Yes, but you don't KNOW that Jesus was gay.


Saying he might have been gay is still saying he is gay.


Ok, but I'm saying that you didn't understand the passage at all. You completely throw out the idea, but you still think Jesus could have been gay.

Show me some "historical recordings" of her being a holy woman prior to her meeting up with Jesus.

And where did I say I didn't?

So by me forgiving her would make me god like? I suppose, considering God wants us to forgive. Now, does this mean I am God? No

Then this is idolatry.

Again this is not intimacy, at least not the same as having sex with someone.

huh?

See my above post^

Then what was your original intent on bring it up in the first place?

Then my point still stands.


Sure many people do this. Do I? No. Regardless, you shouldn't sterotype the entire American race just because some people do these things.


I agree with you in terms of how it was wrong to wipe out the Native Americans. And yes it was bad. You and I have the same view here, but this doesn't mean that I or every other American is bad.

Again you are sterotyping. Many don't think this way, nor do many people want the "American Dream".

Just as you have no basis for calling Jesus gay.


Um...no.

I'm not sure where you get the idea of women as posessions. I think you're reading something into it that isn't there, I'm afraid.

All the best,

I've highlighted the relevant part. It's a relationship based on love - "just as Christ does(love) the Church". And what more love can there be? Christ died for us. Sacrificial love even.

All the best,

QUOTE(anami @ Jun 30 2005, 02:02 PM)
She strode for far nobler things than many people today ever think of. And you feel you are god like enough to judge and forgive HER!?





So by me forgiving her would make me god like? I suppose, considering God wants us to forgive. Now, does this mean I am God? No



Sorry but i must add my two cents.......What exactly do YOU need to forgive her for? has she done something to you?




QUOTE(bacca @ Jul 1 2005, 07:36 AM)
22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."



lets see......husband is head of wife.....make her holy, wash her? love your wife that's all well and good but where does it say husbands need to submit to thier wives?






I've highlighted the relevant part. It's a relationship based on love - "just as Christ does(love) the Church". And what more love can there be? Christ died for us. Sacrificial love even.

All the best,



[22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.


Maybe its just me because refuse to 'submit' to any man that i take offence to that statement. And there is a HUGE difference between submit and love!!!!

Bacca, I am a woman. I agree with this rule of submitting. As a wife we submit top our husbands. As we submit to God. We are to do as our husbands and God wants us to do. It is not saying do as your husband wishes if it harms you. It is stating that you have to be submissive to the good things. Not to do evil.

Thanks 101

Your welcome BFG.

With respect.


I am a male.
Does this mean that those of us that feel and treat our wife as equils are evil?

With respect, there is no inequality. Loving your wife. Submitting to your husband. How does this translate into inequality?

Only when these guidelines are abused by the selfish do they promote inequality.

All the best,

No of course not Charon. The whole thing is that we can also think we are equals and still submit. I don't think God wants us to be (as women) doormats. We are to be seen as equal and suybmit to our husbands. In no way shape or form are you evil.

Are you saying that your wife/gf/soul mate doesn't submit by no means?

All of this talk seems to be about the wife/gf/soul mate submitting to the husban and nothing about the other way around.

I have not nor will I feel like I am evil for being this way.
As I mentioned to BFG my reason for asking.

I don't know why they don't mention it the other way around. I think it is because we all have different roles in our relationship with God.

Then it is not true equality. True?

Well it is all how you look at it.

Man of God are = to woman of God.

But as a woman we are created for the man.

"Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man." [I Cor. 11:9] NKJV

So we as women are to prepare ourselves for becoming a wife.

The whole thing is that we are as equal as the man even if we were created for the man. Do yoiu understand as humans we are like this.

The lioness does the hunting and have the babies. The lion sits back and does his part. He provides his semen to produce offspring. So is this wrong. Are we not just like animals? don't we need a system the same. If we were doing the same why would we need one another?

You willingly submit to your husband? so what he says you do? you obey like a good little girl? Isn't that beautiful you can behave for your man, you should be so proud to have so little self respect that you can submit to a man, why? oh because some old book says so!!!! I suppose it makes his life easier knowing that you won't question his authority because he knows whats best for you because he loves you right? I wish I could be more like you with a man to submit to...i'm so jealous

For the most part that is what I was trying to say but in a nicer way.


Thank you Bacca.

