'Declared a hero for saving numerous lives at Ground Zero, he was the janitor on duty the morning of 9/11 who heard and felt explosions rock the basement sub-levels of the north tower just seconds before the jetliner struck the top floors. He not only claims he felt explosions coming from below the first sub-level while working in the basement, he says the walls were cracking around him and he pulled a man to safety by the name of Felipe David, who was severely burned from the basement explosions.

All these events occurred only seconds before and during the jetliner strike above. And through it all, he now asks a simple question everybody should be asking? How could a jetliner hit 90 floors above and burn a man’s arms and face to a crisp in the basement below within seconds of impact?

... During the 9/11 hearings, NBC brought a crew out to my house and spent a day taping my story but they never did air a word of it," said Rodriguez. "Since then, some reporters and commentators have subtly warned me to keep quiet, told me my life could be in jeopardy and warned me that I really didn’t understand who I was dealing with.'
www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/28031.htm




PS- Not for those of you who are " truth sensitive".

bored conspiracy theorists crack me up!

Same here. These are the folks who like to cry "Humpty Dumpty was pushed" I know this because the janitor said so. So it must be true never mind the video, finger prints, DNA evidence and the eyewitnesses. I know Humpty Dumpty was pushed and the Government is behind it.

PadawanOsswe,

Conspiracies are the most common type of crime but the hardest to prove and least prosecuted. Conspiracy theories often defy an official or dominant understanding about current or historical events. The definition of a conspiracy is a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act (especially a political plot). A "conspiracy theory" is often presented by its skeptics as simply an allegation of unlikely secret action based on little or no solid evidence and unworthy of serious consideration. That ideology couldn't be more irresponsible and foolish.

The mass media seem to take it upon themselves as to decide what is news-worthy enough to get attention and repeated, and what is not. They are guilty of lying, by omitting important information thus forcing the reader to form an opinion with only half of the facts resulting in a false conclusion. Even small local news papers are guilty of this, simply by ignorance. A casual look trough any local newspaper with it’s similar stories from national and international media services should make you aware of a force controlling the so-called free press.

I’m talking specifically about what really happened on September 11, 2001. There is no more important issue than 9/11! Everything that has happened since September 11, 2001, has been a direct result what happened that day, and the idea that we were attacked by extremist Muslim terrorists. The world is now a different place. All the evidence shows that Bush and his administration were complicit in the attacks in order to push through a pre-existing agenda. If 9/11 was America's version of the German Reichstag fire (and evidence suggests it was), these questions need to be asked now, while we are still able to ask them. Many Americans remain unaware of the questions surrounding the attacks because of the failure of Congress and the administration to do a real independent investigation and the mainstream media to inform them. One of the biggest crimes in history has yet to be solved with any evidence presented that hasn’t been proven false. The complete lack of any independent non-partisan investigation means that it now falls upon journalists and individuals to investigate the questions surrounding the attacks. A free press is key to a democracy, but it must be willing to ask the difficult questions. An in-depth analysis can be more challenging and expensive to produce, especially when it questions prevailing values and corporate interests. It’s much simpler to regurgitate material supplied by public relations firms and corporate spin-doctors at the associated press. Often critical coverage is censored by big media owners or stifled by (associated press) journalists themselves in fear of their own jobs.


"The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists."
--J. Edgar Hoover

I would also add that the real conspiracy "theory" is the "official" story of 9/11. It meets all the criteria of a "theory", and then some! The "evidence" for their case is flawed and weak at every point of the story. The only linchpin evidence of Bin Laden being behind it all was a video confession proven to be acted out by an impostor "Bin Laden". That is IT!!

The 19 hijackers listed are false, at least 7 of the 19 names are people who are alive and well today, and are every day citizens. The official passenger lists from all four flights do not have any names listed for any of the 19 "hijackers" or any alias by which the FBI could identify the 19 names within 48 hours of the event! All names listed matched up to the passengers who were supposed to be on the flights.

