It might just be ignorance on my part...but, from what I remember, the bible never said that there weren't any other gods or dieties, you just aren't allowed to put them in front of God.

What's your take on this?

Are there other gods and/or dieties?

When the angels of Enoch came to Earth certain people considered them and their hybrid offspring, the Nephilim, to be 'gods'. They aren't 'gods', they just aren't human.

Mnay of the 'gods' the Egyptians depicted look like the description of angels. Like the 4 headed-3 part animal Cherubim representative of the 4 fixed signs of the zodiac.

Ashley, is the "Only GOD can judge me" in your profile Tu Pac's song... or did u just put that there? j/w

*good song btw

What is 'The Book of Enoch'? Can you give me a general idea of what is in it?

What about dieties such as Zeus, Athena, Posiedon, etc...? Could they have been Nephilim?

the book of Enoch is one of the "lost books of the Bible" they are books which supposedly were left out when the Bible was created.

Something that the 'church' didn't want 'us' to see (type of thing)?

Isn't there supposedly a book of the bible that was written by Jesus himself, that basically cast out religous gathering places, and says that god is within us all... And needless to say, the catholic church keeps it under lock and key for 'personal' gain, to continue the money flowing in....

The Old Testament refers to "gods" as in the false gods that the nations worship. These gods take the guise of idols in the shape of Earthly creatures, which obviously have no power because God created all these things in the first place. The prophet Isaiah for example, spoke to the people of Israel saying



Idols are man-made objects that have no value, but God is everlasting!

Furthermore, each person follows or strives for something in their lives. Whatever that "something" is, to them that is god. If it is money, then their god is money (cf. Matthew 19:16-24). If it is career, then that is their god. If they trust only in themselves, they are their own god. The list is endless. But as with idols, they are only things created by human beings. Why worship them when you can worship the creator of these things.

Hope this information helps. Until next time,

They're all fictitious creations used as a means to control the ignorant and gullible. No offense. So no. There are none.

book of enoch

The bible does say that there are no other gods except the true God of Israel.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

19 Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

20 Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

The bible also says that the false gods that the heathen worship are devils.
Devils have deceived people into worshipping them.

1 Corinthians 10:20 But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
39 1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.


Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Ecko,

Yes, actually it is from 2pac's song, but it has a double meaning lol.

Jay,

The Book of Enoch is the REAL first book of the Bible. Enoch was the first prophet and the first to write, and his book predates Geneis. Genesis in fact came from Jubilees, given to MOSES, (Enoch was BEFORE the flood, Noah's great-grandfather) by an angel, and within it is an account of the fall of the angels, Nephilim and Enoch's book. Genesis was a SECOND account of creation given by an angel (and goes more in-depth than Genesis goes, as, like many other books in the Bible, it's only part of the whole original text, Jubilees), Enoch was told the account of Creation directly by God (and that creation was 7000 YEARS, not 7 days, as one day to God is 1000 Earth years). The Jwish people DID keep it as a sacred book, and it was in the Dead Sea Scrolls, but didn't accept the notion of fallen angels. With Christianity, it was Augustine who threw it out, along with astrology (it specifically states that God have the horoscope - entire astrological birth chart - to every newborn child), ad in it's places bmade up the idea of 'Original Sin'.

And yes, those Greek mythology, Egyptian 'gods' etc ALL fit the description of both Nephilim AND angels.

Hmm... why do you seem so positive about that? How do you know its not the other way around kind of... where the Biblical god is one of the bad characters who is trying to syphon followers from true gods such as the Egyptian or greek gods by portraying THEM as bad ones?

Hmm... why do you seem so positive about that? How do you know its not the other way around kind of... where the Biblical god is one of the bad characters who is trying to syphon followers from true gods such as the Egyptian or greek gods by portraying THEM as bad ones?
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because it is like war. each side must believe itself to be the 'right' side. same as how people always presuppose that they are 'right' because to premise with the opposite is to have to challenge what they believe in.

