Im not satisfied with the 9-11 investigation and neither are a lot of victims families...these families were never allowed to hear the voice cockpit recordings which were recovered...they were never allowed to see the DOT of Virginia CCTV recordings of what hit the Petagon...Senator Graham was never given a satisfactory answer by Ashcroft as to why the registration of two terrorists traced back to a Florida Navy base where foreign Nationals live and train. There are more legitamate points to make but I just want to be clear that just because some or most think 9-11 was an inside job doesn't mean they are unpatriotic...some of those people are survivors of that day.


Think about it like this...Kennedy had a plan and the Pentagon Chiefs had a plan for Cuba. Kennedy in the end was about to win a detante in the Cold War with Russia and avoid war in Cuba and bring Castro to the bargaining table...on the other hand you had the hawks who wanted to push the Cold War, maybe for business, and invade Cuba thus sparking a low level nuclear conflict with a possibility of escalation...we even have a most famous document exposing these hawks true intentions called Operation Northwoods which was a plan to fly airliners into a builing in a city and blame the terrorist act on Castro. Another convenient excuse...much like 9-11, especially since the Downing St Memo proves that an invasion of Iraq was pre-planned.

The people who died on 9-11 deserve the truth...not partisan rhetoric or freedom toast!

Hurr hurr. We're nothing but ants to the world leaders. I don't think you're in a position to demand anything from them.

Why would the government attack itself? Your theories lack motive.

If the government was behind the attack...then we are fighting who in Iraq? Ourselves?

Why is it so hard for you to grasp the thought that there are actually people in this world who hate you and want you to die and want America to die and want Great Britain to die? In order to believe your premise you must also believe that the government is behind the beheadings of people in Iraq. You must also believe that Sadaam is a nice guy and Bush is the real monster.

Did you ever consider that what the goverment and media has said about 9-11 WAS and IS the truth? Why do they need to have access to the cctv video? Can we see some documentation on the castro terror framing?

Raging paranoia, I have asked before how do some of you sleep with this many phobic thoughts running through your heads. certain people in this world hate us, this is a fact. Some of these folks hate us enough to preform barbaric acts upon us. Why is that so hard to understand?

Well we will just have to stop everything until you are satisfied with the 9-11 investigation. Take a breath your meds will kick in in a few minutes........

personally,i would like to see the government let these people see all the evidence,and all of the rest of us as well,of the in flight recordings,visual evidence,everything we could see without endangering some us agent abroad's life.i do'nt trust the government 100% on everything,but i just can't see so many other americans,and it would have taken a lot of soldiers in every branch of the service to carry out an operation like this,not talking before now.it's impossible for 5 people to keep a secret,much less 10,000.none of the theories make a bit of sense too me,especially we did it to make a few bucks off oil!!

I would like to have more information as well.

The shadow government could have instigated it to spur big business and industro-military spending and spending on new weaponds tech for decades to come, with public support.. But thats only a very dark possibility.

just what the hell does that mean in laymans terms please?

Umm - its pretty clear. There is no simplier was for me to say it. Most people with an IQhigher than 10 will understand.

how could somebody with a higher iq think that without serious,serious,paranoia problems there einstein?watch out,big brother is all arond you in the form of a shadow government.come on,your little piss poor insults ai'nt gonna get ya anywhere.

it isnt a secret and "many" people have come forward--cheney was able to fool all the good military men and women by claiming it was a drill!!--do your own research into operation tripod II --a "few" bucks off oil? the pipeline through afg has an est worth n the trillion"s" ,silverstein got 7 "b"illion,and all the defense departments are looting the 280 "b"illion that were stolen from the taxpayers--your sense of logic is flawed if you cannot percieve the treason taking place

never said i KNEW for sure it did'nt happen,i only stated that in my opinion it did'nt like you think it did.

Just think of the JFK incident - lots of people were "in the know" but they pulled it off , didn't they? Of course, lots of those witnesses are buried in Gramma's backyard, now. Deathbed confessions are about all we ever can get, if we're lucky enough to get one. But to believe the most ridiculous fairy tale ever invented, the Gov't 9/11 story defies common sense....