The actual evidence that could have been investigated has been either destroyed or confiscated and hidden from the public. Destroyed steel and all rubble from WTC 1, 2 and 7, confiscated videos of the WTC 7 crash. Suppressed from the public are all communications from the planes to air traffic control, as are the black boxes. News reports the day of 9/11 and a day or two later has been censored from archives if it shows anything which contradicts the official story. Eyewitnesses who testified before the 9/11 Commission had their statements omitted from the report if if contradicted the official story. On and on and on. The cover-up is of enormous proportions.

I don't understand why some people think its impossible for a gov. to be part of a conspiracy? I'm not attackin anyone in particular just people who just simply put down the very idea that their gov. isn't telling them the whole truth. Wasn't Julius Casaer's murder a conspiracy? I could be wrong here, but i'm pretty sure it is. Is it really that hard to believe that if a conspiracy could be pulled off back then during the roman times, couldn't they do it now?

I still don't know where I am with the whole 9/11 conspiracy thing, but at least i'm willing to listening to other peoples opinions and then base my own. The more opinions i read abt the more knowledge i have to make my own opinion. Ya get me:?

I have always been of the opinion that they only way three people can keep a secret is if two of them are dead....that being said if 9/11 was some huge conspiracy how are sooooo many people being kept quite? For fear of death? All they would have to do is come out and say that then their safety is basically assured since if something happened to them it would give more credibility to the original claim. But we aren't talking about a few people or even a dozen it would have to be hundred of people. Those who planned the attacks, those who were there the people on the planes who called home, or at least the families they spoke to, as well as everyone after the fact who is making sure it is kept a secret, how is that possible?.....just my opinion

Well if we go by the JFK conspiracy, a LOT of people have died over that. Many more are absolutely still alive but silent about it. People can be compromised in many ways to keep quiet. These things take YEARS to plan, that's why you don't see them very often - WACO, Ruby Ridge, Oklahoma City, 1993 WTC bombing, 9/11.- the bigger they are, the more planning involved, and people in key positions have to be in on it. But the truth does eventually come out. The JFK re-investigation for one. They found more than one shooter was involved. Of course, they didn't investigate past that, but it's a start.

there are a lot off early and strange deaths connected to the jfk murder,but in regards to 911 there would have to be thousands of people involved in it,and
most of those are soldiers who would have a hard time living with it,and keeping quiet no matter what.i'm not saying that every thing concerning 911 is a straight
cut,it's very jagged,i just do'nt see hoe,especially in todays age,how the government could keep this a secret.who knows how many civilains monitor government frequencies like the faa,the fbi,and even the us military.surely they would have recorded or tried to pass this on.i'm not saying it went like uncle sam said it did,and because they did a crappy job the door accussing the us government is gonna always be open!if they truly do'nt have anything to hide,
let them release everything associated with 911,and let the public decide for themselves.

like I said people you have just a conspiracy theory. I know witnesses and they know what they saw.

That janitor said that? Oh, well that settles it. It must be true then.

As long as the people running the show are in on it, then any kind of coup can occur, and history HAS proven this as a fact. The military is the perfect group to achive this because it is the most pyramidal structured, compartmentalized system there is. It is ALL based on a "need to know". The top politicians and military brass can carry out an operation like 9/11 with FAR fewer people than you think. It is like the Freemason/Illuminati pyramid structure - only the people at the VERY TOP know the WHOLE story of what is going on - because they are the ones conducting the event.

For example, the operations needing to be controlled are the Air Defences (NORAD), the FAA (Communications & Tracking - linked to Air Command), and Airport Management.

There are red flags all over the place. Logan Airport security was managed by a Zionist company, ICTS. Marvin Bush was director of a security firm (subsidiary of ICTS) in charge of the WTC, Dulles Airport and United Airlines on 9/11!! Hmm...just a coincidence?

