new to the site and wanted to know what are your opinions about the so-calleed "war" thats going on and about the people of islam

I have absolutely no problems with Islam or Islamic people, I have friends who are muslims. But the war is totally wrong. Their was no justification to it, the 'WMD's were nowhere to be found and they had lied through their teeth about the motives.

I have absolutely nothing about Islam, or Muslims. I disagree with their beliefs, but that does not stop me having Muslim friends.

As for the war - i have no opinion. Whether it was about WMD's, or about pulling down Saddam, or about appropriating oil from the middle east, or any other theory we've come up with, we'll never really know. We can make assumptions, but that's all they are.

I personally find it laughable when people look at the press-releases, public statements, expert commentaries, news reports, magazine articles, radio broadcasts, internet websites, etc. and come to the conclusion that they "know the facts" and why things really happened. Let's face it - the average person is just not important enough to know all that happens in our politics. There is always information which the public does not have. What if the U.S government is working off information which for national security has not been made public?

We vote our political leaders into office with the hope that they will do what is best for our country. All the protests and rally's will not change my Prime Minister's mind about giving Bush aid in Iraq, so I must accept the state of affairs as they are and hope that John Howard is doing the right thing by our country.

Until next time,

I do have a friend that is Muslim and she is a beautiful person, whose religion is very strict and I've heard stories that have made tears stream down my face and my heart cry in shock at what its like to be Muslim, she is very grateful to be here in America and too wishes we had keaders capable of finding a peaceful solution to problems.

ya i feel ya,i read this one reply on a similar topic when these republicans were talkin bout the head chopping incident some of the stuff that they were talkin bout made you think what stuff does bush feed those ppl. they support the war and stuff,but bush and his government does so little to tell wuts rlly going on.there has been over a 100,000 iraqe casualties,and the iraqe's are the ones that are resisting... reply to this

i hope this is not religion bashing but i have heard nothing but trouble from islams.however the ones at my skool are fine.

This is probably because the media are hell bent on portraying them as terrorists, fanatics and all that. You will find that only a very, very small percentage of muslims are like this. The ones you hear about in Iraq are simply defending their homes and they still want Saddam as their dictator. I don't think that the insurgants have any (or very little) religious motives behind their defiance.

muslims are always being accused of being terrorists....

Yes and I find that incredibly unfair and innaccurate. If you are to believe everything the media tells you you would think that all terrorists are muslims and all muslims are terrorists. The only time that I can recall that a terrorist situation didn't have muslims involved was that school hostage situation. The media just doesn't seem to comment on non-muslim terrorist acts. At this rate they will create a lot of hatred towards islam (well more than it already has).

Muslims pray a lot. They in fact spend a great deal of time praying and worshiping Allah. But funny thing, I have never heard or seen any muslims helping other people. They all stick very close to each other and do not make an effort to even make eye contact with anyone that is not muslim. This is pre 911 experience I am typing about.
I dated an Iranian muslim that was kind of living on the fringes of her religion, behind her families back of course. She told me how strict and cruel they are to, not only each other, but especially outsiders. She had to marry a muslim or her family would disown her, which later she did.
The insurgents are not fighting for their religion, they are fighting to keep their society from becoming westernized. Or globalized now. They are a very strict male dominated society and the men there like it that way and the women must follow along or suffer much hardship or even death.

I see them as a earthly plague frankly.

IMO of course.

I only know one Muslim personally, and its so hard to deal with him. He has a huge ego (I mean massive) and occassionally I can get one with him, but other times all he does is go on about how better he is than us and that we should act more like they do in Tunsia.

Him aside however, I don't have many opinions on muslims, I don't know enough of them to have an opinion. And even if knew a lot I wouldn't generalize them all. Some muslims I've met at work are nice and polite, some are egotistical and openly hostile to anyone who isn't one of them. Just like any other group I've met.

As for the religion itself, well I have a pretty negative view of all Evangelical religions - and because I beleive in equality - Islam is no exception.

Long before the Sept 11 th. attack the New's media reported the teaching in the schools was limited. They read the Koran and were told that the Americans were the Devil. We now have one or two generations of people filled with Hate for anyone not of the "One True Religion". Most have not met or seen people outside their own regions, so take their childhood teachings as the Truth.

It's going to take a long time to change these opinions of us, and we must be there to do it. Not to chang them, but to show All Non Muslims in a new light. Not as Conquerors, but as Members of the Same Race sharing the same Planet.

God dose not condone killing unless attacked. When the Attack stops, the killing must stop. This is Gods Law in all religions including Islam.

