I take it you're kidding here......

They must believe in Christ. You will be either hot or cold in your belief in him. If you are cold, you will more than likely worship the beast. If you worship the beast then you are not believing in Christ. I highly doubt anyone on the face of the earth this time will be worshipping anyone else except for the beast, or the Lord. Like I said earlier, if you worship Christ as well as other gods, then you are cold.

Well, thats just the way its going to be. No man's thoughts or opinion can change it.

No I am not joking

back to the mythology! i would not rely on the writings of primative cultures to explain things.

if you wish to though, remember that again these artificial hierarchies came from MEN (i.e. the same faulty brain thoughts i was originally refering to, just from a different head)

What you find funny?

I don't understand...

Yes, but how do you know for sure that it didn't come from a devine power?

because then it would not be a "devine power"!

it would be like the tyrant gods of man's creation.

I find it funny because its simply impossible.

Science may be able to predict all or many of the forces of nature in the future. But in no way will man ever be able to control it.

I just said "how do you know for sure?"

How could it not be from a devine power if it did in fact come from divinity?

let me spell it out for you: a. r. t. i. f. i. c. i. a. l.

in other words: a CREATION of MAN.

even some of the (not so flawed) religions understand it!

duality is a fallacy, and dualistic religions breed such dualistic ************

you are certain that we will never be able to control nature heh?

I'll reply to this after I have some food...

certian, certian, amal is indeed!
became like this with a bible to read!

there are somethings in nature you dont want to mess with, and i think if you did mess with them, you would die.

the strong and weak nuclear forces come to mind easily.

So you are telling me that man will someday be able to control ALL of the forces of nature?

And what does my religion have anything to do with this?

Well it seems you are certain that we will be able to...

just playing with you!

we have had enough "adversarial" debates it is funny that i do agree with you on this. (your religion is your certianty, is it not? that is why i used that line.)

no. man will not control nature, but nature will control man (unwittingly).

Yes, but you don't know for sure that it was influenced by the divine. You assume that it wasn't. Just like as I believe it was.

Stop the press! We actually agree on something?! This is a day to remember

my point is that by any definition of a divine force, it would not feed such nonsense to people. by giving such nonsense, it is not divine because it is either lying or itself is not fully aware.

I am going to make a very bold statement here. I do not believe the world will end in a fire and brimstone cataclysm. I believe that revelations is the ultimate form of extortion and I will never turn to a God who uses fear to manipulate it's people. In fact if it ever comes to be (which I really really really doubt) I will make sure that I believe neither in the Beast or God, that should stuff up the whole revelations thing quite nicely. Becuase according toearlier statements, if you do not believe in either the christian God and yet also do not follow the so called beast you can hold up the whole revelations process inevitably.

Infact if it's allright to commit a little extortion, I shall even go as far as to tell people to stand for a belief entirely different to Christianity and refuse to convert until all valuable souls are saved.. It seems the only real and fair solution.

apple using intel chips.... no stronger a sign that the end times are upon us!

it can be fun to play this game too (where is that bible-verse to show this is a sign?)

True, however by you not taking the mark you are believing in Christ.

Without this mark you will be unable to buy food. You will starve to death eventually (like many "tribulation saints" will do). My point is that you must have some belief in Christ if you decline to take the mark. So, therefore you are a believer.

amal, that is entirely untrue!

you must stop with the binary thought processes

Amalgamut believes that the switch is either "on" or "off", and that not believing in satan, automatically means you believe in christ and vice versa. To his belief system, you must acknowledge one or the other, you cannot possibly ignore both.

I do wonder though, if amalgamuts car has a neutral gear, or if it is either in a constant state of action, or inertness. And if he perfers black & white movies to technicolor.

It is biblically true.

well that proves the bible entirely untrue then!

good to have that case closed.

Well, this is the only explaination for not taking the mark. Why else wouldn't you take the mark? There must be some reason....

In the times of revelation it will be very rare that a person would not chose one side. Considering one side can eat food, and the other not. You would think the hungry person would have some reasoning as to why he did not get stamped.

Sorry, Amalgamut, but I practice self sufficiency as much as possible. My neighbors are the same. Its good to live in farm country.

I also live in the country and believe that all homes should have a sustainable vegetable/fruit source. We have a dozen or so fruit trees, a hot house, a vegie patch and usualy run a couple of sheep.

My point is that if ever anyone was to get crazy enough to start telling people the end is nigh as the bible fortells and that the signs are upon us, I will do my uptmost to publicly proove them wrong. There have been too many deaths because of false End time predictions and I still can't see how any good can come from it.

