in the beginning, the gods created man?
the gods made the decisions of who lived, and for how long...
the gods decided when you die, and how....

but man has always aimed to defy the gods,
it is his nature.

man develops cures for disease, defying the gods.
man develops fertility treatments, defying the gods.
man develops ways to kill, defying the gods.

man wants to be a god!

so why do the religious accept the violations of the gods?

should not the religious accept their destiny and reject the knowledge of man?

Quite contrary. It is not the nature of man to defy God, but rather to seek Him.

What makes you think that a lot of religions don't do just that? Remember Galileo. Then there is our own Ashley-starchild. All you have to do is say evolution and he is on it like a fly on stink.

Man vs. God?

Hmm...it's been a long time since any question of attainment of higher levels of spirituality has arisen that carries any degree of credibility or demands serious consideration. It's very satisfying to be in a position to pass judgement on matters of such universal importance.
But nothing is free and the responsibility that is bestowed upon me is of equal magnitude. Not that I'm over-confident or improperly egotistical, but I'm sure that it's in the best hands. Quite frankly it would be a completely overwhelming burden for any other sentient being.

After all,


I am alpha and omega.
I am the beginning and the end.
I am the first and the last.
I am all and none.
I am never and always.
I am friend and enemy.
I am now and then.
I am before and after.
I am truth and deceit.
I am earth and sky.
I am wind and water.
I am peace and war.
I am hot and cold.
I am hard and soft.
I am right and wrong.
I am early and late.
I am fire and brimstone.
I am you and you are me.
I am good, bad and ugly.

No, wait, that's three things. Ahem...


I am good and bad.
I am bad and ugly.
I am good and ugly.

There, that's better. Now where was I?


I am guns and butter.
I am friend and enemy.

Oops, I think I said that one already. Ok, chill out. Let's keep moving...


I am yes and no.
I am maybe and maybe not.
I am stars and stripes.

Uh...uh...uh...what else...


I am steel and wool.
I am charcoal and grill.
I am dog and cat.
I am a rock and a hard place.
I am chicken and dumplings.
I am paper and scissors.
I am beer and pizza.
I am Heckle and Jeckle.
I am cheesecake and gingerale.
I am...
I am...

What else am I?
What else could I be?
Can I make a rock so big that I can't move it?
What the hell is all this about anyway?

Oh, sh**, what was that? Did you see that? I'm sure I saw something over there? What was that? It feels like this room is getting smaller. That's impossible isn't it? No, wait, it's not impossible, is it? Anything is possible for me, right?

Let me outta here...I gotta go get some fresh air. Damned paradoxes. Stinking no good cosmic questions all the time. sh**. Nuts. Crap. Later.
I'll be back when I get back. Don't wait up for me.
Well that's the way it is and if you don't like it, tough sh*t...


- Yowza
god@mediaco.com





Sowy, I'm in a mood. I'll get back when I'm on a more serious tip.

Is man made in God's image, or is god made in man's image?

Turtle, the perfect explanation for everything without a God is that nothing should exist.
Yet here we are.

the perfect explanation for everything without a god is before us!

the perfect explanation for the creation of a perfect being would be perfection! clearly the universe is not perfection, thus this god does not exist!

Hyperactive,there is no imperfection in His creation, and that which we see as imperfection is our own ignorance, and not the system in itself. Thus for someone to say that the universe is imperfect, one has to admit that it is their mind that does not conceive it properly, and the system that the mind did not conceive it properly is the part of a perfect design. So for one to reject that would be tantamount to putting cart in front of the horse.The question should be "does God not exist?"

the real question should be "why waste time over something like gods?"

gods are irrelevent to humanity. they serve no purpose. they are dunsels!

respect yourself, respect your part of the whole, respect the nature of the universe.

the imperfection in his creation is in the imperfection of his being created!

worry about the real forces that effect you rather than the imaginary almighty ones that do nothing!

man wants to be a god, and the one god wants to be a man. for something so almighty and all-powerful it sure does a poor job of it! the gods need man to exist, man does not need the gods to exist! we have the power, if we choose to exercise it, or we can waste it away throwing ourselves at the feet of phantoms!

So God planned on galaxies spinning into each other and causing havoc then?

In theory, nature tends towards a balance, because that's the only way it can exist...predators cannot survive if they don't have enough prey, and their population will fall...on a similar vein, the population of prey will then rise with fewer predators, providing more food so the predator population can rise again, and then the process starts again.