Im married to a muslim and there is nothing wrong with him just because his religion happens to be islam, he not cruel to anyone, im not treated as lesser person than he is just because im a woman and i can do practically whatever i want, he supports me in every way.

the thing is, most of the beliefs you hear about from people living in islam countries are based on traditions not religion. i always hear about woman being mistreated or intolerance but it isnt such a long time ago that woman were considered less in western countries as well as for being abused, that happens everywhere dont just blame it on the muslims and their religion.

people say that they are backwards because of their religion, please, its not about the religion its culture and tradition, they might not have reached the same understanding as we have about equality. Im not saying that what they do is good, im very much against that kind of stuff.

and as for intolerance...please name me a country or a group of people that is totally tolerant towards all different religions, cultures and persons.

what im trying to say is dont blame it on their religion, its the people who interpret it in their own way and that is what creates intolerance and wars, people not religions.

and actually this tread might not be such a good idea, it will only create more intolerance and more separation amongst us all.

I don't think it will as the majority of people on here are educated enough to see that it isn't the religion that defines the person and won't judge people because of it. But there are always those ignorant few.......

I have no problems with them.

Any group of people in any religion can cause harm. All it takes is a few people from a certain religion to make it look entirely bad.

We don't often agree Amal, but I with you 100% on this one!

I have had about 7 'friends' or fiends from the Muslim category. from my school days to my current working days.

Everyone one of them has cheated me or backstabbed me in some wayor the other.

Yes they pray 5 times a day. they say their religion is the best as they have measures in islam to prevent their people from crime. for example if a man steals, then the hand which is used to steal should be cut off. now if that were really true, then the Muslims in Indian jails would lost one lim or another. and mind you, as per the current survey 76% of the inmates in indian jails are muslims.

check indian newspapers . every day murders and other crimes happen. when the culprits are caught , you will find muslim names.

they say they want world peace. but its all a lie because we have proof that they are taught that all other people other than muslims are infidels. and you know the best part ? these people only murder and steal from the non muslims. they will not do any crimes in their own community.

dont believe me ? read the indian news papers. on the day the world trade towers collapsed and thousands died, these people actually distributed sweets and their women were on the streets shouting praises to bin laden.

they talk of peace in front of you and behind you they plan how to kill you and back stab you.

do you know in the UK , they educate their young girls to make the non muslim men fall in love with them , and then get the men converted to islam. I have read all the religious books out there. non of they tell its followers to kill others. its not islam thats at fault. its islam's religious leaders that are promising the youg people that dying for allah wil take them straight to heaven. its these people that teach the youngsters that its not a crime to steal or kill the non muslims.

how do we know all this ? we found these documents on one of our muslim colleagues's workstation. he was thrown out of the complany as he was involved in criminal activities.

dont believe all this ? look deeper and you will find the truth.

why are muslims branded as terrorists ? because which other religion's people involve in such activities ? so that they reach allah by the shortcut !!!!

i say we kill em all! i'm joking of course! i have a few friends of this faith. though i do not believe what they do, that does not mean anything is wrong with them. as for the war, i think i agree with BFG on this, we don't know anything when it comes to politics, how many people trust the media as 100%? (should do a poll on that) but i think we need to see this war to the end.

I don't think this thread is a very good idea. It will lead to generalising all muslims under one face, which well not be very positive judging from existing posts.

The muslims I know are happy, funny people, although they are not in my group of friends, I can see this.

I agree, many people will just generalise the whole of islam. But I don't see why people are ignorant to think that a religion defines the person. If that is the case then Christians are some of the worst people ever, Crusades ring a bell?

I really don't know. I don't know how to feel about people of the muslim faith because of the things I've read in the Koran such as it's okay for you to take your wife into a different room and lightly beat her. How Mohammad had many wives and even married an eleven year old! There are just a lot of things in their religion that I find morally repulsive. Should the religion someone chooses to follow reflect who they are? I don't know. Why follow a religion if you don't believe the whole thing is true? You can't just accept some parts and deny others. Are they all terrorists? No, but their Koran says it's okay to kill people if they don't accept their religion.

The Koran says nothing about killing someone if they have a different religion, violence is only tolerated if it is in justice. The word Islam actually means peace. However I do agree that some of the teachings are wrong (like having many wives and being allowed to beat them).

I have no problems with Islamic people or their religion. It is definately strict. I wouldn't be able to do it. With all the rules and traditions. I once heard that on your wedding night the husband has to show that you bleed. To make sure your a virgin. I was so stunned. The woman who told me was muslim and from Iran.