NORAD and FAA procedures were changed by Rumsfeld a few months prior to 9/11. They were VERY important changes regarding the chain of command and responsibilty. They consolidated the top down structure so that Rummy would be in charge of civilian based command of military operations. These changes were ALSO a coincidence? Well, it only affected the entire structure of civil & military defense over American skies!!

These things were put in place not much before 9/11 so that the command structures would be consolidated into a streamlined, small number in charge and "calling the shots" for the 9/11 coup d'etat.

Let's see if I can drive home the point about how many people would need to be "in the know" about a conspiracy. Say you are a fighter pilot based at Andrews Air Force Base on the morning of 9/11. You are on full standby for orders to intercept enemy aircraft. But on 9/11 you either get no order at all, or else an order to engage in war games sorties in a simulated attack on, let's say, Washington, DC. That is ALL you know - what your commanding officers have ordered you to do. But your CO gets his orders from the higher-ups at the Pentagon. The brass at the Pentagon get their orders from the Secretary of Defense, Rumsfeld.

Now, how many people know what is REALLY going on? In this example - ONE!! This may not be exactly how it DID happen, but it shows how few people really need to be aware of what is going on in one area of authority.

The highest authorities in each department critical to pulling off 9/11? Not in the hundreds, even, for sure not near that. As the singular authority(ies) of each department, they delegate critical posts to those who will carry out whatever instructions are given to them. That is the ultimate danger with pyramidal authority structures. The second-down delegates may know that they are doing something that violates one procedure within the SOP's,
but they do not know, or need to know, the reason for the deviation in the procedure.
And they do not need to know, or likely ARE NOT AWARE, of the full implications of what they are partaking in. The Big Picture - As Few As One Person May Know It All!

You've never worked in the federal government, have you? Policy changes happen all the time, especially when there's an incoming administration. You're just cherry-picking one particular policy in a vain attempt to prop up your ridiculous theories.

"They consolidated the top down structure so that Rummy would be in charge of civilian based command of military operations." That sentence makes no sense; Rumsefeld by virtue of being the Secretary is the highest civilian in the DOD. You really have no idea what you're talking about.



Oh, I see, so it's those damn Jews behind everything. Now I see exactly where you're coming from.

.


I couldn't have said it better, if I'd tried. BINGO............. Thanks PadawanOsswe!!

Wouldn't it be something if turbonium could direct all this misguided energy, into something usefull?

i have a friend who is working with city bank in my country. The bank is closed on that 9/11 day because it is said that city bank in US is closed

No need to cherry pick - it's a very relevant change that just so happened to help minimize people in the reporting protocol. It's a FACT so don't try and brush it off as a "happens all the time" excuse. It was changed - that's all that matters.
Didn't you even read the SOP's? That is EXACTLY what was done - it was changed so that ALL approvals were through Rumsfeld!!
From this link..Change in Procedure

In the June 2002 issue of Aviation Now, it was finally disclosed that the longstanding procedure was not in place on 9/11! It had been superseded by an instruction from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff issued on June 1, 2001. The new procedure called for the FAA administrator (at that time Jane Garvey), not air traffic control, to contact NORAD and request military assistance. NORAD then was to determine what resources (jets) were available and then contact the National Military Command Center (NMCC) which in turn would get the personal approval of the Secretary of Defense (Donald Rumsfeld) for authority to scramble the jets.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Zionists are not Jews anymore than African tribesmen are Jews. Zionism is not a race, it is a policy created by the Ashkenazi "Jews" to promote the idea of creating "Israel" for them (not for the Sephardic true bloodline Jewish people). The Ashkenazis are Khazars from eastern Europe, who "adapted" to being "Jewish" about 1200 years ago. The only true Jewish race of peoples are the Sephardic Jews, who follow the writings of the Torah. Keep your garbage insinuations and accusations to yourself, bud.

Yes, sheer brilliance - I can't dispute that mountain of solid evidence!

What do you suggest nancy - Sheep really aren't too energetic, are they?

Paddowan, I consider Nancy a personal friend and a lovely lady to boot. Please remember, it is possible to argue pleasantly.

