Which of these ancient cultures most likely had the technology and the ability to navigate the entire worlds surface.
There'd be several qualifying factors involved
1 Boatbuilding
2 Navigation
3 Food preservation
4 Astronomy
5 Written accounts of the journey
6 Out of place artifacts (ooparts)
7 A social system that allowed travel
theres probably a few others i've omitted but these are the main points
Full Version: Navigating the world
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History
i say sumerians since they probs were first to get to s. america and such. 
Ok which Joker chose the polynesians
???
that was only in there for a laugh
???
that was only in there for a laugh
check whos on the thread.... 
I thought the polynesians only knew how to make shoes?!
Well Australia's Aboriginal people used boats to travel to Australia, there is no other way they could have possibly got there. People now believe that they built ships, of what scale I do not know, but after living on the new land for a while they forgot their ship making abilities as they had no need for them.
gotta been the christians then. 
(coloumbus, magellen, etc...etc..)
I think they were christians..
pretty sure they were....
no ships where built capable of traveling so far untill the late 1400's
(coloumbus, magellen, etc...etc..)I think they were christians..
pretty sure they were....
no ships where built capable of traveling so far untill the late 1400's
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ May 31 2005, 12:22 PM)
gotta been the christians then. (coloumbus, magellen, etc...etc..)
I think they were christians..
pretty sure they were....
no ships where built capable of traveling so far untill the late 1400's
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(coloumbus, magellen, etc...etc..)I think they were christians..
pretty sure they were....
no ships where built capable of traveling so far untill the late 1400's
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Christians
yeah
whatever
hehehe
It has been proved that there must have been ships travelling that far before the 1400's. The Aborigines...
QUOTE(Mr Ed @ May 31 2005, 05:30 AM)
It has been proved that there must have been ships travelling that far before the 1400's. The Aborigines...
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it has?
I am pretty sure, there was no other way for them to get to Australia as it is a continent not bordering any other land. Life did not start there and therefore they had to have had ships.
Unless aliens put them there...
Unless aliens put them there...
QUOTE(Mr Ed @ May 31 2005, 05:41 AM)
Unless aliens put them there...
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Yes!!!! Indeed!
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ May 31 2005, 12:44 PM)
QUOTE(Mr Ed @ May 31 2005, 05:41 AM)
Unless aliens put them there...
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Yes!!!! Indeed!
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Maybe they fell off the ark as it passed over huh
oh no that can't be true
they weren't even on it or the bible would have said so cos its infallible....right ?
hur hur hur
you forgot the chinese 
o well i picked egyptians
o well i picked egyptians
QUOTE(marduk @ May 31 2005, 10:18 AM)
QUOTE(Amalgamut @ May 31 2005, 12:44 PM)
QUOTE(Mr Ed @ May 31 2005, 05:41 AM)
Unless aliens put them there...
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Yes!!!! Indeed!
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Maybe they fell off the ark as it passed over huh
oh no that can't be true
they weren't even on it or the bible would have said so cos its infallible....right ?
hur hur hur
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The bible mentions the "Nephilim."
ok marduk
why didnt u put our very own francis drake
i reckon sum ppl will have voted for him.... 
lol 
why didnt u put our very own francis drake
i reckon sum ppl will have voted for him....
lol
I still am finding it difficult to believe that some people think the polynesians navigated the planet
did i miss something
did i miss something
QUOTE(SLAYER69 @ May 31 2005, 09:41 PM)
I'm not sure China was not the First check out this link
Chinas Giant junks
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Chinas Giant junks
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The chinese did that 600 years ago
You need to be thinking 3500bce to get this one right
thats just a little earlier
QUOTE(Conspiracy @ May 31 2005, 09:38 AM)
you forgot the chinese
o well i picked egyptians
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o well i picked egyptians
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read on their getting older by the minute
" Archeologists recovered a similarly impressive priority cargo from the other major early shipwreck in South Korea -- the Wando ship, discovered in 1984. This vessel held a cargo of at least 30,000 pieces of celadon ceramics, which have been traced to a kiln in Haenam Province and probably date to A.D. 1050-1100."
Source
There is increasing evidence that many ancient cultures sailed much further than is commonly recognised - either by accident or design.
As to who was first? I'm not sure. But I don't doubt it could have been achieved by 3,500BC - if not earlier!
