this is where did the engineering design for pyramids come from
as in who came up with the idea for building them in that fashion.
and pyramids refers strictly to smooth sided ones.
not stepped or ziggurats or temples in mesoamerica
it doesn't refer to who actually built them. we know the egyptians did that.

IT's very difficult the pyramid shape could have come from civilizations, such as the romans, which belong to a much later period. Some pyramids in Greece might be more ancient than the first egyptian pyramids, however, I think it's more plausible the pyamid shape was developed many times in the course of history, by civilizations without contacts of any kind, rather than to think to a "model" for all later pyramids.

The pyramid is just the 3 dimensional "version" of the triangle, any culture with a developped mathematic knowledge could have known it. It's like asking "who invented the cube?"

Sumerians designed ziggarauts didn't they?

yep.
they started building them from 4500bce.....
they allegedly represent the mountains from which their ancestors came.
in most ziggurats there is a ground level burial chamber, that is normally found empty.
Sumerian history is a mess of one faction triumphing over another.
when each new line of kings comes to power the first thing they did was eliminated the opposition. That meant throwing their ancestors out into the scrap heap and claiming their chamber for your own dynasty. Of course later on another faction comes in and out goes the tomb contents again.
The first ziggurats were simply temples that were added to, which mirrors the first pyramid of egypt which is at saqquara and started off as a mastaba.



Dark Lord "the pyramid shape could have come from civilizations, such as the romans, which belong to a much later period. " you sure ?

i like your metaphor but if i ight add to it....
" It's like asking who invented the cube? that is 400 feet high and faced with limestone slabs"
not quite so simple

I like Graham Hancock's assertions about there being a pre-history filled with potential answers (which would likely lead to more questions). There's just too much suddeness in recorded history. For the last 500 years or so (circa Leonardo), it's been relatively easy to trace who was standing on who's shoulders. Beyond that it gets problematic because we don't have enough credible evidence.

I thought graham hancocks assertions were that there was a super race that built all the famous monuments of the world in 10,000 bce.
If he's saying that a lot of history is lost to us in the mists of time crap again then well yes
that a little obvious dontcha think

If an ancient people wanted to "touch the heavens", isn't a pyramid shaped structure the best way? They didn't know how to build towers. So a pyramid seems feasible.

If the pyramids were built so that priests could touch the heavens, then why have smooth sided pyramids
how many priests do you think could stand on the top reaching upwards.
Thats a phrase that i've heard before but i don't think it has any basis in fact
The Sumerians certainly didn't build temples so that they could be close to god.
they built temples because from a defensive point of view they are unbeatable and for public displays the best format available

When I was younger, I actually thought that the dead Egyptian kings were put in top portion of the pyramids, as it was closest to heaven.

What about those pyramids in Central/South America? Those have steps at least.

And out of curiousity, Marduk, how do you know all these thigs?

marduk... its 3/3 on pyramids and egyptains looks like its not just my belief anymore..

Actually 77% of the vote is for terrestrials
only 33% is for E.T. Lucid
You haven't covereed statistics at school yet then ?

It's gotta be the 's

god I can't believe that people actually votedd for aliens...oh wait, I can.

Mr. Ed explain your avatarrrr please....

It is me dressed as a superhero. The city is behind me and I am wearing my protective and secretive eye cloth. The item in the top left hand corner is my version of the batman light projector!
(but with the steel circle symbol instead of the bat).

If we're simply talking about who hit upon the idea of making pyramids smooth sided with no staircase or top structures, then it was clearly the Egyptians: on account of the facts that a) they built them and no other ancient culture built pyramids in that style. Easy

hehehe

hey essan give sum crackpots a chance hey...

what about the ancient mesopatanians, shouldn't they have bben an option, or do they already fit into one of the options avaliable?im not sure

The ancient mesopotamians were known as the sumerians Nick.

What may have inspired the Egyptians:

http://www.bu.edu/bridge/archive/2001/04-20/elbaz.html


Abe.

Farouk El-Baz is an idiot

I like idiots.

But why do you think he is one?

http://news.dri.edu/nr2004/febrnomedllectlv.htm

wouldnt that be a similie? cuz it has 'like' on it

Because his claim is totally without merit yet he's gone public to air it.
There goes any reputation he had left

No actually i take it back he's not an idiot
he's a pyramidiot

Your answer is not more than a namecalling. Is that all you can give?

