I am thinking that this guy who wrote the article (on the link way below JMPD) is so difficult to prove wrong, i really need an unbiased view on this guy, can anyone help me?

I also opened this topic to find out what the debunkers have to say about this and possibly what other researchers have to say about this. In reality, what derrrrrbunkers are doing is steering the public away from the deeper hidden mysteries that this forum and many others are on the net to reveal. We all know this. Strange then that the forum moderators all over, while using sound unbiased and wise judgement to allow, disallow and guide, strange that they are allowing `reasonless arguments` to constantly fill up their spaces on their websites day after day and ALLOWING the watering down of some of their debates. Perhaps the UM forum like many others are in need of a rash of big news items revealing big stories like the opening of Osiris's tomb perhaps to bring their forum status back on high. By reading this old article (linked below JMPD) we can be reminded of the facts or common sense ideas that we all know concerning real government people and higher monitoring groups, daily monitoring mystery forum pages in case a sensitive topic comes up for them to debunk AS MUCH AS THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH. {Some} are instructed to lead the general public away from realizing what is being hidden and make sure truths remain a mystery to the vast majority on earth, they usually do this with baseless arguments that seem to appear as rationless oneliners with no attempt to argue`why not`.... But what is it that fuels this very effortless invisible control over those who do not know that they are actually holding back the rest of us when obviously debunking without reasoning but with seeminly polishing ego's? I guess if we had insight into the future we would never have to look back to these days thinking, `if only`. Please remember, if anything fears you with the aliens, there are always ways to exhalted the situation coming to us...

Well that's my argument expanded. As I previously wrote, http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=44276 , I am studying the nature of debunkers to understand what topics are considered sensitive as well as more on their mindset as they reflect the real enemy, perhaps with a collective formidable force on the internet aside of misinformation spreaders. Anyway, one person who has had alien contact, has friends who have, and has researched their mindset more than most explains below how to see through the debunker faction who limit public awareness and how to recognize some misinformation. The article also gives a fair impression on what I have personally seen about what some 4th density entities do to women, men and other animals, even during sex. There is always a way to exhalted these experiences with ET's, always. Thanks to the debunkers it has taken so long for the majority to eventually accept the obvious mysteries.

Yes we do have ghosts and 4th dimensional entities.

Yes we do have aliens. At last the majority in America finally believe in the possibility.

Now can we finally move into the realm most are still fearful of and expose the controllers, the reptilians, the real fear and warmongers? Or do you need CNN to tell you about the many thousands who share the experiences of being raped by invisible entities male or female.....or believe thousands of reports on this and many other thousands of related stories....Do escuse my angered arrogance on this post....We have a thunderstorm outside and the point is, I already know that it's too late for the majority to be informed of the bigger storm coming to change our lives their way, or ours.

http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardt...n_the_march.htm

I think that set up my trap to catch the `Rats of No Reason`....Let's see what takes the bate...

OK- I don't beleive in Reptilians. Why? Just look at David Icke- wingnut dressed in purple claiming to be the messiah and calling the Royal family a bunch of lizards. Nobody talked about reptilians before him, why should they exist? I'm starting to beleive that there is no NWO- just a bunch of dishonest politicians, and crooks mixed in with a tyrant or two.

[quote=babayagafamiliar,Jun 28 2005, 03:39 PM]
OK- I don't beleive in Reptilians. Why? Just look at David Icke- wingnut dressed in purple claiming to be the messiah and calling the Royal family a bunch of lizards. Nobody talked about reptilians before him, why should they exist? I'm starting to beleive that there is no NWO- just a bunch of dishonest politicians, and crooks mixed in with a tyrant or two.
[right][snapback]704007[/snapback][/right]


Thats because your smart. Your looking at things logically and realizing the conspiracy nuts are just that. Nuts.]

yeah, David Icke does seem to be a bit imbalanced

David Icke is one of the reasons people do not believe in aliens he is a full blown nut case and you would have to be crazy to listen to any thing he says

I have been abducted many times....more than I care to remember and many more that I don't. .....and I do not and I repeat do NOT remember any type of a LIZARD thing. OK. Take it those big eyes and that grey skin the grey's have is enough to give anyone the willie's. I think this whole Reptillian thing has really taken away from the actual events that are going on here. I can see why people laugh at this stuff...HECK if I hadn't been going through it like I have been I would laugh as well......there are no "SUPERIOR" race of LIZARDS.

Yeah,......anyway...
________________________________________________________________________________

Subject: "The Threat"

From an interview with David Jacobs On "The Threat"
By UFO Journalist Sean Casteel

Temple University professor David Jacobs, Ph.D., the author of the
highly regarded books The UFO Controversy In America and Secret
Life, has spent more than 30 years researching UFOs and alien
abduction. But it was only recently that he came to feel he had
solved the mystery to his own satisfaction. The solutions he arrived
at are the subject of his third book, The Threat: What The Aliens
Really Want And How They Plan To Get It (Simon and Schuster, 1998).
Finding what he believes to be the answers was not a happy event for
Jacobs. He told us recently that he now approaches the subject with
an attitude of dread and deep concern about the future of humanity
and the planet we call home.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>

Casteel: What do the aliens really want?

Jacobs: Well, you know, the ultimate question I think to ask for the
UFO phenomenon is "Just what the hell do you think they're here
for?" That's the question that I've tried to address in this book--
what is this all about? What is happening here? Why is this
happening? Why are people saying that these events are happening? So
what I've done then is try to answer those questions as best I can
by using as much information as I can from eleven years of fairly
intensive research into abductions.

And what I've been able to find is that this is a program. They're
not here just because they're examining people, or studying people,
or experimenting on people. I don't know, Sean, if you remember I
gave a talk about that in Los Angeles when I saw you. So they're not
here to sort of "examine" us in some way. They're here on a mission.
They're here with a goal in mind. They've got a program, and it's a
program with a beginning, a middle and an end. It's a program that
is goal-directed and I think we're entering into sort of the end-
phase of this program. I think that we're moving towards the end of
this.

