Pan was not invented by artists.  And for more, the Christians did indeed 'convert' or 'diabolise' certain aspects of our old religion, this to ease the conversion to christianity.  What i said is that 'Hel' (that's what it is called over here) has been taken over (this to be the same realm as in our old religion), in order to make our ancestors convert much easier.  And Cernunnos appeared in Celtic objects as a person with antlers, or stag horns.  And over here, the devil is also portrayed as a person with hooves and horns.  I should have some nice materials of this, but i will post it in another post, since i have to find it first.

-- And i am not a new ager who thinks there is no realm for damnation, since i do not feel connected to any new age movement whatsoever, since they are a blasphemy to our heritage.--
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You are not from these parts here so you don't understand.  I have no idea of keeping this discussion up.

And just for the record: Hell does not exist as a place in roman catholicism:

""To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from Him for ever by [one's] own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called 'Hell'." Thus, Pope John Paul II said (see link below), "The images of hell that Sacred Scripture presents to us must be correctly interpreted. They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God. Rather than a place, Hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy.""

Oh and to clarify things: i never said to be part of any religion, be it celtic or otherwise, but i do defy Christianity because it was forced upon us, it was not a free choice.

And about the sacrifices, i know about the "wooden men".  But that's what happened, denying it helps no-one.  Besides the church has burnt more than it's share of people - innocent - at the stake.
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Sigh Neopagans so rabidly anti christian they ignore a good point to babble about foolishness. READ VERY CAREFULLY. I did not say that Pan or Cernunnos was invented by midevil artists. You imagined that in your continued attempt to fit neo pagan flummery over traditions that are THOUSANDS of years old. What was entirely invented by midevil artists was the notion that Satan and Pan bear any similarity in appearance. The oldest Christian description of Satan is as a dragon or a serpent. Don't believe me? Try reading the bible it spells that out in black and white. As to you being part of the ancient Celtic religion whens the last time you practiced human sacrafice? ITs a matter of historical record the druids did.

Your a neo pagan with the religious equivalent of a salad bar. Your picknig and choosing the ancient beliefs you agree with. Btw records of Satan appear in the Old Testament. Since Judaism predates the Greco Roman Civilization its childish hatred to claim pan was the basis of Satan. Your OPPINION that there is no realm of damnation is a puirely modern idea.
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Pan was not invented by artists.  And for more, the Christians did indeed 'convert' or 'diabolise' certain aspects of our old religion, this to ease the conversion to christianity.  What i said is that 'Hel' (that's what it is called over here) has been taken over (this to be the same realm as in our old religion), in order to make our ancestors convert much easier.  And Cernunnos appeared in Celtic objects as a person with antlers, or stag horns.  And over here, the devil is also portrayed as a person with hooves and horns.  I should have some nice materials of this, but i will post it in another post, since i have to find it first.

-- And i am not a new ager who thinks there is no realm for damnation, since i do not feel connected to any new age movement whatsoever, since they are a blasphemy to our heritage.--
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Frankincense used for forgivness of sins? OMG!

That was the anwser I was looking for for soooo long. Well, I guess burning that thing in my room every night will make me a pure person...
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I think that maybe this isn't an issue of God vs Satan, but maybe the power of fear and the capability for horror within human beings?
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Some one fed up with bs, lies, and other foolishness Hoagy thats what authority.  At any rate don't like what i say don't read it.
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good comeback.

what bs and lies would that be? just because someone does'nt follow the same path as you? Ignorance in any form can be a dangerous thing.

if you don't agree with what others say, don't reply, but oh, wait, hang on, its a public forum, I forgot...

Maybe some people find some of the things you say hard to swallow too.
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Forget about the holy water and crucifixes and stick with the prayers. It also might be a good idea to remove any and all symbols of idolatry from your house as well as tarot cards and/or ouija boards. Revue your personal library I suspect that there is something in your house that is attracting this spirit.
Search your spirituality through prayer and research it will lead you to the item you need to get rid of.
All The Best
Irish
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Lets see two examples of bs from this string of arguements:

1) Satan was invented by CHristian: He wasn't Judaism used the names hundreds of years before Christianity was born. Also the idea of a guiding spiritual force of evil is thousands of years older then that(see my post the origin of satan under religion vs skepticism)