There is an order to the natural world that is based purely on limitations...it has nothing to do with design. Quite frankly, I can't believe that anything looking to create a perfect system would create something so capable of wanton recklessness as mankind

And please, don't try and claim the universe is in perfect design...it's constantly expanding, bits of it are flying around banging into each other and, perhaps most unforgivable of all, if (as the bible claims) earth is the only life bearing planet....then it's one hell of a big waste of space

If it were a case of Man vs God, what would the objective be. How exactly would either of those two go about defeating each other?

Order and disorder are the two necessary conditions for the universe to exist.

"The secrets of the primeval deep, a dark Illimitable Ocean without bound, without dimension, where length, breadth, and height, and time and place are lost; where eldest Night and Chaos, ancestors of Nature, hold Eternal Anarchy, amidst the noise of endless wars, and by confusion stand.

"For hot, cold, moist, and dry, four Champions fierce strive here for Mastery, and to Battle bring their embryonic Atoms; they around the flag of each his faction, in their several clans, light-armed or heavy, sharp, smooth, swift or slow, swarm populous, unnumbered as the sands of Barca or Cyrene’s torrid soil, levied to side with warring winds, and poise their lighter wings. To whom these most adhere, he rules a moment; Chaos Umpire sits, and by decision more embroils the fray by which he reigns: next him high Arbiter Chance governs all.

"Into this wild Abyss, the Womb of nature and perhaps her Grave, of neither Sea, nor Shore, nor Air, nor Fire, but all these in their pregnant causes mix confusedly, and which thus must ever fight, unless the’ Almighty Maker them ordain His dark materials to create more Worlds!"

1)God has planned our life and we all have a destiny.
2)defy God how...?
3)God gives us knowledge to cure disease
4)man gets knowledge from God to make fertility drugs..how is this defying God if we have the capacity to think. God gave us knowledge and he could take it away like that.
5) man are egotistical and need to be the center of attention that is all
6)Violating God How by letting medicine cure the ailments of our bodys also with prayer?
7)No why should we that would be absurd!

@101:

if all the knowldge we have is a gift from god, how can any of it be bad?

ex) why do christian fundies protest abortion if it knowledge from god?

when man was a primative animal, he hid in fear of the gods he created. as man learned, he put those gods aside and assumed responsibility for his own destiny.

Knowledge from God is both good and evil- we know evrything. But I don't understand what you mean are you asking why God would allow his children to know of this evil?

Those people I um can't really say but I will....abortion is killing...therefore it is wrong in the eyes of God. And just because some group protests this doesn't mean they are directed by God but by their own selfih reasons.

I hate abortion. Abortionists should just ohhhhh.

To fear God...well I believe to a point we should fear him but not hide from him because we are afraid of our eternal life...This is silly. man are weak minded and choose to make decisions based on lack of knowledge because they don't seek it. This is why man has hid from God. But there is no reason.

When man (the Image of God) became a primitive physical animal, he had the senses of his ANIMA (soul or image) awaken, thus, he knew that God was within him as his Real Self or Spirit; but when this primeval creature became identify with this physical world, he forgot his real nature and became an intellectual mammal (a Naked Beast), thus, he knew fear towards the unknown. As an intellectual mammal (Naked Beast) he learned more about this materialistic world and he created theories and beliefs, and by putting his inner God aside he then looked for security within the labyrinths (images) of his own mind.

That staff closely resembles the staff that Hermes had.

a reply from loge is not complete without a picture!

surely he has a vast library of images to draw from.

yes loge, man was a god in his ignorance. then something stirred and his ignorance became apparent. now he seeks to end the ignorance and compete the cycle. man will once again, in all his arrogance, return to being a god.

And the circle will be complete.

Without the help of Aphrodite and Hermes man cannot complete the cycle, because his arrogant Intellect and lustful psyche are obstacles to become a True Hermaphrodite God again!

I'll pass on that.

Loge, do you just copy and paste things from other websites when you reply?

I am curious as to why Hermes is holding a floating pyramid in his hand...

Talent! Pure talent!


Actually I like that picture. I'm glad you mentioned it because it now affords me the opportunity to thank Loge for sharing with the rest of the class.

Hermes as identified with the Egyptian God Thoth, the legendary author of works on alchemy, astrology, and magic.


Masons state that the Pyramid was built by Hermes before the Flood to preserve knowledge of the secret (hermetic) sciences.

My hermetic approach is scientifically tested by aphrodisiac or better said Dionysian thoughts. This is why my hermeticism escapes your comprehension since you lack this aphrodisiac-source-substance; you misplace it through seduction.