Yeah, just like every other "Christianity is wrong" thread.

I have no problem with Muslims or Islam. I don't agree with their beliefs, but that's no reason to dislike them. It's just they are a little strict and tend to shun Westerners. Just as Westerners shun them.


They get a bad rap because of 9/11 and related incidents. You know what the media does these days.

There are some people here who have the strange notion the 2nd Gulf War is some kind of holy war or something.

OK I'm not going to demonize muslims but I find it ABSURD and OFFENSIVE on how they depict Jews. It's disgusting, a disgrace, an abomination. They should be ashamed of treating their cousins like they do in places like Saudi Arabia and Iran.

The Quran says Jesus and His Disciples are Muslims, that Abraham is Muslim (IS not WAS, as all live, Death was defeated.) Muslim means a “True Believer in God.” Moslem is a follower of Islam. The words do not have the same meanings.

A Moslem can be a Muslim. So can a Christian or a Jew. I do not believe every one who calls themselves a Moslem, a Christian, or a Jew is a TRUE Believer.

This earthly world has some big problems. A lot of them involve Islamic people and how they interpret or use what the Quran says. They might not have found any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, They did find a lot of Mass graves. A weapon of mass destruction only means it can cause a lot of deaths at once. Saddam himself could be considered a weapon of mass destruction.

Maybe the Weapons of mass destruction was just a excuse. BUT? Was it needed to be dealt with? There are a lot of other problems which need tending to. A lot involve Islamic people. A lot is getting Islamic people free of other Islamic people and an agenda they have.

Islam does not teach the Quran. The Quran says Allah gave the people the book (Jewish people the Jewish Holy Scriptures which is referred to as the old Testament) and gave the followers of Jesus the Gospel or New testament. That there are believers in both, and in the end, Allah will bring them all together. Is this taught? I don’t think so.

God blinded the Jewish Nation as a whole from seeing Jesus is the Messiah (till 2029 ad that is). Think it strange that Islam also can not see Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God.?

God may work in mysterious ways, But we ought to be able to see some of them. It should not be too hard to see that if the Jewish Nation had accepted Jesus, They would not have offered the Sacrifice God intended.

Islam has to fight against the Quran’s words to keep on going the direction most are headed. They can not see the Jews as believers, or the Christians as fellow believers. Or all three books as saying the same thing, and they do. A lot of people can see Jesus in the Old Testament, It testifies of Him. But so does the Quran. Hidden quite well, But it is there.

Ask a Moslem “If Allah sent all three books and they are true as the Quran shows, How many have you read?” Instead we want to tell them the Quran is just lies. Use the Quran to bring peace. It is possible. Use the Quran to show Christians and Jews are Muslims. True believers in God.

Allah is seen as God is seen speaking in similitudes. The best way to SLAY an infidel is to CONVERT THEM. God showed it in Scripture. “When the WICKED Perish, the Righteous increase.” Sounds like a death and resurrection which is referred to as “Born Again.” occurred.

Many on both sides will be killed as we try to bring peace. It will not be easy. But God also has His plans going.

Ken

Wow, what a good post Ken. It's wrong, but what a good post it was! Good job!

As a whole, I don't like it. It seems too violent and intolerant. No other religion produces the mass violence that you see in Islam today. Islam has a near-monopoly on the repugnant phenomenon of suicide bombing(the only other widespread use of this tactic that I'm aware of is among the Tamils.) No other religion has leaders and "holy men" who regularly endorse violence, both against non-Muslims and Muslim "heretics" alike.

The Koran itself is a pretty violent book - Muhammed was no man of peace. If he were alive today he would be regarded as a terrorist or a war criminal. Of course, the Old Testament is full of blood and guts too. There is violence in other religions; nobody denies that. Here in the US we had the Klan, they were a Christian-based group. Hindus have attacked Muslims in India. The Serbs tried to exterminate their Muslim population. But on the whole it seems to me that Muslims are more often then not the aggressors.

Individual Muslims I'll judge on a case-by-case basis. And if Muslims are being butchered like they were in Bosnia and Kosovo we should go in and put an end to it, if it is at all possible.

I think it's ironic that the klan tried to hide behind Christianity, but the whole religion is centered on a Jewish man.

Personally I don't have a problem with any Muslims. I think that the few Islamic sects that produce terrorist organizations are wrong, and that they need to be stopped. But the religion in general and most of the people who follow it seem to be good honest people.