Zandore has a few of the quotes from the bible that I was talking about. It kind of leads me to believe that there are other gods, but you can't put them above the Lord. It's just kind of strange to me...
If God created the heavens and the earth, did he create the angels and/or other dieties, or did they co-exist in the nothingness that was before everything...
To me (personally), there is an essence of God within everything. He created it and allows it's existance for reasons that are unknown to us. And he left Gaia or Mother Earth to care for us and provide a home.

there is no doubt about the references to other gods in the OT. it is just that they all answered to one 'ultimate god'.

Ashley, you are mistaken in believing that Genesis is the first biblical book. The bible is not in order of date written. Job is actualy the first book of the bible.

The way i see it is this:

Religion is like the Constitution is over the U.S.
-Guidlines to keep us equal and prevent chaos. ( Most religions of course. )

Other religions around the world are simply like the constitutions each of the states has that reflect that state. Different but in the end the same.

I do believe that the one true god is all dieties in other religions as well but casts himself in a way that place/people will understand or will adopt the ideals.

Thats just me. Flame away, i really dont care.

Yeah...haha. In the religious wars they ever thought that theyre fighting for the same God with just a different name. Duh... Human species is so aggressive.

Peeps...if God truly wanted us to believe in Him and just Him, he'd show a miracle to us or appear to us when we're gathered. The God you're worhshipping isnt important, your belief is. The purpose of belief is having a purpose in life I guess, maybe that's why humans have such a strong natural need to believe in some higher power.

Friggin mindless killing over Gods is stupid and crazy. It's just a damn excuse anyway for some political ambitions..

All the passages that Zandore brought up (in my opinion) refer to gods that man has created in place of the true and living God. A lot of the time, the Bible refers to bowing down to an idol that man has created, which has led me to believe that all gods outside of the true God (YHWH) are false creations by man.

There are 29 verses that I know of right off the bat that refer to more that one God. Want them?

If the rest were false idols why was God so against worshipping them?

Because that means people wouldn't be worshipping Him.

And the very human emotion of 'jealousy' rears its head in the godhead figure. Interesting.

Our God is a jealous God.

Want some more on this line?

I'm not really sure what your trying to get at here.

Those passages are in reference to God not showing favouritism to individuals, but accepting people universally. It's not in any way being referenced to other gods.

That there is more to your God that you think or more than you know.

Hey guys I got this from dailydevos.com it is an awesome example of idols and such. I will post it here. I found it very interesting it is about the false god Dagon.

“The elders understood clearly that if God was not ‘with’ them, defeat was inevitable... They mistakenly assumed, however, that wherever the ark was, the Lord was” [1]. The ark symbolized God’s presence, but didn’t guarantee it. By itself, it was just a box, like any other religious relic honored by the pagan nations surrounding the Israelites.

When the warriors marched into battle, the ark was nearby, but God’s strength and victory weren’t. The Philistines won the battle, captured the ark, and carried it back to their deity’s temple as a trophy of war.

Their chief god was named Dagon. Depending on who you ask, Dagon was either a god of grain or a god of fish. Either way, it was a false god symbolized by a dead idol in their temple. When the Philistines captured the Ark of God, they placed it next to the idol of Dagon. This is the part of the story that I love... When they came into the temple the next day, Dagon’s idol had fallen onto its face on the ground. They set it back up, and again it fell, only this time it broke into pieces. Then the people in the city started getting tumors, which they believed to be a plague sent from the Israelite God, similar to the previous afflictions of the Egyptians. So they moved the ark to another city. But the same thing happened there. People were getting sick and dying. So they begged their leaders to get rid of the ark. Eventually the Philistines loaded it onto an un-manned cart, and let two cows carry it off wherever they might go. [See chapter 5]

That’s a great narrative. We could use that as a sermon about idols. Anything that you value or prioritize above God is an idol. It doesn’t have to be a statue carved in gold. Idolatry can be the way you use your time. Sorry, no time for God. Idolatry can be the way you spend your money. Sorry, I need money for other things God. Idolatry can be your job, your habits, even your family or yourself. Anything that you value or prioritize above God is an idol.