And the program ultimately is not abducting people. Abductions, you
have to remember, are a means to an end. They're abducting people
for a purpose, for a reason. The physical act of abducting people,
which is the abduction phenomenon, really is only part of the
program. So what I've done is kind of divided it into component
parts and fleshed it out a lot more. So what we have here is an
abduction program, a breeding program, which accounts for all the
reproductive activity that we see, and a hybridization program,
which is why people see hybrids all the time--as babies, as
toddlers, as adolescents, and then as adults.

And then, finally, I think all this is leading to an integration
program in which ultimately these hybrids, who look very human, will
be integrating into this society. And who will eventually, I assume,
be in control here because they do have superior technology and
superior physiological abilities that we do not have. We would
therefore be sort of second-class citizens, I think.

Now, I find this to be very disturbing. And the interesting thing is
that I don't really see other scenarios. I know that people feel
it's positive and it's wonderful, and all the rest of that. And
they're here to help us. But in the cases that I've investigated,
very carefully, very thoroughly, for a very long time, I have not
had people discuss that. When people discuss the future, generally
speaking, they are discussing this integration program that they're
confronting, and we're all confronting. I've been involved with UFO
research for about 32 years now, since about 1965, and I have never

been downcast or depressed about the phenomenon. I have never been
pessimistic about it. I've always been filled with wonder and awe
and amazement at it. I've been enthusiastic and optimistic about it.

But I must say that now that I've learned as much as I have learned,
and I think I've learned an awful lot, I am very, very unsettled and
upset by what I see. I don't like what I see. I wish I didn't see
this. I wish I hadn't uncovered this. I despair of it. It's thrown
me into a tremendous sense of concern about the future and unease. I
just don't like it very much. I wish I did. I don't want to be this
way. I don't want to be the bearer of bad news. I could not have
ever imagined that I would come to this position. What I'm seeing
now, what I've found with the phenomenon, I could never have
imagined.

Now, though, I am persuaded by the evidence. I think that we are
looking at a very serious business happening in front of us. As you
know, the UFO and abduction phenomena is very, very widespread. And
people have seen tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe
millions of UFOs around the world for a long time now, at least
through the 20th Century, and certainly since 1947, and before that
as well. It means that the amount of time and energy put into this
program is really quite enormous. This means that it has a
tremendous amount of importance to these beings.

And there's another aspect to it also that is disconcerting. It's a
secret phenomenon. They don't want us to know what they're doing.
They don't want us to interfere. This is a consciously-arrived-at
and successful secrecy program to prevent us from knowing. Gosh,
that makes me very uneasy, Sean.

So anyway, I've become depressed about the whole thing.

Casteel: So the reason for all this negative feeling and depression
is because you feel that you and I and people who are natural human
beings will somehow be subject to a higher form of oppression?

Jacobs: Of authority, right. I do think that something like that is
going to happen. The way I look at is, I have one scenario which I
like. All the rest of them I don't like. The one scenario which I do
like is that one day, they will come to the abductees and say, "Our
program is done now. We have accomplished our goal. We've taken what
we need. Thank you so much for your help. Thank you so much for your
cooperation. We'll be leaving now. You'll never know we were even
there. People will wonder forever whether they were abducted or not.
Now, goodbye and good night." That's my favorite scenario. I love
that scenario. But in fact, we never hear that. We always hear a
scenario about the future in which these beings say they're going to
be here with us.

And everything is going to be wonderful. Everything is going to be
great. It's going to be just delightful. We're going to like it,
they're going to like it, everybody's going to like it. That's the
future according to them, but when I take a look at their society,
and when I take a look at a future in which they would be in control
because of their superior technology and physiological abilities, I
see a very, very different society than the kind that we live in now-
-a society that's far more restricted and far more controlled. The
whole concept of individual freedom in this kind of society would be
under serious question. I don't like that. I don't want it. I would
rather have human beings make their own mistakes and fix their own
problems and do things by themselves. I think we're perfectly
capable of doing it. I think we can all live together into a happy
future. I think that's within the realm of possibility.

Casteel: So they paint a Utopian picture of what's going to happen?

Jacobs: Well, they paint a picture of what they consider to be good
for themselves. And they live in a controlled society. They live in
a society where everybody knows his or her job. They live in a
society where everything is controlled. The ability for people to
act independently is very, very circumscribed in this kind of
society that they live in. I just don't like it. I'm filled with
apprehension over this. Now the key thing here is they are here for
a reason. They are not studying or experimenting on us, and they're
keeping their activities secret from us so we won't find out.

Casteel: That's what you were saying at the lecture, that they were
way beyond the experimental stage.

Jacobs: Right. In fact, that was the title of the lecture "Is this
an experiment or a program?" You don't have to be a rocket scientist
to see what's going on. This doesn't look like an experiment to me,
you know. It's been worldwide with millions of people for 50 years.
Day in, day out, 24 hours a day. What kind of an experiment is that?
And there are a lot of other reasons why it's not an experiment.

So it's disconcerting. And I never used to think this until I began
to put it together--until I began to come to these conclusions and
realize I think this is what it is. I think that in the book,
basically, I've advanced hypotheses which might very well
essentially be what this UFO phenomenon is all about. This is not
the final aspect of studying this phenomenon, but I do think that
I've fleshed out what the goals and purposes are. We're not exactly
sure of all the "whys." Why they would want to do it in the first
place? What's the point? We don't really know that. But I think this
is certainly a hypothetical answer to the UFO puzzle. I think pretty
much we've answered it.

That's what we're looking at. And therefore I think we're looking at
a very difficult future.

Casteel: So the "how-they-plan-to-get-it" part would be through the
breeding and hybridization programs?

Jacobs: Yeah, but how it's going to be played out, I don't really
know. There's a lot of different scenarios. There's the Disaster
Scenario that abductees keep talking about over and over again.
We've had this for years and years. I don't quite know how that's
going to happen. Whether there's going to be a disaster or not.
There's a scenario where they just sort of naturally and nicely
integrate into this society and we never even know it's happening. I
guess there's things in the middle. We don't really know how what
the aliens and abductees call "The Change," is going to take place.
We don't really know that quite yet.

