Drawing uncovered of 'Nazi nuke'

The diagram appears in an undated report about nuclear weapons work in Nazi Germany


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Historians working in Germany and the US claim to have found a 60-year-old diagram showing a Nazi nuclear bomb.
It is the only known drawing of a "nuke" made by Nazi experts and appears in a report held by a private archive.

The researchers who brought it to light say the drawing is a rough schematic and does not imply the Nazis built, or were close to building, an atomic bomb.

But a detail in the report hints some Nazi scientists may have been closer to that goal than was previously believed.

The Nazis were far away from a 'classic' atomic bomb. But they hoped to combine a 'mini-nuke' with a rocket

Rainer Karlsch
The report containing the diagram is undated, but the researchers claim the evidence points to it being produced immediately after the end of the war in Europe. It deals with the work of German nuclear scientists during the war and lacks a title page, so there is no evidence of who composed it.

One historian behind the discovery, Rainer Karlsch, caused a storm of controversy earlier this year when he claimed to have uncovered evidence that the Nazis successfully tested a primitive nuclear device in the last days of WWII. A number of historians rejected the claim.

The drawing is published in an article written for Physics World magazine by Karlsch and Mark Walker, professor of history at Union College in Schenectady, US.

'Mini-nuke'

The newly uncovered document was discovered after the publication of Karlsch's book, Hitlers Bombe (Hitler's Bomb), in which he made the nuclear test claim.

"The Nazis were far away from a 'classic' atomic bomb. But they hoped to combine a 'mini-nuke' with a rocket," Dr Karlsch told the BBC News website.

"The military believed they needed around six months more to bring the new weapon into action. But the scientists knew better how difficult it was to get the enriched uranium required."

The head of Nazi Germany's nuclear energy programme was the physicist Werner Heisenberg. Though he was highly accomplished in other areas of physics, Heisenberg failed to understand a key aspect of nuclear fission chain reactions.

Heisenberg's uncertainty

Some researchers say this led him to overestimate the amount of uranium - the so-called fissile material - required to build a nuclear bomb.


Hitler was desperate for weapons that would turn the tide of the war
However, the German report contains an estimate of slightly more than 5kg for the critical mass of a plutonium bomb. This is comparatively close to the real figure and may suggest some Nazi scientists had a better grasp of nuclear fission than Heisenberg.

Professor Paul Lawrence Rose, of Pennsylvania State University, US, and author of a 1998 book about the German uranium programme, said he had no reason to believe the report was not genuine, but was dubious about the significance of the critical mass detail.

"Though it's wonderful to find the 5kg figure written on the document, one has to be sceptical about the rationale for it. Even if it's true and [some scientists] did understand it, Heisenberg's group wouldn't have accepted it," Rose told the BBC News website.

He further speculated it was possible the author arrived at this figure by reading the Smyth Report into the development of the US atomic bomb, which was published in July 1945. But Karlsch and Walker reject this claim.

Bombshell claim

In Hitlers Bombe, Dr Karlsch suggests a team of scientists directed by the physicist Kurt Diebner, which was in competition with Heisenberg's group, tested a primitive nuclear device in Thuringia, eastern Germany, in March 1945.

Rose says that this is unlikely. Transcripts of conversations taped by MI6 when the scientists were held captive in England after the war showed Diebner lacked the knowledge to have done this, he says.

"Karlsch revealed some very important details in his book, but I can't go along with the picture he constructs with those details - of a Nazi nuclear test," said Professor Dieter Hoffmann, of the Max Planck Institute for the History of Science, in Berlin.

But in their Physics World article, Karlsch and Walker point to evidence of innovations made by Diebner's team, including a nuclear reactor design superior to that produced by Heisenberg's group.

"[Diebner] got the research papers from all other groups and he could control the information flux. Only a few scientists around Diebner knew about his bomb project. Heisenberg was not aware of it," Dr Karlsch explained.

Reminds me of a joke;

Proffesor Heisenberg gets pulled over by a policeman for speeding.
The policeman walks over tho Dr. Heisenbergs car, tells him to roll down the window and asks him, "Do you have any idea how fast you were going?"


Dr. Heisenberg looks puzzled for a moment, then answers "No. But I know where I am."

i posted that for the main pages
but it hasnt appeared yet...

