Last year I had an incident which changed my life and my thoughts forever. Since 1996 to 2004 I would wake up from my sleep automatically attacking something in the air. Many times I would see this face or cloud above me. I would have this episode over and over every 6 months for over 7 years. I thought, this is nothing. It's a waking dream.

I got married in 2001. My wife would tell me that I would say strange things in my sleep and that I would sit up and stare at her with my eyes open. I'm talking about a stare cold as ice. An unhuman stare that would make anyone nervous. I had no memory of this. She said I would speak in a totally different voice. A dark and deep voice with a language unknown. We thought, Oh gibberish, this is nothing, just like the cloud I kept seeing.

Soon my wife sees the cloud a couple times. And we even see it together a time or two before it dissapears into thin air. Now it was becoming kind of spooky. So years pass and of course these incidents re-0ccur.

Time comes to 2004. We have been married a few years now. One night I am working a shift till 9 p.m. I come home and watch tv and go to sleep because I have to go to work at 7 a.m. the next day. Well I fall asleep around 11 p.m. My wife is working late. She gets home around 3 a.m. The next thing I realize is that I wake up hearing this DEMONIC Growling and Yelling. It was so horrid, one can not imagine from my own words just how wicked it sounded. Well this horrid sound was coming from me. I awoke from this noise coming from my mouth and my wife SCREAMING And CRYING for her life. It was not a dream. I had not awaken from a dream. I was on top of my wife choking her. She Slapped me a half of a dozen times and it did no good. ONly her screaming made me conscious.

My wife said she came home from work. All around our house, there were Dogs. All the dogs were barking towards our house. The moon was full (but thats just something I noticed later) Anyways, my wife is already scared. She gets inside the house and has an strange feeling. She hears Growling. Loud Growling. As if a dog was inside the house. My wife walks into our room and see's me standing on our bed crouched growling like a demonic beast. She has seen me with my eyes open many times when I have been asleep before. So she comes closer to tell me to go to sleep. Usually that would work. Usually if she said that I would go back to sleep, but still not aware of what was going on. Well she tried this method of telling me to go back to sleep. As she got closer, the growl got meaner and she said I had jumped on her and pinned her down and started choking her. I began a demon hollering/yelling/screaming and she slapped me many times so I would let go. Finally the only thing that made me awake from this (Possession) was her screaming my name and crying. And of course I heard this demonic sound coming from my own mouth and that scared the living crap out of me.

I was confused as I heard this noise and her scream. It took me a few moments to realize something terrible was happening that I was not aware of. I tried to calm her by saying " It's ok! It's me now. It's graham. I love you! It's me." I could here my voice. My voice was still not my own for another few moments. As I tried to speak, my voice was like the voice of the Creature in MOTHMAN Prophecies. That real low, kind creepy voice. A few moments and my voice was back to normal.

We both sat and cried. NO DOUBT in both of our minds. This was no dream. This was no sleepwalking. This was no subconscious subliminal action. This was pure of evil. Something Demonic had possessed me that night.

Also my cat loves me to death. Well right after this possession deal, many minutes later I saw my cat. My cat is not afraid of much. Well when I looked at him, his ears were folded down and his eyes showed extreme fear.

The next day we got holy water and Crucifixes and spread them everywhere. We sat that night and prayed all night long. We could not go back to sleep.

About a week or two later one more thing happened. This was the last incident. We were both asleep. I awoke. Fully awake. I have a statue of Apollo. Well I felt spooked. I looked at it and the damn eyes were glowing like an animals eyes when you shine a flashlight at them in the dark. I got up and looked out the window. The light was not shining on the statue from outside. I picked the damn thing up and they were still glowing. I was thinking, Oh my god. I put the damn statue in another room and spent most of the night trying to go back to sleep, but that just wasn't happening.

Before all this, I wasn't religous at all. Ever since I put the love of god and the prayers into my life, things seem to be peaceful.

I will never ever doubt god again. Although I will never be in the bible belt of religion war and futile debate. I believe in my heart and that is all that matters.

And I would honestly suggest to those who don't believe and say that they hate god, to at least give him a chance. I can only imagine what hell is like. I would wish what happened to me on nobody. And if you think the devil will treat you with respect or that you can deal with life in hell, then you had better think again. Thats all I will say.

What happened to me and my wife is something wicked and evil.

I did a painting of the clouds and some of the ghostly apparitions that I have seen. Hopefully it will show up in this post

can i come and stay with you please (see the fear challenge thread started by me)

your story is interesting but im afraid teh cynic in me must come out
a few points to think upon (as unlikely as they seem they are all possibilities)

1) your post could be church propoganda i.e you mention believing in god as a suggestion (fear tactics always work on organised religion)

2) did you know some people can cook entire meals and eat them in their sleep (honestly) its a rare type of sleep walking (obviously they dont cook in bed they go to the kitchen)

3) sounds like you and (your wife) do shift work and unregular patterns which when sleep deprived causes halucinations visions etc

4) an inital fear stopped you sleeping even more adding to the sleep deprived state and as you said the "symptoms" got worse

5) personal emoptional pyscollogical turmoil could be responsible and religion eased your mind and comforted you and so it went away (i.e your problem was a physcological one)

the list is just some points to reflect upon, i think number 1 is most important a considerable passage in your explaination is regarding how comforting believing in god was and how you reccomend us to follow your example

please excuse my outlandish spelling in that post.