Casteel: But they're given visions like the world on fire or natural
disasters, that kind of thing?

Jacobs: Yeah, well, it's all sorts of disaster scenarios, which
includes atomic war. It includes asteroids hitting the earth. It
includes floods, plagues, famine, whatever. It's sort of a
generalized disaster and you just fill in the blanks as to what kind
of disaster it will be. It's really non-specific, although people
report more atomic war or the earth cracking in half or being
destroyed by a comet or something like that more than other things,
I guess.

I don't think the specifics are all that important, but the idea of
a disaster is the most important thing. But I don't know whether
that's true or not. We really don't know that yet because it might
be a very different scenario. But I'm certainly going to stick by my
guns and say that this is an integration program. However it's
worked out, they will be integrating into this society and that's
what this is leading to.

As I say about all my books, there's no possibility, Sean, that I
have avoided error. I'm going to be wrong somewhere, somehow, in God
knows how many things. But I think that this hypothesis that I'm
presenting here is supportable by the evidence. And that's what
makes it more disturbing. Everything I've written in this book is
evidence-driven. That's why it's such a difficult book to deal with.

Casteel: Well, it's like "Invasion of the Body Snatchers," where you
end up mouthing the words, "It's better this way. We have no pain
now."

Jacobs: You are exactly right. I've thought about that, too. And of
course one of the things I've been criticized for is because it has
such a science-fiction quality to it. And then people
say, "Therefore it is science-fiction." People have picked it up in
the culture and that's why I'm hearing this. What they do is they
make the mistake by finding similarities and saying that the
similarities are in fact equalities. Which, of course, they are not.
The fact is though is that it does have what they call "Programmatic
Content." It does have content whereby we can see the inner workings
of what they're doing and what's happening. And there are parallels
in science-fiction, and certainly one of them is "Invasion of the
Body Snatchers." That is in fact one of the parallels we see. But
there's a lot of other parallels in science-fiction also. And if you
look hard enough, you're going to be able to find a bit and a piece
of it here and there and everywhere. But I don't think that this is
science-fiction.

You've got to remember that most abductees are really not much into
science-fiction. Most people I work with say they don't follow
science-fiction. They haven't seen those movies. They don't know
about that kind of stuff. It's not something where it just pervades
the society. As people try to tell me, "Well, it's just sort of
everywhere." Well, it isn't exactly like that. You've got to
remember that the abduction phenomenon, while similar to science-
fiction here and there, is really very different in almost all of
its areas. It really is a different kind of situation, as you know.

And of course you have situations where people see other people
being abducted and people are physically missing from their normal
environment. There's a strong physical component to it that's very
tough to explain.

Casteel: One thing I thought was interesting was the way you went
over the varying degrees of hybrids. Varying percentages of human
versus alien combinations.

Jacobs: Yeah, I tried to put forward a new concept of hybridization.
One that makes more sense and one that's more in line with the
evidence as it's presented by the abductees.

Casteel: Like subtle degrees between the various kinds?

Jacobs: Right. And you know, it does make sense that way. It answers
a lot of things. It makes sense primarily because abductees have
been saying this. So I was able to divide it into sort of like late
stage, middle stage, and early stage hybrids. But one of the
interesting things about this phenomenon, Sean, is that you know I
talked about toddlers and what kind of toys they played with and
young children and what they play with. And I even had some sort
of "widget" that the adolescents tinkered with. Remember? There was
that one sequence where he had a box and he had to press certain
things and if he pressed them the right way there was a flash.
Remember that?

Casteel: Yeah, like an alien Nintendo or something?

Jacobs: Right. But in terms of toys, we basically know quite a lot
about alien toys, about kids' toys, and all that. And the hybrids
and what they do. I spent a lot of time on hybrid children. If this
were psychological, I couldn't do that. We wouldn't be able to
describe certain toys that they used that other people have
described as well. We're learning so much about this phenomenon,
it's just extraordinary. And yet everything we learn points in the
direction of the integration program.

Remember I talked about this one woman who was involved in this sort
of learning situation in which she was standing in front of a class
of hybrids. And a picture of a dog came down.

Casteel: Right, and she was supposed to explain all the earthly
things.

Jacobs: And she was asked "What's a dog for?" And she said, "Well,
you know, it's a companion" and all that. But see, that points to
integration into the society. Everything points to it. This concern,
this interest in earth things. I don't think it's just sort
of "interest." I think they're interested in it for a reason. The
interesting thing here is they're not saying, "How do you elect a
president?" "What do you do Saturday night?" and things like that.
They're not interested in politics, economics, culture, society.
That they're not concerned with. And we almost never, never get
questions about that. But if this were psychological, we would be
getting questions like that. But they're interested in physiology,
they're interested in anatomy, they're interested in the natural
world, the environment, animals, things like that. Things that are
not man-made necessarily. As if in the future, it's not going to
matter what we have built. The only thing that's going to matter is
what they do. That's one way of looking at it.

But it's disconcerting. You want them to ask questions about
Clinton, you know, and things like that. Something where you can see
they really are learning about society, but in fact, if they
integrate into this society, there's going to be an overlay of their
society. And ours isn't going to matter a whole lot. That's my
interpretation. Now I might be awfully wrong about that, but it
certainly is my interpretation of it.

Casteel: Well, given the inevitability of it all, you just kind of
want to hang on to some kind of shred of hope that it'll be a good
thing somehow.

Jacobs: Well, the one hope I have right now is not much of a hope.
But the hope that I have right now is the fact that it's still
secret. That is to say that as long as it's still secret, they must
assume that they are still vulnerable and therefore there's a way
that we can affect the program. That's not a whole lot to hang on
to, for me. But you know I despair that the scientific community is
going to realize the import of what's happening in front of them. I
think that even if they do, there's so much water under the bridge
and we're so far down the line with this that indeed it may make no
difference. Maybe 30 or 40 years ago it might have made a
difference, but I'm looking to the future where I just don't see the
scientific community getting interested in this subject. It hasn't
happened in the past, and failing some sort of sudden event, some
sort of sudden revelation, some sort of incredible thing, "Clinton
Exposed As Alien Himself," or something like that, I just don't see
them becoming interested in it. They've had half a century of the
ability to have that interest and have not utilized it.