The real conspiracy was the installation of the Taliban and the backward terrorists associated with them in Afghanistan. That was a well planned scheme involving the US and some of her primitive middle eastern allies to bug Iran, their common enemy. They followed the old rule that my enemy's enemy is my friend; a rule that was obviously not applicabale in this case. What the US misread in the deal was that eventhough these thugs might be Iran's and the Shiits' enemies, they are also anti-western and particularly anti-American in nature (The US was actually misled by her own supposed allies). The short-sighted American policy makers were so concerned about 'containing' Iran that the terrorists' anti-Iran, anti-shiit stance was like music to their ears, especially when there was even a promise of American companies building a certain oil pipeline through Afghanistan that by-passed Iran. This made the Americans overlook the real dangers of supporting such primitives! The reason we don't know the whole truth about 9/11 is that it's extremely hard for the American government to admit and explain to its own people the big mistake of allying themselves with those backward thugs, especially that several adminstrations (both republican and democrat) followed the same blind policy, a policy that proved to be costly and one that failed miserably to achieve the objectives it was originally designed for.

how much support dd the taliban recieve from the clinton administration? i don't think the US ever recognized the Taliban as the afghani government on any official level?

Sorry to burst your little bubble, but that's not exactly a monumental policy shift. You would know this if you actually had any familiarity with the way government agencies work, or if you just used common sense and critical thinking skills. You're excused on all counts.

Oh, and by the way: it didn't matter that Rumsfeld had to personally approve the dispatch of fighter aircraft. In fact, it didn't matter what procedure was in place at all.

From the 9-11 commission:





So basically, your attempt to prove the Donald Rumsfeld himself interferred with the miltiary response to 9-11 is a flop.

Thank you, come again!

(But yeah, you got me on Zionism, Turbonium. I guess I'm just not as obsessed with "Zionists" as you are. Although frankly, I suspect that when you say "Zionist" it's synonymous with "Jew" for you. It's just a theory I've got.)

Now you're using the 9/11 Commission Report as your fact source? Please spare me - I have a "Magic 8-Ball" toy that's more accurate than the 9/11 whitewash report. It makes the Warren Commission look like the pillar of truth and accuracy!

And how is it I equate Zionist with Jew (in your "theory":lol: ) when I'm the one who had to tell you what the difference was in the first place? It seems to be YOU are the one who equates them as the same thing - look at this link for some enlightenment..Jews Against Zionism

Okay, so tell me what part of the commission's report that I quoted was wrong, and cite your source. Air traffic controllers, pilots, whatever.

I suppose that being referred to as a "sheep" is better than being referred as a Cow.......... Not that it matters.

turbonium,
This is "our" actual first fisticuffs and it is very difficult to "discuss" in a rational demeanor with someone who does not approach any topic with an open mind.

All your research, all the "solid evidence" must have taken quite a bit of time and perseverance.

I have a question, please? Why don't you compile what you've found, references to your documentation, comparisons with "the truth" and your opinion of what really generated September 11, 2001 and contact the Powers That Be, in Washington, DC.

Simply request that this information be seriously considered and studied. Ah, I hear you say, "Trust DC?" .......... Is that even close?

Or? Contact the Press in all media. I'm sure you will get their attention.

However, if you know 1000% that your data is correct, the world needs to know, not just those of us who wander into "UM."

By the way? Your Profile does not provide any information about yourself. Years ago, I posted a Topic regarding this and the fact it makes it difficult to understand an individual who does not feel open enough to advise their gender, location, etc.

I am VERY proud to be born and raised in The USA, and have nothing to hide.
Nancy

*KISMIT* as usual? Your kind words, sanity and levelheadedness are a breath of long needed fresh air. Thank You Nice Woman xoxox

Basicly true...there was trouble between Unocal and the Taliban in 1997 over the pipeline. There does seem to have been some kind of pay-off to the Taliban in the summer of 2001 by Colin Powell...maybe this was a desparate attempt to get the pipeline in and save Enron? Maybe this is why Dick Cheney can't share his energy policy minutes on grounds of National Security? What do you think?