I typed in very quickly! (honest)

Those are all plausible possiblities for sure. Although i've had good sleep patterns and no use of narcotics or alcohol.

I can totally understand why you would be cynical. The world is full of so many lies and propaganda. Who can tell what is fact from fiction.

You and me could argue for an eternity on the issue, but perhaps neither of us are right. THen of course until the human brain is fully understand to a 100% none of us will ever know for sure.

In my experience, this was unique. Sure it could some kind of sleep disorder or malfuntion in the brain. Hell I don't know, but there was more than just the experience. There was a deep feeling of evil. Just one of those feeling you get when you don't feel safe.

As soon as I found god, it has not come back. I have had no more clouds, no more sleep walking. It's really something extraodinary to me and my wife.

Regardless of who's right or wrong, I'm going to play things safe and keep my newfound faith well attached. Although I feel very strongly and emotionally this was demonic or maybe even just a wake up call. That is what faith is. To believe when one has no reason to do so.

And no I'm not a religious sect or cult here to sell you. I already knew I would get some cynical responses. Everyone can tell me I'm full of it. I could care less.

This is just a good place to get this horrid incident off my chest and share my experience with others.

Forget about the holy water and crucifixes and stick with the prayers. It also might be a good idea to remove any and all symbols of idolatry from your house as well as tarot cards and/or ouija boards. Revue your personal library I suspect that there is something in your house that is attracting this spirit.
Search your spirituality through prayer and research it will lead you to the item you need to get rid of.
All The Best
Irish

That's a really horrifying story XANITHAR. I believe you and totally understand why you are referring to those who don't believe in God. If I had experienced what you did, I would be saying the same. I wish you all best and hope that the rest of your life is peaceful. Thank you for sharing this with us!

You know, if this is true it should be on the news.
And I have a very stong feeling that this is church propaganda, tying into beleifs of beleiving in g-d or the worst will happen....whatever

this is an awesome story...!!!
I believe it was caused by demons...
i have also seen visions while awake...
and my mom saw them to...
so it was not in our heads....
i think demons and make illusions appear before you....

so i beleive in your story.....
the evil voice coming from you was a demon i believe...
only evil would make you choke your own wife....

but it's good to see you are free of the demon now...

i dont think was gas that caused ur weird stuff!

propably something evil!

wow. that is some scary stuff.
I have always feared that sort of thing, but likewise, I put my faith in God's hands and it works...
Evil and demons are pretty powerful, but surprisingly as powerful and scary as they might seem, they fear God more.
I always keep that in my heart whenever I am afraid.
I hope that never happens to you again.

truly scary story, but don't you feel that if it was truly demonic possession, you would have had to have been exorcized?

If that really happened, its some really freaky stuff. Hope that never happens to me.

I've heard of similar types of sleep induced occurances. Is it our own subconscious or demonic possesion? Depends on what you beleive.

Agreed.

send me the offending items i will happily try to enrage the spirit world.

Can't you do it by remote viewing desk light?

well the only remote viewing i am able to do, involves a television.
regarding possesion i too believe i have been possessed it really strange..

at first the spirit is dormant and i have no idea he is within me But when i drink certain drinks he becomes alive and takes over. it must be another person as i have little memory of what he does the next day. what i do know is that it must be the spirit of a retarded man becuase he cannot walk straight and he slurs his speach!

Also through his eyes females seem more appealing than before and i imagine he is a violent man becuase the urge for a fight increases, he must be greek as he craves a kebab too!

amazing!....................(its all in jest, dont take offense anyone)

That's happened to me as well! Ever wake up in strange places without the faintest idea of how you got there? WIth some strange woman beside you?

There's only one way to stop this from happening, and it isn't easy.

I myself am a wife and sometimes I get on my own nerves Are you sure an evil presence is the ONLY thing that would make you choke your wife?

Hmm... That is a good theory. Perhaps this evil is attracted to some item in my home. Perhaps it is the statue of Apollo that I have. I am an artist as well. I work on a comic book and I draw incredibly strange creatures and characters. I don't know where the hell they come from. I draw them in minutes instantly without a great deal of thought. I have often wondered if this evil lives within me. I personally believe everyone has an angel and a demon. Just like the Angel and the demon and the shoulder thing whispering good and bad into your ear.

There are so many possibilities. Although my imagination is strong, but under control. I am a very relaxed person. I don't have any psychotic tendancies that would cause this action in my sleep. It just astounds me that I had my eyes open for such a long period of time with no recollection and did the things I did.

If I didn't hear the demonic yelling and my own voice changed as something/someone elses, then I would not believe this was anything to do with the dead or demonic. Hearing those horrid sounds freaked me out and I really don't freak out that easily.

I have another probablility of subliminal messages in music. That night as I went to sleep, I was listening to an old 80's heavy metal band called "Carnivore." There is a song on there called "God is Dead" Perhaps that song pissed off god. The band has a savage sound. I've heard of people being able to record dead peoples voices on low frequencies. Perhaps a demon or evil entity spoke as the band was recording the music and thus recording subliminal messages into their music.

Honestly though, I think it has more to do than the music. Seeing these cloud things since 1996 concludes to me that something has been hanging around. Something evil and dark. I have been finding myself increasing more tempermental which is odd, because I am one extremly easy going guy. And I still feel it's pressence lurking about.