I don't like what I'm seeing here. I've spent my entire adult life
studying this subject intensely. Year after year. I have a
professional degree with a Ph.D. in the subject and I teach the only
course in the country on the subject, the only regularly scheduled,
full credit course in the country, which I've taught for 19 years.
I've written three books on the subject and many articles. And I've
never really felt the despair I feel now that I think that we've
broken it open and we're looking at it and examining it. And it's
just not what I expected. It's not what anybody expected. I just
wish it was not that way. I just don't like it.

However, this is one of those situations where you can despair of it-
-you can feel Oh, my God, this is awful--but you have to lead your
life as though it's not happening. It's the only way you can get
along. It's the way I get along. And I've got two kids, you know. So
I look at them and I look at the book and I don't know what kind of
future they're going to have. That's true. I really don't. That
wasn't just words. This is of great concern to me. I really don't
know what kind of future they're going to have.

Casteel: Well, again, I guess the one ray of hope is the possibility
that it won't be a cruel form of oppression to live under them.

Jacobs: Well, that certainly might be possible. I don't think it's
going to be a cruel form of oppression. I just think it's going to
be very different and not to our liking. I don't see an oppressive
situation necessarily. I don't think that we're going to be whipped
like a slave in a galley on a Viking ship or something like that.
But at the same time, I do not see the freedom of movement and
action and activity that we have now. Individual freedom and freedom
of thought and all that to be the same in the future as it is now.

You've got to remember these beings are telepathic beings. They tap
right into your thoughts. I don't want anybody tapping into my
thoughts. When I was down in Brazil earlier I gave a paper on what
it's like to live in a telepathic society based on abductees'
testimony about the society that the aliens live in and the kind of
telepathy that the abductees experience. And Sean, you don't want
that society. You want to be private. You want to keep your thoughts
private. You want to have individual expression, individual
thoughts. You want to be able to do what you want to do without
anybody knowing. And in their society, that's not necessarily true.
It's a different kind of society.

So, is alien integration into Earth's society already a given? Will
we lose many of the freedoms we currently enjoy to the superior
capabilities of the aliens and the hybrid offspring that are also a
part of us?

The old truism "Only Time Will Tell" seems operative here, as it
does with so much of the UFO mystery. And in the words of rock
singer Tom Petty, "The Waiting Is The Hardest Part."
_________________

What do the fearful skeptics think?

You've certainly opened a can of cosmic wormholes.
You mean to tell me that you think that an ultra-driven, ultra-accomplished,
ultra-single minded and single purposed group at the top of the heap would not
come here just for a lark? Not just for some Martian form of NASA?

Maybe they are a mixed lot, with non-competing purposes.
Maybe they are spiritually advanced (while capturing people in the dark).
Maybe they are confirmed religio-scientists, who spread the good word.
Maybe the life of a star faring civilization is an easy one, with no conflicts, and no
militaries needed.

Maybe, none of the above. We may now face the possibility of being neutered by depleting resourses, and energy wars over the next 25 years. Granted we can gassify coal for awhile, and we might have nuclear power, but the fact is oil makes our military function, and our land and sea transportation work. We face a bumpy transition to relying on coal for basic chemicals.

Iran, EMP, And The Means To Inflict a Decade of Trouble

It seems we are at an impass. We buy oil. They get rich. We need to
insure oil flows continue, and we favor private oil companies. Iran and Saudi Arabia, and Iraq, all favor state ownership. That puts the politicos in charge, and they don't always like us. Meanwhile, industrial expansion continues, with no assured petroleum source after mid-century.

If there are concerned parties out there, are they aware of our somewhat difficult situation? Would they help steer us in a better direction? Friend helping friend?

Makes you wonder...Besides, and I've said it before, there can be no 'sharing'
of the keys to the kingdom. Either they remake us in their image, or share nothing.

Anything may be possible, but judging close to home, I question reptillian visitors. I threw a basic timeline chart together. The age of dinosaur/reptiles began around 230 million years ago. They were unimpeded for 165 million years.

And consider the upper end of their size.The large creatures had to be dominant.
When I consider how human growth is regulated, it seems to relate. Human bones grow until the ends harden, once and for all. Without that, we ruin our joints. But, dinosaurs tended to be four legged. So the weight was distributed. Even upright ones probably had the means of compensating, perhaps with permanently flexed joints, and posture.

It took serious efforts to displace them, and only through a cosmic event. Whether that was a nearby supernova that wrecked the atmosphere, or an asteroid that created a 'nuclear winter', they might have gone on, forever. Large, and lumbering, and snacking on things in the 4-5 foot range.

Small proto-mammals filled in the void caused by disappearing behemoths. Some mammals lived in trees, ate fruit and insects, developed nifty hands, and trimmed up the sensory package.

That began 65 million years ago, and picked up speed after 50-55 million years.
Our group goes back some 10 million years. The question is, has our evolution
slowed down? Slow as it is, what will challenge us? Do we have to wait a million years to get another lobe to our brain? What makes that happen? Attrition of the non-scientific types? And what necessitates a larger brain? To think that any species needs to grow a brain, not to outwit his prey, but to survive fundemental changes in the world and the environment, sounds like a tough proposition.
Mammals need something like genetic intervention, to get to an oversized brain. What I'm getting at, are the means for becoming super-evolved. (radiation event?)

In the case of reptiles/dinosaurs, given the average life cycle of a yellow G-class star, they could easily thrive. Except for really bad ice ages. Of course, the question is about small reptillian, upright, bi-pedal astronauts. Lest, we forget, their metabolism is different. Their temperature regulation is difficult. And, they would need to bear live young. A human or humanoid has the advantage of additional brain development that continues right after birth. A reptile would need to do the same thing, unless they had very large brains in gestation, or cared for their young, as mammals do. Mammals do this through dependency.


Living in the trees brings great advantages, later on. It would be interesting to
know about other life in the Universe, and if there are other creatures with
opposing thumbs, and if they have naturally selected brains. In the end, though,
I rule out no life forms given all possible scenarios.