Well, nancy, first let me say I have never seen you post in this section until now. And the first thing I notice you contribute is an unprovoked slight towards my posts. First of all, you have the opinion that my efforts are "misguided" and not useful. Frankly, you're judgement of the value and direction of my information has a somewhat condescending tone, and is also very incorrect.. My posts have been argued against and agreed with. Then there are others who were not aware at all of the information, which is not surprising considering my sources are often alternative news sites, that many people don't follow. These people then become aware of something they would not have been if not for these posts - and they have often mentioned that they appreciate that I posted the info.

You also make the sweeping generalization of me as "irrational" and one who does not approach any topic with an open mind. Well, those are quite the "labels" you have put on me!! But, if you look at my posts anywhere in this forum, you might find slightly MORE irrational and closed minds arguing opposite to my opinions!! They are very easy to find - one post of mine will have a presentation of the topic with relevant links and sources quoted. The next opposing post will contain maybe one sentence, usually something like "That's just bull - no way that happened!" or "You're paranoid - my dad said that he knows a guy who saw everything, and it wasn't like that."

To say what I post is not useful and misguided, must mean that nothing positive comes from the information and subsequent discussion of same. You obviously don't see it, but I know that sharing and talking about subjects like this is VERY useful. Are you actually suggesting that sharing this information with the people on this forum is not useful? Is it misguided that the everyday John and Jane Q. Public has access to a discussion on a topic that might even be useful to their every day lives? Is raising the awareness of the world around us a useless endeavor?

Cow? Don't know what you're saying here - cows don't do much more than sheep - they also just mindlessly follow along with their group.

Now - contacting Gov't and media - another assumption you have made, for whatever reason, out of the blue, and another which is also incorrect. I have a very long list of those in both groups I have emailed. From Congressmen to Senators to Editors and Columnists of newspapers and called in to many radio talk shows about this information. I have signed several petitions that have been sent to "The Powers That Be" that have requested, pleaded and demanded that 9/11 be re-opened for an investigation that is completely independent and entirely open to public viewing, input and complaints. I'm nearly batting a thousand on lack of response. Except for enthusiastic contacts I have in the alternative media, who aren't owned by corporate interests. Others just plead ignorance (and guess what, with some of them , I believe it!). Automated replies, I have received by the dozens. They don't even acknowledge the topic in question!! Even the petitions have been ignored to date. Some of these number in the thousands of people. So don't think I haven't been trying. Despite this, I am still plugging away at it - some day maybe a letter to the editor will sneak past the watchdogs and be put in the LA, NY, Seattle Times, who knows - it's all controlled., but they are only human, so they might screw up! Or a kindred spirit will slip something in. And I still get in on the radio talk shows - as long as I'm not overly specific on what I'll be discussing to the screeners!! When I get on, I usually have about 20-30 seconds before they reply with something vague, change the subject, then go to a commercial as they silently cut me off!! (Hello? Hello? )

What forum members do or do not choose to disclose about themselves is entirely their own decision, as it should be. And you should respect that without making any assumptions about the reasons for doing so. You are implying that those members who limit the personal information they display to the public are "hiding something". Sweeping generalizations like this are not only incorrect, but show a lack of respect for others by questioning the choices they alone have the right to make.

Those here who I know to a level of friendship know more about me than others through PM's between us. These people have earned my respect and trust to the point where if they want to know something about me, they need just ask me, and I will tell them. I dont "fear" divulging certain personal information. And besides which, how does posting where you live and your favorite author show that you aren't hiding anything? For all I know you could be a 6'5" man living in Papua New Guinea!! And guess what? I don't care!! The point is to come here, have fun, share a joke, maybe learn something you didn't know yesterday, and then maybe go out and play frisbee with your dog in the park, or visit your friends, or whatever...

Well whether one is for or against...we should argue the substance of what is presented. It is amazing to see how many people totally miss the point about information sharing.