And for those who think I'm some fanatical church crusader, you are completely wrong. I'm not into church. I believe in God, but Church to was created by man. Churches all inflict their own views and create their own idealistic views and I can't agree with that. Many of them have become all about money, eating and socializing and even gossiping about their neighbors. Although I'm not going to totally blast churches. Many people need better lives and if they can try to fix their lives from their wrong doings, then good for them!

Mainly I have told my story and it is by no means falsified and it's kind of freaky to think that there are people and other things that can see us, but we can't see them. And also that they can take over our bodies if they desire.


Someone asked if it was a demon, why didn't I stay possessed? Well I don't think life is necessarily like the movie the exorcist. I think these things can only possess us when we are weak. When a person sleeps, we are weak and our defenses are down. I can see how a demon could possess us then. I didn't stay possessed, because my wife crying woke up my inner soul that was seemingly trapped. Perhaps I broke free from it's grip.


Oh and the band Carnivore, the singer from that band is now with Type O Negative. So that is some music I'm going to stay away from. The singer is Peter Steele and when he was with Carnivore used to bite into dead animals and thrush their blood all over the stage. That is one wicked SOB!

but if a person can be possessed when they are weak wouldn't ppl be possessed a lot? esp ppl who have a mental illness? and how would someone with a mental illness become 'un-possessed' w/o some type of exorcism since they would tend to stay in a weakened state?
i'm not using the movie the exorcist as the only reference for possession to need exorcism. every possession i've ever heard of needed an exorcism, that's all.
i don't believe in it personally.
i think it's interesting tho.

Fear.....a motivating factor in faith in a God.

The mind is a powerful thing.

maybe you should get more information on a sleep condition called parasomnia.
sleep conditions have nothing to do with mental illnesses they are just that, sleep conditions.
according to http://sleepdisorders.about.com/cs/sleepwa...epmurder_5.htm:

parasomnia, partial arousal that interferes with the transition between the different stages of sleep. People who suffer from any form of parasomnia revert to their instincts and may display unusual sexual, eating or violent behavior.

there have been cases where ppl have actually committed murder in this state. it is actually considered an altered state of consciousness.
anyway, just a suggestion.
good luck and good health!

Hear, hear Ethyl!



A sensible explaination to a highly emotive issue.......

I don't wish to be involved in another 'possesion' debate after the last one, but I stand by my comments fully.
There are far too many guillable, easily led people out there, who can be manipulated by fear & suggestion. The human brain is an increadible piece of machinery...is causes dreams, emotions, wishes, desires, hallucinations etc etc

What wonderful creatures we are!

Hammy x x x

Looks like christian propaganda to me. Nice story, none the less, but many are the stories by fanatic christians who once were 'evil' and blah blah and suddenly they change in their heart. Also, if you have 'converted' to become a believer in god or whatever, why do you still own that apollo statue? Christians have a way in... making things "disappear" that are either "heathen" in their eyes, or unconvertible. I don't believe in god, i never have, and i haven't forgiven the so called 'loving' god who killed druids in my country, chopped down holy oaks and put churches instead. I'd rather believe in keeping the balance between good and evil rather than suddenly believing in a god when something bad happens. I think this whole issue is a more psychological one rather than a possession.
Still, nice story. (and it is not criticizing that person, just telling what i feel about it)

[quote=XANITHAR,May 24 2005, 03:40 PM]

Despite what anyone says, I beieve your story, and I have witnessed others like you.
I study, research and deal with people who experience what you have gone through.
I have experienced many bizarre things, myself, and they led me to seek the turh, and in finding that truth, it led me to help people.
I have a team that assists people (at no cost) in these types of situations.
I am so happy that you have found God and keep Him in your life- many of our clients that do not, and they then do not find themselves delivered. When they follow our advice and counsel, they, like you, have a profound experience in their life, and are very happy and are protectyed from this type of thing occurring again. And in turn, they also receive a wonderful and peaceful life after this one.
I believe God allows these things to happen, so that we find Him. Sometimes something so major needs to be done so that we will see. So that others will see.
I have found that the more I read and study and use the Bibl ein my life, I become closer to God, and in the work I do, I need that (Him).
Thanks for sharing your story!

Wow, a very religious topic we have here. Quite extraordinary experiences you have got. If I was your wife I would've been too scared to sleep or even live in the same house with you, during the time you experienced these possessions. In my opinion your belief in God stopped the possessions, not God himself. If you believe hard enough God is able to protect you from that, he probably will in your mind. A purely mental thing from my point of view. It is the need of the human mind to believe in something. But it's not a bad thing. Keep your belief, but don't press it on others. Not that I'm saying you are.