(Basically I don't exclude the possiblity that it was a thus far undiscovered/unsuspected proto-civilisation)
As to who was first? I'm not sure. But I don't doubt it could have been achieved by 3,500BC - if not earlier!
(Basically I don't exclude the possiblity that it was a thus far undiscovered/unsuspected proto-civilisation)
First to navigate the world or sail around it?
The question is unclear.
The person who really impresses me is Benoit Lecomte, who SWAM across the Atlantic in 1998.
The question is unclear.
The person who really impresses me is Benoit Lecomte, who SWAM across the Atlantic in 1998.
QUOTE(DJ_Quinn @ Jun 1 2005, 10:28 AM)
First to navigate the world or sail around it?
The question is unclear.
The person who really impresses me is Benoit Lecomte, who SWAM across the Atlantic in 1998.
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The question is unclear.
The person who really impresses me is Benoit Lecomte, who SWAM across the Atlantic in 1998.
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so how would you sail round the world without using navigation exactly lucid ?
ask a passing alien for directions ?
what will impress me
a man who *farted* around the world
*lighting* it all the way round....
a man who *farted* around the world
*lighting* it all the way round....
QUOTE(The Roswell Man @ Jun 1 2005, 01:18 PM)
what will impress
a man who *farted* around the world
*lighting* it all the way round....
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a man who *farted* around the world
*lighting* it all the way round....
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I fart in your general direction....
could ayone be stupid enuff to attempt to swim unaided around the world? 
QUOTE(The Roswell Man @ Jun 1 2005, 05:59 PM)
could ayone be stupid enuff to attempt to swim unaided around the world?
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I heard on another forum that the irish swam all the way to the holy land and back in 4bc
don't ask me to verify it though
i'm still laughing
knowing the luck of the irish....
QUOTE(The Roswell Man @ Jun 1 2005, 06:12 PM)
knowing the luck of the irish....
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lol
thats a very good question, i need to read up on that.. i never even thought about that... wow good question Marduk.
QUOTE(LucidElement @ Jun 2 2005, 10:41 AM)
thats a very good question, i need to read up on that.. i never even thought about that... wow good question Marduk.
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uhuh
QUOTE(marduk @ Jun 1 2005, 05:10 PM)
QUOTE(The Roswell Man @ Jun 1 2005, 05:59 PM)
could ayone be stupid enuff to attempt to swim unaided around the world?
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I heard on another forum that the irish swam all the way to the holy land and back in 4bc
don't ask me to verify it though
i'm still laughing
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That's a myth, but the Irish monks were worthy seamen. Saint Brendan the navigator reached the new world in around 550 AD.
He was certainly among the first to reach the New World.
"
Maps of Columbus’ time often included an island called St. Brendan’s Isle that was placed in the western Atlantic ocean. Map makers of the time had no idea of its exact position but did believe it existed some where west of Europe. It was mentioned in a Latin text dating from the ninth century called Navigatio Santi Brendani Abatis (Voyage of Saint Brendan the Abbot). It described the voyage as having taken place in the sixth century. Several copies of this text have survived in monasteries throughout Europe. It was an important part of folklore in medieval Europe and may have influenced Columbus
The account of Brendan’s voyage contained a detailed description of the construction of his boat which was not unlike the currachs still made in Ireland today.
Skeptics could not accept that such a fragile vessel could possibly sail in the open sea. Several passages in the legend also seemed incredible—they were “raised up on the back of sea monsters”, they “passed by crystals that rose up to the sky”, and they were “pelted with flaming, foul-smelling rocks by the inhabitants of a large island on their route”.
Brendan and his companions finally arrived at the beautiful land they called “Promised Land of the Saints.” They explored until they came to a great river that divided the land. The journey of Brendan and his fellow monks took seven years. The return trip was probably the longest part of the odyssey.
In 1976, Tim Severin, a British navigation scholar, embarked from Brandon Creek on the Dingle Peninsula in a currach that he constructed using the details described by Brendan. His goal was to determine if the voyage of Brendan and his fellow monks was possible. Severin and his team tanned ox-hides with oak bark, stretched them across the wood frame, sewed them with leather thread and smeared the hides with animal fat which would impart water resistance.
Examination of nautical charts led Severin to believe that Brendan’s route would be governed by the prevailing winds that would take him across the northernmost part of the Atlantic. This would take him close to Iceland and Greenland with a probable landfall at Newfoundland (St. Brendan’s Isle)."
