I'm not trying to convince you about NOT believing in god in any way. Just to let you see god in this way:

God was created in the achient times. To give people faith in time of needs. People having problems would think of god and that he protects you. That gives you faith but its just your inner self giving you faith ( thats god ).
Heaven is to make people not fear death. If they just believe in god you will be fine and life a perfect enternal life in heaven( Why must you believe in him? What if you did a perfect life and you did nothing wrong but did not believe in god. And then you burn for ever? ).
Hell is to make people fear of what will happen if they do bad things like murdering, stealing and not believing in god. But seriuesly how selfish are you when you tell your people that they MUST believe in you or you will let them burn for ever. We have free will right? But why must believe in god or we will suffer alot of pain what about the freewill he gave us?? Thats kinda strange aint it
The devil is a way to blame all the bad things happen to you so you wont lose faith in god.

I self dont believe in hell,heaven and god. And strict believe in evolution.
Discuss!

You've got a good point and it's logical that the faith in yourself is the God. It's natural for people to have belief in something. When we believe we have some special purpose to fulfill, life is a bit easier to live. We need someone to hear our most deepest feelings, and that's usually God. It usually doesnt matter does he hear it or not, we just need to unload ourselves.

IMO, there has to be somekind of an entity which has created this world. It doesnt have to be a humanoid like creature... It's simply a higher power which is called God.

Spyofkilling, may I ask you are you an atheist? Do you totally deny that there'd be any kind of God?

I do believe there is some power that created the world but then again. What created the power?

The entity you speak of is one of many and has not manifested itself to anyone (really). People have said that they feel it but they can't tell you they've seen it. You are right to say that people need a guide in life and someone to tell their troubles to. People use euphemisms all the time to explain what they don't understand or are to ill at ease to talk about. The 21st century will bring about much change in the way we perceive history. We will find no use for myth and legend except for entertainment purposes. We will live what is real not imagined.

the 'entitity' is not separate, but is the recognition that you are but a part of a very large system. all the 'powers' are equal and necessary for the system to function the way it is today. it is man's folly to abritrarily decide there are 'higher' powers, and thus 'lower' powers. if this were the case, it would be the lower powers you should be 'praying' to because it is these powers that sustain you.

never underestimate the human!

the reason for the belief in 'gods' or any equivilant is because of the hardwiring in our heads. the difference with 'atheists' is that the 'god' is recognized as a part of the primative brain/mind. this will not just go away unless we evolve to a point were we no longer have this part of the brain.

mythology will ALWAYS be with us. mythology is a religion, it is a long phase cycle within society. all human societies have had them because they are a necessary part of forming the stability of society. yet, we are entering an age where these long phase cycles are going to change along with the short phase cycles. that is why we have what the 'believers' refer to as all this badness. theology is leaving us in place of more rational thought. the long phase cycles are shortening while the short phase cycles are lengthening.

the term 'god' may some day go and we will refer to it the way we refer to the homunculus now, but it will still be there. we will just have a proper understanding of what is happening in our heads.

on a closing note: do not underestimate the value of some of the ancient texts. while most is superstitious bunk, there is also incredible knowledge contianed in some of them.

Many christians believe in evolution as well. They dont rule each other out.

I like the way you put that spyofkilling I agree with you totally. God is a manmade thing, always has been and shall always be that way. For those whom chose to believe in God and it makes them happy, then I guess it doesn't hurt. It can be a good thing, although I think it's kind of living in a fantasy world, but each to their own.

I don't really think that god/faith was created to protect people, more to controll them, just my two bits

'gods' come from the mind. they were not created for control, but later were morphed into that role via religion.

somewhere along the way someone thought 'hey, these people believe what the voice in their heads is telling them. i can use that....'

Yup...that's how the Catholic Church got into power. But now that people have started to think more they've lost control.

well, i wouldn't say it lost controll, but more, just created a self acting machine, the personal influence is lost, but the ideals are still pushing themselves on a level closer to the common man.

Have you not ever felt true evil, as if there was someone or something near you a fear you could not explain? i belive there can not be good with out evil i know and i know first hand the power of Satan, as well as the power of God, do we have the power in us to control certain things, maybe but there is no good with out evil and no love with out hate the ying and yang of the world is balance, and the two will always go hand in hand,so maybe it is a question to think more about!!

Religon is about control, What better way to control then to sell you on the idea of Satan, without fear there is no control. I think God is an inside job, I think the pathway of religion isn't really about cultivating a relationship with God its more about following manmade rules to get into heaven. I think its very ineffective (religion) As a whole mankind isn't very evolved we still kill. lie steal. etc.. I don't think religon works other than to keep people in a state of fear. We need to think for ourselves more, question more, Any comments

*Rules Ama out because she's evil like that*
Muhaha!

My parents both felt that way about Pope John Paul II. When they saw him on TV they just had this "feeling of dread and evil" that they couldn't explain

I have that feeling anytime I go by a Church, Mosque, or Synagogue

Funny you say this, because I don't live in fear. Nor doed anyone else I know that is religious.

