In today's society, many intellects and scientist scoff at the concept of and at those who believe that there is an afterlife. Yet, it really doesn’t take a rocket scientist to believe such places as Heaven & Hell really exist... just a willingness to weigh the evidence and decide for yourself.

Whether or not an afterlife exists all hinges upon a single question we must answer before we go any further... Does God Exists?

If God does not exist, the Bible is not inspired by the Creator; all the good in it measures up to nothing but lies, deception and fraud… and there is no afterlife. In addition, our lives have no ultimate meaning, there is no absolute morality, there is no right and wrong except what powers dictate them and ultimately... death’s holds no meaning. When we die, that is it... End Game.

If God does exist, then the Bible is true, God's Word & thus reliable. And everything it says about God's love for us, Heaven and Hell; about morality, justice, punishment, mercy and the concepts of right and wrong... - ARE ALL FOR REAL. -And that's powerfully, scary and exciting stuff!


But Which Answer Is Correct?


It's not my job to tell you the answer... that's why we all have brains...to think and decide for ourselves. I can convince you about God, but that is worthless unless you convince yourself... then you will be doubly convinced and confident.

My favorite book on this topic is Josh McDowell's "Evidence That Demands A Verdict" series. He looks at God and Christ from a biblical and secular history viewpoint to determine if Jesus really was the Lord, a Liar or a complete Lunatic. And he checks historical records for evidence that Jesus Christ actually rose from the dead 3 days later. Then he let's you weigh the evidence for yourself.


Eternal Insight #1

We are all free to love God, accept Christ and enter Heaven... of our own choosing! Or we can reject them and live life on our own terms. That's called "Free Will."

And both decisions carry a price tag... Heaven's Entry Fee was paid by Jesus for you. Hell's Entry Fee is paid by "you."

God is a gentleman, he never forces anyone to enter Heaven or Hell against their own desire. He only wants people to come into his home who want to be there with him on his terms.

And that's where today's society has it's biggest problems with God, the Bible, the church, afterlife and eternity... it seems so narrow-minded to them.


Eternal Insight #2

Allow me to make a simple observation to see if God is as narrow-minded as we think he is...

As a homeowner, you enjoy the right and privilege of allowing or barring others access to your home. You don't allow dirty shoes into your home unless the person takes them off or cleans them...right?

Well, so does God... Heaven is his home.
He's the homeowner and that gives him every right to turn away dirty souls from entering his home... right? So, why do people have a problem with him on this matter?

Because the only two houses on eternity's block are Heaven and Hell... there is no third option. And if there was, God and everything good that comes from him...would not be there either. The source of all that is good comes from or dwells in Heaven. And conversely, the source of all that is evil dwells in or comes from Hell. There's no room in eternity for a third option.


Eternal Insight #3


There are many religions, cults, belief-systems ...etc. regarding God, death and eternity. So, I'm sure some may be thinking... "What makes you think you have all the right answer(s)?"

That's a fair question... in short, I don't have all the answers...just a portion. When I was younger, I resolved to discredit the Bible, God and Jesus Christ. After growing up in church, hearing how disappointed God was in me, I was sick of religion, hated my Creator and had had enough of all the religious phoneys out there.

I began to challenge and question all my beliefs. If I didn't believe it personally... it became suspect. I sought out evidence to disprove God and instead, I was buried under tons of evidence for his existence in science, reality, spiritually, historically, personally...etc. I was shocked!

The problem was religion... in other words, man's feeble attempt to pretend they know God and have the nerve to speak for him. In reality, nobody has all the pieces, but God will provide the answers to those who seek him. Don't trust any man when it comes to eternity... they've never been there... but God has!


Comments?

Although I'm not entirely sure what type of discussion this thread is going to bring, the writing sounds professional and I am impressed by whoever wrote it; yourself or somebody else.
This is a very positive thread because you have a mostly unbiased view of the situation and don't want to show anybody the "right" belief but let them find it for themselves. In a perfect world, more people would be like this.