Plastic picnic knives? Mohammed Atta's pristine passport found near the towers? 19 "hijackers" identified within 48 hours? (at least 7 of which are regular, everyday citizens proven alive, but no mention made or corrections done?) Bin Laden in a cave in Afghanistan, like a James Bond villain, sinister mastermind who befuddled the world's foremost superpower?

If you can seriously believe all that crap spewed out by the Gov't, what WON'T you believe? I really do wonder that - what story could they tell that would sound any more ridiculous that you would buy into?. How about this - "It was a diabolical plot masterfully carried out by the Teletubbies!"

First off:

www.Prisonplanet.tv



The way I see it, The government did it for control over the country. If the country is under attack, Who will the general population turn to? The government. Thats exactly what they want.

The government is a neutral entity made up of many different factions to make this country function. Some of those factions within are eager to misuse the government, its agencies and/or its courts to produce a favourable outcome for themselves at the expense of the many. My gripe is n ot with our government but quite possibly an enemy within. THe people in the world that you say hate us...well many foreign nations are exploited for their cheap labor and many times a dictator is put in power because hes good for business. Its that kind of recklessness that earns us hatred.

BUT that brings up another point...looking back in history from Iran, Chile, Guatemala,Burma up to Cuba...all the gunrunning and coups and assassinations were done in secret between private corporations and our federal intelligence agencies and mercenaries...it was this back-door operation that led President Eisenhower to warn us of the " Military- Industrial Complex".

I see Bush and his father as representing that crowd. Bushs father helped the CIA hide its attrocities from congress in the 1970's so it is very easy to see what side of the street the Bushs are on.


Someone asked the question about Operation Northwoods and its authenticity...there are two places you can go to get it:

1. "Body of Secrets" by James Bamford, a well written and bibliographed book about the NSA

2. go to the George Washington University and look it up as I did...I recieved the whole 15 page FOIA document in a PDF file.

Once again, Op Northwoods is a plan signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff to attack one of our own cities using hijacked aircraft and blaming the terrorist act on Castro to bolster suppoert for a Cuban invasion.

Im not banging on a drum to draw attention to our government...Im doing it to draw attention to subversive forces within our government.

BTW Joc...I believe it was the Nazi's who brought the Baathists to power...what does that tell you of the Baath party?


I know we are speaking in oversimplified terms and theres a whole lot more to these issues but from what I saw happening in the 1970's I believe when it comes to the Military Industrial Complex we are dealing with a snake in the grass that is at many times on a divergent course from diplomacy, freedom, justice and equality. We are all patriots here but with different veiwpoints...I hope my reply helped define what my original post stated. Cheers all.

There sure are a lot of unanswered questions in the investigation of 9/11. There are anomolies, contradictions, missing pieces of evidence, and all manner of things to raise the suspicions of even one mildly skeptical.

Say it was an inside job. What I can't figure out is what the military-industrial complex accomplished with 9/11 that it could not have accomplished with less drastic means.

The American public tolerated the outright theft of the 2000 election. In fact, a huge percentage of the population doesn't even exercise the basic right to vote. They don't even know the basic who's who and what's what of politics and economics. Overall, the public seems pretty pliable.

The government hands the Pentagon a blank check every year since the end of WWII. The petroleum companies have all the access they could want to government favors. Industries are free to setup tax free offshore, make all their products with Third World labor, and dump their products on the American consumer.

I mean, the corporate kleptocracy was working swimmingly prior to 9/11, so what was the need for the corporate-government complex to sacrifice its darling World Trade Center, nail their other home, the Pentagon, and kill three thousand consumers?