As far as the quote above though.......your right, as of TODAY, at this point in time, no other religion produces as much mass violence as they do. But that's only today.....other religions have done the exact same thing over the years. If you take a look at history you see that Christians were even more violent toward other people who believed in other religions then ANYBODY else. We even killed our fellow christians because they worshiped slightly differently then we did. It was also mostly Christian nations involved in the 2 world wars.

As far as I know, the only one of the 3 big religions that hasn't really done any violent thing to anybody is the Jews.......but that was probably only because they never really had a nation of their own until Israel.

I think we just have to remember that their religion is younger than the Christian and Jewish religions that came before it. I think all the violence is more a less a phase and just built off aggression still left over from the crusades. I think after a while they'll mellow out a little more and be less violent.

Or maybe a muslim nation will get their hands on a few nukes and kill us all.....what they heck do I know? lol

(those last two lines were just a joke)

I dont like religions ruling countries. I think that the Muslim faith should be taken out of their countries diplomacy and politics. Just as it has been done in other countries.

I think if ppl want to be a muslim - fine. But laws and legislation should not be based on religious teachings. But on common decency and the basic - treat others as you would like to be treated.

And the punishments in muslim countries can be abhorant. Especially to women.

So yeah I have issues with Muslims! Mostly male muslims !!!!!

I really don't have a problem with Muslims or their faith; it is fundamentalism that that seems to put the curse on any religion. I agree with Rachael no government should be run by a religion. I heard a Muslim cleric say that the only law needed is the law of the Koran and Democracy is not needed. I don't think the problem here is the religion it is the cleric who wants to control the world, under his idea of how people should live: obviously a control freak. It is not the religion it is the nut balls that think their way is the only way.
Everyone should be allowed to follow their own Path. I don't think I would be allowed to practice my religion in a Muslim country. Sometimes it is hard to do it here. Fundamentalism is the problem not the religion or those who wish to follow it.

I have deep respect for Muslims and their beliefs. Very few of us in the west are truly aware of the scientific and artistic discoveries and creations of Muslim scholars and artists. I've been into learning a lot more about the Sufi sect and the writings of Jalaladin Rumi. I have limited resources, but have been doing some other research on the net.

TIME FOR ANOTHER HOLOCAUST!
Let's throw them all into the ovens!

Rebuild the Auschwitz and transport them all there.






























Im just joking! *cough cough*

I think Islam is okay. Quite an interesting religion as well. I've met only a few muslims and they're not that bad. Though they smelled weird . What comes to terrorist muslims and African backwater muslims I hate them. First off terrorists, your attacks give you nothing more than hate from the people you attack! And African muslims, stop circumsizing! It's surely painful and has no health benefits!

FANATICS ARE BAD!

Personally, I have nothing againt the Islamic people of the world but....
Anyone who claims they have received scripture directly from God or an angle of God, meaning it was just "handed to them", and instantly starts a new religion based on the given scripture, has got to be up to no good.
Oh dear! Not only have I pissed off a bunch of Muslins, but also a lot of Mormoms.

Excellent post, Ken.

I thought "Moslems" and "Muslims" were the same, but you learn something new everyday.

Personally i have no prob with anyone to each their own. However i dont like extremists expecially fundies for the simple reason they are pushy and disrespectful to other ppl. I have the best bumper sticker on my car it says Fundamentalists are proof that God has a sense of humor. I truely believe that God finds everyones religious fighting and such comical. Religious fighting reminds me of children going my GOD is Bigger than your GOD. My GOD CAN BEAT UP YOUR God na na na na. Silly ppl. If something works for one person thats fine why does it matter to anyone else if it isnt hurting or effecting them.

I do not have a problem with peaceful Muslims, just as I do not have a problem with peaceful Christians, but obviously I do with ones that support murder and terror and brainwashing.

What annoys me though is when these republican pro Bush people (that more than not are Christians) use the Islamic head chopping punishment as a way of demonizing Muslims, it sure is barbaric yes, but what is hypocritical is most of these republican Christians support electrocuting people to death as a punishment and also other barbaric forums of capital punishment. Is it me or do Bush supporters and ignorance go hand in hand? Some people are so hypocritical they cant even see it.

All the best
Faeden

there are two kinds of muslims
the ones that do the freaky stuff like cut their body so they can show sadness for the death of muhammads son

and the usual ones

muslims are not bad especially the ones in bosnia and kosovo and the european countries the saudi arabian ones r cool .i know a few of them ,lol the reason some of them smell like that is because of the hard smell of the food they eat.
and the guy that posted that thread with all the remarks (we all have our opinions)
every religion hates some one

I think it is highly, highly ironic that people do not like the Islamic religion because they say it is violent, and they themselves are christian.
That really cracks me up.