That being said if a gigantic meteor is hurling through space and the government announces that we only have a short amount of time to live, I'll take one bottle of bourbon and one of vodka and make myself comfortably numb while I can.

Well, if I am left on the earth after the rapture I plan on doing this most of the time.

Not necessairly. what if your reason for not taking it is completely independant of the bible?

Amal quite a few apostate Christians are out there but please try to remember that Christianity isn't a popularity contest. In fact Christ was killed. Brother against brother, father against son,etc. Remember that (Christ's words as you know).

Come on people lets put this into perspective. The christian bible was written by man for man. I recently saw a program about this book of revelations. The whole thing seems to be a great story ending. Like the fabels of old it is meant to keep you in fear so that you don't stray off the path. I believe what is really happening is that many christians are taking this literally and following the story in order to make such events occur, our US president & his regime included. The arrogance of it all.

The gov't has already found ways to in part control nature- and it HAS backfired on them. They willkeep trying, because I feel man has this overall desire toknow everything and to want to control everything. That is why there is so much war, etc...
I dont doubt man may find a way to control nature and certain things...but here is the underlying factor: they only THINK they are in control, and when something out of order happens, and something bad happens, they call it a mistake. They will chalk up their mistake to someone else's mistake, or blame it on a computer error, etc...so then the truth is, they never really HAD control. It's like the argument in th emovie Jurassic Park- man thought he could create what "nature" (in my case, God) created and destroyed...we dont have that power or authority and people dont want to accept that- they are too conceited to want to admit that they are not all that lol We will never have ALL the answers, and we will never be able to create and control things w/o consequences from the almighty Creator.
I dont fall to my knees and worship somethin(one) just because I dont understand its power. I fall to my knees and worship someone I DO know, who has proven Himself to me time and time again, and when I do this He blesses me. I feel and know Him. And also because, it is (and feels) right to do. That is why I do it.
I can see your viewpoint: "The ironic thing is. When you pass on you simply will not exist to even know you were wrong. You can't just go " oops, I was wrong " You will just not exist at all. Like before you were born."
Because I have a similar one on my side of the fence...
when YOU pass on, I wonder what you will say to our Father and Savior when you stand before Him, at His white throne, and He asks you why you didn't listen and live for Him, when He gave you so many chances to learn about and know Him...?

Like I've said before:

IF you believers are correct, then I'll stand on my feet, look him in the eye, and say:
I used the gifts you gave me to live my own life. Do what you will, but I lived a good and just life, and have no regrets.

and how could any being that supposedly lives by the same codes as the majority of us find any fault in that?

Just finished reading through all the responses. I didn't vote in this poll because while I do believe we are now living in the End Times, I do not know when it will end. The Bible says that "the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night (1 Thessalonians 5:2)". No one knows when He will return. He could return today, or He could return in another 3000 years. But I do know that He will return.

Opposed to what some have claimed here, there were no prophecies regarding His return in the New Testament. The closest passage that I can find is when Jesus says something along the lines of "some of you will not die before the Son of Man comes again" (I don't remember the exact passage). And indeed Jesus did return. After three days in the grave He came again, and over the next 40 days appeared to many people. He appeared to Peter, to Thomas, just to name a few.

Until next time,

That is actually incorrect. There are many!

In Zechariah 14:1 "A day of the Lord is coming..."
and Zech 14:3 "Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem...."
in Zech 14:5 it says "Then the Lord my God will come and all the holy ones with him."

Those are just a couple, but there are many more.

Hyperactice said:
"IF you believers are correct, then I'll stand on my feet, look him in the eye, and say:
I used the gifts you gave me to live my own life. Do what you will, but I lived a good and just life, and have no regrets."

And I respect that. It sounds as if, even though you dont believe, you are willing to take responsibility if you are incorrect (unless that was just to patronize us lol).