I saw his theory as an interesting and possible explanation of why the Egyptians shaped their pyramids as they did.

Of course I know the theory about the mastabas, the one excepted by mainstream Egyptology. But their acceptance of that theory doesn't make it more true.

Ok you are aware no doubt that Ziggurats were also originally designed by adding more bricks to temples
you are aware no doubt that The Pyramids were built one stage at a time as step pyramids and then later faced to be smooth sided.
You are aware no doubt That the first ziggurat predates the first egptian pyramid by over 1000 years and that early egypt traded a great deal and many sumerian artifacts are found in first dynasty tombs
So the egyptians had a model to work from
If you had any doubts at any point in that rant then i can see why you came to the conclusion that Farouk El-Baz might have a valid theory
Pyramids are kinda based on natural formations
They're man made mountains.
At least thats true of Ziggurats.

That's a lot better.

There are two theories:

1- Egyptians build the pyramids insipred by what they learned from their contacts with the Sumerians;

2- Egyptians build the pyramids inspired by what they encountered wandering through the (western) desert before they settled along the borders of the Nile.

I don't think one is more plausible than the other. The second theory is only one of the latest.

I don't agree
the first theory is based on 100% irrefutable fact
the second theory is one mans guess and is based on an uninfomed Hunch
there is no evidence to suggest that the proto egyptians came from the sahara.
in fact it would be impossible
Still think he's not a pyramidiot
even Zahi would go that far

Pyramidiot! :D

thats a good one

The pyramids were built by Hebrew slave labor. Maybe the Hebrews also helped design them. That's just a guess.

I really can't believe more people voted for extra terrestrials than the Egyptians. Unless those people were joking this site really does have some naive members. I know I am probably going to get a barrage of arguements against me but oh well.
Just because something is not 100% explained does not mean aliens did it, wake up.

I voted for aliens. The reason? There are a few actually..

Keep in mind, I think the Egyptians built them but not without some other supernatural assistance.

1) The precision of the pyramids are impeccable.

2) They could not be made today by man, even with all our tools and cranes. Not to mention with such precision.

3) The blocks used would be almost impossible for humans to move today. I have yet to see anything that can explain as to how the egyptians moved them. (Please give me something.) Even so, how would they acheive such precision while lifting these 300 ton blocks?

4) The Egyptians built these pyramids to signify something with orions belt. And again we see extreme precision with the alignment to the belt to the pyramids. How this could have been done without a telescope is beyond me. Besides, whats the deal with the stars? How did they know/think anything was up there? Hmm...

5) There is no torch residue inside the pyramids. Yet they have various hieroglyphs and paintings inside. How did they see inside them when it was dark?

6) Various round objects have been found in the pyramids. Some of the artifacts are made into perfect circles. This would be almost impossible to be made by hand. You would need at least a lathe to do this yet no lathe has ever been found inside the pyramids (or anywhere around them).

7) What happend to the Egyptians? Today, nobody really knows where they went.

8) Even if the Egyptians had a massive slave force to build them, there was not enough housing. And the working conditions wouldn't have been favorable at all. Too many slaves would have died and not enough would be able to replace them.

9) There have been other pyramids around the world. Did word of mouth get around to all other civilizations that building a pyramid was the thing to do? I think not. I think it is built to signify a worship of some kind (as well as burial).

I know I could be wrong on a few things, however these are some reasons as to why I chose "aliens."

Also, I think there should be a vote to "Egyptians and Aliens".

Then you could still have "aliens" and "egyptians."

I am new to this discussion and can't be bothered to read all the posts... has anyone touched on teh sacofagus (spelt wrong) and how they managed to make that with the tools avalable at the time or the Astro connections of teh pyramids and the perfection of the foundation that the maoin pyramid stands on and how thay also managed tath back then with their lack of equipment?

Amalgamut, I am going to respond to some of your points as I don't have the time to type out everything- rubbish excuse I know.

The Egyptian's did not just use a slave force, they used citizens who had houses as well...

I am certain that we could build them now, you have no PROOF that if we attempted this, that we could not.

Hundreds of men can pull blocks that heavy, look at the one guy that could pull an areoplane...

You have damaged one of your points by pointing out that they were built all over the world- it is easy to do so. I believe they may have been built by other civilsations because the pointed to the sky, heaven. They wouldn't have been hard to build if not on a massive scale, most obvious temple construction.