I'm not sure if I should touch this or not, because I dont want you to think I am a "fanatic Christian" or that I have this desire to debate in an aggressive way. Just so you know, this is just written to express my feelings, and in a way explain some things, so that you, and other readers dont get the wrong idea of all Christians. And it is written with respect- not trying to bash ya (as sometimes posts can seem).
I am considered a Christian, although I feel Christianity is a religion, and religion is man-made. I do not follow rules made by a church, but I try to follow what the Bible says- what God wants from me.
I believe that th Bible gives us everything we need to know, but it does not give us everything. And this is where the confusion of religion and God come into play, and the huge desire and search for some kind of answers and spiritual truth comes into play. I feel many religions are about money and power (control)_ and this is wrong. I feel we should follow what God wants us to do, and that is clearly stated in the Bible.
I am Bible-believing and God loving, and I attend church every week, Bible studies, and prayer to and praise of God is a big part of my life and my family's live. I am 34, but this just came to me about 6 mos ago, and every day it gets stronger. Just like in everything, there are fanatics in all things, including religions. But not all Christians are fanatic and not all fanatics are "crazy" but passionate about what they believe... to us, it is not a belief, it is the truth. Many times for the change that occurred in our lives. I dont have a major life altering change- I never was a druggie or allcoholic, but I did practice some things that were not of God and wrong. I had some spiritual experiences (before I knew the Bible or had a strong belief in God). That led me to seek out answers, and from there, I have a good relationship with God now. Everything in my life has improved, and whenever I ask God for something, He does answer me! No, I'm not rich- but I dont desire or ask for riches, because people who are of God dont seek much other than a humble life and a life of forgiveness and salvation when we die. I dont seek answers anymore, I just accept what God gives me, and I am happy and content.
I am a spiritual investigator (much like a paranormal investigator but we deal more with the spiritual aspects of ghosts, hauntings, possession and opression). I have seen and dealt with so much spiritual aspect of demons and God, I have no choice not to believe. It is like looking at my hand and saying "its not there". I personally have been proven there is a God, and demons, and that the Bible speaks truth. I have done study and research and have had experience in many aspects of this field, and there are many people out there who have dealt with and seen demons...and angels. Some are Christians and some are not.
Yes, there are sleep disorders, but when there is a vast amount of things going on, that are not normal, then the spiritual can be involved. It is around and among us all, whether we choose to believe and see or not.
But I also wanted to touch what you said, that you have not forgiven the so-called god who killed druids in my country, chopped down holy oaks and put churches instead".
Please know that God did not do this. There are many churches in the past up to today, that are not of God- not God-willed. So who is to say God did this, just because churches were put up? Anything that is bad in this world, is of evil, not God. God allows things to happen so that people will grow and learn from them. So that we make choices and ultimately choose Him, and that will please Him and glorify Him. We do not see the whole picture- He does.
So when a 1 yr old child is in a car accident, and needs his brain surgically worked on because of a blood clot, the mother is devastated! Yes. Now the son has to have continual therapy and check ups. That is of the devil, And the mother wonders why God would do this to her and her son. But God dint DO it, He allowed it, because that is how when months down the line when he still needs continual check ups, they find a tumor in him....Now he can live. They may not have found it if those check ups werent done. So God turned a bad thing into good. He didnt create it, but He owned it.
God turns things around for good. And this life, what we experience, and feel, is just a drop in the well to what really is when we die. So, know that God created man, and evil created (IS) evil...man is tempted into it and God allows it, and it all pans out in the end for good. It always does. Death is a reward. So when those druids were killed, maybe God allowed that to give them a second chance at knowing and living the truth, so that they can have eternal peace- with Him, instead of living an eternity in hell.
People who truly believe in God and have faith, love Him all the time, and need Him all the time, and praise and worship Him all the time, and talk to Him all the time, praying when things are bad, praying to thank Him when things are good. If everything was percet, then we would have no need for God. That is another reason bad is allowed.
Instead of being angry at someone (or God) for my mother's long suffering Cancer battle and horrible death, I turn and say, "it was meant to be" and her death may have saved my son's life- he will never smoke after what he saw what she went through. And I feel she is in a much better place- deah is a reward- not a punishment- it is a better place there than here. So she is happier there than here.
Instead of being angry at the vulchers who took my mom's things, I know they are nothing to her, as she is surrounded by perfection and peace, and therefore, it is no big deal...I should care about the good not the bad.
So be happy for the druids. God has reasons for everything, and I wont try to understand all, but I do accept all, and that is called faith. It is much better to walk and live in faith, as it makes life so much better and clearer, than not to.
I hope you see this as me caring about someone who seems lost and angry, and not as insulting.
I guess I just wanted to explain on a few things.

Wow that was some freaky story, I believe that could really happen, The Exorcist was based on something that really happened in the 40's

Personally I think you should search every nook and cranny in your house and if there is anything to do with evil, burn it or try and get in contact with the previous owners of your house and ask if anything had happened to them or if they did anything to do with evil.

These "clouds" could ave just been some hallucination from tiredness or under sleeping.

If there is a basement search there too you could find something hidden or check under the floorboards a good place to hide stuff.

Best thing just keep praying, good luck

a very moving story

A little off topic here...
I am a christian too, however, my people have pagan roots (Celt - germanic to be exact), so i don't feel beholden to christians. Also, let us not forget what the Christians have done to many great minds, and also to the pagan people of my region, and the indians, and... well, you're catching my drift i think. I am a catholic by force, certainly not by choice. Back to the topic now...

[quote=Desk Light,May 25 2005, 11:22 AM]
well the only remote viewing i am able to do, involves a television.
regarding possesion i too believe i have been possessed it really strange..

at first the spirit is dormant and i have no idea he is within me But when i drink certain drinks he becomes alive and takes over. it must be another person as i have little memory of what he does the next day. what i do know is that it must be the spirit of a retarded man becuase he cannot walk straight and he slurs his speach!