Oh damn, that's priceless! *snort*

Oopsie, I meant to add something here; I do love that Hermetic image Lo. But aren't we prohibited from hot linking images onto this site? (*re: my Penguins image, Best Smilies, the source for that loop, grants permission for hot linking, so that is not in any way a violation. )

God doesnt say when or how you die. Things just happen. I can either randomly get a knife and slit my throught, or change my mind and cut my wrist, or I can wait untill tommorow or next week to do it. God is ALLOWING things to happen, he's not setting a date on your death.

but if you slit your throat, do you not violate his will and go to the bad places?

just the same as saving lives with medicine and technology is violating his will!

if the divine rules your house, then you lay down at its mercy and accept your fate!

Why did my post get erased?

I was asking a question.

Drats, another attack of the dread Gremlin eraser meanies!? Get on board 101, we have a mission!

Thwart the meanies and repost your question Amalgamut.

@goddesswhispers:

you remind me of a second loge with all the graphics!

Yes, maybe they should get married.

would that give us logewhispers or goddessloge?

How does saving someone's life go against the will of God?

Hey! ^^^^That was my question! (before it got deleted)

simple: it everything is to run according to his plan, then when man alters his plan with medication, or operation he is altering the plan. if god designed you, then your genetics are made to run a course. if you are programmed with a disease or a susseptability to a disease, then that would be part of his plan. when man steps in, he alters the plan, and thus defys the gods.

He created the first humans, the rest is just from genes. He doesnt say "Hey, you're going to catch a disease". And also, some people catch AIDS wich weakens your immune system and makes them more prone to death and other diseases. God doesnt have your life planned out for you.

your right about the planning part since he does not exist!

but if he did, and he knew all, then your life would indeed be predetermined! (in more ways than just premapped in your genes)

Like I said before, he allows things to happen, nothin is "planned out for you".

What scripture says you can't use medicine to cure people?

everything is preplanned if he is all knowing. if man did not alter the genome, that too would be preplanned depending on environmental factors.

duality is false: if it is wrong to kill (including yourself) it is wrong to save (including yourself).

Why it would be GoddessLoge of course! Otherwise he'd run the risk of having people exclaim; "Speak louder!"



Then, if he allows things to happen, given the broad range of events that do occur, what's the use of prayer save to beg, for him to intercede? And why would it be necessary to beg for god to not let something horrific to occur, outside of mortal power to alter the outcome themselves, if we are to believe god loves his creation?

*Not meant as disrespect to any faith, it's a question to further the position taken by ZS. in this discussion.

Hyperactive,firstly don`t speak absolute,I believe He exist.You fail to understand this whole "All-Knowing" part of God.

Just as we can easily see a ruler’s beginning, middle, and end, and all the units in between as a whole, God knows the time we are subject to as if it were a single moment right from its beginning to its end. People, however, experience incidents only when their time comes and they witness the destiny God has created for them.
This is the very essence of the concept of destiny – a concept that is not well understood by most people.Destiny is God’s perfect knowledge of all events past or future."Events not yet experienced" are only so for us. God is not bound by time or space, for He Himself has created them. For this reason, past, future, and present are all the same to God; for Him everything has already taken place and finished.

That`s why He is All-knowing.Nothing is planned out,yet He allready knows what path in life we`ll take.We have choices.

@imam:

really? sounds like doublespeak to me!

he avoids the issues of time-space binding, does he?

well, that certianly proves one thing about the biblegod......

as for absolutes, i am sure he does exist in your mind so i was not saying he does not.

but if we speak free of absolutes, then you must as well and in doing so admit he is not the absolute god (but at best one perspective of what a creative force could be).

if he knows all: again going by your post, while we don't know the predetermination, he does! the paradox of course is that he also knows how we will interefere with his plan and does not step in to do anything. a corollary of that could be presented that he has no plan, but merely knows all. the contradictions to the all-knowing are well documented though. he does not know all, at all. even if he has a plan in place, he can not enforce it! again, if it is against him to cut life short, it is against him to extend it! besides, if you know (and not just believe) in the promised afterlife why put up such a fight getting there? it should be a glorious event, that of meeting your maker! so why fear it? why fight it? because you are not absolutely certian of its reality?

religions come and religions go. the notion that one is more correct than another is preposterous!

@ Goddess

Sorry I didn't come and attack faster. I will be ready to attack next time. Those gremlins are too fast. And I think they just have something againist Amal. Poor thing. I will capture the Gremlins and anilate them.

a hyperactive Amalgamut

@loge:

which one are you in that picture? ( or can you not be certian because there must not be that much of a difference!) (how silly, it is more fun when we debate something of substance, but oh well..... i am just joking with you... "your a good joe" )

Interesting questions.. i have to say as far as that is concern i dont think i could have an awnser for that... i mean i no that no matter what people always pray and look up to their God's for what i dont no..