'This would be almost impossible to be made by hand'
Not impossible.

Many people have attempted to build a pyramid of much smaller scale, and they have usually failed miserably. Therefore the burden of proof lies in the claim. If it can be done today, then why has it not been done?

Pulling/pushing them is one thing, but moving them up a few hundred feet and sliding them into perfect position is another.

Yes, but what gave them idea of a pyramid shape? Why not a square? Or a rectangle? Better yet, why not just a tall square building with a point at the top?

The odds of you making a perfect circle (out of anything) by hand is astronomical. Try drawing it on a piece of papper with a pencil. It's even somewhat difficult to do with a compass. I have heard that if you can draw a perfect circle on a piece of paper, you are clinically insane. Now, try applying this to carving or chipping an object by hand. It might as well be labelled impossible.

Look at marduk's thread on those perfect metal balls...they were natural but they just prove pretty much anything can happen on our planet (not aliens).

'Many people'
Well the Egyptians used the thinkers of their whole nation and its greatest minds. I am guessing these people who tried to reconstruct a pyramid did not have these resources.

Same goes for you, why not a pyramid? why a rectangle or a square?
I am guessing it is because they were easier to build then and they were pointed.

I have seen programs showing how they could have hauled them up the slopes, which were not incredible steep.

Refresh my memory a bit. How old were those "metal balls" suppose to be?

No idea, I didn't really read the thread.

Ok, thats cool. I will go check it out.

http://www.jimloy.com/pseudo/pyramid.htm

This site is pretty good in dispelling some myths.


http://www.atara.net/pyramids/

This site explains a view point of likely construction.

The pyramids aren't that impeccable. Afetr thousands of years the damage done by time makes it impossible for us to see exactly how well made they were. so we don't know
They could easily be made by man today. We have cranes that can lift 2000 tonnes
but they aren't needed. the average weight of blocks is only 2.5 tonnes.
a five man crew could easily move that with the right equipment
The orion connection is one noticed by modern man with telescopes. The angle formed by the three pyramids at giza is not a perfect alignment of orion and the two air shafts don't point towards it
There is plenty of torch residue inside the pyramids
Various round objects ? theres a difference between drawing a circle freehand and making a round object. By your standard everyone who ever made a football should be crazy. Drawing a perfect circle is not an indication of madness. It is an indication of artictic skill. Leonardo da vinci demonstarted that he could do that. was he mad ?
The egyptians went into decline after the advent of rome. Their military power was smashed and the pharonic line ended. The egyptians are still there. You never heard of cairo. It's a city with millions of inhabitants
The work force were not slaves.
They lived in camps while working on the pyramids.
the camps have been excavated and we know from that that the builders were well fed and had good medical treatment. They were well paid too.
There are other pyramids around the world
in ancient times all the continents were in touch with each other for trade or military purposes, The americas were visited several times by different races.
You know this all depends oin which books you read.
If you bother to actually read proper books on egypt writen by qualified egyptologists then most of these questions are answered
if you read books by people like hancock or bauval then you deserve to be a pyramidiot
cos that what you are buddy
you know nothing so you think its aliens
Do you know how a nuclear reactor works
do you think they are built for us by aliens

Well, if the pyramids have remained this way over thousands of years, think how more impeccable they were then!?

So what about five egyptians with only loincloths?

I wasn't referring to the airshafts. I was talking about the three pyramids in general.

Well, I'm sure there is now.

People who make footballs now have modern day machines. They don't walk up to a cow and start cutting it with a knife.

First of all he was a master painter. Secondly, are you sure about him being able to do this?

Like concentration camps!?

So, you are saying that the Egyptians somehow visted the Mayans? and the Aztecs? And the Japanese?

I only read books by Dr. Seuss and Laura Ingals Wilder. And maybe some comics......

I'm sorry marduk. I do not have a PHD in this subject. However, I'm sure you do, but then again....why are you posting on UM?!?!

Actually, I think the pyramids were made by Mary Poppins now. I changed my mind.

Well...not really...

No, I think they are built for us by Mary Poppins. How many times must I tell you?

Yes, Da Vinchi was able to draw perfect circles.

Well, he was one in a billion, so go figure.

He sure didn't do that great of a job on the last supper...

he could have made mary's breasts much larger, no?