Also through his eyes females seem more appealing than before and i imagine he is a violent man becuase the urge for a fight increases, he must be greek as he craves a kebab too!

amazing!....................(its all in jest, dont take offense anyone)


This person you keep changing into, it could the person you were in life before or you could be schitzophrenic (sorry if that's spelt wrong and I don't meant to offend anyone) maybe you could have some tests.
Or maybe you could have someone record the things you do while this man takes over and after life or whatever,
just an idea

Ohkaaay. So God has a reason for everything. Care to explain me why he allowed hundreds of thousands of people get killed in the tsunami accident? Is this similar to the Flood? God wasn't pleased to all the people who had sinned? What happened to the all forgiving/loving God! Care to explain me why God tests Job's faith by making his life a living Hell if he is so loving? Or what about Jesus. What kind of a father lets his only son get sacrificed like that! The Christian God of the Bible is sick and twisted. I dont believe in that God. I believe in the Creator of the universe. Besides Bible is man made, so that says a lot...

Why the heck are we supposed to please God anyway? To get into heaven? I don't live to please anyone. Sorry God of the Bible if this does not satisfy you and you put me into Hell after I die, but I just refuse to believe in a ruthless and cold God like you.

Also if death is such a great reward and life's just a big test God puts us through to see are we worthy of his love, why don't you just considerately kill all the people around you and grant them the reward? That would be so unselfish and considerate that when you'd finally die, I bet you'd be on the top of the waiting list into heaven!

I expect to be flamed by all the Bible God believers. Do so if you must, I understand.

[quote=SRIHeidiL,May 31 2005, 08:09 PM]
[quote=Cernunnos,May 28 2005, 12:06 PM]Looks like christian propaganda to me.  Nice story, none the less, but many are the stories by fanatic christians who once were 'evil' and blah blah and suddenly they change in their heart.  Also, if you have 'converted' to become a believer in god or whatever, why do you still own that apollo statue?  Christians have a way in... making things "disappear" that are either "heathen" in their eyes, or unconvertible.  I don't believe in god, i never have, and i haven't forgiven the so called 'loving' god who killed druids in my country, chopped down holy oaks and put churches instead.  I'd rather believe in keeping the balance between good and evil rather than suddenly believing in a god when something bad happens.  I think this whole issue is a more psychological one rather than a possession.
Still, nice story. (and it is not criticizing that person, just telling what i feel about it)
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[/quote]


I'm not sure if I should touch this or not, because I dont want you to think I am a "fanatic Christian" or that I have this desire to debate in an aggressive way. Just so you know, this is just written to express my feelings, and in a way explain some things, so that you, and other readers dont get the wrong idea of all Christians. And it is written with respect- not trying to bash ya (as sometimes posts can seem).
I am considered a Christian, although I feel Christianity is a religion, and religion is man-made. I do not follow rules made by a church, but I try to follow what the Bible says- what God wants from me.
I believe that th Bible gives us everything we need to know, but it does not give us everything. And this is where the confusion of religion and God come into play, and the huge desire and search for some kind of answers and spiritual truth comes into play. I feel many religions are about money and power (control)_ and this is wrong. I feel we should follow what God wants us to do, and that is clearly stated in the Bible.
I am Bible-believing and God loving, and I attend church every week, Bible studies, and prayer to and praise of God is a big part of my life and my family's live. I am 34, but this just came to me about 6 mos ago, and every day it gets stronger. Just like in everything, there are fanatics in all things, including religions. But not all Christians are fanatic and not all fanatics are "crazy" but passionate about what they believe... to us, it is not a belief, it is the truth. Many times for the change that occurred in our lives. I dont have a major life altering change- I never was a druggie or allcoholic, but I did practice some things that were not of God and wrong. I had some spiritual experiences (before I knew the Bible or had a strong belief in God). That led me to seek out answers, and from there, I have a good relationship with God now. Everything in my life has improved, and whenever I ask God for something, He does answer me! No, I'm not rich- but I dont desire or ask for riches, because people who are of God dont seek much other than a humble life and a life of forgiveness and salvation when we die. I dont seek answers anymore, I just accept what God gives me, and I am happy and content.
I am a spiritual investigator (much like a paranormal investigator but we deal more with the spiritual aspects of ghosts, hauntings, possession and opression). I have seen and dealt with so much spiritual aspect of demons and God, I have no choice not to believe. It is like looking at my hand and saying "its not there". I personally have been proven there is a God, and demons, and that the Bible speaks truth. I have done study and research and have had experience in many aspects of this field, and there are many people out there who have dealt with and seen demons...and angels. Some are Christians and some are not.
Yes, there are sleep disorders, but when there is a vast amount of things going on, that are not normal, then the spiritual can be involved. It is around and among us all, whether we choose to believe and see or not.
But I also wanted to touch what you said, that you have not forgiven the so-called god who killed druids in my country, chopped down holy oaks and put churches instead".
Please know that God did not do this. There are many churches in the past up to today, that are not of God- not God-willed. So who is to say God did this, just because churches were put up? Anything that is bad in this world, is of evil, not God. God allows things to happen so that people will grow and learn from them. So that we make choices and ultimately choose Him, and that will please Him and glorify Him. We do not see the whole picture- He does.
So when a 1 yr old child is in a car accident, and needs his brain surgically worked on because of a blood clot, the mother is devastated! Yes. Now the son has to have continual therapy and check ups. That is of the devil, And the mother wonders why God would do this to her and her son. But God dint DO it, He allowed it, because that is how when months down the line when he still needs continual check ups, they find a tumor in him....Now he can live. They may not have found it if those check ups werent done. So God turned a bad thing into good. He didnt create it, but He owned it.
God turns things around for good. And this life, what we experience, and feel, is just a drop in the well to what really is when we die. So, know that God created man, and evil created (IS) evil...man is tempted into it and God allows it, and it all pans out in the end for good. It always does. Death is a reward. So when those druids were killed, maybe God allowed that to give them a second chance at knowing and living the truth, so that they can have eternal peace- with Him, instead of living an eternity in hell.
People who truly believe in God and have faith, love Him all the time, and need Him all the time, and praise and worship Him all the time, and talk to Him all the time, praying when things are bad, praying to thank Him when things are good. If everything was percet, then we would have no need for God. That is another reason bad is allowed.
Instead of being angry at someone (or God) for my mother's long suffering Cancer battle and horrible death, I turn and say, "it was meant to be" and her death may have saved my son's life- he will never smoke after what he saw what she went through. And I feel she is in a much better place- deah is a reward- not a punishment- it is a better place there than here. So she is happier there than here.
Instead of being angry at the vulchers who took my mom's things, I know they are nothing to her, as she is surrounded by perfection and peace, and therefore, it is no big deal...I should care about the good not the bad.
So be happy for the druids. God has reasons for everything, and I wont try to understand all, but I do accept all, and that is called faith. It is much better to walk and live in faith, as it makes life so much better and clearer, than not to.
I hope you see this as me caring about someone who seems lost and angry, and not as insulting.
I guess I just wanted to explain on a few things.
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You have made a good point on the boy in car crash. I once had a tumour for 8 years which God had allowed to happen but just last year I had the tumour removed and everything has been fine (I'm still accident prone though) I guess you would say that God and the devil did this to me. I'm not making any points just saying what happened, maybe you could correct me in this Heidi?!?!

