Lamont - please stop refering to our belief as "buybull". Petty name calling isn't going to get us anywhere. To you it may be a load of crap. To us, it is the true and honest Word of God. You're only going to end up starting a pointless and time wasting argument by posting in such a manner.

Regards,

Sorry if it offends you, but I try to be truthful to my beliefs and I see the name of your book of mythology as the Buybull - since so much of it is just that! If you want to believe it, power to you and I will quite calling it by that name when you quit passing your mythology off as the truth without verifiable evidence - that offends me! So a trade, you quite trying to pass your mythology off as the truth (or submit valid verifiable evidence that it is) and I will quite calling your Mythology Book the Buybull!

I cannot do that. To me, the Bible is the true Word of God.

You disagree - i understand and respect that.

But there's gotta be a less inflamatory way of putting your belief other than "buybull". After all, you've used it like, what? 8 times in 5 posts. A bit excessive if you ask me.

Because it over simplifies and pigeon holes. Also Patrick was not a pagan god. Very far from it as historical records strongly imply the "serpents" he drove out of Ireland was in fact hold out pagans he helped to kill.

Sigh gotta love the bashers. The bible is a historical record and frankly deserves to be treated as such. So far in the instances when historians have discounted the bible they've been proven wrong more then once. For example the bible referred to the Canaanites a civilization that most historians discounted for a hundred years. Yet suprise suprise proof was eventually found that they did exist. Is the bible admittedly very religious in bent? Absolutely. Does that make it useless as a historical text? ONly if you want to throw out what we know of the Egyptians and Romans. IT was claimed that Augustus Ceaser was the son of Apollo and he later claimed that Julius was a god and ascended to Heaven on a commet. Should we there for conclude both men are pure fairy tale bully bull because he couldn't have risen to heaven on a commet? For that matter the Pharophs of Egypt were supposed to have been gods. That can't be true either so why not assume that the men are all myths created to further religion.

Yup, someone has to keep the Christ pushers in their place and who else but us skeptics (call us bashers if you like) are up to it.

Where did you get that idea, Apologetics R Us? There was no Canaanite culture! There was a number of city states that came from the same ancestrial peoples that had migrated to Palestine during the middle Bronze Age. Each city state's culture was similar but not identical to those of the other city states. The Israelites had a culture that was similar but not identical to those other people, since they too came from the same ancestry. Please if you are going to try to use history, at least study it!

I do not mean't anything but the bible did claim that Abraham was from Ur. Remember that the Torah was written later after Moses, clearly discrepancies would show up. nevertheless the proof that Judaism goes back 3000yrs is quite good. What is buybull?

But how does it offend you? If so, what are your beliefs exactly?

Nobody is asking you to belive anything. Frankly I don't give a damn what you think (nor would I waste my time trying to "push Christ" on you).

Why don't you stand behind your words and quote someone that said "YOU NEED TO BELIEVE IN CHRIST!!!" or even so, any comment that lead you to believe that somone was "pushing Christ" on you.

But the claim that has been made repeatedly is that Judaism goes back 5000 - 8000 years or more! My contention has been that the religion can only claim 2500 - 2600 years written and 2800 years as a religion that accepts Yhwh as the supreme God. Lamont is correct about the Chaldeans taking control of Ur long after Abraham and Moses (if either ever existed).

I am assuming it is a derogatory term for the bible - you know, Buy Bulls--t.

Amal, you know there is more than one way to "push Christ"! Your, BFG, etc's contant witnessing is the same thing and you know it. I don't know Lamont Cranston, but I'll lay you odds that is what he meant! Incidentally, it is offensive to most non-Christians. After all, you don't see me constantly witnessing on my belief in Deism, or the Moslem, Pagan, Buddihst or Jewish members of the forum harping on their belief systems!

It's Lamont's way of refering to the Bible - Bi-ble, Buy-Bull. Get it. Very witty isn't it . He loves that word.

Until next time,

I see, though I don't really understand why he has to denigrate the Bible. I admit that I don't really know very much about the history in the middle east,I seems to recall arcaheologist digging up some ruins they claim to be Jericho, I am not sure of its age. The kingdom of Abyssinia, nowaday called Ethopia had a thriving relationship with Judah, the historic record of Cyrus and Nebuchadnezzar implies that Judaism existed as a thriving culture 2,500yrs ago. this are all verifiable with other historical records, so I don't see claims going back 3,000yrs+ as too much.

No, thats bs and you know it. Please, give me a break.

The same thing is said when you push your beliefs (or talk about) on evolution. So please, don't point your finger at me when you should be pointing it at yourself as well (if you actually mean what you say here).