Amalgamut, If you & your christian friends were told you would absolutely without a doubt go to this place you call hell, you would be very afraid. Thats the kind of fear tactic everyone is talking about.

Great topic!. I for one am still undecided. While I think of myself as an atheist, I guess that I am in all reality, an agnostic with some new age leanings. I am aware of the history of archaeology, anthropology, sociology, and history. All of those areas tell us about what spy has stated-that mankind has a difficult time comprehending his own demise. There are many "self-defense" mechanisms of the mind that are created to help people protect themselves from reality. Some people blank things out, some people have different personalities, and others have religion in my honest opinion.

With all this being said, I have meditated with a Buddhist monk, I've taken communion at a Methodist church, and I've seen the quiet fortitude of an activist Unitarian. These experiences have led me to believe that there is "something" more than just warm-fuzzies and firing neurons that makes these people tick, something that makes them.....different. To this day, I'm really not certain what I believe or know where I'm going, but I'll figur ethat out someday.

Um, no.

i think your real fear is that your bible is wrong and there is no biblegod, no heaven, no rapture, ect.

a strong grasp on your "crutch" you have there, my friend.

Well, you're wrong.

then what is it you really fear?

or is it i am wrong about you keeping a strong grasp on your religion?

What is it that I fear? honestly...I don't know. But I know its not "hell".

A person usually mantains a strong grasp on their personal beliefs. Be it religions or be it certain techniques of waxing a car.

habituation.

compare your insight here to your other posts on free will. you will see how free will is an illusion, a fallacy. (much like "gods" external to the head are a fallacy)

hehe

I did not say I felt fear, I said I felt EVIL! There is a big difference.

Likewise, it is rather hard to fear a fairy tale place!

Buddhist monks have a great way at looking at the world
to them there is no Creator God, and that all things are equal
because of the belief of reincarnation, a bird or bug could be
your mom or dad

All the gods we known of are created from a human perspective, this would make it a nonexistence theory of there was no humanity. God devours whole cultures of the world, feeding wars, hatred, and dishonor towards others opinions. Religion can even effect how people act, and things they completely block away from culture at a face level. People consider god the creator of all, but quantum psychics prove that there is something even more powerful then the god created from ancient era’s. For all we know this world could simply be a deception of the brain devouring signals from the eyes, because the eyes are like a camera, but the brain is like the devouring the important information. Even the blind use the brain the suck in information which are sent to the base of human control, the brain. So I think god is just a creation powered by imagination towards faith and mystery of self creation. If humans don’t know what something is they simply create a fake meaning into it and evolving it into an archetype. So if god is simply a creation of our own imagination and curiosity towards life doesn’t that make god wrong for the corruption of others due to his archetype meaning? He simply continues off the ones who are futher infused to an archetype which subliminally controls the brains opinion towards it. So when the brains chemicals produce that emotion towards the belief of god it soon starts to regenerate and impulse into an instant anger mechanism if the brains status if refused by anyone. That’s why some many people get angry at religious topics, because that cell in their blood streams have become so hardened by the archetype they feel EVERYONE should be in belief towards the religion they are manifested by.

Beleiving in God is better than taking chance in going to Hell burning!!

Hell is a figment of your fear. Your only worried about it because someone told you to be afraid.

and yet strangely enough so many "believers" claim to not have any fear at all. the magic of it all is the delusion that what they believe must be true and therefore nothing but goodness awaits them! no fear of burning, because they love their god, no fear of death because the next life is better (although i seem to see enough believers doing everything possible to postpone going to the better life, so i don't think they believe as whole-heartedly as they claim to believe), and on and on and on.

there is nothing more powerful than the surrendering to irrational thought and the powers of the primative mind.

"I don't fear hell."

"They why believe in god?"

"Because I don't want to be in hell."

"Isn't that fearing it?"

"I don't fear hell! I just told you!"

"But not wanting to go to it means you fear it..."

"Shut up!! You're wrong!!"


*does the logic hand puppet theater*

There really is more to it than this.

Besides, not wanting to be there is different from fearing it.

and this is his greatest deception. Well, not quite. Not yet.....

if you had nothing to fear, you would not have a reason to be such a devout believer. if biblegod was "mr. unconditional love and forgiveness", it would not matter if you doubted him, for he would forgive. it is his threats that keep the minions in line, as with any effective tyrant.

No, you are wrong. That is a false asumption. I am not a believer because I am "afraid of hell." Matter of fact, I hardley ever think about it, nor do I strive to learn more about it.

And Just because someone is a "devout follower" does not mean they are afraid of an opposing force.


Maybe so.....

We don't really know beacuse nobody has ever came back and spoken of this event. Even if they did, there would be no way to prove it.

it is all a matter of perception, amal.

many belief structures offer no threats and yet people follow faithfully.

you may not fear the wrath of the biblegod, but many do. (sadly)

Yes, I agree.