Or maybe I'm just naive...

there were many involved and all had something to gain--the mic is the muscle but you also have the brains of the operation as well as the financiers--everybody with some thing to gain--the most obvious is the pipeline that the taliban objected to that has an estimated worth in the trillions with an "s"--next are the defense contractors(haliburton and the carlyle group for ex) who have been given 280 billion to plunder to date--larry silverstein,owner of the wtc complex(which he purchased and re-insured just two months prior to 9/11), recieved the largest insurance pay outs in history instantly catapulting him to the top of the worlds "overtly" richest men lists 7 billion to be exact--then there are those that gained things other than money--institutions and secular groups that gained things like "the patriot act"(a tool of abuse just waiting to be harnessed) ,sympathy for isrealis that have committed war crimes against muslims or arabs--the insider trading that took place prior to 9/11 has been traced to the executive director of the cia buzzy krongard and the list goes on and on--so its not necessarily just what the mic had to gain although when you break it down to the fundamantals the mic's only desire to kill people and break things and you cant deny that they have been given just that on a platter--a "real" terrorist would not have passed up the chance to nail "indian point" nuclear facility in ny yet its a known fact that one plane flew directly over the facility and the other was a stones throw away and easily could have targeted it just the same--molten pools of steel found beneath the towers 5wks after the collapse could not have been from jet fuel and office furniture and all you have to do is make yourself aware of the facts surrounding wtc 7 to know we've been duped

i'll say this,maybe we are al l just too scared to think anybody but religious
wacko muslim wackos did it.

Because not everything is a conspiracy.

something is considered a conspiracy when 3 people are involved is'nt it?

Look I beleive it was an inside job. If something blows up in NYC and an invasion of Iran or Syria comes up, I will feel "somewhat" vindicated. I used to think it was crackpot garbage too, but that's coming from gullible idiots who never back up their insults with proof. WE (who know it was an inside job) have our smoking guns- building 7 (hit by nothing- plane, jet fuel, squat) going down demolition fashion and Silverstrein saying he blew it up on PBS (the fool thought saying that was part of the plan. Too bad- we caught him on tape saying it now). Look at every single building engulfed by flames from hell around WTC- didn't fall down. Steel doesn't melt at that temp (2000 celcius melting point of steel, think!).

Government sponserd terrorism is more common then cheese in Wisconsin. I have your answer to the Cuban Missle crisis in this declassified document called project Northwoods. You must read it as a responsible citizen if you ever want to know what the government is capable of doing to it's own people.

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

9/11 was the pretext needed to implement a preexising agenda used to usher in the New World Order. I have personaly investigated 9/11 daily for about three years, and I promise you, it was an inside job. 9/11 was nothing personal, it was just business.

"Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist
dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
--Hermann Goering Commander-in-Chief of the Luftwaffe, President of the Reichstag

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
--Joseph Goebbels, German Minister of Propaganda, 1933-1945

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
--Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

"Once a government resorts to terror against its own population to get what it wants, it must keep using terror against its own population to get what it wants. A government that terrorizes its own people can never stop. If such a government ever lets the fear subside and rational thought return to the populace, that government is finished."
--Michael Rivero

"For the great majority of mankind are satisfied with appearances, as though they were realities, and are often more influenced by the things that seem than by those that are."
-Niccolo Machiavelli Italian Statesman and Political Philosopher

the bay of pigs was a huge cluster*uc* from the start.

What were those molten pools in the rubble?, the ones that didn't cool off for days and days?

When did PBS did broadcast Silverstein saying he was responsible for the fall of WT7?

Another thing...
Is the site 911inplanesite reputable, or has that footage been debunked?

Lets say I have a change of heart on this particular issue. The US had a lot to gain in waging a way in Iraq. The quest for oil is obviously the reason we went to war. The fact that price for low-octane gas in my area now costs $2.29 per gallon aside, the US had a lot to gain by blowing itself up. I have not seen the positive effects yet but I wait with bated breath. 16,500 people can't be wrong, can they?

it was actually weeks-
they were the result of using "thermite" a common demolition explosive used to shear large beams of steel as it produces temperatures at the 3000c range

silverstein,fdny dcision to pull wtc 7 an in depth analysis

the site points out some very unusual anomalies--although what they prove doesnt add up to much as it is wide open for speculation--there is too much material that is much more conclusive than material such as this --its not really a mater of the info being "debunked" as it is "inconclusive"--the evidence of demolition in the videos of the collaspes is more conclusive than "pods and flashes" and their potential uses

I don't quite see your point - are you waiting for gas prices to come down because of Iraqi oil? Who are the 16,500 people - the casualties from the war?