Ref: http://www.irishcultureandcustoms.com/ASai...BrendanNav.html
"
Maps of Columbus’ time often included an island called St. Brendan’s Isle that was placed in the western Atlantic ocean. Map makers of the time had no idea of its exact position but did believe it existed some where west of Europe. It was mentioned in a Latin text dating from the ninth century called Navigatio Santi Brendani Abatis (Voyage of Saint Brendan the Abbot). It described the voyage as having taken place in the sixth century. Several copies of this text have survived in monasteries throughout Europe. It was an important part of folklore in medieval Europe and may have influenced Columbus
The account of Brendan’s voyage contained a detailed description of the construction of his boat which was not unlike the currachs still made in Ireland today.
Skeptics could not accept that such a fragile vessel could possibly sail in the open sea. Several passages in the legend also seemed incredible—they were “raised up on the back of sea monsters”, they “passed by crystals that rose up to the sky”, and they were “pelted with flaming, foul-smelling rocks by the inhabitants of a large island on their route”.
Brendan and his companions finally arrived at the beautiful land they called “Promised Land of the Saints.” They explored until they came to a great river that divided the land. The journey of Brendan and his fellow monks took seven years. The return trip was probably the longest part of the odyssey.
In 1976, Tim Severin, a British navigation scholar, embarked from Brandon Creek on the Dingle Peninsula in a currach that he constructed using the details described by Brendan. His goal was to determine if the voyage of Brendan and his fellow monks was possible. Severin and his team tanned ox-hides with oak bark, stretched them across the wood frame, sewed them with leather thread and smeared the hides with animal fat which would impart water resistance.
Examination of nautical charts led Severin to believe that Brendan’s route would be governed by the prevailing winds that would take him across the northernmost part of the Atlantic. This would take him close to Iceland and Greenland with a probable landfall at Newfoundland (St. Brendan’s Isle)."
Ref: http://www.irishcultureandcustoms.com/ASai...BrendanNav.html
"He was certainly among the first to reach the New World."
no he wasn't
not by a long shot
no he wasn't
not by a long shot
The first of the so-called "modern" europeans.
I'm sure the aliens were there much earlier.
Even the aboriginal people came from somewhere...
You can say that about almost anywhere marduk, except the Garden of Eden.
I'm sure the aliens were there much earlier.
Even the aboriginal people came from somewhere...
You can say that about almost anywhere marduk, except the Garden of Eden.
BTW, I want to hear more about the Irishmen who swam all the way to the Holyland.
Was it Finn McCool?
Was it Finn McCool?
QUOTE(DJ_Quinn @ Jun 2 2005, 02:02 PM)
The first of the so-called "modern" europeans.
I'm sure the aliens were there much earlier.
Even the aboriginal people came from somewhere...
You can say that about almost anywhere marduk, except the Garden of Eden.
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I'm sure the aliens were there much earlier.
Even the aboriginal people came from somewhere...
You can say that about almost anywhere marduk, except the Garden of Eden.
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Well actually no
I know where the garden of eden is so it's not as mythical as you think.
And it wasn't quite the way it is described in the bible
but then what is
Tell me then, do you believe that St Brendan made it to Newfoundland?
QUOTE(DJ_Quinn @ Jun 2 2005, 02:08 PM)
Tell me then, do you believe that St Brendan made it to Newfoundland?
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I have no problem with the concept
It's not my area of expertise so i wouldn't really comment either way.
if the top vote is other,
wot 'other' civs are ppl voting 4? 
are they voting it to be akward? 
wot 'other' civs are ppl voting 4?
are they voting it to be akward?
This was once explained to me....
In the Eastern Hemishpere people for the most part believed that heaven was in the sky, hell was underground and the earth was where we lived. Where the earth and sky met was the path to heaven and so in order for a person to get to heaven they had to travel to where the earth met the sky.
This place was in those days defined as what we today call the horizon.
As a result a common burial ritual was (actually its still done today), to place the body in a rather well crafted vessel designed to travel across the atlantic or pacific and travel through the horizon into what the believed was heaven.
Some of those ships were so well made they actually survived the journey and made it to a Western Hemispheric coast. At this point they were found by Native Americans,who copied the designs of the best built vessels, into larger craft.
They traveled to the Mediterranean as well as the Orient as time passed it was clear that interaction between the two hemisphere's created problems.