Timeline

Though historical artifacts and artwork can all be elaborate fakes, there are may depicting reptillian bodies. Many more accounts are talking of reptillian experiences, but most are gray experiences. Perhaps there is more to learn about the earth that is not secretly hidden from the public. It all depends on how you do your research. But there are hoaxers of course. It just needs a clever mind to look for the facts or the falsities. When the press stated the Icke said he was the one of god, everybody believed the press. If you asked him he would have told you no. He was told that he was by voices of unknown origin. With so many believing in the media cofusion results. Though if he was influenced by an unknown origin, who is to say that he is not being manipulated mentally by an unknown origin.

Hoaxers do exist though... http://www.ufowatchdog.com/howe2.html

Its an interesting theory claiming that reptiles rule the world through some work of god, but thinking about it is where the entire thing falls apart, how exactly would a creature morph into the shape of a human being? secondly reptiles have an oversized medula oblongota meaning that their aggression is often instinctual and ragefull there is no evidence of george bush mauling a photographer and finally the man has no forked tongue

are you suggesting george bush is a reptillian?

sorry man, reptilians are as close to monkey's as humans are... fact.



all humanoids are... be real, humans have a greater potential than those who feed through supression....


Fact is reptilians are not gods, they got lucky.... It is their master's throats I want to slit... that goes beyond aliens etc and relates to the fact that history cann never be proven by any human method until time is actually deciphered.. Yeah. the real aliens are artists with time and are never seen.


reptilians are only a pawn system to help evolution in concentrated form.... They are not real.... but nor are humans..



I was at a farm once.... met a family with a boy with amazing powers... no not really amazing, just beyond humand contrived logic..


he once mad a mini bow and arrow out of bamboo...i lstayed some 500 meters away from their house and he never came to my place, but little bamboo arrows wou;d suddenly appear in my bed room and i would see him in the feild at a distance laughing around....


yeah, well, anything could have happened... but that continued a few weeks to my understanding that it was him.. i am so skeptical....


one day he had a fever, i went to his home to help his mother and stopped in sudden shock as i saw the boy lying on the floor, gasping for breath in the humid heat..


I saw his face.... what i saw i cann never get people to believe because it turns reality on it's head.... i saw very minute hairline cracks all over his face... klike threads of hair but to the shape of his face and all glisning..,.. the weird thing was that when he breathed in his face expanded, the lines of light increased a few millimetres and the cracks made plates of the various parts of his head come apart slightly as if he was not real but a model of something looking so human with a massive light inside.... in fact it was reality that was bending, not him... he perhaps like the vast majority here, are not real...


this is a weak assumption which plays into gods and images where really reptilians are as the humans.....my assumption is backed up by so much evidence that scares me....

I am only online to break the illusion.... step by step i am.... but hey... the boy's face was really as if a cracked doll was expanding then coming back to one piece again.... so the line that went the the nose made the hole expand not just the nose.... so how could that be a reality to face with logic...


the attacks i recieve are partly from the bullish dracs... but there is a massive jubngle out there of the weirdest of creaturs... and i am only putting dracs into perspective... fear is their advantage... face the fear of boogie man and it will show you secrets.... I was very deliberate to share the secret of that boy with you..... I never told you about his mother... and the neighbours.... very very very bizzare, and all in 21st century earth..... aliens exist but there is far more weirder stuff than dealing with a scaled skinned blugreen humanoid intent on test9ing your honour and courage,....... so far we are being weened off the blobs of light and blurs in the skies..... trainspotting was always boring.... I hope people are ready for the really wild stuff that will eventually shove the dark reps out the door.... OKwell the psions are preparing... at least...

How a young mind works..?

Energy is a great thing and can be channeled into certain directions...Ever thought of becoming an author..?

This farm you visited..was there livestock..? And was this a part of the therapy..?

Looking at your sig makes me think the same about you son.... the problem is, therapy is probably a reverse psyche reflection exactly on what you need. Certainly there are much more weirder stuff you ain't mature enough to hear so i only scwibblewd of the tip of the iceburg.....grow up andf you will learn that there is always more to learn....


... Time for a laugh ..... JK Rowling.... look at pictures of her during her first book release and today... also Caroline Vordaman, look at pictures of her ten years ago and today.... the point is a little too mature to be recieved by you until you can accept the immposible and accept copncepts beyopnd human ability to equate. when you do, i will be able to acvtually show you stuff. Until then, I scribble on this forum to appear mad with exacting facts on experiences... Like the missing gulf stream and the Uk big freeze properganda.... Fear my scwibnbles or just ignore them... but it is time for a Dunder maturity gag... wait and see

Interesting drawing of a bi-pedal,intelligent lizard-type creature:



click to enlarge

I just wanna say, there are sightings of that creature in my country (Philippines) for more than 50 years till now.

what exactly is the books name? out of curiosity.

Where do i start????

Is anybody else sick of his exra long posts of nonsense?
zeus do you not realise you are infact a debunker yourself? Go study yourself! if people have a hard time beliving your fantasies then dont assume they are debunking, its just that most of your posts are similar to that of the people with severe mental ilnesses. I have seen first hand in a pshyche ward people who sound more sane than you and your ideas.

The point is you come across as a bit of a nutter after some attention, its ok if you have no freinds or hobbies and really belive youre being attacked by reptillians just dont brand people debunkers just because they dont belive you.

If i started a post and said i have a ufo in my garage and fly to work in it and sometimes at weekends i even go to mars if the weather permits, would you belive me? and would i be entitled to call you a debunker just because you dont.

You have no evidence to support your ravings, just a few media coincedences. if you really want to see an end to debunking stop the nonsensical posts and lets have a little evidence, just a small piece. If this is happening on such a grand scale then why is it only you posting this crap?? your posts are in pidgeon english that nobody can understand, they are like riddles or something cutting short halfway through a sentance and starting again on a totally different track.

I suppose you will call me a debunker and say you are being silenced by admin to stop you helping humanity and freeing us from the evil reptillians. The fact is we DO need saving.... from wind up merchants such as yourself who ruin and make a mockery of an otherwise serious site.