Maybe you all will enjoy it too.

So I guess we should all dispose of our homes, our possessions, and our clothes in order to sit on the ground and worship the sky god, because anything less is 'idolatry'.

No silly you should not where clothes and eat nothing because then you won't worship food. Duh? No I think it is saying if you love $$$ more than God then that is bad. saying if you would rather work work work and never spend time with him and pray is bad. But you can love family,sex,food,money,clothes, and whatever but just as long as it isn't going to be an idol to you.

* I mean I love corned beef hash man but I don't worship it*

I am just going to give you my perception of God inasmuch as I am able to comprehend His revelation of Himself to me.

First to me God is not a being, God is a Spirit.

God is the Spirit of Absolute Truth and Righteousness.

We all have our own perception of truth and righteousness, do not mistake that as God.

There are 2 distinct aspects of God as shown above. 1_TRUTH and 2_RIGHTEOUSNESS

For me TRUTH is the reality of the physical world we perceive around us.
With the invention of scientific instruments we now realize that reality is not the stuff we see around us. Reality has become the stuff of infrared and ultraviolet, the stuff of sub-atomic particles. What we see is an illusion, smoke and mirrors, just a dim reflection of reality. "Now we see dimly as through a glass, then we shall see face to face.".
For me the TRUTH is science tells us energy cannot be created or destroyed, whatever exists now has always existed and will always exist. The same thing has been said about God.

When it comes to RIGHTEOUSNESS, or the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, I believe the Golden Rule illustrates the concept behind what is right. The 10 Commandments and the teachings of Christ indicate that the right thing is to love others. You have the do not do to other what you wouold not want other to do to you version of the Golden Rule, the do not kill, steal from, commit adultery against others as the 10 commandments, and the proactive do unto others as you would have them do unto you teachings of Jesus.

There are many reasons why this is the right thing to do and indeed it is the "Purpose of Life" even if life was not the result of an intelligent creation, but merely a giant freak of cosmic nature. This can be explored further if anyone is interested.

Question: I have always wanted this explained from a religious point of view (not being remotely religious myself), if God is all merciful then surely it doesn't matter how bad you are in life, you will still go to heaven?

And if heaven is the best place to be and only the innocent can go there, why aren't Christians killed at birth? Would it not be a kindness to children?

Also, if one of the ten commandments says not to kill how come the Bible speaks of 'an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth'?

Further more, what about matrimony? Surely Adam and Eve were not married before they started reproducing?

I am not raising these points in arrogance, I merely have never found anyone to answer them satisfactorily. Please explain if you would....

All dieties are just our perceptions of the one true God of Truth and Righteousness.

None of us know the absolute TRUTH and RIGHTEOUSNESS.

No man can know God.

First God is not the one who decides whether or not you go to heaven, you are.
You go to heaven or hell based on the consequences of your actions.
You will reap what you sow, a natural law, not a Godly decree.
When I child disobeys their parents and plays on the road, when they are hit by a truck, it is not because their parents saw them playing on the road and called a cement company and said "Please send a cement truck and run over our boy as punishment for disobeying us." God is like a GOOD parent constantly warning us not to do the things that will end up harming us.

We know that many children end up drug addicts , prostitutes, criminals, why not kill them all at birth to prevent our children from making such mistakes and ending up in horrible situations? The same can be said of God. Just as we must allow our children to make their own decisions after they have reached adult hood and left home, so too now that we are FREE to do what we WILL, we must live with the consequences of our choices.

