what is gonna get said everytime I join in on a nice conversation then someone like you comes along everytime and takes a childish stab. Seems the only one that got this argument started is you.
I was shocked to see you making the post you did considering I have at times tried to be kind to you. But here you come out of the blue and make a mean statement as in saying you wouldn't want to say anything to offend me. Comments like that are rediculous. People and others like you know how yes I can get offended but who doesn't. You just know difference is that I care and you don't, that's why you could care less on whether you get my fire going again like all the others have.

I'am guessing that comment was towards S.C. and not me considering that as you can see she was the one that started it with the rude careless childish comment of hers to me. If it was made towards me then you need to reread and see who started this...

And yet again!

Back at ya!! But hey what do I expect... I can see when sides are tooken, I should have seen it coming especially when a little claimed to me she treated me less fairly than others!!

Starlitkate, you are attacking members 9 pages and three weeks after you told them to, get over it. You would have to agree that the irony of that comment is absolutely hillarious.

And it is.......

I don't see anything irony in it. What does irony in the comment have to do with the convo being 3 weeks old? Also, I explained that I moved so I was coming back to say what I wanted to and had a right to, which is not against the rules. Too bad hugh? Only one laughing here is you!!

*is laughing as well... a sinister evil laugh*

Well fortunately Starlitkate,
laughing is also not against the rules and being a moderator should not limit me, to only being growly. I am always first and foremost a member, like any other on U.M. and allowed to post an opinion.

And my opinion is, that if you tell somebody they need to do something, you should follow your own rules and lead by example.

Now back on topic please everyone.

The sun loses 5 feet off its surface every hour. This is because it is using up the "fuel" which keeps it going.

If you do some simple math, then you can prove the earth is less than 50,000 years old.

1) 5(ft) x 24(hrs)= 120 ft. Therefore the sun loses 120 ft off its surface each day.
2)120(ft) x 30(average days in a month)= 3600 ft. The sun loses 3600 ft per month.
3)3600 x 12(months)= 43200. The sun loses 43200 feet each year.
4)43200 x 50,000(years)= 2160000000. The sun has lost 2160000000 feet off its surface in 50,000 years.
5)2160000000 + 4593600000(diameter of sun in ft)= 6753600000. Therefore the sun was 6753600000 ft in diameter 50,000 years ago.

The earth is currently 93,000,000 mi away from the sun. Therefore, the earth is curently 485760000000 feet away from the sun. 50,000 years ago?

485760000000 - 6753600000= 479006400000 ft

In other words the earth was 675360000000 closer to the sun. Now, Earth was only an example planet used to explain my math equations. My argument actually centers around the planet Mercury. Mercury is currently 36250000 ft away from the sun. 6753600000(ft 50000 yrs ago) - 36250000(# of feet btwn Mercury and the Sun)= -6717350000ft.

Lets look at that answere again: -6717350000 ft. Note the number is negative. Thus, Mercury was not any distance from the sun, it was inside the sun.

Therefore 50,000 years ago Mercury was inside the sun, protected by a magical energy field that can deflect 15,000,000 degree heat celsius.

Actually that's not the way it happened. Mercury never was inside the sun. Therefore the earth is less than 50,000 years old. Therefore I can assure dinosaurs are not millions years old. If they were they must have been pretty tough surviving on a planet inside the sun.

Dinosaurs are NOT millions of years old.

It's as simple as that.

SC no .

And *snorts* Right... sure... childish... *laughs* Dear dear dear child... You have no tact... you have no ability to joke... and you have no more ability to understand simple logics and understanding that there are things out there that are not what you want them to be. Reality for you has been limited... very limited, and I feel sorry for you.

eveningsky, would you mind sharing the source of this "wisdom"?

just to get the facts streight:
sun's age: 4 1/2 billion years old
Sun's diameter: 864,938 miles (1,391,980 km)
Sun's mass: approx. 1.99 x 1030 kg


here is a easy to read site on the lifecycles of stars:
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/teachers...lifecycles.html

You seem to have excluded the fact that the sun loses 5 ft off its surface every hour. That is my point.

I'm not trying to be rude or unkind or anything I'm just trying to show evidence that supports my belief.

I'm sure you understand. No offense meant.

go read up on the lifecycles of stars and then get back to me.

why no source? afraid its credibility will be questioned?

edit:

http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/sun/Solar_interior/Nuclear_Reactions/Fusion/Fusion_in_stars/star_life.html

Sorry for the wait, I had to get a shower.