You need to cut out the drugs or take you medicine and stop watching the matrix. You are not going to save humanity from the shackles of the reptillians, you are not neo, you are not zeus or any other god like body and you most certainly arent sane. YOU NEED HELP!

The way I would like to put it is, people will not take you seriously if you share your thoughts and experiences in this manner. Your claims and theories are very new in comparison to what the majority of us know about.

The way you have incorporated social/historical background and past experiences to serve as a support for your theories and claims is interpreted by most people as a sign of Dellusion. As 'Captain Pish' pointed out, "You are not going to save humanity from the shackles of the reptillians".. the presentation of your posts and the way you portray this subject of Reptillians seems to fit in strongly with symptoms of Schizophrenia, specifically dellusions of Paranoia and Granduer - Grandeur is where you believe you are more important than you really are and are here to 'save us' - claiming to be a saviour just like John Babtist (if youve heard of him).

I recommend you watch the movie 'A Beautiful Mind'.


PERSONALLY, I dont entirely believe you are mentally ill, no, I think you might be one of the few individuals out there who are so passionately sure that these things exist and find that it is an explosion of desperate energy to get this out to people. And it is this which makes people like you and David Icke as the loony ones.

Is that so..? How old do you think I am to be your son..? I seen things and experienced things that your little mind would never comprehend young pretender..!

Good luck with your little book..!!!

I think it's entirely possible there are reptile aliens. I also think we humans are easily influenced by what we see on television. There's an old Star Trek episode where Kirk fights a repltile alien:






Maybe people,with good intentions,are subconsciously transposing fiction into real life.

I refuse to discount anything no matter how crazy it sounds. If we are truly being visited by different kinds of aliens with different agendas, we're going to get conflicting reports. There might be dozens of races visiting the earth, most of which are probably very good at leaving no trace of their visits. If the U.S. government is hiding the truth from us out of fear that the masses would panic, I'm sure any evidence that is left behind will mysteriously vanish by way of a government agent or two.

Besides not being able to trust the government, you can't believe what most aliens tell people either. If the greys are making millions of hybrids to take over the earth, they're probably not going to tell us that. They'll fill our heads with some kind of Steven Spielberg type of fantasy.

So let's say that this page is true for a moment:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/conspire.htm

Then reptilian aliens control the greys. The greys do most of their dirty work. And as the following page also suggests, the grays are creating millions of hybrids that will live among us and eventually take over:

http://aliensandchildren.org/InterviewwithProf.htm

If those pages are correct and no other alien races will help us unless we all promise to hold hands and get rid of our nukes, what can we do about it? If every human decided to wear a thought screen helmet, I guess that could cut down on the abductions if it really works, but so many hybrids must already exist that it would be a waste of time (except for personal peace of mind). It seems we have no way to stop them since the governments of the world are never going to get rid of their precious nuclear weapons.

If we can believe this information, all the grays are waiting for is the right time. A major world-wide catastrophe will be the starting gun. I don't know why they don't just cause it themselves and be done with it. It makes me wonder if the so-called good aliens are stopping them. If the reptilians own the human race, maybe the good aliens can't do much to interfere with our treatment, but the reptilians may not own the earth, so the good aliens feel they have the right to protect this planet against unnatural damage from alien races. Humans can damage the earth all they want and things like comets and asteroids on untouched paths are free to smash into the planet at any time, but maybe all damage caused by aliens is forbidden.

Of course, that could all be total crap and there are no aliens. Life could be nothing but baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet (with a little Jesus on Sunday). I wouldn't bet money on it though.

LOOL Ok, so are you guys basing the whole reptilians idea on Star Trek, or claiming that David Icke watched too much Star Trek ? Thats just a funny looking lizard suit !

nobody should ever think liek that, so if he said the sky is blue, that would mean it isn't blue?

just because he's whacked don't mean it's ture.

which if he said, that trees can talk and one day you go outside and a tre tals to you? just beause he's retard*d don't mean he isn't saying something true,

P.S. I don't believe him either.

It's interesting that David Icke would garner such heat from debunkers.

While I liked his anti-masonic tirades, and found them intriguing, I had real trouble with his 'Interwiew with a Reptiloid'. It just sounded too much like a National Enquirer story.

David Icke has some good evidence about Shapeshifters aka reptilians are trying to control us videoclipserpentrace Videoclip3rdeye VideoonReptilians

That is going to get you into big trouble one day mark my words.

Stories as far fetched as this need to be deciphered from the real world. People who purposely attempt to dupe others at this level should be locked up.
Unfortunatley, this is how the young are taken advantage of.

Remember

If you stop to think, remember to start again.

LOL

Hrrmmzzz, just went and had a look at his site, and read 2 reviews on him, after about 3 seconds on his site, I could see that the term "good evidence" is somewhat of a stretch.
Wonder if he and that Yaweh dude hang out on weekends.

A person who dismisses anything that does not fit within his or her narrow view without checking it out first is just as crazy as the nutwads who believe everything they hear or read. Not everything that is different is a lie or the product of an insane mind. You never know unless you examine each idea as it comes up.



How do you know that your view of the 'real world' is correct? What if you have been deceived? What if we all have been deceived? Far fetched does not mean false. Locking people up because they believe something that seems odd to you in an attempt to protect the status quo sounds insane to me. Why don't we lock up religious people and those who believe that objects can give them luck while we are at it? They're just as 'crazy' don't you think?

So if I told you that elephants just took wing in Botswana, you wouldn't dismiss it?

If it actually happened, there's a good chance that we'd see video of it on all of the news channels, so it would be kind of hard to dismiss.

Usually, common sense is a good indicator here.
Your view of the world is certainly not narrow, I will give you that, however, neither is mine. I simply take no stock in outrageous ideas and ridiculous notions.
Checking all sources is certainly commendable, however, it is also the mark of an intelligent person to make a distinction between wasting time and being thorough.
Would you travel to Machu Pichu to see a cow that was born blue with red stripes because you overheard it on some public transport somewhere?
Or one more analogy to demonstrate my point on danger -
If you saw teenagers with swasticas on their forheads, giving away free Audi's at Charlie Mansons little Staurday night get together - would you show up to claim your prize, knowing who Charles Manson was and what he is famous for, because it is a far fetched claim, but you never know, could be free nice car and some fun........