Good point - if someone has some info counter to my argument, I won't just say "You're wrong" without having something to support my claim. That's what is frustrating about this - only a few people here argue against 9/11 with valid arguments - aquatus1, bathory, a few others - that are backed up with sources or else valid counter-questions. I respect that, and is great for refining the discussion into provable points.

I remember posting something a while back about some seismic evidence picking up tremors when the plane hit and when the buildings hit the ground...and mysteriously a third tremor but from what?

The topic here about the janitor being in the basement and experiencing explosions is very interesting as it could be related to what the Columbia University seismograph picked up. To add to this...there were molten pools of steel found several stories under rubble after the site was cleared...I think it takes about 2600 degrees Fahrenheit to melt that steel. To accept that ther were demolitions involved you have to accept that 9-11 was a set-up.

It would be easier for people to say..."Hes just a janitor and him and the person he saved could be lying" than to accept the plain as day anomaly as a definable conspiracy.
Remember that NBC did a show about him but never aired it...why not? Sounds like a typical hero story...right?

The funny thing is ,there was a girl here on UM who was there that day and posted that there were people...either news or emergency personel there at the WTC who did hear the explosions underground. Those explosions weren't from some electric transformer and even if there were propane tanks down there it would not have been hot enough or a big enough explosion to take out around 40 steel columns that mounted the WTC to the ground. Sounds more like demolitions.

You know witnesses who saw that it wasn't an inside job? Tell your story of your witness, and what they know. Then I will tell you about the NY firefighters, WTC employees, etc who witnessed everything, and the say official story is a complete lie. Under orders of national security, they are not allowed to go public with their story. Even if they did, the news would not get past the editor.

Seriously, I would like to hear what your witness witnessed, that would make you believe what you do.


I listened to an interview with Alex Jones, and the janitor tell his story. He said how he would go on network news, and at first he was a hero for rescuing people from the building. He would talk about the bombs going off in the basement, and rescuing people who were burned as a result. The media would simply edit out the part about the bombs. And that goes across the board through out the American media. He can tell his story freely in any other country except the US, where the illusion is essential to the survival of the American empire.

Yeah Padawan...share your stories with us so we can compare notes. We have been quoting witnesses too. So I ask, do the explosionsthat were heard underground conflict with your friends testimony? Can your witness friends explain why a war in Iraq and the Patriot act were already on the table pre-9/11? What did your friends see and hear...are we not worthy?

some friends of my fathers saw the Pentagon Crash from good view. they saw it decend,crash,and burn

Can you give anymore details about what they actually saw? You see, there was this footage taken from a gaurd booth at the Pentagon that showed something that looked more like a big cruise missle than a jumbo jet.

Bear with me Padawan...also, the hole was remarkably shaped like that of a cruise missle. Before the Pentagons outer wall actually collapsed, there was just a somewhat perfect small hole and as thick as the Pentagon is, penetrated to the courtyard.

There was just not enough evidence at the crash site to indicate that a boeing 757 had been the culprit.

I'm just curious as to the details of your fathers friends story...how far away were they...could they have made out the difference between a Boeing 757 and a large cruise missle or a UAV(unmanned Aerial Vehicle). These are important questions because there are a lot of people who saw things that day...but the only ones getting airtime are those that all agree with the governments "official" story. I shouldn't say government...I should say the Whitehouse...there are good people in our government. Anyway, get the details and get back with us. Im not trying to rip your evidence apart or anything I just want to compare notes for the sake of enlightenment. Thanks Padawan.

I owe you an apology, Turbonium. I've heard the word "Zionist" used by Aryan-Nation types as a synonym for "Jew" so often that I jumped to the conclusion that you were one of them.

Good link showing damage to the Pentagon.
http://anderson.ath.cx:8000/911/pen06.html

no it didn't

also, the damage sustained to the pentagon and surrounding area is completely inconsistant with that of a cruise missile

It streaked by so fast it looked small. You could be right about it not being a cruise missle...but if it was a boeing 757 then why didn't they ever find a 2nd engine? Could it have been a single engine remote control?