Well Thanks. The point is I am no more less a woman then you are. I just choose to do right. What is so hard to say yes I will go to the bank for you dear. I mean it is not Make my supper now hoe! I mean I don't think you quite understand. But I think being sarcastic with your remarks is not necessary.

I will repeat the concluding thoughts to my last post, this time in capital letters because Charon and Bacca have totally missed the point of what we are trying to say.

ONLY WHEN THESE GUIDLENES ARE ABUSED BY THE SELFISH DO THEY PROMOTE INEQUALITY.

Does this make sense?

well be a good girl now and calm down you wouldn't want to get upset your husband may need you to rub his feet or something!! and yes the sarcasm is warranted you have taken decades of women fighting to be treated as equal and to have the right not to submit and basically said that they are wrong and bad for not wanting to have to bow down to any other human being because they happen to have different sexual equipment.....

and what is this women were made for the man OMG woman what is wrong with you? I'm sorry to be rude about it but it is way past any logical reasoning how any self-respecting woman can go there unless of course she should be on meds and just doesn't know any better

Thank you. I concur!

"Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man." [I Cor. 11:9] NKJV

Okay read the big print please Bacca.

Thank you. You are like a freakin Woman's right activist aren't you. OH MY GOD!
I am not in no way shape or form in a different state of mind. I am sober so what I said stands. As a woman we are for men. We take care of them . We fed them as babes. We provided them with nurishment. Without us we would not exist. Therefore we are here for men. Get over it. Just because you are insecure with yourself and feel you can't submit because you aren't a strong woman. A strong woman knows their role

Role:

Woman of God
mother'
wife
confodont

It isn't all about the sex and money. And if it is the right man you will want to rub his feet.

you are basing this ridiculousness on a book of FICTION. you willingly make your self a lesser human being? if your sober maybe you should go have a drink! or your head checked.......

Where on the Bible does it say fiction?

Yes I am basing it on this book.

Lesser woman, no I don't think so. You just ask my ex husband. I left him because he was abusing me. His right as a husband was being abused. He didn't deserve me. So he is gone. Does he want me back. Of course. Who wouldn't. I mean I was good top him and did what God wanted. But God doesn't want us to be abused.

No thanks I will pass on the drink.

you left a man? OMG you should be ashamed of yourself you should just submit....or do you have the right to pick and choose when you do this? Since i didn't read anywhere in there that says women have the right to choose when to submit they just should...........how about some prozac?

My goodness aren't you a fiery one.

Well yes I left a man. There are reasons. Did you not read them? Oh sorry you choose to read what you want to believe. So do you think submitting is so bad? I mean. What would you do if you didn't have a man? you probably don't because you won't submit! I mean hello we don't just pick and choose. We decide with the right judgement God has given us. I wouldn't submit to my husbands wishes if he said let us go have wild sex with 5 women.Why because in the bible you aren't supposed to lay down with a woman as you do a man. This is when you don't submit.

You are just hateful aren't you Bacca.

Prozac how do you know of these types of medicines unless you take them. And you got it all wrong this is an antidepressant an ssri. It is not going to help me with my submitting sorry deary.

actually I have a man, who wouldn't even want me to submit if i tried. He likes the fact that i have a mind of my own, my own opinions, that way when he asked a question i don't have to turn around and ask him what i should think......We give and take if we decide we want to, he rubs my back, brings me breakfast in bed...and asked for NOTHING in return if i want to do things for him i can and do but by a personal choice because i love him it has nothing to do with submitting....and if I told him that a woman should submit to a man he would laugh until he p****d himself.....why would a man want a submissive woman anyway? what fun would life be without two distinct personalities, which you can't have if one is doing entirely for the other.............

Do I need to enlarge the size of my typing?

Or perhaps use a different colour?

How hard is it to believe that submitting does not mean inequality. "Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord". I submit to God. Does that mean i am a doormat? Or somehow lesser? Edit: (in light of your last post, Bacca) Or have a less distinct personality?

Furthermore, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her". No violence and oppression here. only love. Indeed Jesus showed the ultimate love to the church by dying on the cross. That's how we as male's are to act.

It's not all about the female's submitting here.

And so I conclude..... again.....

It is the abuse of these laws by the selfish which promotes inequality in relationships.