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth are the nature of reap what you sow. Jesus taught forgiveness for forgiveness. Jesus taught if we forgive others God will forgive us. God said I desire mercy, not sacrifice. Again Do not kill means live your life respecting and loving others. Do not steal, commit adultery or bear false witness. Doing those things not only harm others, because you are a part of the human race you are also hurting a part of yourself. And by making negative choices you are turning yourself into a person who will reap the consequences of the sowing the wrong seeds. But never forget that reap what you sow also means doing GOOD things in order to reap good results.

It is the same NATURAL law, use it wisely. Use your knife to butter bread for the sandwich you make for your neighbor, do not use it to stab your neighbor.


The marriage laws were made long after Adam and Eve were around. They were necessary to show a commitment to the person you had chosen as your mate. When you only had one choice, you did not need a marriage law.

I am more than willing to clarify or expound on anything you find a problem with. I hope you are as willing to accept the TRUTH whn God reveals it to you. And feel free to share that Truth with me when He does reveal it to you.

Thanks for replying, though I don't think I'll be experiencing 'truth' any time soon

firstly, the concept of natural laws is a fallacy.
secondly, marital laws are social constructs to document passage of property (heirs).

We all experience our own perception of the Truth. None of us can know the Absolute Truth .

We use the word God as a place holder for the unknown.

I agree with the second point. Could you clarify why the concept of natural laws is a fallacy?


Are all concepts fallacies?

Can you give an example of a concept that is not a fallacy, it may help me understand the point you are trying to make.

the construct fallacy:

humans create constructs of the world around them based either on partial knowledge or imagination.

now humans have a nasty habit of thinking that just because the idea is in their head, it exists external to the head.

in this specific case, natural law, is a product of a line of philosophy that mechanized the world around us. the problem with this is that the premis of a mechanistic world is a human construct that has no basis in reality. it was created to explain things without any factual basis.

nature does not operate by laws, the only consistancy you see in these created laws comes from the parameters placed upon them.

I've got to agree with Doccy.

My boss is Moslem and Palestinian. We often asked him his view on the current war, and the constant unrest in the Middle East. He described his religion as one of peace, which confused us, because of the constant fighting that has been going on in that area. He explained that it really wasn't religion that was an issue. It was years and years of cultural differences, politics and the hunger for power, wealth and land that has fueled these wars. Power and money corrupt.

This makes me believe that many wars that have been attributed to religion or differences of religion were actually wars of power, politics and cultural differences which were simply hiding behind religion for justification. I think God has gotten a bad rap.

As for more than one God...all we really know is from history, our experience and personal beliefs. I think there is only one God, but he has many faces and many names.

I don't think that habit is always necessarily "nasty". You personally may have a problem with the conept of beauty, but I think it is an enjoyable distraction from whatever "reality" really is. The beauty of a sunset, they beauty birds singing, the beauty of a smile.

Perhaps it was created to provide us with purpose and substance. A place for a drifting soul in a empty universe to make port and enjoy a little R&R.

It is the paramaters we place on them that makes them laws. Humans do indeed tend to like to have boundaries they can use for purposes of orientation.

i refer to it as a nasty habit because it is one way in which people arrive at false absolutes, and we know where false absolutes lead....

beauty, like everything is transitory, relative, dynamic. there is no absoulute beauty, nor should there ever be.

the majorty of people go through their entire lives living in a false reality never even coming close to understanding.

Yes indeed we do see that false absolutes can lead to a life of HELL for many people. Who is talking about absolute beauty? I have already noted that humans because of their limitations of humanity cannot know any absolutes, specifically Truth and Righteousness. My guess is that you are inhabitting the same type of limited human shell that I must inhabit and are also just as ignorant of absolute values as any of us. Are you prepared to recognize and admit to your own limitation in terms of the knowledge of Truth and Righteousness?

They say ignorance is bliss, and sometimes I agree. There are many things I wish I had never heard or seen. To be ignorant of hatred and lust and and coveteousness. The next best thing is to not focus on the negatives.