[quote=Doccy,May 31 2005, 08:54 PM]
Ohkaaay. So God has a reason for everything. Care to explain me why he allowed hundreds of thousands of people get killed in the tsunami accident? Is this similar to the Flood? God wasn't pleased to all the people who had sinned? What happened to the all forgiving/loving God! Care to explain me why God tests Job's faith by making his life a living Hell if he is so loving? Or what about Jesus. What kind of a father lets his only son get sacrificed like that! The Christian God of the Bible is sick and twisted. I dont believe in that God. I believe in the Creator of the universe. Besides Bible is man made, so that says a lot...

Why the heck are we supposed to please God anyway? To get into heaven? I don't live to please anyone. Sorry God of the Bible if this does not satisfy you and you put me into Hell after I die, but I just refuse to believe in a ruthless and cold God like you.

Also if death is such a great reward and life's just a big test God puts us through to see are we worthy of his love, why don't you just considerately kill all the people around you and grant them the reward? That would be so unselfish and considerate that when you'd finally die, I bet you'd be on the top of the waiting list into heaven!

I expect to be flamed by all the Bible God believers. Do so if you must, I understand.
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You're right about God doing everything for a reason, if you're talking about the flood of the millenium a few years back in the red river maybe god was angry with that little town so he caused a natural disaster same with the tsunami but it doesn't make him an evil person (I think he's a man with a big white beard) he controls the world and decides what will happen tomorrow in the weather and when a child is born. And people who take trees are doing it for a god reason like building religious places rather than cutting down and burning etc.
Hope all this made sense and didn't offend

You WERE NOT possessed. First not one thing you mentioned can not be scientificly explained. Second if you were possessed you wouldn't have been able to distribute holy water and crosses through a house like that.

Intense is all I got to say....... hey I believe that you are not blowing smoke up anyone's crack. Religious propaganda my ass. People are just so bias to the human experience to where they will try to unrealistically reason away all possibilities of your experience just to start an argument or to just supposively shoot somebody else down. This is your experience and nobody knows how you feel but you and your wife and I respect that you share your experience with us all. All I know is that the outsider will never get it until they experience for themselves because it is a whole other world and it sucks that people can't relate to you but a few. I witnessed a less severe experience with my guy friend who was unique to begin with but he has been known to "dabble" and one night got himself in trouble. He was all into shaminism and would visit a shaman on a reservation ground from time to time. One night we were hanging out and studying government class for summer school and something slowly took control of him and and even though this guy was pretty wierd he was also one of those guys who always had a smile on his face and was positive. Well it happened so slowly like at first he felt wierd, and then he felt weak and light headed and next thing you know he started giving me directions like light candles and repeat a chant and me (all observing his psych and his physical state fascinated but at the same time getting little nervous) followed his directions. It was crazy because you see him as him but when you look into his eyes you can like see the evil coming over him and see the craziness (transformation) in his eyes and then next thing his voice changes and at first I was like quit playing we got to study because the test was in a couple of days and I got a little fed up and so I kind of pushed him like knock that crap off moron I'm serious we need an A for the test and I don't have time for your ritual bull$%&@. Well next thing I know he tried to attack me so out of reaction I punched him in his face and I punched him again (he never resorts to violence and always known as a good wierd guy who would not even hurt a fly if the Earth depended on its survival) because he came at me so fast that I kind of freaked out and then when he fell down I was in full self defense mode lookig all around me paranoid and waiting for him to get up so I can punch him even harder and even thought about kicking him in his nuts to see if he was really serious or not. Well his voice was in the between stage and he told me to do a chant and so I did ( I was pissed but at the same time observing all that was going on and it was like it the movies or something but seriously happening) and then he told me to fill a glass up with water and repeat a chant after him to the water and to throw it on him after I throw this little rock in the water. So I did that and I thew the water on him (not the glass) and he screamed like crazy like it was burning him so I was like what the @&%@!!! He then regain consciousness and I wasn't believing what just happened. After that he went into spiritual work mode and started to get down to business and he was PISSED to no end and he lit candles at certain angles, did chants, meditated, got serious on me and told me to do stuff so I just did it. Then after all that he did chants (I don't know what he said because it was in native tongue). It got quiet and then he said it was still here and I felt this cold cloud come across me and I was in full defense mode ( I admit I was scared but at the same time putting my mental defense up for any action). Then he grabbed some water, blessed it with chants and then sprinkled the whole apartment and he sprinkled him and me and it was just unbelievable. He said he was trying to trap it and then get rid of it out of the apartment. He then grabbed my hand and made me chant along with him and told me I better chant with seriousness and clear my mind and just chant and so I did and after that he said everything was okay and it was gone but he totally killed the study mode and I'm not going to lie I put a bible right under my bed and prayed before I slept and my friend just stood up all night refusing to sleep until daybreak. The next day I talked to him about it and we just discussed it over and we said if we told anyone else they would just laugh at us (being freshman college students) and have us check in at a mental ward so we really didn't talk about it afterwardsto others but I did thought about it from time to time and for some reason I felt good about it like a sense of accomplishment. My friend, on the other hand felt like that lifestyle was a burdon on his life and he hated it and all the other shamons make fun of him because they said he was lazy and he was too soft and modernized and not traditional. That was just one of many experiences that I've been in with the paranormal but like I said, nobody will understand until one has been in that time of the situation. Sorry if my response was lengthy but I had to get that off my chest and share to you as you shared to all of us (this is a discussion forum right???) and to let you know that you are not the only one out there who went through an experience bound to be shun by the outsiders even though your had to be a hundred times worse than my situation.