I think we can imagine a much different Europe today if the Nazis had held out until they had nuclear warheads on their V2's.

i thought all tis talk of nazi nuke was discussed and proved to be just rumour
and that this was not coming to fruitition

I think that the facts are showing that the Nazis had a crude design, but lacked enough fisionable material for a bomb.
They had balistic missles, so if they had been able to produce enough plutonium or U 232, they would have had a nuclear warheaded missle.

deffo not a nuclear A bomb
hydrogen bomb

Not sure what your exactly trying to say Roswell, but it was a fission bomb, an A-bomb. A fusion bomb is an H-bomb.A dirty bomb is conventional explosives with radioactive material enclosed to spread radioactivity.

ah, the news is up
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=42176

u got the info from bbc stite DJ?

If they had held out ?
they didn't because we didn't let them
i thought that was the point
thats like saying the germans wouldn't have had a chance if we'd waited for Harrier jump jets before we declared war on them
hehe

I got it from the Fortean Times, but I think it was the same BBC report Roswell.

(I will let you all in on a secret, they didn't have a nuclear device because they didn't use it. Shhhhhhhhh.)

Not exactly. The Germans were 6 mos away, according to this report, not 40 years like the Harriers.

If the Gremans had concentrated their divisions at the Normandy beacheads, its concievable they could have repulsed the first landing attempts and prolonged the war by at least 6 mos.

wishful thinking......

If
perhaps
maybe
don't win wars
luckily for us

I'd have to agree. I'm pretty happy the war turned out the way it did.

Can you imagine Hitler with the bomb? Scary thought.

It's pretty unlikely that the Nazis would have devoted time, money, and effort to an unbelievable idea that was thought up by a jew.

Well, I that's ironic yes, but you brought up a good point regarding whether or not the Nazis would have had the resources for the program.
They were being bombed to hell, and were stretched very thin.
They had a lot of advanced weapons, V2 rockets and jets, but not the resources for mass production and deployment.

if hitler would have thought he could have developed an a bomb,he damn sure would have.truth is,he was too busy caught up in his own rage and insanity,he rarely only listened to anybody but himself.

If Hitler had the "A" bomb we'd all be having this conversation right now in german.
personally i understand it but i wouldn't say i was fluent
imao i would be a very good obersturmfuerher
just in case they're listening

Mr. Ed is correct. They were so close though....so very, very, close! That isn't a rumour...that is fact. The very day they had perfected a weapon would have been the day they used it....on London.

i'm with ya,but i would'nt be around.i'm having a hard enough time speaking english. if the nazis would have had an a bomb,you are right they would have used it the day they got it,and they would have definetly sent it to engald on a v12.

a V12 ?
are you sure
why not V8
nah thats a drink

i had a brain fart case of the dumbass man. i meant v2.i know the idea of being bombed by a v8 almost makes me sh** my pants though.

Thats the same effect as drinking it iirc

i think you are nuttier than me my friend,and that's no easy task.

the NAZI's had more than just one bomb.

j/k Yeah they were fiddiling with atomic power so yeah they might have made a prototype.

they did a great job at hiding it then,cause to this day they have'nt found it.
the nazis were'nt stupid though,once they had learned how to split the atom,it would'nt have taken them long to figure out how to use it as a weapon.

I must be thats the second time you said that

If the Nazi's did have an A-Bomb they were afraid to use it. I think they were more interested in creation than in destruction.






were afraid for all the devastation it would cause, and they didn't want to be branded as butchers. Tho they were

the nazi's were more interested in creation than destruction ?
tell that to 6,000,000 jews

Actually it is interesting to see some of the ideas the Nazis had on strategic warfare. What might have saved the rest of the world was that the Nazis became so over confident after their initial victories that the limited or stopped development on many of these projects.

The V1 and V2 are fairly well known simply because they managed to make these operational. What is less well known are their plans for a transatlantic bomber, the "Amerika" bomber, and even an orbital bomber! If the Nazis had continued development on these from earlier in the war things might have been quite different.

I still haven't seen enough evidence to convince me the Nazis were as close to a nuclear device as some are now claiming. I think the bigger miracle is that they didn't use their nerve gas munitions against the Allied ground forces or even against England. The generally accepted theory is that the Nazis knew the Allies also had chemical weapons and would use them in retaliation.

In the case of the German Orbital Rocket Bomber, the 'Sanger Project', they knew they didn't have a proper weapon for it. It would have only had a payload of about a ton and they knew that the bombs accuracy would be minimal. One proposal they had was to use the bomber to disperse a radiological agent over the United States. I find it very interesting that they were able to think along these lines. How many other nations were thinking of attacking another nation from space in 1944?