I know my view of "the Real World" is correct because I have a brain in my head and I use it
If I have been decieved, I will handle it when and if such a thing happens. What is proposed is very unlikely, so I honestly believe I am safe here.
Wow, you are serious aren't you? Do you honestly believe for one second that George Bush or the Royal Family are reptiles?????? Do you think that's why they removed Lady Di?????? Please I am praying you do not answer yes to that.
If people go around making such claims YES lock em away and throw away the key. This sort of ridiculous tripe feeds and breeds stupidity. Our society does not need that. That is not acceptable to the masses that need to protect our young. Remeber Johanesburg??? Being lead around by the nose by some crackpot is bad and can be fatal. Dead set, If I saw a whacko talking like that to one of my kids, I'd take to his head with a chunk of waterpipe.

We do not lock up religious people because they devote their entire existance to helping thier fellow man, If you think that is whacko, you need mental help. What is 'crazy' about helping each other?????

Depends on what you mean by religious nut - someone wearing a St Christophers medallion ?

In that case, what is wrong with PERSONAL faith? How is a person wearing under their shirt a small piece of comfort affecting ayone - how is that crazy?? You are obviously one of these cowards that uses religion to bolster their arguments hoping all the forum vamps and werewolves will back you up. That is pathetic. Do not blow out another candle to make yours burn brighter.

Or do you mean the TV evangalist who gets the world to give for God?

In this case- Trying to help them mentally would be my first option but if they insist on attempting to take advantage of the entire populous yep lock em up with the rest of the whackos, let them compare 'views of the wolrd and reality' for the rest of thier days and let the rest of us move forward and live in peace.

Maybe you better have a look at the world around you, and not the one you want.

Think of all of the times in the past when things we understand as true today were also seen to be just as crazy. Things are always outrageous and ridiculous until enough people are enlightened. There are still supposedly sane people who say that cigarette smoke does no harm to the human body. That idea might have been believable in 1950 and common sense would tell you that was true since everyone smoked and they didn't seem to be having any problems (except for that pesky cough), but common sense today would tell you something different.




In that case, there would be photographs and reporters doing the job for you. You don't have to travel and waste a ton of time to check thigs out. And if someone has some wild ideas about any subject, you can take a few minutes to Google them and read a little of their work and then you can put it in the "B.S." pile or the "Who knows, it's possible?" pile. There is very little you can put in the "True" pile since what you think is true can change 20 years later.




That doesn't really seem to fit in with what I am talking about. Most sane people know that certain groups are dangerous and should stay away from them. The same with religious cults. If some guy wants you to give him all of your money and go live out in the woods with him and his followers, it's time to run in the other direction. You don't have to waste any time on his ideas.




If any of the various conspiracy theories about who controls things behind the scenes are true, you'll never know unless they have plans to do something in public that makes it glaringly obvious.




Have you listened to or read his explanation for how it could be possible? Or do you just have a glancing surface knowledge? Right now I put it in the "Who knows, it's possible?" pile. If you had resources to check out the claims for yourself and found out that the shape-shifting part is total B.S., that would not automatically mean that every bit of information that David Icke has is false. When someone is getting close to the truth, one of the best things you can do to discredit them is to provide them with disinformation. Muddy the waters so the truth can no longer be seen. Confuse them and lead them down wrong paths.

One of the reasons I have a hard time with the shape-shifting stuff is because these guys are aging fast. They look like crap. Can't they shape-shift a better look? Seems like you'd choose to have fewer wrinkles or less fat.




That makes you and others like you more dangerous than people such as David Icke. Have you heard the ever worsening 'music' that kids listen to? It's making every little white boy want to be a pimp and every little white girl want to be an abused 'ho.' Are you going to attack those music stars? What about Scientology? Don't you think they are more dangerous than David Icke could ever wish to be?

Cult leaders that want you to make drastic life changes such as giving away all of your possessions and moving to a new community of brainwashed nutwads are very dangerous. Anyone with half a brain should be able to recognize the warning signs. Parents that do not teach their kids about such things deserve whatever they get. That's much different from people who seem to have wacky ideas and just want to sell you a book or a video. So what if it's not true? Was it entertaining? Did it give you ideas to make your own video game, fiction book, or movie? Wacky ideas can be good for your imagination. I even have a page about it.




Religions such as Christianity provide help as a means to spread their propaganda. Many of their ideas are harmful. They wish to make you feel like you are separate from God. They want you to think that you are no good, that you are a wretch that needs saving. Most religions are a way to control the masses. They are just cults with more members. If you really take the time to look clearly at religion, you'll see a big ball of evil underneath that thin candy coating of goodness.

And I'm not saying that individual members are evil. Most have good intentions, it's just that they can't see the evil below the surface.




If you ask an atheist, he or she will tell you how crazy it is. An invisible man in the sky will reward you after death if you believe in Jesus and are a good little boy. If you don't believe, you'll burn in hell forever because God has unconditional love for you. Yep, that sounds sane. Not crazy at all. Doesn't sound any better than what David Icke and others like him have to say does it? Like most people, it seems you have been brainwashed to accept religious ideas as if they don't sound crazy. You seem to be afraid to take a hard look at sacred cows. Who's the pathetic coward?

And if you were an atheist that only believes in what your 5 senses tell you, you'd think that people who carry a severed foot from a dead rabbit their pocket for good luck are insane. A shoe from a smelly horse is good luck? Keep it pointing up or the luck will run out? Ridiculous! You'd think they'd need a lobotomy.

I believe in God, but I do not follow any religion. Some would call me crazy because they think anyone who believes in a being that always existed is nuts. They say everything has to have a beginning and an end. That's usually true. We see it all of the time, but we are only looking at things in the physical realm. Let's say that God always existed, then split himself/herself/itself into smaller parts that became us and then he/she/it created a virtual reality playground that we know of as this physical realm (the universe or multiverse) where we can come and experience things we cannot on the other side. The concept of beginning and ending was born with the creation of the physical realm. You can read more about that here.