There have been two threads just like this one, but I think they get locked and removed. Not sure why.

yup, they disappear. i think the board gremlins don't appreciate answers that cost $14.95.

well... if gods exist, the bible came a bit late to the table, didn't it now?

if one religion is correct in there being a unifiying consciousness, then they are all right.

if there isn't one,then they are all wrong (well, except the panthesitic ones that is. we already understand the interconnectedness of nature)

in the meantime, far too much time is wasted on this irrelevence! you KNOW you have a life now, so live it rather than wasting it away with hopes of some magical wonderplace.

QUOTE(Amalgamut @ May 26 2005, 08:51 PM)

There have been two threads just like this one, but I think they get locked and removed. Not sure why.
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Perhaps it's yet another swoop and attack of the dread Gremlin eraser meanies!?

With respect to the initial posting and inquiry: (sic) "just a willingness to weigh the evidence and decide for yourself. "

What evidence? Near death experiences are intriguing, however science tends to scoff at the experience, which I do not btw, and yet those experiences are limited in their scope because the people that had them return to consciousness.

Therefore there is no solid evidence of an after life. There are theories and faiths that ascribe such a thing in their texts , throughout history, however those texts are also faith based and drafted by people, whether they were alleged to be divinely inspired or otherwise.

As for me, I prefer to be optimistic and yet and hold to what I think I know.
I know that all things are energy and that energy can not be destroyed, only reformed. (Religions ascribe to that ideal in varying ways as well). Therefore I don't worry about what happens after I die because I'll find out when the time comes and then all those subjective opinions I held to in this life will matter not because they are quite literally immaterial then.

Meanwhile I believe that what I do with the time I have to live my life is what matters because it's what effects my environment. I therefore believe it's incumbent on my personal character to do what I can to make the most of it and contribute to making the living of this life a positive experience for myself and those I encounter on the journey .

I think they have shut it down because it is spam. Somebody is selling a book. No matter what the message is the forum is not the place for advertising.

The previous version of this thread was removed as it was construed as spam, the thread starter is clearly trying to advertise a book - which is not what this forum is here for.

The commercial product signature link has also been removed.

Well that certainly clears up the suspicion of dread gremlin eraser meanies, swooping in again. I guess the first clue would have been in his screen name; Author JD Howes

Regardless, they did open an opportunity for an interesting discussion.

Yes he does post some interesting topics.

And, my afterlife is quite nicely taken care of, thank you very much.

No, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to believe, just a trust to the point of gullibility. Nothing that might impact your life in a positive or negative manner should be accepted by faith. Only through research into the pros and the cons of the subject will you obtain the truth.



It seems to me that you have jumped to the conclusion that only the Judeo-Christian God is the true God. God can exist without the bible being inspired by the Creator; I would love to hear your explanation for all the evil and horror reported in the bible and all of the contradictions – the many reasons that I see the bible as only mythology filled with lies, deception and fraud. Just because your God doesn’t exist does not negate the possibility of an afterlife. The Afterlife was believed in long before your religion toddled onto the stage of life and will be believed in long after Christianity is only a bad memory in mankind’s history. I do not know why Christians think there can be no morality without God. All societies (even those that are basically atheistic) have a code of morals, many of which are even more stringent than Christianity. When you say, “there is no right and wrong except what powers dictate them”, isn’t that what your God is doing? I see no difference there! We are more than able to live a life with meaning without your God and to say that dead holds no meaning, if you only get one time around (not my belief), then death would definitely hold a meaning, just not in the way you think. As I said before, if God exists (something that we Deists accept), it does not necessarily make the bible anything more than mythology or that Hell or Heaven exist. I have never seen any conclusive evidence that your God is the one true God.