The truth be known the masses of both sides simply were never told. And to make matters the worst, if anything they were convinced by leaders that these people we not people at all but gods (common people from the west thought those from the east were gods and visa versa).
Things got way out of hand, especially with respect to either authority's ability to respond and so the connection between the two hemispheres was severed.
This legend is suppose to be about 10,000 years old and is from the
Western Hemisphere.
The last thing it mentions is that because the Native Americans were the ones who decided to sever the connection and they did not consult those of the Eastern Hemisphere, as to there decision, prior to making it.
Also mentioned was that there was a lot of hostility expressed on the part of the East, with respect to this decision by the West (meaning amongst what was then the leadership).
In reality most of the interaction between the two hemisphere's then, was in relation to trade. The matter of who they were in respect to the other sides peoples, was considered an effective way to manage the behavior of
workers interacting with the traders and leaders.
Any thoughts?
In the Eastern Hemishpere people for the most part believed that heaven was in the sky, hell was underground and the earth was where we lived. Where the earth and sky met was the path to heaven and so in order for a person to get to heaven they had to travel to where the earth met the sky.
This place was in those days defined as what we today call the horizon.
As a result a common burial ritual was (actually its still done today), to place the body in a rather well crafted vessel designed to travel across the atlantic or pacific and travel through the horizon into what the believed was heaven.
Some of those ships were so well made they actually survived the journey and made it to a Western Hemispheric coast. At this point they were found by Native Americans,who copied the designs of the best built vessels, into larger craft.
They traveled to the Mediterranean as well as the Orient as time passed it was clear that interaction between the two hemisphere's created problems.
The truth be known the masses of both sides simply were never told. And to make matters the worst, if anything they were convinced by leaders that these people we not people at all but gods (common people from the west thought those from the east were gods and visa versa).
Things got way out of hand, especially with respect to either authority's ability to respond and so the connection between the two hemispheres was severed.
This legend is suppose to be about 10,000 years old and is from the
Western Hemisphere.
The last thing it mentions is that because the Native Americans were the ones who decided to sever the connection and they did not consult those of the Eastern Hemisphere, as to there decision, prior to making it.
Also mentioned was that there was a lot of hostility expressed on the part of the East, with respect to this decision by the West (meaning amongst what was then the leadership).
In reality most of the interaction between the two hemisphere's then, was in relation to trade. The matter of who they were in respect to the other sides peoples, was considered an effective way to manage the behavior of
workers interacting with the traders and leaders.
Any thoughts?
QUOTE(Toltec @ Jun 2 2005, 06:59 PM)
This was once explained to me....
In the Eastern Hemishpere people for the most part believed that heaven was in the sky, hell was underground and the earth was where we lived. Where the earth and sky met was the path to heaven and so in order for a person to get to heaven they had to travel to where the earth met the sky.
This place was in those days defined as what we today call the horizon.
As a result a common burial ritual was (actually its still done today), to place the body in a rather well crafted vessel designed to travel across the atlantic or pacific and travel through the horizon into what the believed was heaven.
Some of those ships were so well made they actually survived the journey and made it to a Western Hemispheric coast. At this point they were found by Native Americans,who copied the designs of the best built vessels, into larger craft.
They traveled to the Mediterranean as well as the Orient as time passed it was clear that interaction between the two hemisphere's created problems.
The truth be known the masses of both sides simply were never told. And to make matters the worst, if anything they were convinced by leaders that these people we not people at all but gods (common people from the west thought those from the east were gods and visa versa).
Things got way out of hand, especially with respect to either authority's ability to respond and so the connection between the two hemispheres was severed.
This legend is suppose to be about 10,000 years old and is from the
Western Hemisphere.
The last thing it mentions is that because the Native Americans were the ones who decided to sever the connection and they did not consult those of the Eastern Hemisphere, as to there decision, prior to making it.
Also mentioned was that there was a lot of hostility expressed on the part of the East, with respect to this decision by the West (meaning amongst what was then the leadership).
In reality most of the interaction between the two hemisphere's then, was in relation to trade. The matter of who they were in respect to the other sides peoples, was considered an effective way to manage the behavior of
workers interacting with the traders and leaders.
Any thoughts?
[right][snapback]653156[/snapback][/right]
In the Eastern Hemishpere people for the most part believed that heaven was in the sky, hell was underground and the earth was where we lived. Where the earth and sky met was the path to heaven and so in order for a person to get to heaven they had to travel to where the earth met the sky.