Two of my highschool science teachers, Freshman and Junior, told me that the sun loses 5 ft off its surface every hour because of the "fuel" it burns. They were both atheists. But you only have my word to go on, and that is not enough. So I'm going to find a nice little website that says the sun loses 5 ft off its surface every hour.



Why should I believe that?

The generally accepted age for the Earth and the rest of the solar system is about 4.55 billion years (plus or minus about 1%). This value is derived from several different lines of evidence.

Unfortunately, the age cannot be computed directly from material that is solely from the Earth. There is evidence that energy from the Earth's accumulation caused the surface to be molten. Further, the processes of erosion and crustal recycling have apparently destroyed all of the earliest surface.

The oldest rocks which have been found so far (on the Earth) date to about 3.8 to 3.9 billion years ago (by several radiometric dating methods). Some of these rocks are sedimentary, and include minerals which are themselves as old as 4.1 to 4.2 billion years. Rocks of this age are relatively rare, however rocks that are at least 3.5 billion years in age have been found on North America, Greenland, Australia, Africa, and Asia.

While these values do not compute an age for the Earth, they do establish a lower limit (the Earth must be at least as old as any formation on it). This lower limit is at least concordant with the independently derived figure of 4.55 billion years for the Earth's actual age.

So the sun is 4.55 billion years old too.

see above post: sun is 4.5 billion... but why squabble over .05 billion years.

Please post it when (IF) you find it.

Why should you believe that?
......Ask said teachers.

So did the Sun involve Magic and Jesus. I think this is a different post .

Keep laughing, jokes on you. When you first made the comment about you not posting because of me, then that was well not needed, it shows you are weak, and you were being a smart a** by trying to light my fire but in a bad way which goes to show that noone should take you seriously in anything you say cuz it's gonna be rediculous and as long as you have a ridicule comment towards someone then your day is fine....Keep laughing snort snort..I'am 24 and young at heart, and I have a sense of humor. You can joke but joking can be negative and obvisouly you can't comprehend that because you could care less. And how does simple logics and understanding have to do with what you first said to me about you not commenting on a subject cuz you didn't wanna hurt my senses or whatever it was. That is the only rediculous thing I seen here, therfor putting you in the position of needing reality checks here cuz you made the comment for nothing. Only thing here is I care and you don't. If that is a problem to you, get help!!

Debating is not attacking. But if it was the other way around, it would be questioned on why it's being called as an attack!

Talk about following own rules. You always preach that as a moderator you are fair. Yet you confessed to me in 2 private pm's that you were less fair with me than other members and you still stand by what others do and have something negative about everything I say or do. I'am not the only one that breaks my own words and rules!!

If you do not like to have your post debated then post in this section: CLICK HERE

http://members.aol.com/dwise1/cre_ev/solar_mass.html

This is closest thing I found talking about the sun loosing 5 ft. every hr.

Poor poor child!! I never said I didn't like debating. Kismit said I was attacking someone and I said I was debating a issue, so therefor how can debating be called attacking. Please read throughly before you cut and past what you want to use to attack me for no reason.

I have kids older than you.

You have had three weeks to get over what ever problem there was here but you did not....So who is being childish?

I did read throughly and how did I attack you?

Still you were obvisouly wrong in reading what I wrote about debating and attacking. I won that one.That was enough for me!! Who cares if you have children older than me, I've probably accomplished more in life than most of them!! SO whatever, I don't care, carry on if you must silly child!!

Ok that's enough, could we get this topic back on track or it's going to have to be closed.

Kate that last comment in particular was highly inapropriate, if you'd avoid making personal insults towards people and stick to debating the topic at hand in a civil manner, you'd find that people would be far more likely to take you seriously.

Well that's funny, everyone does take me seriously cuz they know they can. I never say anything mean to anyone and that last comment wasn't mean. It was a backlash at what he said. Also how come I'am the only one called up. I supposed zandore getting onto me everytime I'am debating or that nasty comment by SC which was unessecary was right by ya'll..I don't think it was, but hey I can't pick, right? Try to look at what these two did to me that started it and you will see why I take what they say seriously, cuz they know they can push my buttons, but you don't see that. So how is them making rude comments out of nowhere have to do with them taking me seriously??

Starlitkate, you have been told several times that if you should have an issue with something a mod or admin has posted that you should pm them directly and NOT post on the forum.

I am going to close this thread now as it seems to have served it's purpose