Bacca,

1): refer for judgment or consideration
2)verb: put before
3) verb: yield to the control of another


The def. above are for submit. In red is the best to which I am referring. WE should consider what the man wants. We shouldn't just take take take and not give. I would not take unless given to first.

I am glad you got a man who gives you breakfast.

But I didn't ever say I didn't think ion my own. I am very outspoken with my beliefs and I never once shut my mouth unless it is an inappropriate place.
Just because you don't submit that is you. But I choose to do as God wanted me to. To live as a woman of God. God doesn't expect us to be buried under a man's control but to know where we stand.

Edit: Good points BFG.

so you have a womans place? you don't work right? woman are supposed to stay home take care of the family....thats it right?

How dare you stab that low. I work yes. But as a mother I also stayed at home for 16 months. I think you have it all wrong. A at home wife?mother is the most important role ever. You should be ashamed of yourself. Ask any respectable person what a real woman is. They would say a good mom, worker, and wife. Your attempt to degrade a housewife was pathetic, I wish you could comprhend what real lifde was like as a housewife.

I was a stay at home mother for my son for the first two years of his life.....because i wanted to be.....my ex-husband wouldn't have wanted me to be submissive....



sub·mis·sive
Pronunciation: s&b-'mis-iv
Function: adjective
: characterized by tendencies to yield to the will or authority of others

so where am i miss understanding that if you are submissive you know your place?

What? I am lost. I was stating that I knew my place. Then you reply a woman's place at home right? I reply yes I was for 16 months. You say this is the woman's place. So therefore we are submitting to our place even if it was our decision to stay. I understand what your saying but I am just stating what the Bible preaches.

Okay and also what BFG stated the men submit to christ as they are to their wives. So they submit also. So nothing discriminating women or men. Both equal.

wives should submit to their husbands in everything

where in that passage does it say that husbands submit? in those words? I understand that you love your spouse and like to do things that make them happy becuase that in turn makes you happy....but to say you actually submit? it doesn't sound to me like there is anything submissive about you....and I personally would consider that a good thing.....

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her".

I think this is kind of what you wanted. I don't recall seeing those exact words you state but this is like that. I will do what makes them happy. I do like to submit in the bedroom if that is what makes him happy. But yeah it is just the way you take the content of the scripture. No real person will totally be a slave to their husbands or vice versa. But to Love God is the real true love. He is who I wish to submit to. He is my man.

lol see this is where the problem is lol


I do like to submit in the bedroom if that is what makes him happy



I somewhat agree with that, but if it is what makes us both happy just depends on my mood

Yeah that is good. I think this is what that means in the Bible anyways. lol.

well if so at least it would be one good thing to take out of it lol and the whole washing thing? I do suppose in that context isn't so bad either

Are you refering to wash after you are i contact with semen or you both remain unclean? I agree with this. I like to shower afterwards and sometimes during.. But I don't know people interprut the Bible all different ways. Now we could do a version like the Kama Sutra.

the new improved bible huh? talk about a new spin on things

Isn't it nice that you two finally came to terms on this subject? I think it's awesome!!! Good job bacca and 101!



P.S. Can you figure out why I'm putting up a pic of chewbacca? I put it up for a reason!

*is afraid to guess*

Nah TD, can't really see a reason.......

Edit - took out observation for fear of retribution

All the best,

Hahahaha, very funny TD. I wasn't CHewing Bacca out silly. Was this the response you wanted from your pic?

Close... add chew to bacca's name to get...*drum roll* Chewbacca! Ok I was bored when I did that no offense to your username bacca, it's really cool

No offense taken since it is actually Chewbacca or better known around here as my cat!!!!

Your cat's name is chewbacca?! That's awesome! My cat's name is kitty, so that wouldn't make a good username on here

okay. If jesus resulted from a virgin birth somehow, apparently he was a normally formed human, and had genitalia. Why should using that (presumably in marriage) have kept him from being your God? Sex by itself is not sin.

If sex is not a sin, then why must children be cleansed from original sin with baptism?

sex is not a sin. otherwise we wouldnt have to have sex to reproduce. what was it god apparently said? "be fruitfull and populate the earth"?

unless he meant make a big fruit salad, im assuming he meant have sex to make little babies


dont quote me on this, but wasnt the original sin eating from the magical tree of knowledge. the forbidden tree. thanks alot eve. why wasnt she made to resist temptations like that. tut tut god. poor design.