This place was in those days defined as what we today call the horizon.
As a result a common burial ritual was (actually its still done today), to place the body in a rather well crafted vessel designed to travel across the atlantic or pacific and travel through the horizon into what the believed was heaven.
Some of those ships were so well made they actually survived the journey and made it to a Western Hemispheric coast. At this point they were found by Native Americans,who copied the designs of the best built vessels, into larger craft.
They traveled to the Mediterranean as well as the Orient as time passed it was clear that interaction between the two hemisphere's created problems.
The truth be known the masses of both sides simply were never told. And to make matters the worst, if anything they were convinced by leaders that these people we not people at all but gods (common people from the west thought those from the east were gods and visa versa).
Things got way out of hand, especially with respect to either authority's ability to respond and so the connection between the two hemispheres was severed.
This legend is suppose to be about 10,000 years old and is from the
Western Hemisphere.
The last thing it mentions is that because the Native Americans were the ones who decided to sever the connection and they did not consult those of the Eastern Hemisphere, as to there decision, prior to making it.
Also mentioned was that there was a lot of hostility expressed on the part of the East, with respect to this decision by the West (meaning amongst what was then the leadership).
In reality most of the interaction between the two hemisphere's then, was in relation to trade. The matter of who they were in respect to the other sides peoples, was considered an effective way to manage the behavior of
workers interacting with the traders and leaders.
Any thoughts?
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Hundreds
Just checking in to see what my Mentor . . Marduk had to say.
Uh Huh!
Uh Huh!
QUOTE(marduk @ Jun 2 2005, 07:32 PM)
QUOTE(Toltec @ Jun 2 2005, 06:59 PM)
This was once explained to me....
In the Eastern Hemishpere people for the most part believed that heaven was in the sky, hell was underground and the earth was where we lived. Where the earth and sky met was the path to heaven and so in order for a person to get to heaven they had to travel to where the earth met the sky.
This place was in those days defined as what we today call the horizon.
As a result a common burial ritual was (actually its still done today), to place the body in a rather well crafted vessel designed to travel across the atlantic or pacific and travel through the horizon into what the believed was heaven.
Some of those ships were so well made they actually survived the journey and made it to a Western Hemispheric coast. At this point they were found by Native Americans,who copied the designs of the best built vessels, into larger craft.
They traveled to the Mediterranean as well as the Orient as time passed it was clear that interaction between the two hemisphere's created problems.
The truth be known the masses of both sides simply were never told. And to make matters the worst, if anything they were convinced by leaders that these people we not people at all but gods (common people from the west thought those from the east were gods and visa versa).
Things got way out of hand, especially with respect to either authority's ability to respond and so the connection between the two hemispheres was severed.
This legend is suppose to be about 10,000 years old and is from the
Western Hemisphere.
The last thing it mentions is that because the Native Americans were the ones who decided to sever the connection and they did not consult those of the Eastern Hemisphere, as to there decision, prior to making it.
Also mentioned was that there was a lot of hostility expressed on the part of the East, with respect to this decision by the West (meaning amongst what was then the leadership).
In reality most of the interaction between the two hemisphere's then, was in relation to trade. The matter of who they were in respect to the other sides peoples, was considered an effective way to manage the behavior of
workers interacting with the traders and leaders.
Any thoughts?
[right][snapback]653156[/snapback][/right]
In the Eastern Hemishpere people for the most part believed that heaven was in the sky, hell was underground and the earth was where we lived. Where the earth and sky met was the path to heaven and so in order for a person to get to heaven they had to travel to where the earth met the sky.
This place was in those days defined as what we today call the horizon.
As a result a common burial ritual was (actually its still done today), to place the body in a rather well crafted vessel designed to travel across the atlantic or pacific and travel through the horizon into what the believed was heaven.
Some of those ships were so well made they actually survived the journey and made it to a Western Hemispheric coast. At this point they were found by Native Americans,who copied the designs of the best built vessels, into larger craft.
They traveled to the Mediterranean as well as the Orient as time passed it was clear that interaction between the two hemisphere's created problems.
The truth be known the masses of both sides simply were never told. And to make matters the worst, if anything they were convinced by leaders that these people we not people at all but gods (common people from the west thought those from the east were gods and visa versa).
Things got way out of hand, especially with respect to either authority's ability to respond and so the connection between the two hemispheres was severed.