I agree with what Hammy just said I don't believe in hell or demons or possesion. No one can become possesed (yeah crappy spelling ). I haven't believed in hell and that sort of thing since grade nine for personal reasons which I'm not going to state here. And with everyone else here who said it might have something to do with sleeping and sleep. I agree.

You have made a good point on the boy in car crash. I once had a tumour for 8 years which God had allowed to happen but just last year I had the tumour removed and everything has been fine (I'm still accident prone though) I guess you would say that God and the devil did this to me. I'm not making any points just saying what happened, maybe you could correct me in this Heidi?!?!
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Thank you for the reply! Correct you in what way? On your thoughts? Sorry, wasnt sure what u meant.
Know that God doesnt create evil (bad)- evil does that itself. God allows it, and it is a part of this life, and as long as we are of God, we can overcome it. And we will be blessed for our faith! Again, we learn from bad, and what does not kill us makes us stronger.

I'm Bible believing, but am not flamed. Sometimes people have opinions about things they dont understand (myself included). This is one thing I do understand, and also accept. Things have happened to me that I didnt understand, that I hated, but accepted because I trust in God. I cant say if God was the one who created the Tsunami. If He was, then know that yes, it would be a lot like the flood, but God promised He would never flood the world again to destrol ALL mankind. He didn't say a country or place, but I can't say for sure what that was really about. Those people no, did not believe in God, and He may have done it to give them another chance at knowing Him- death is a reward, not a punishment. If the end times are coming like many believe, He may wanted them to have another chance at life, being born again, or, they may have missed their chances at knowing Him. God IS all loving, but only when someone loves Him back. How many times do we expect God to forgive us, when we continually slap Him in the face? OR...it could have been evil that created the Tsunami. God may have allowed it, for the same reasons I stated above.
Think of it this way:
Have you ever looked at the obituaries in the paper before? You feel bad, but you dont cry and upset yourself. You dont send flowers to their families, or attend the funeral...you turn the page and go on with your day, unaffected. That is how God is...Those that do not know God, God does not know them.

God forgives those who ask for forgiveness...I doubt many of them asked for that. I cant expand on the story of Job, because I dont know it well at all. But as far as Jesus, Jesus WAS God, who came in human form. What He went through was for us, to be a pure sacrifice for all our sins. I know it is hard to understand, and most of my life I never understood it, either. But I have been taking classes and studies and now I do understand. The life we know, the time and pain we know, is truly nothing. This life is a mere drop in the well to what really IS. Like, I cant recall the pain or hurt I had when I fell out a window at 5 years old, but I know it was a horrifying experience to me at that time. I recall the incident, but not the pain or fear. I learned from it- never to bounce on my bed (by a 2 story window) again lol BUt I dont recall any of the pain that came with it. Same thing, as at that time it was major to me...now, 29 years later, it's nothing but a distant memory. I know we do not learn w/o something to learn from...and we cant learn when all is perfect...why would we need God then? How would we learn if all was perfect? Some people need more than others, and that is why we go through a lot of what we do. Anything bad is of the devil, and God allows it, for our good- to give us chances to turn to Him. God saved me more than once, before I knew Him, and gave me plenty of chances. I'm just glad I found truth before it was too late. And in the meantime, my life is A LOT better now that He is in it!

You asked "why don't you just considerately kill all the people around you and grant them the reward?" The answer to that is because we did not create life, therefore we cannot take it, either. That is up to God, not us, when and how we meet our fate.
Yes, the Bible is man-made, but, God used chosen people to write His Word. And much of what is in the Bible can be proven- places, people, and even events today.

When you understand God, you accept what He does, and love Him, and life is more clear and less negative and people are less angry.