To distract attention from it's waving economey and to warrant further invasions in the middle-east in order to sustain this economey, perhaps?

there are a $hitload of inconsistencies in the governments report.read the 911
investigation,and you'll see.

Those are very good questions you bring up and what you say makes sense...but remember this same exact thing happened in WW2...it doesn't make sense that the World Banks and American Industrialists would build up Germanys war machine, make money and actively "launder" IGFarbens money all to the end of the war while the USA is fighting against the same entity. Those same families descendants are in power now here in America and elsewhere...especially Great Brittain.


Put simply...when the people of a government are economically empowered and have a say in thier own government then they are a threat to powerful people who want to stay in power and call the shots...the capitalists who funded the fascists were never tried or convicted so you could say that they were the big winners.

Its people like that with that much influence to make such a radical shift in policy and still emerge the victor. When Wall ST. shut down for three days after the attacks who did the FED give the billions of dollars to? Big corporations not the little Ma and Pa outfits that made this country. Our GDP was nipped at the bud.

I don't believe that any American individual could honestly be emotionally capable of orchastrating that level of death and destruction, against other Americans. Especialy when those accused have made it through the ranks and into government.

I may not agree with the war on Iraq but I feel that in honour of the memory of those people who died on September 11 we should move forward and not dig up unnecisary pain and torment for the families left behind.

So moving forward as in letting the real perpetrators go free? You don't seem to realize the depths these people will sink to in order to get what they want. History has proven time and time again that leaders will murder their own people to achieve their ends. This is no different.

Well you can think what you want you are certainly free to do so. But I reject the premise of your argument because I believe the truth should not be buried. Would you tell people not to publish the awful truth of the concentration camps of WW2 because you don't want to worry the survivors! Well it didn't happen that way historicly and its not happening now. Go bury your head in the sand!

Well if history has proven leaders will kill there own people then history has also proven jumping up and down and crying conspiracy isn't getting us any where. We only have so much energy to focus on goals, I prefer to use it in working toward the future rather than living in the past.
If you convert the thoughts and minds of the people on U.M. what would you have achived toward your goal of uncovering a conspiracy? Is there not a quicker and easier way to achieve what you are after, like voting? if the administration are that evil and that corrupt, then they didn't stop at the Sept 11 attacks, and there should be other more current less emotionally devastating evidence you can use to achieve your goal.

Problem with conspiracies and those who belive in them is they so believe or want to believe its true they blind themselves to anything that suggest otherwise.

Exactly!

I agree with that to some extent, but isn't it the same the other way round?
There are people who wouldn't believe that the government wouldn't
ever do anything as horrific as 9/11 and no matter what people tell them
they will still believe, even after all the evidence debunking the government's
official story (well some of it anyway).

I would like to know what you would have told me 60 years ago if I were to say..."I think the Germans are killing Jews in the ovens!"? You probably would have called the police on me for talking such "crazy" things. Thus I would have been placed in one of these camps and probably die there too. Just a hypothetical situation to show that your smug attitudes help bury the truth...in your hatred for those that ask questions...tough questions...you would let an attrocity happen right underneath your noses! How do you know? Because as much research as I have done I am sure of nothing so how can you be so sure? Because you saw it on the news?! LOL

"Tough Questions" now thats funny!

Ok here is my take and I dont expect to change anyones mind
I find it VERY unlikely a event like this could have taken place (I refer to cover up and plot) withuot someone spilling the beans! The NEW DEEP THROAT! It would take more people to pull off a hoax than the real event! I find the (cough) evidence to support an American plot lacking to say the least. I am not going to engage in a debate over this either I am stateing my view and if you support my view if not thats fine too. Somewhere along the line when it was suggested that we kill thousands of innocent Americans SOMEONE would scream and scream loud. furthermore "if" this theory was true why has not Geraldo Rivera or some other VERY liberal Bush hater jumped on this MY GOD this would be bigger than Watergate! No I am sorry I do not support the idea that Americans plotted 911 and pulled it off for politcal gain then framed Bin Laden and made him confess lol! The gain "if" this did happen would only last as long as that groups party stayed in Office so NO REAL gain! Again I dont expect to change anyones mind in favor or not I am merely stateing my view on topic and am not asking anyone to agree with it. BTW while your at (searching for boggeymen) find the following for me would you.