Lol amalgamut
if i was on active duty I'd want you by my side
you're certainly a die hard aren't you
Heres the problem
theres two types of egypt
Theres the real egypt that has been excavated and understood
then theres the literal egypt.
people aren't going to sell many books about egypt if everything is nicely explained because its the mystery of egypt thats the big draw
most of the points you raised have been explained satisfactorily and are no longer mysteries
at first before recently we used to think the egyptains used slave labour because we modern humans just couldn't see how it was done nor did we think that anyone would build something that difficult willingly.
Now that modern science has had a look at the problem a lot of the old mysteries have vanished and satisfactory answers have been provided.
For instance the fact that the blocks are fitted so well together that you can't get a knifeblade between them
we know now that the properties of the rock used mean that after almost 5000 years the weight of the blocks above has pushed the blocks together. There may have originally been a big gap. Because of time and pressure now there isn't
The egyptians didn't visit the aztec and mayans as those groups didn't exist at the time
however the proto olmecs did. They built temples that are designed and built in exactly the same way as the pyramids. Theres a thread here somewhere that show the similarity in tomb design, check it out.
The olmecs gave way to the toltecs who gave way to the maya who gave way to the aztec with each succesive group taking control of the cities built by the previous.
Now the logistical problem with this is that we don't currently know of a race that could have taught the egyptians and the japanese and the proto olmec how to built temples
But there is a group in the time period who built monuments the same way and to the same design who could have passed that technology onto the other racial groups. That group is called the sumerians and they were building ziggurats 2000 years before the first stone was laid in egypt.
Problem is because we have barely excavated any of their cities we know very little about them. In fact before 1850 we didn't even know they existed.
See we know they could have done all that but we just haven't proved it yet
what we'd need was to find some illustration of a sumerian ship
because without sea going vessels the travel to the different continents is impossible.
Because of the lack of knowledge about the sumerians you can't study them in college and you can't get a qualification that makes you a sumerian expert.
At the moment all the work is done by independant sumerian scholars
If you had the oppotunity to talk to one you'd find all your questions answered pretty quickly.
Well today your luck is in
I am an independant sumerian scholar and its my area of expertise.
Have a look at the attached picture of a sumerian ship
you can tell its an ocean going ship because it has a rudder that allows it to be steered against an ocean current.
you might also notice the sphinx on board
this is a cylinder seal
it predates egyptian civilisation
now look at the second picture
this is an even earlier cylinder seal
it depicts the building of a temple by gods who travelled over the seas. The figures that appear to be writing is in fact a schematic
it depicts three different types of argonons (cranes) and a side diagram of what appears to be the design of the kings chamber in the great pyramid.
Now heres the big problem
Human nature
egyptologists are in love with egypt
they want it to be the premier civilisation on earth
they don't want to believe that the roots of egyptian civilisation came from somewhere else
Thats a shame really because when my article that i have been writing for the last three months is published in a months time they will have no choice but to believe the truth. The evidence in it is 100% irrefutable.
5 people worldwide have read my article so far
2 of them are translators and they agree with my findings
1 of them is the owner of an archeological magasine and website, he described me as "about to become more famous than howard carter", in fact he went further and said that i am "about to become the most famous name in archeology ever".
1 is a world famous geologist and he agrees with my findings
the last is an egyptologist and although he now hates me he agrees with my findings
the truth will out as they say
You just got to wait a month to see if i'm talking out of my ass or not.
thats not too long is it ?
The article i have written is going to appear in lots of places at once.
i am not asking any payment for it
Does that Indicate anything to you about my motivation ?
Now please
the pyramids weren't built by aliens
they were built by men

Now for the answer
The smooth sided pyramids were designed by the egyptians
They appeared there first and there is a clear pattern of experimentation on earlier egyptian pyramids
one even collapsed because they made the angle too steep
i bet pharoah was happy
All the other smooth sided pyramids in the region can be directly linked back to them
The first pyramid built in egypt in 2650 at saqquara is a step pyramid
smooth sides is an innovation that in egyptian legend at least came from the famous priest Imhotep
you alien fans will recognise him as the character played by arnold vosloo in the mummy movies
So i'm afraid it wasn't aliens
i guess at least half of you didn't bother to read the first post where i actually specified which pyramids
I expect that you're the same guys who haven't figured out how to set the timer on your video recorders yet because you haven't even glanced at the instructions
Essan got it right first
He wins
well done that man

I'm glad noone voted for Zahi Hawass. He didn't do it but he's certainly arrogant enough to claim it was his idea