Having read McDowell’s drivel, I can tell you that it is biased and one-sided with no attempt to look at the other side of the argument. He never thinks of the fact that Jesus could have been neither the Lord, a Lair or a Lunatic, but instead have been a poor itinerate Rabbi that was in the wrong place at the wrong time or a Jewish freedom fighter on the lines of the Essene “Teacher of Righteousness”. I will admit, he attempts to check those records that are ambiguous enough that by squinting your eyes and putting your fingers in your ears and humming real loud, might be accepted as evidence of a historical Jesus, totally ignoring the fact that either they were written long after the fact, were out and out “pious frauds” or of questionable date. He started his book with the personal opinion that there was a historical Jesus and skewed all evidence in a pathetic attempt of justify his belief. Yes, I am very familiar with McDowell and his ilk – pious liars for the religion, along the lines of Bishop Esuebius of the 4th century CE.




There is no evidence for this contention and common sense would tell you that any god that punished infinitely for finite sins; not only wouldn’t be a god of love and compassion, but instead would warrant the title of “Demon”.



You know, the free will that your god offers is conditional, with strings attached – do as I say or burn for eternity….that is not free will, that is coercion! We Deists believe that the Creator gave us true free will, no strings attached, no “My way or the highway”. To interfere with his creation is to remove the free will granted and he loves us too much for that! As for a price tag for entry into your quite possibly mythical Heaven (you don’t accept the Elysian Fields, I don’t accept your Heaven); why would a loving compassionate God demand a blood sacrifice for the redemption of his creation. For that matter, who made the rule that only that act would provide redemption….I thought he was the supreme god, so who is his boss?




You evidentially are from the North. In the South we believe in hospitality and willingly clean up behind those we guest. In theory, we do reserve the right to turn people away from our door, but usually make arrangements for them to stay, in comfort, elsewhere. Your “home owner” has too strict rules and send people to eternal torment – what kind of host is that?



Strange, I have been doing the same since I was a teenager back when Rock and Roll was the new music (1960’s) and I have found no evidence of your god and a lot of evidence against the existence of your god and his son. I would be very happy to review all the “evidence” that you have accumulated, you can post it on this thread and we will evaluate it.
I am sure you probably will never return to this site, much less answer or debunk my posting - too bad, it would have been a nice debate - Mako

Mako, you know that person isn't going to read a word you just said, right?

Mi Amigo, I know that, but when someone comes on with that arrogant "I'm so much holier than you" attitude, I just have to rant - even if it is a waste of time! As CD says, "Gao figger"! - Mako the ranter

i read it mako. good points! i was too lazy to post anything lengthy in case the thead ended up in the trash-bin again.

PRAISE BE TO ALLAH!!

you converted?!?

i betterlook outside to see if pigs are flying!

Edit: Removed inappropriate content.
If you'd like to ramble on about how you are being mistreated by the webmaster or moderators, feel free to contact them. Do not post it in the forums, because once again, that's breaking the rules.
BurnSide

And to think I passed on buying stock in an umbrella company!

Hey JD, I think you book looks interesting. I will have to give it a try sometime.

Jd calm down I liked it. It was very nice. maybe we can purchase it later.

Took the words from my mouth.

I didn't realize you were advertising something or I would have said it. UM does not snuff out books you may be writing, or products, but because of what always evolves from that, I can see why it's not allowed; I am also a writer and am working on my first full novel, and I've had people discuss my ideas freely.

This is different. Posting information on your book isn't bad, but just remember there is a limit. A forum is to share ideas, yes, but not to sell your product. This is one of the last strongholds that has not been infected with the greed of human nature. I hope you haven't gotten a negative impression, although judging by your post, you did.

Bravo, Raven.
You hit that nail right on the head.

Now JD, if want to actually discuss what you posted people have expressed interest.

Pretty interesting stuff JD. I'm dealing with the afterlife pretty much the same as you seem to be (although we may disagree on some of the specifics ).

At any rate, I think this could be a good discussion if we get it back on track.