I just have to share this...I used to think the same way you did. That was until I compared my life to thoise who lived for God (as best they could).
God proved Himself to me, many times, and I began to read and study the Bible- I felt I owed it to myself. Now I feel Ialso owe it to God, as I understand who I am and where I came from. It is sorta like the same respect I gave my mom, and give my dad.
I knew I was a good person (ok, overall, because no one is perfect lol). I felt that was all I needed. But deep down I knew I could be a better person... I guess I just felt "why? this way is so much easier and more fun" lol
Then after I read the Bible, I saw what God expected of us. He expects more than us to be a good person. He wants us to know and praise Him, to pray to Him and worship Him, and well, more. but I wont get into all of it it lol
And you may say you will say you have no regrets, but once the end comes, the one the Bible talks about, I am sure you will feel different.
Just owe it to yourself to check it out.

i have 'checked it out': christianity along with 13 other religions!


giving yourself up to imaginary 'higher powers' is akin to a dog laying at the feet of its master. yes, it can be destressing to be a 'happy-go-lucky-carefree-idiot' (not to be confused with idiocy), but it is a dream world. that is unless you really only want to ever be a dog at the feet of some master.

in the end it does not matter if i am 'good' to everybody or a serial killer. in the end i answer only to myself, and it is whatever is within me i must reconcile. the oneness of the universe comes from the interconnectedness of equals, not in any way from powerless higher powers that the weak human mind creates to comfort itself.

And that is fine- that is your opinion.
Checking out a religion does not give a person a full understanding of it, or of God. I checked out many things as well, back in the day. Up until I read and studies the Bible, giving it a chance out of curiosity, only did I find the answers.
I dont feel I am giving myself up to anyone or thing, but connecting with something wonderful. I have seen and felt this higher presence and it is amazing!
Those who know and love God, do not see Him as a "master". We look up to Him as our Father, and a being of love and perfection and goodness. Nothing negative.
We dont do anything for Him that makes us worse of a person. In fact, lets say we are wrong...what do we have to lose? We lived a good and moral life.
We dont judge- it matters in the end if you were presented with turth and you chose not to accept of love God...it will matter to you and to God, not to us. You may think you will only answer to yourself, and if you are right, then thats great-a ll is well. But we are nonetheless a person for doing and believing in what we do. But if you are wrong, the reprecussions are horrifying.
You stated " in the end i answer only to myself, and it is whatever is within me i must reconcile. the oneness of the universe comes from the interconnectedness of equals, not in any way from powerless higher powers that the weak human mind creates to comfort itself."
Well, how does one reconcile with themself? If you did something wrong, how do you punish yourself? Or is there no punishment? How does a man like Hitler reconcile with himself? In life there are consequences to everything we do, good and bad. We always have to answer to someone- whether it is a parent, boss, lover, friend, court, government, and yes, ourselves (as in health issues). How we live that life is the same thing.
And for the record, I am a MUCH stronger person, heart, mind, body and soul, now that I know God, more so than I was not a believer. So your calling God-believing people weak minded is an unfair and inaccurate statement.

it is the power of the mind. you are stronger now because you are chanelling through the homunculus in your head.

it does not matter if it is real or not, so long as you believe it is.

the 'god is good' failure of the monothiestic religions is the ultimate flaw of thought. there is no duality. look at my thread on shunyata for example.

full understanding of a religion is to stupify onself to that religion! a good vantagepoint is necessary in these things less the obeserver effect become apparent.

connectedness with everything is the complete opposite of a almighty power in the sky concept. they are incompatible. it is a deception! that is why i refer to the monotheistic 'god' as the great deceiver. there are no gods when you realize what everything really is!

I was refering to the New Testament. I am well aware of the many Old Testament Prophecies. But people in this thread have used what Jesus Himself said in the New Testament about His ascension in to Heaven to say that He didn't go to Heaven because He was on Earth for 40 days after His resurrection.

Sorry for the misunderstanding

I highly doubt a person who is independant of the bible would not take this mark. Without this mark you wouldn't be able to buy anything. I'm sure there could be a reason for non believers to not take the mark, but it don't see that happening. I cannot think of any reason as to why they would not take it.

simple: because they do not want it. notice how many militia types there are out there? how many already have no use or trust in governments? they have no interest in your bible, nor in governments. so they will reject both.

i personally can say i have no use for any "mark" or for your bible.

Then they will be allowed to buy nothing.

So what if it came down to you eating or not? And being able to give food to your familiy? What would you do? Would you believe in neither one and starve to death?

nature provides, unless you are claiming part of the lead-up to this decision time includes paving over the entire planet....

if it did not, theft of food is another option....

better to steal your food and stand on principle than sell yourself out (which is also why you won't find me clasping a bible, no matter how bad it could be)

The entire planet will be in complete chaos. Things will be burning. It will be hell on earth. The crops will be burned, and the cattle dead and rotting.

Yes. The bible mentions loved ones turning on each other. Peace will be lifted from earth.

If these things come to pass and you still fail to see the truth then I don't know what to tell you...