So what is wrong with focussing on the more positive values like, love, honor and respect of others. We may never know the absolutes of any of these things but we can at least strive in the right direction for them.

Absolute Hell <----------------- humanity --------------------> Absolute Heaven

They give us a reason
To go on living
It's all in the choices
That you have to make

I got to tell you
You better make them good
I got to tell you

of course all humans are limited in capacity by the senses they posess.

it is important to see that the "Truth and Rightousness" are also fallacies of the human mind. to strive for that beyond us, the covet that which we do not have. it imagine, and as i said before, many mistake imagination for reality.

dream, it is powerful. all the power exists within you, not without you. the costructs are only true within and only because you make them so. absolutes are for fools. "gods" are not out there, but in a pea-sized part of your brain.

Jesus said if you had faith the size of the grain of a mustard seed you could say to this mountain move from here to there and it would.

We certainly understand now the power of the tiny atom. Why should we be doubtful that such a power as faith may really exist.

You are saying exactly the same thing as Jesus did in different words.

We create our reality with our faith. As it says in the Lords Prayer.

Thy will be done on earth "this perception of reality" as it is in heaven "the spiritual perception of reality".

What is wrong with constructing a reality of Truth and Righteousness which is composed of "Loving Others"?

Actually primarily in the Old Testament you find vaguries about how many gods exist. For example it is not I am the Lord your God and there are n other gods. It is "I am the lord your God and you shall have no other gods before me." ONe possible answer lies inthe belief that Judaism was originaly a henotheistic religion. Henotheism holds that there are other gods but each tribe as its God that is the most important for them. As such it would be wrong for a Jew to worship Ra for example becuase Ra was an Egyptian god but it would be wrong for an Egyptian to worship Yhwh becuase he was not there god. It is worth noting Judaism is probably the least evengelical of the worlds religion with little to no interest in converting others.

In the New Testament there is a direct refference to another god(lower case intentional). Jesus himself refered to Satan as the god of this world and the prince of this age. I personally believe it has more to do with the materialistic nature of many people then any thing else but the statement stands.

As to the book of Enoch it's an apocryphal text that has recently become popular. Historicaly its never been accepted as scripture by either Judaism or Christianity and is considered to be like the "gospel of thomas" a forgery not written by the figure it claims to be. It makes several claims that are at odds with traditional Jewish or Christian thought(the idea humans become angels for example).

kevinm:

what else do you know of this book of enoch. i had never heard of it prior to visiting this forum. some of the claims made about it around here make me role on the floor in laughter, such as the dinosuaurs being a product of human-angel hybrids mating with lizards.

It seems that they are all the same God, but differ in the way's that 'Mankind' has interpreted them... Kind of like the Old Testament - God was a fierce, 'eye for an eye', type diety, New Testament - God chills out a bit... No more 'smiting' of the first borns...
Is this because of 'Mankinds' interpretation of the events around them had changed?

Its a book that was popular around the 1st century in Juea. Among other things it claims that the prophet Enoch transformed into the Archangel Metetron after his ascension into heaven and was given a position higher then even Michael or Gabriel. Its major concern is the fallen angels known as the watchers and there children the nephillim laying out how they're corrupting blood turned the world evil and brought about the flood.

God may be all merciful, but He is also completely just. He cannot (and when i say cannot i mean will not) allow sin to just slide. As any good parent, He must admonish and punish His children if they have committed a crime against Him (which is essentially what sin is).



The apostle Paul answers this himself. Phillipians 1:23-25 - "...I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body."

It would be better if all Christians could die and go to heaven. But it is more necessary to remain here.



This was the Law according to the old covenant. Since we are now under the new covenant instituted by Jesus, this no longer applies. Jesus' teachings from Matthew 5:38-42 -
"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."



The marriage custom that we have instituted today is just that - a custom. But marriage is still important to God. Marriage is a heart matter between man, woman and God. Genesis 2:24 "a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."



I hope this helps.