Apology accepted - thanks for stepping up like that.
I know it's becoming a touchy word so I should maybe take the time to define what I mean so people don't take it for that race hate crap.

On the topic again - I listened to the interview with Jones and the janitor. He certainly sounds genuine, and for sure has nothing to gain by telling his story. He sounds liek a man of morals and character who wants to make sure everyone knows what really happened in the lower levels of the towers. Certainly he's not making this all up. He was one of only four people who had compete access to the towers, so he provides a very unique insight into the 9/11 story.

He, along with the firefighters tapes, are just two of the more recent smoking guns that add even more credibility to the "controlled demolition" of the buildings on 9/11. The official Gov't account is so weak in comparison that even a halfway decent independent investigation would smash it into a million pieces.

because it got smashed into pieces?




it could also have been a UFO from the Crab Nebula...
i think there is too much evidence to kinda point towards the 757 having hit the building

Bottom line is there were alot of anomalies that day and a lot of evidence is still forthcoming. From the part-time Air Traffic Controllers on duty that day all the way up to the militarys mock 9-11 exercise that was happening the same day...thats why Norad said they weren't sure how to respond because they knew about the exercise. Maybe a jumbo-jet did hit maybe it didn't it really doesn't make or break the case of a conspiracy...but Im inclined to think it was because of the evidence with held like the DOT in Virginias cct.v.'s on the road...they were taken by the FBI...why? Was ther something about the plane that didn't match their story?

Nothing to gain? He is a low paid employee gee what gain could come from this? Janitors are not the sharpest tack in the box and his statement lack credibility. He could not have the knowledge needed to make such judgments

Damn thats pretty low dude...your mocking his job title and basically saying anyone under a certain paygrade can't be trusted...that janitor could be a better man than all of us how the hell do we know? He saved another persons life...its all on the tape made of him by NBC news.

I believe people like you cant accept what hes saying because you know what it implies don't you? Easier to degrade someone of a lower paygrade...even though he saved someones life in an explosion.

What a slag against a man who saved people's lives on 9/11! That really is despicable, how would you feel if it was a member of your family he had saved? He would have much more to gain if he hadn't spoken out about the truth of what happened - he would have been Bush's poster boy for re-election, written a bs book about his heroics and raked in the dough.

But no, he's just a "dumb janitor" and a liar to boot - even though you have zip to back up that crappy claim - whistle-blowers aren't exactly known for getting rich - look at the FBI agents who did the same. They become pariahs within their own group.

And why do you think he doesn't have the knowlede to judge what happened? He would need to be a demolitions expert to hear and see and feel explosions going off? I guess all the combat vets of the last century that saw fellow soldiers blow up can't really be taken on their word that exploding shells killed them. After all, they didn't have any Ph.d's in explosive devices, did they?

I hate this can't it wait untill we get our men and women home; and i hate to ruin this but if Bush wanted to invade Irqa we could have done it on humanitarian reasons, we did not have to kill our people! and i doubt Bush has been blowing up things around the world for the last ten years or so think about,

First, we can't wait, because the whole plan is for "perpetual war on terrorism". The sooner people know who was behind 9/11, the sooner the soldiers WILL come home.

Bush would not have had the American people behind him enough to be motivated into attacking Afghanistan and then Iraq. He needed a boogeyman that would slaughter thousands of Americans on US soil to enrage the public into war - just as Pearl Harbor did. The first Gulf War was started through US ambassador Glaspie tricking Saddam into thinking the US "doesn't interfere with foreign policies". US Gov't propaganda also went into overdrive with the lie about Saddam and his evil troops murdering thousands of "incubator babies" in the hospital. With Americans blindly enraged, Bush Sr. then cashed in on the deception and sent troops in after the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

Bush Jr. had nothing to motivate the people to fight without first Bin Laden in Afghanistan, then the lie about Saddam's WMD's to invade Iraq. Then it became ok because Saddam was a ruthless dictator needing removal because he was a future threat. If the original premise for war with Iraq was nothing more than "Saddam is a bad man", the US people would not be so responsive to risking their lives for a non-existent threat.