I guess I see God like I do a parent. I am a mom. I like when my kids do well. I like when they choose right from wrong. I am sad when they are crappy to me. I am angry when they do something wrong. When I come home from work and they have chosen to stay home and clean the house for me, make my dinner, make me a card, pick me some flowers, I am pleased. And I would be more apt to take themo ut for ice cream or forgive something they did w/o punishment, than the child who stole from me, bad mouthed me, slapped me in anger and broke things in my home.
Just consider God like a mother and father...how parents disciplaine thier kids when they do wrong...they dont enjoy it, but they do it to tecah their kids not to do it again. When one does wrong, they made mistakes. They were disciplined for it. At the time, being young, they didnt understand why their parents were so mad-why they made it such a big deal. But as they got older, they realized that those little scoldings and punishments taught them lessons. They dont remember the pain from the scolding but hopefully they learned the lesson from it.
I wont go on and on, I probably have already.
I see it this way- there is a consequence to everything in life. That includes how we live our life.
If I am wrong, then all I did was livce a good life. If you are wrong, then you will spend an eternity in hell. I wouldn't want to take that chance.

Christianity is man-made. I just follow the Bible. I guess I am just considered a Christian. I am one by choice.

Well alright, thanks for enlightening me on God, Heidi. Religion is a very complicated thingy anyway. As long as people feel good about believing in their God, whatever God that may be, the religion's fine IMO. Got a bit off topic here...

Well anyway if there's hell, there's heaven. So if you believe hard enough that the demon cant enter you anymore, he cant, cos you wont let him to. In one of my dreams Satan jumped into me and made me feel odd. But I just ignored it, so it hasnt really ever bothered me, or turned me into a murderous madman.

Everything in this world cannot be explained by science. We, as humans, always must get to the bottom of every little thing. We say we want proof, but when we get proof, it is dismissed as a hoax or propaganda. Somethings can't be explained, as human most humans minds are not open. We cant explain everything that happens, as Males only use roughly 5% of their brain, and females use roughly 10% of their brains. We're just not that Smart, and good riddance to it too, because if we were we'd probrally be telekenetic and we'd be killing each other left and right.


That's intresting desklight, I think you might be being "possessed" by the Beer Demon. curious, something about the beer company selling bottles of liquid substance which gives you those symptoms. Coincidence? no.

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Absolutely but this is NOT one of those things that can't be explained by science. Repeat after me just becuase it sounds like a ghsot doesn't mean its a ghost. STart with the simplest explanation if you can rule that out consider the paranormal. The simplest neatly explainst this so purely logicly we should assume thats the case. As to the percentage quote yawn thats the single most misunderstood and over quoted statement in nuerology. For starters its probably not entirely accurate. Secondly we use approximately 10%(either gender) of our brain at one time. NOT 10% in our entire lives. Imagine a library. At any given time only part of a library is ever used but its not always the same part. We use about 10% of the total brain mass at any given time. Which parts of the brain depend on what your trying to accomplish. The idea theres 90% of the brain we never use is a delusion.

If you're possessed i thought you don't remember it happening?

...i dont remember...

i have to say i belive you cause those who do not belive in god are easy targets for satan, i hope your story is true and not just a ru to get pepole to belive good luck

I must counter that, because I do not believe in god, just as much i don't believe in Satan. Satan is something the christians invented, you can easily see that by his appearance, because he bears a striking resemblance to Cernunnos, Pan and all the other forest gods. Horns, hooves, he's got it all. Same as for Hell, it was also 'invented' by the Christians, or rather taken over from the pagan Helheim from Germanic and Norse religions.

That's scary. I've seen the Exorcist once ( I know I shouldn't be watching those type of films ), and that was very scary. My silly advice is to get a priest

Lets see Satan looks like a dragon or a serpent(see Revelation 12). Pan/Cernunnos/et al are humanoid figures with the legs of goats and horns. No sorry I don't see the resembelence in any way shape or form. The Pan bs was INVENETED by artists in the late middle ages and appears not once any where in traditional Christian lore or scripture. The anthropological roots of Satan can most likely be traced to gods like Set, Ahriman, Loki and Tiamat as well as malevolent dragons like the Egyptian Apophis or the Norse Jormungler. Hell has an equivalent in almost every major religion in the world through out recorded history. Buddhists have thousands of hells, Hindus think people are damned to return here and be punished for there crimes, the Greeks believed the Gods sent the wicked to the realm of Tartarus(although there Hades wasn't much more pleasant), the Hebrew people call it Gehenna, the Egyptians had a dark underworld and a crockadile God who devoured the wicked.

In short the elimination of the spiritual principle of evil and a realm for the damned is a 100% modern invention. It was created by simplistic new agers who in there mad rush to escape any thing remotely christian never properly researched the beliefs they were borrowing from.

Pan was not invented by artists. And for more, the Christians did indeed 'convert' or 'diabolise' certain aspects of our old religion, this to ease the conversion to christianity. What i said is that 'Hel' (that's what it is called over here) has been taken over (this to be the same realm as in our old religion), in order to make our ancestors convert much easier. And Cernunnos appeared in Celtic objects as a person with antlers, or stag horns. And over here, the devil is also portrayed as a person with hooves and horns. I should have some nice materials of this, but i will post it in another post, since i have to find it first.

-- And i am not a new ager who thinks there is no realm for damnation, since i do not feel connected to any new age movement whatsoever, since they are a blasphemy to our heritage.--