can someone explain to me there connection between the Free Masons and the Knights Templar... because i know that the Church organized the Knights Templar, so basically they became so powerful the Templar and the church excuted them... but is their a connection between the Free Masons and The Knights Templar, can someone explain it!!

It's pretty well established that after the Templars went undergorund to escape the Inquisitions, some of them went to Scotland where they were either the founders of Scotitsh Rite Freemasonery, or infiltrated their lodges.

hmmm interesting.. anymore facts guys? also could anyone provide me with a really good link, i would appreciate it, thank you!

There aren't a whole lot of "facts" available.

Fact: The Templars kind of established themselves - THEN went and got Church approval after the King of Jerusalem granted them the authority to provide security for pilgrims to the Holy Land.

Fact: The Templars were stamped out by King Phillip and Pope Clement in the early 1300s.

Fact: When the Templars were stamped out, none of the alleged "riches" and "secrets" were recovered in the Templar HQ.

Fact: Nearly the entire Templar fleet was in port on Thursday, the 12th... but was nowhere to be seen on the morning of Friday the 13th, when the Order was stamped out.

Legend has it that not all Templars were "destroyed" and their fleet went north to Scotland and thence to "Merick" or "Merica", the "shinng jewel across the sea to the west" in old Jewish legends.

Legend has it that the Freemasons were started by the disenfranchised Templars, however there is over 400 years time between the loss of the Templars and the start of the Freemasons (as we know them).

There are lots of "stories" that link the two organizations, but there are no real sustainable facts that support the stories.

In York Rite Freemasonry (the Christian-based side), there is a group called "The Knights Templar" which appears to be loosely based on military style and sounds "knightly". The ritual is based on the legends of supposedly what the Knights Templar went through to become a full fledged Knight.

So, in conclusion, there are some good stories, but no real proof that the two groups are related in the way you are looking at. Much more likely is the probability that the Freemasons saw a really cool story and wanted to nudge themselves into more history, giving the group a "firmer" hold on legitimacy... so, rather than just a club, they have a "historical" club.

Three things Malruhn: Scottish Rite, the Sinclairs and Rossyln Chapel.
The Sinclairs claimed they were decendents of the Templars.

awww very nice, but are there any good links or sources you could link me that i could click on and check out?

Okay, DJ, three things explained... or not as the case may be...

The "Scottish" Rite is named thus as it began allegedly in Scotland, although there is reason to believe that it started in the US and was given made-up history to SOUND like it started in Scotland. I am not involved in that body, but it deals with more mysticism involving some of the ritual in the first three degrees - and has nothing to do with the Templars (other than discussing lots of desert).

The SinClairs are an anomoly - they have a very old family and I can't speak too much about it for fear of getting stuff wrong. Just because they "claim" something doesn't mean that it is true. Hey, I can "claim" to be a descendant of Santa Claus - but it doesn't mean I wear red!!

Rosslyn Chapel just screws me all up. It was finished some 25 years before Chris Columbus made the voyage in 1492, and has statuary and designs of maize (corn) and the aloe cactus - both of which were unknown in Europe and only exist in the Americas. I can't explain that one away...

BUT - just because it can't explained logically doesn't mean that we should immediately leap to unfounded conclusions!!

Lucid, let me search for a good linky that doesn't get too far into the conspirasphere.

what exactly are the freemasons? I know they're some weird group thing, but what exactly do they do? Ive been wondering for ages, I just don't get it.

The're some type of socio-political brotherhood that extends way back in history and had prominent freemasons in many aspects of business and government, but I'm not sure why.

devil and satan worship has been linked to them

thanx for all your insight.. but i need sources guys so i can read up on it.. like a good one =)...

Rubbish.
Too long to explain the whole history, but there where occult lodges in Europe, and splinter organizations such as the Rosecrucians who used Masonic degrees and where organized into lodges.


Malruhn, what source are you using to suggest that Scottish Rite started in America?

cmon people we need sources =)

I can recomend some books that I've read on the subject:

The Templar Revelation
Hiram's Key
Freemasonery and the Birth of Modern Science
The Stone Puzzle of Rossyln Chapel
The Master and the Lodge

BTW,
Start with The Templar Revelation.

i think i did read this book and i have it.. are you talking about the book called "The Knights Templar and Oak Island"?? because ive read that book its actually quite interesting...