All these wars are based on huge lies, carefully crafted by the Power Elite, and then spread throughout the world like a virus by their lapdog monopoly media whores

The posts I have made in this section are more than likely in the "archives"... I posted extensively on the subject of the WTC..

I do feel that your attitude is full of zeal, yet your responses appear to be defensive, from the start. In other words? If someone does not agree, you appear to force your opinion on those who disagree.

Your information is extensive and I simply do not feel your results point any answers in my direction. As a result? I feel your reseach/documentation abilities are exceptional, but cannot understand why this entire subject of 9/11/01 could be a conspiracy. Nothing I've read by you, even begins to make me rethink what happened. What bothers me is those who are just becoming aware of your information. To me, it is not "useful" since I feel it is inaccurate.



See paragraph above. To me, you don't have an open mind about this topic and that results in your determined efforts to downplay anyone elses opinions. I don't consider you paranoid and those whom you've quoted above, do not add quality content. For once? We agree.



Yes! Sharing information with those here on "UM" is very useful, IF the information is not completely one-sided. Raising awareness is vital! Forcing this down the throats of those who read it, to me is not the way to "go."



You originally referenced me as a Sheep. I didn't appreciate that, believe me. I do not "mindlessly follow" ....... I am in NO "group"!



Please note: I made a suggestion re contacting media, etc. ....... It was not an assumption that you never had done so, in the past. I am also not one bit surprised that your attempts appear to have been futile, meaning so far, you have not made any progress with said information.




Again, we agree. Forum Members have the opportunity to reveal or not. My point was this. Since your gender is unknown to me, I cannot address you properly or quote you in future posts by referring to "he said" or... "she said."
As for Country of Origin or Residence. To me, knowing where someone lives (NO specifics re town, street address, etc.) is helpful to understand the perspective of the individual posting. Most of the world considers the USA on the bottom of the list. One's opinions, especially on conspiracy posts, are, at times, influenced by where they live, their media and culture.



You've answered my question perfectly! "Those here who I know" ... and those who don't know you? What about them? Rational debate/discussion is often communicated without personal knowledge..... ie: Your opinion of me.

Yes, people can post false information. Believe me, "management" puts up with quite a bit of this, making their job difficult, I'm sure! For someone to go to the lengths as you have with your posts...... I would hope that those of us reading your data, do consider you upfront!

End of speech, especially since 99% of these communications between us are off topic and taking up wayyyyyyy too much space.

Nancy, I understand why it's so hard to believe what we are saying. I didn't believe it until I finally saw it with my own eyes. The best way to be introduced to this is to see it with your own eyes first.

You need to watch these documentaries:

MARTIAL LAW 911: RISE OF THE POLICE STATE. Watch the trailer and then buy the film.

http://www.martiallaw911.info/

9/11: THE ROAD TO TYRANNY

http://www.infowars.com/tyranny.htm

The best way to believe anything is to see it with your own eyes. See what has been deliberetly suppressed from the main stream. Here is a great source for video documentation.

http://www.infowars.com/clips.html

That was a pretty long-winded diatribe Nancy and the end result is that you doubly insulted he whom you say insulted you. Without realizing it.

Whether his information to you is useful in your mind is irrelevant...there are people who are a lot more important than any of us here and intellectuals and history researchers and those within the military itself who say 9/11 was an inside job.

There is a LOGICAL explanation for why people deem it so.

If you care so much for other people who might be reading this then the best thing you could do for them is let them read it...so they can make a logical choice as to where the truth lies.

The truth is out there...but you have closed your mind to those possibilities because you believe...what? That you are right? That you were raised a good little girl who isn't supposed to question anything?

I hate to tell you this Nancy...but things do go bump in the night...because somebody makes them...lol