I just love a hypocrite.

And if you did I would respect that. But that doesn't mean that I would stand there and do nothing if you said you believed in these things, and bashed my religion (or questioned) mine.

I usually don't open my mouth unless someone says something that would indicate that my religion is wrong. In that case, I have every right to stand up for it and my beliefs.

You have no points here.

Show me where I have pushed "Evolution". Not being a biologists or a Geneticists, I seldom if ever mention evolution. At least there is evidence that it is a fact, quite unlike your mythology which has not evidence to present!


Give Me a break, your constant witnessing is the same as pushing your religion! It is very offensive to non-Christians.

Why yes you do, but when you offer only quotes from your mythology or read into it what is not actually there, you are doing your religion a diservice - Where is your evidence?

mako, they have no evidence. The only outside documentation is for a few events in the hebrew scriptures (tanach) and these, although few and far between, exist. There is not one single non n.t. record of a single event in the n.t. no record of the virgin birth, the slaughter of the innocents ordered by the dead herod, the preaching, the whining (take this cup from me, why have you abandoned me, boohoo, dad, are you listening? help me mmr wizard, i dont wanna be a messiah any more) no virgin birth (other than all the ones preceding his that his was copied from: mithras, krishna, etc.) no earthquake, no walking dead, no eclipse, no record that the veil of the temple was rent, nothing. and no-one saw him after the resurrection except for a few followers. no-one.

Wow, this argument is really going places. We say that we believe the Bible to be true. You say you believe it to be false, and ask us to prove its truth. We say we cannot do so, but we believe none-the-less that it is true. You then reaffirm your belief in its falsehood, and then ask us again to provide proof.

And skeptics accuse us of circular arguing



1 Corinthians tells us that he appeared to 500 people all at one time (I know, you don't believe our mythology).

Until next time,

first corinthians was a letter by paul. not one of the gospel writers says anyone other than 13 witnesses to the resurrection.

Show me where I have pushed "Christianity," since you made the claim.

No, you made the claim, you back it. Show me where I pushed my beliefs. Be a man, back your words.

Awww....I'm sorry, I didnt mean to hurt your feelings.

Keep in mind how many times you have bashed my beliefs, and then come back and re-think this statement you just made. I cannot believe how much of a hypocrite you are.

Its not my goal in life to provide "proof" that the bible is true. I have said countless times it cannot be proven.

I offer quotes from the bible? Well, should I start using a reference out of the TV Guide instead?

As I said, you don't believe our "mythology".

Just for curiousity sake - why make special mention of the thirteen witnesses in the gospels when you don't believe that account either?

Until next time,

See whats funny is that in "putting Christ pushers in there place" it becomes incredibly difficult to differentiate the fundamentalist christians from the "skeptics." Both use lousy logic, fallacies and fanaticism to push they're superiority.

hahahaha riiiight. If you mean Micro than sure if you mean Macro then you're wrong. What is funny though is that the people who call us fundiees and nuts seem to act worse than us "fundies." There really isn't any difference between a fundi and someone who belives macro evolution to be a fact and 100% true.

because it is so odd that there were not more witnesses to the resurrection.
and i discount paul because, well, to put it blountly, he never met jsus in person, and didn't follow his teachings until he fell off a horse, after which he took over.

You're right Paul never did meet jsus, but he did meet Jesus.

The book of Acts states that Paul (Saul at the time) did in fact meet Jesus on the road to Damascus (Acts 9).

The account we have throughout Acts is of the chracter Saul, who hates Christians, who persecutes them, who was there giving approval to Stephen's stoning for being Christian (Acts 7). Then suddenly after the Damascus road, Saul makes a major turnaround and joins the Christians he so vehemently pursued. Something must have happened.....

Until next time,

Actually what is described is a vision (it was not seen by his companions, they only heard the sound of it - doesn't say they heard what was said), it is conjectured that what Paul had was a seizure of some type. Visions, bright lights, sound resembling speech are all symptoms of such seizures. The sound his companions heard could very well have been low voculations made by Paul (also not unusual and something I can attest to - my wife has seizures of this sort) and misreported in a volumn text written 50 years after the fact. I have to agree with GM - Paul never met Jesus!

Fair enough. But whatever happened, we know that Paul suddenly went from being one of the biggest persecutors of the early church to being one of the biggest leaders of the early church. Call it what you will - I put it down to God though.

All the best,

And Mohammed went from a polytheist to the leader of what is now the fastest growning religion in the world, out stripping Christianity by 30% annually. I guess you can put that down to Allah?