This legend is suppose to be about 10,000 years old and is from the
Western Hemisphere.
The last thing it mentions is that because the Native Americans were the ones who decided to sever the connection and they did not consult those of the Eastern Hemisphere, as to there decision, prior to making it.
Also mentioned was that there was a lot of hostility expressed on the part of the East, with respect to this decision by the West (meaning amongst what was then the leadership).
In reality most of the interaction between the two hemisphere's then, was in relation to trade. The matter of who they were in respect to the other sides peoples, was considered an effective way to manage the behavior of
workers interacting with the traders and leaders.
Any thoughts?
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Hundreds
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Don't take this the wrong way Toltec but without you linking to this stuff were just discussing your ideas. Do you have any hard evidence that supports any of this
Or is it a ninja secret ?
toltec u shuld know the drill by now
all crazy thoeries have to be supported by RELIABLE evidence
all crazy thoeries have to be supported by RELIABLE evidence
Acceptable gentlemen, though the idea that Native Americans were the Atlantians actually a commonly discussed consideration.
What this legend claims is that it is true and this is how it started.
If I may?
If I come here and say Aliens are not actually coming to earth and UFOs belong to a human society, which was based in the Western Hemisphere and discovered nuclear technology10,000 years ago and currently lives underground, that is a theory.
If I explain, as I have consistently, that this is a legend and a part of my education, which occurred in my youth. I am not presenting a theory but rather an account, no different than say testimony regarding information, presented to the best of my knowledge.
It was never my intention to present these legends as theory, a word whose definition contrast that of legend considerably.
As such RM would ask you to understand your conclusion is incorrect.
No Marduk its not a ninja secret though what it is, is a very old account that
like many such stories offers an angle designed to support a certain groups
observations, opinions and beliefs.
If a person (for instance) or a group of people that had never in their history seen a crucifix, with the image of Jesus upon it, that could interpret the image to be symbolic simply of torture, not as it is meant to be.
As well, a symbol of salvation.
Of course, how exactly that salvation is interpreted can vary.....
If what is presented above seems in any way the result of hostility or malice I assure that is not my intent. In truth these legends are more or less an intro- duction which I have used consistently, in forums, in the past.
That someone is of the opinion I will at some point in the future begin demanding or insisting that any of these legends are exacting in there descriptions of history
they are incorrect.
Had that been my intent my format in presentation would have been much different.
Any thoughts?
What this legend claims is that it is true and this is how it started.
If I may?
If I come here and say Aliens are not actually coming to earth and UFOs belong to a human society, which was based in the Western Hemisphere and discovered nuclear technology10,000 years ago and currently lives underground, that is a theory.
If I explain, as I have consistently, that this is a legend and a part of my education, which occurred in my youth. I am not presenting a theory but rather an account, no different than say testimony regarding information, presented to the best of my knowledge.
It was never my intention to present these legends as theory, a word whose definition contrast that of legend considerably.
As such RM would ask you to understand your conclusion is incorrect.
No Marduk its not a ninja secret
though what it is, is a very old account that like many such stories offers an angle designed to support a certain groups
observations, opinions and beliefs.
If a person (for instance) or a group of people that had never in their history seen a crucifix, with the image of Jesus upon it, that could interpret the image to be symbolic simply of torture, not as it is meant to be.
As well, a symbol of salvation.
Of course, how exactly that salvation is interpreted can vary.....
If what is presented above seems in any way the result of hostility or malice I assure that is not my intent. In truth these legends are more or less an intro- duction which I have used consistently, in forums, in the past.
That someone is of the opinion I will at some point in the future begin demanding or insisting that any of these legends are exacting in there descriptions of history
they are incorrect.
Had that been my intent my format in presentation would have been much different.
Any thoughts?
neil young said,he came dancing across the water with his gallions and guns,cortez
cortez,what a killer".
cortez,what a killer".
QUOTE(openmind1963 @ Jun 5 2005, 10:57 PM)
neil young said,he came dancing across the water with his gallions and guns,cortez
cortez,what a killer".
[right][snapback]657594[/snapback][/right]
cortez,what a killer".
[right][snapback]657594[/snapback][/right]
you forgot the best bit
"coca leaves and pearls"
If it wasn't the Sumerians then it was their ancestors that did it first the Earth and its geofraphy have not been a mystery for thousands of years, its just been forgotten at times.
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