Care to elaborate?

Are Christians widely known as violent people? Do they run planes into buildings?

Do the go on three crusades to murder innocent people? Did the thirty years war have anything to do with Muslims? The same goes for hundreds of wars through the centuries. Now christians tend to be peaceful.

Still highly ironic that chrisitans criticise Islam for being violent.

I am somewhat puzzled as to why you have generalised all of Islam as extremists and violent people, when I did not generalise Christians. I simply said them calling Muslims violent was ironic.

I personally have no problems with any religion or belief system as long as its harming no one. Christian fundamentalists that blow up abortion clinics are just as evil as people who blow up buildings in the name of Allah. Its fanatical religion I have the most problems with, no matter the origin.

I totally agree. I just don't like hypocrites.

Well, lets do the math.....

When is the last time an Islamic person has done something violent towards a country?

When is the last time a Christian person has done something violent towards a country?



It just makes me sick how you can say this, when its clearly written on your countrys' wall......

God bless your country. Prayers to the families.

It makes me sick how someone, who I thought was intelligent, turns out to just be another blind christian.


If you can find no other means to back your argument apart from the time frame, then I do not wish to argue with you. In a hundred years radical christian groups may be doing the same, improbable obviously, it is just very nice and easy for you to push all of Christianities violent past under the carpet, to held aid your point of view.


I hate Islamic extremists who go to lengths to destroy innocent peoples lives. I despise those bastards.

What I hate, not as much though, is when people generalise all muslims under this terroist, or violent category, which although you have never said, you are implying quite openly, or not provding anything to the contray.

i have read through the forum and to be quite honest people with the "i dont like muslims because they are intolerant and terrorists" attitude quite simply makes me laugh and pitty you and your narrow minds. if your brain does'nt allow you to judge people as individuals as appose to stereotyping the majority for the evil carried out by the minority then thats your loss. i hate what the israelis are doing to the palestinians demolishing there houses, killing all the young men and raping the women etc etc but that does'nt make me hate jews or israelis infact it made me want to know more about the jews, and in finding out more about the jews i realised that there is (1) a real jew (2) a zionist. a real jew being someone who follows the torah and the teachings of god 100% then there is a zionist who would'nt even be classed as a jew by a real jew because they are not following the torah, in the torah it states that the jewish people will not have a homeland until the messiah returns but the zionists believe israel should be there land and they should do whatever they have to keep their land. a real jew will agree with the muslims that israel should not have been formed it should have been left as palestine. obviously its too late now and in no way am i trying to say that israel should be returned to the palestinians but the point i am trying to make is i could have taken the attitude that jews were evil but instead i wanted to educate myself and in doing so i realised that there are alot of similarities between muslims and real jews. and that is what i would ask you lot to do educate yourselves. in the same way in islam you get the peaceful realigious man and then you get the fanatics. but it seems the media is doing an excellent job of convincing all those people who get there knowledge from the likes of cnn that all muslims are terrorists. when the ira used to bomb england they were'nt called christian terrorist even though they thought what they were doing what was according to them religious. the first ever suicide bomber in the middle east was a zionist but when the word suicide bomber is mentioned straight away people automatically presume its a muslim. how would christian like it if they were all classed as kkk members? or crusaders? how would the zionists like it if they were reffered to as ethnic cleansers? which is what they are effectively doing in palestine.
i think the REAL terrorists are bush,blair and sharon aswell as osama bin ladin. the only difference is bush, blair and sharon are state sponsered terrorists who hide behind "the civilised world" argument to justify there acts of cruelty. if i had a gun and bin laden was stood in front of me i would shoot him and piss all over him. but one thing that gets me is he's a man with an organisation but bush and blair are world leaders and they have just as much blood on their hands as bin laden.
i have realised that in life you should never judge people, you get good and bad in every race, colour and religion and labeling a whole religion as evil is damn right ignorant.
i think the biggest problem in the world today is there is not enough religion whether it be islam, christian or any other religion. if everyone followed there religion properly the world would be a much better place. because i believe no religion is evil i believe people in religions are evil. and no religion teaches to harm anyone. so if we followed our faiths we would all live in harmony.
thank you

I agree with you up to a point, but sadly I think your argument damages itself when you call the real terroists Bush and Blair. This is not the right place to argue about that, so I will just say that I totally and completely disagree with you. I will add entirely as well.