Bigfoot
Loch Ness Monster
Aliens
Nicole Simpson's killer (since it wasnt "cough" OJ)
Bonnie Lee blakely's killer
see a pattern yet? While your at it I have a bridge I can sell you cheap!


Germans are killing Jews in the ovens was NEVER denied Hitler boasted his hate of the Jew so that comment was silly at best!

Oh hold on - Bigfoot
Loch Ness Monster
Aliens
Nicole Simpson's killer (since it wasnt "cough" OJ)
Bonnie Lee blakely's killer
BIN LADEN

There we go - yes, I do see a pattern of boogymen!!
We did find Atta's pristine passport by the heap of debris though!!

The only reason crying conspiracy didn't work in the past, is because all channels of media were controled, and the revealing information of the conspiracy was able to be kept out of site out of mind of the public. People who knew about such things were very small in number and demonized so no one would listen to them. Now with the independent media and the internet people have been able to combine thier knowledge and communicate it to the people of the world. By spreading the knowledge we can become the majority. Right now the majority of the people are living in ignorance.

"Public sentiment is everything. With public sentiment nothing can fail. Without it nothing can succeed. He who molds opinion is greater than he who enacts laws."
--President Abraham Lincoln

"One cannot wage war under present conditions without the support of public opinion, which is tremendously molded by the press and other forms of propaganda."
--General Douglas MacArthur

Do you honestly have that much faith in America, that you think you can make a difference by voting. Did you ever investigate the staged election of 2004. There is no more important subject in the current world than 9/11. Everything that America is doing internally and externally is the direct result of 9/11. If you believe what the government says about 9/11, you are walking around hypnotized. I'm here to snap my fingers and wake you and everyone up. Ignorance is bliss but the truth will set you free.

What do you want me to do, go to ABC news so they can make it their big story? Get real.

"There is a chance for the President of the United States to use this (9-11) disaster to carry out ... a new world order."
Gary Hart, at a televised meeting organized by the CFR in Washington, D.C. Sept 14, 2001.

We are now witnessing the birth pains of the NEW WORLD ORDER - global government. It's been in planning for generations. That's where we are headed.

Now thats bizzare!

hmmm...why do I belive 9-11 wasnt an inside job?

#1: to much free time gives one bored conspiracy theorist the ability to make crack-pot theories

#2: I dont belive in this conspiracy because I know witnesses. and why is it so hard for people to grasp that there are terrorist organizations out there that want us all dead and will not bull**** anyone about attacking! Osama did it before and as long as he is still out there he will continue to plot!

Yikes! Booga, booga! Crackpot theory: Bin Laden, the evil super-mastermind plotting and scheming in a cave somewhere near you! Nobody can stop the wily fiend, certainly not the multi-billion dollar US Defence System. Ohhh Nooooo!!

[quote=turbonium,Jun 26 2005, 06:31 PM]

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Yikes! Booga, booga! Crackpot theory: Bin Laden, the evil super-mastermind plotting and scheming in a cave somewhere near you! Nobody can stop the wily fiend, certainly not the multi-billion dollar US Defence System. Ohhh Nooooo!!
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dude..did you take your meds today?

Ok young Padawan learner then what do you make of the connection between the Bushs and the Bin Ladens? Thier business together right up until 9-11, in the Carliyle group? Interesting how Bush1 was head of CIA and later Ben Laden worked for the CIA in Afghanistan...isn't it ironic? Almost too ironic. Hell, the CIA was even renamed after Bush...yet they cannot find thier old friend Osama even though he still goes to his familys weddings., Did you know up until 9-11 his brothers were living within 20 miles of the CIA? Ha ha ha ...just a random coincidence huh?! Please.

Osama's family hates him and disassociates themselves with him. They offer good money for oil,his family are not enemy. but rather are enemy to Osama.

thread re-opened.

Thank You!