I would say the Nazis were willing to lay waste to areas outside Germany.
What they wanted initially was more farmland in their immediate vicinity, and industrial areas beyond that. And then, the world.

If they had the materials, they would have found ways to use them- tactical, or by plane. Things would have gotten very out of control.

But they didn't. One reason is money, another is...water.
First, the V-2 program was delayed until 1942, because of costs.
Then Hitler authorized it. However, it took large reserves of resources. As a percentage of german GDP, it consumed an equivalent to the Manhattan Project, in the US.

When Von Braun proposed the A-9, a two staged cruise rocket, he planned it to
carry either reconnaissance, or a bomb payload. Hitler locked it down, being too expensive. Even so, given the war, they would have failed mid-term.

The A9


I mentioned water. Here is a post I did on the main news-

That the US provided loans to Germany in the '20s, and that the Allies dropped reparations by the end of the Depression. Further, the western front in WWI kept the war out of the German industrial heartland, and it remained intact during French occupation. It was ready to supply a new Germany once they reorganized. The reactionary forces in Germany and a fear of communism united large numbers- the rich feared Russian influence, the middle class wanted stability, the poor- a job. Hitler created massive works projects- roads, military, just like Roosevelt.

But, they did not do it alone. They used their treasury gold to buy chromite from Turkey, the Swedes made good money on iron ore and ball bearings, and the super-essential tungsten for machining tools came from Spain and Portugal.

And, as for the atomic matters, I suspect it the brain-drain to the US did not help.
A few German top scientist did know about atomic possibilities, which is why they
went after heavy water in Norsk, Norway. Before they did, stores of the liquid were diverted by the allies to France, and during 1940, it was shipped back to England. That, and dozens of french scientists, and a large cash of industrial-grade diamonds (for making cutting tools).

The Nazis went to Norsk, and tried to run the factory, themselves. The allies had little means to penetrate German defenses, and Engalnd failed with one air invasion, using commandos and gliders. They later sent in an elite group of a dozen Norwegian commandos, who used a lot of dynamite. There were new bombing runs that hit the factory area, and so the Nazis took their loot, and left.
But the whole lot was sunk, by a Nowegian.

And lastly, did Heisenburg ever drag his feet? Maybe he was too isolated to catch on to designing a weapon. But, the main factor is really the way the Americans
put 200,000 people into building their first two weapons. That is what it took.
The Germans were shooting their own people for 'hoarding' food toward the end of the war, not sending it to the front. What a crock. That system was not capable, at the end, of mass projects.

i would imagine you two guys have already seen this place
http://www.luft46.com/

amerika bomber horton

amerika bomber sanger
and everything else the allies would have had to contend with in 1946
You'll notice the first one looks a lot like a modern day bomber
guess why

Thank you Marduk! I'll add these to my growing graphics collection!

This one is probably one of their most insidious
it was designed to be flown by children in the Hitler Youth

http://www.luft46.com/fw/fwvolks.html
Its called the "Volksjager" and so in reality is a forerunner to this

Marduk, let me recommend a book to you:

'Secret Aircraft Designs of the Third Reich', David Myhra, 1998, Schiffer Publishing

Its sort of a bible for people interested in this sort of thing. Its not a cheap book but I have an unnatural fondness for it. I consider if bedside reading.

Have you seen the luftwaffe 46 documentary ?
i recommend that

I have. My biggest ongoing problem is keeping up with my reading of all these different books and websites. It seems like in the last five years quite a bit of new information has become available about the Nazis and the German war effort. Some of it really doesn't open any new doors but some of it is intriguing. I posted a message about this on another discussion concerning if Nazi weapons influenced the Cold War.

Nazis Germany does not have the uranium or the resources to refine uranium at the tail end of the war. Several of the planes depicted look like contemporaries, for example the B2 look alike, which would fail if it was a propellor driven craft, nor is it practical since stealth technology wasn't so advance at that time!

Actually, for the sake of discussion, it should be noted that Horton did have a jet engine configuration for this 'Amerikabomber'. I don't think the Nazis were even considering Stealth at this time. The Uranium argument is a valid one though. I've noticed that one of the big questions they had in their long range strategic bomber program was what a realistic payload would be. They had this same question with the Sanger project as well.

and modern stealth technology uses two innovations
it uses low reflective anti radar paint and.
a low radar reflective single wing shape the same as the Amerika Bomber,

im sure i saw the 'Amerikabomber' on a cartoon show on toonami......