2) Satan was a corruption of Pan/Cernunos: Since the only faint resemblence to either pagan god was invented by artists in the middle ages and BEARS NO RESEMBLENCE to scriptural nor traditional accounts of the appearance of Satan or his demons this is a ridiculous statement.
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That's not true. Are you calling Moses a liar when he wrote Job? Also Job lived in Ur after the leader of the Watchers was imprisoned- so it can't be any of the Watchers. Lucifer is indeed a Latin word (mistranslation by Jerome), but Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28 follow the principle of double reference. Many have argued against that exegis for Isaiah 14, but it is corroborated by Ezekiel which is clearly and irrefutably a x2 reference. Satan as proposed by the Catholic church (the satirical horned faun) is to some degree a corruption of Pan, but that's not his biblical description. Also this two horned figure was applied by the Temple authority to the annual "scapegoat" sacrifice given to the angel of the abyss, so it precedes any corruption which the pagan pan might have suffered. More importantly, you should look to the sources of the Roman mystery cults- Pan had other names before the Romans adopted him. Perhaps Pan WAS the subject of the annual scapegoat ritual?
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So by showing that the Jews spoke of Satan before the CHristians(IE Job) thus proving he was NOT invented by the Christians means I called Moses a liar. Also it wasn't the Catholic church who invented the horned satyr. The Catholic Church as in the bible refers to Satan as the Dragon and the Serpent. You should read what I say before starting a rant.
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Forget about the holy water and crucifixes and stick with the prayers. It also might be a good idea to remove any and all symbols of idolatry from your house as well as tarot cards and/or ouija boards. Revue your personal library I suspect that there is something in your house that is attracting this spirit.
Search your spirituality through prayer and research it will lead you to the item you need to get rid of.
All The Best
Irish
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Over here, in Europe, the image of Satan was never a serpent.  Sure he is from the catholic church, but the images used to convert people to christianity were those identical to cernunnos, in order to show the people that their old religion is 'wrong', and that the christians are right.  That is my whole point.  The imagery provided by the church in all their books et cetera were horned, hooved men.  Keep in mind that catholicism took some time to get here, several hundred years.
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Looks like christian propaganda to me.

That’s exactly what it is. So called "exorcists" and "demonologists" rely on this type of fear to keep there fantasy alive in the people they prey on. Most so called possessions are down to mental illness, fantasy, and even out right lies in order to convince others and say 'See I told you so' so that they can push there religious beliefs on others. I am a believer in demonic entities, but believe demonic possessions are so rare your more likely to be stuck by lightning demonic entities are rarely found in the earth plane. Also anyone that knows about demonic beings will know that what gives them strength and power is fear, hate, and anger, something that these religious extremists and so called exorcists preach the most.

I’m not saying the persons experience here is due to mental illness or lies, but it sounds like a classic case of a story religious extremists and people who benefit from so called satanic or demonic possessions will jump on.

You have to ask why Hindus and Buddhists do not claim to be possessed by Satan and demons every 5 minutes, and people that are apart of the culture that believes in the fantasy Satan and his so called power, do get lots of cases of "satanic possession", you have to be careful when it comes to demonic possession claims, because most are down to fanatical lunatics with egos, wanting to spread there fear mongering with stories just like this, just so they can justify and up hold there believe system and take advantage of the people easily lead enough to believe it, these stories keep them very people fearful and in turn will keep the exorcists in work. You see corrupt preachers angrily preaching to the venerable about how "Satan" is ready to possesses you around every corner, using peoples fears and gullibility’s to convince them, which then causes mass hysteria and acting out of fantasys about being possessed. The horrific and evil consequences of all this is the mental illness and role playing you see in these religious cult type churches that you see in America and Mexico ect, the more people that roll around on the floor "possessed by Satan" the more non thinking people believe it, which strengthens the preachers, demonologists or exorcists ego some more, and in many cases helps them put another car onto there drive.

Pentecostal and other extremist churches are responsible for so much mental illness and fear typed mass hysteria and the destruction of peoples lives it sickens me, and I hope god can forgive them for there selfish fear mongering, and hated loving mentalities.

If "Satan" and "The Devil" had never been invented by the church, then no one would have become possessed by him, because people would have no need to act out there fantasies to convince others that there beliefs is the "true word of god".

All these exorcist are doing is fuelling the fear that leads to these mental illnesses, so that the ones preaching about possession can cash in on this stuff, and also say ‘See we told you Satan was real, come join our church and we will protect you from him’.

I think its sick that this kind of thing is allowed to happen, and that the mentally ill can be exploited like this and used to fatten the ego and wallets of others, in order that the so called religious leaders can promote there religion. Most high up in the Catholic church even agree that a huge majority of so called possessions are down to mental illness.

The fundamentalists and extremist churches sure are responsible for a whole lot of mental illness, paranoia and delusions, but what more can you expect when you pump your followers full of fire and brimstone, the apocalypse and the devils waiting to possess you every 5 minutes?.

All the best
Faeden
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