No Lucid. I've never heard of that book.

ok i will go buy it... is it good?

Engaged people are dangerous, those with low education could be driven towards sects to control them. For more educated people how are they going to do so ? Well with the same kind of organisation but more "elitist" and "intellectual" and they won't call it sect but look at their rituals ... .

For their ritual are as ridiculous as in any sect see exerpt below from the Hiram Key. And the purpose is like in many sects: conduct members to accept to do ridiculous things which then prove they will obey the organisation even against their personal aspiration for the sake of the "cause" (whatever it is it's just a pretext so that it can be completely fuzzy ). So there are many brilliant and good people in Freemasonry - of course they are also crooks as in many organisations - but they can easily be perveted and controlled if and when needed. In fact it is the most intelligent who must be controled in the first place : they are more dangerous for the super elites than ignorant people. It's better to coopt them to serve the super elites than to fight them.


Commented exerpts from "The Hiram Key" (book written by two freemasons) http://www.caterpillar.org.uk/warning/masonry.htm

WHAT IS A FREEMASON?
A man who joins a society which he knows nothing about.
The two authors of the book "The Hiram Key", Chris Knight and Robert Lomas, bear this statement out in an article printed in the Yorkshire Post, 11 May 1996. Please bear in mind that what you are reading herewith is not a criticism but pure fact. Both these men are Freemasons .

They write: "A compelling reason for silence amongst Masons is not so much a compulsion to adhere to their sacred vows, or a fear of macabre retribution from their fellows: it is more that they do not understand a word of the ceremonies they participate in, and their only fear is that people would laugh at the apparently pointless and silly rituals they perform...

Our biggest criticism of freemasonry is its sheer pointlessness. It does not know where it came from, no one seems to know what it is trying to achieve, and increasingly it seems improbable that it can have much of a future in a world that demands a clarity of purpose and benefit." End quote.

Had he made a thorough investigation of the beliefs and ultimate aims of this group, it is clear that, unless he was lacking in either morality or intelligence, he would never have thought of joining such an organisation.

Imagine for a moment, the man who has spent night after night of his valuable time, sitting up in bed, manual in hand, repeating the beliefs and obligations contained therein, to his long-suffering and patient wife, who obviously feels her time could be more usefully employed.

The shock must be absolutely devastating to such a man in any of the three initial degrees in the Blue Lodge when he finds out (and sometimes he never does) that all this learning was in vain as he reads the following statement from Albert Pike.1

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them, but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explanation is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." End quote.

I would suppose that any red-blooded Mason would immediately fly into an uncontrollable rage and storm out in a search and destroy mission, on those who allowed this deception to continue.

All readers, who have taken the vows, and repeated the obligations of any of the first three degrees in the Blue Lodge, please stand in front of a mirror and repeat out loud to yourself:

"I've been taken for a ride. Was I not lacking in wisdom to join a society that I knew nothing about. To make it worse, I believed the lies they fed me. How do I get myself out of this mess?

Okie...... thank you Laura, you pretty much just broke that down for me hahha... where were you earlier.. but im still going to buy that book you suggested QUINN thank you!

HAHA Quinn i was looking through my bookshelf and guess what i found... THE TEMPLARS REVELATION haha!!! ima read it tonight... thanks buddy!

You should find it interesting Lucid.

As promised, some links:

A Templar History Page - both history and mythology

200Kb PDF file on basic Freemasonry - a very well laid out lesson.

A VERY basic Masonic 101 course - good place to start.


Amazing list of links to essays by a prolific Masonic writer - be warned as some links are broken.


And Laura, The Hiram Key is laughable. In the first two or three pages the authors talk about "What if this happened? What if that meeting took place? What if this guy was the father of that guy? Based upon these FACTS(ed: !!!), we draw the following conclusions..."

They are basing conclusions on things they are admitting as being conjecture and legend - and some outright lies.

Thank you for all the sources i appreciatie it Malruhn... ill take a look at these, thank you.