Sounds kind of like the thinking that fuels 'witch' burning and book burning. We can't lock up or kill everyone we don't agree with. What an even darker time we'd be living in if you got your way. If things keep going the way they are, part of of what you wish for might come true:

http://www.opednews.com/lang040804_bush_ch...ian_fascism.htm

http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?s...page=britt_23_2

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1665.htm

The last video tells a more in depth picture of the Reptilians [chitauri/anunnaki] they are not from this world but so many stories of sea people who are cold blooded appear in ancient texts from Babylon to Egypt and even in South America how can you explain how Giant structures were built like Pyramids.

Monatomic gold...

Just a point of view of mine; having widely read in multitudal mythologies, and what I read of David Icke, I do believe what he wrote is according to what he experienced in his own spiritual advancement and they are real, lest to himself.

In chinese fairy tales, its very common and nothing out of ordinary for a snake, tortoise, weasel or fox to live to 100 years old and able to morph into human shapes, but they must first obtain the human essence, to say the vital energy of human, in order to morph into human. However they also need a dead human with undecomposed body to possess.

There's nothing strange to have lizards possessing human, for Satan also manifest as a type of reptilian being possessing human being. Anyway, if you think about it, what he said about Illuminali controlling the global economy and society, as well as policy, is really logical and enlightening, at least to me.

Simply to summarise or personally inteprete, Demons control human without the latter realising, not through physical means, but through the mind, ie. demons control you by desires, lusts, etc. From the top few 'cold-blooded' people, down to ordinary innocent citizens, such can be represented by the beheaded pyramid with the single eye at the very top.

I would categorise aliens and reptiles, also the likeness of imps and elves, fairies and many other kinds of inhuman beings as simply 'non-human'.

I am not sure on this.... everyone knows eastenders. I don't do soaps, but i saw dot cotton in the pilot show just to see how close to londers this show was going to emulate. dot cotton then... and dot cotton now. she was one of the oldest then and actuallu looks younger now. facelift / i don't know


it was mentioned as a joke in reverse first thAT CAROLINE VORDERMAN WORSHIPS LUCIFER ON SOME GAME SHOW...this was a five year old video.... the weird thing is...the day after i watched the videop i listened on radio a comment about her... coincidence.... i don't even watch that COUNTDOWN show....


can anybody remember when COUNTDOWN BEGAN, ten years ago.... 15.... looking at caroline today... does she look any older.... or is it pastic surgery ?


JK Rowling is another exacmple...

the problem is.... I canno tell if surgery or shapeshifiting is responsible...

maybe someone knows the effect of plastic surgery on a middle aged woman. ten-15 years later, would they then sag or look tight around the ears or what ?


one other point. we all have multiple blind spots in our eyes.... we decide much of what we sense because of what we see. seeing a cube desguised as a ball will effect what we touch sense as well as easily as altering by hallucigenics..


quote:::
Simply to summarise or personally inteprete, Demons control human without the latter realising, not through physical means, but through the mind, ie. demons control you by desires, lusts, etc. From the top few 'cold-blooded' people, down to ordinary innocent citizens, such can be represented by the beheaded pyramid with the single eye at the very top.


indeed totally i agree with you.... funny, these gouls have been attepting to squeeze the energy around the top of my head, down onto my third eye for weeks... their attempt to make me blind to whoever enters my house.... so stupid, I can still see...


reminds me of another thing.... imagine yourself staning infront of a dangerous animal.... the ability to reason with it fails, some big cats are telepathic so you can't easily hide your intent if you intent to bash the thing.... equally, the intelligence of that animal is only 2 dimensionnaly creative compared to you, think slowly and work more on fright than cleverness to suppress you.... I can fit most demons into this bracket .. greys are slow dumb and constantly make mistakes... as if some greater creatures gave them the technology, greys cannot build.... they can only supress or destroy.... the same for most gouls as well.

Even a lot of shapeshifting is done via electromagneticly effecting the mind of any onlooker, real shifters are of another class indeed.

The common enemy of abductors are merly rabbits in comparrison, numerous and annoying when they galavant all over the floorboards.... to strangle a grey is easy.... to entrap the parasite demons perhaps takes a tibetan monk or two unless someone has a method...

all I am saying is the mind set of these lower creatures is very low, animal like, usually dominate less when you fear them less.... except for the very big ones where only authority deals with them.

greys are poders, poorand useless without authority above them.... greys are perhaps similar to dogs....some dogs know how to read minds and control minds... this is fact though maybe only the japanese may believe me there....


The reptilians are nasty until harmony protects you... they again are only slaves, servants given powers they have not developed alone.

humans seem more important and creative the more i research the animals and decaying greys.... time to burn them i say, put them on the stake and light the fire.... this has been done and is being done in places where they are rife and commonly seen... there are many legends on how humanity has destroyed them though they, controlling the church have put a slow down on that... nasty disease they are... but there are others who shapeshift and do amazing things to reality. i have seen only a certain level but a lot..... and the only connection I see to the negative aliens in the amount of energy, prana, chi that is held in the body..... a much higher amount, hence no need for technology.....and i guess i am waffling on...

Which entities have you encountered?
Which ones scared you the most?
Describe them...


EDIT: I figured if you had some questions to answer, your reply would be easier to understand..

Are you talking about inventions such as the radio or car? In that case, only the uneducated saw this as incredible. After all, a man came up with the idea. Natural progression. Does not mean everything everyone ever thinks of is going to or does exsist.

Have you ever had a cigarette??????? First one makes you cough and splutter, but peer pressure (in most cases) keeps the pretense up untill it is a habit. You don't have a 'pesky cough' you cough up a lump of black crap entwined in mucus every morning. You lose fitness levels, breathing becomes an effort.
Believable that it does NO harm?? Only a person with no common sense would believe that. At any point in time.



No, their bosses would not be stupid enough to send them on such a waste of company funds. It would be better spent on a corporate lunch - at least relationships may be forged. If they did send reporters on stupid assignments like that they would be either out of business of fired for lack of common sense and rightfully so.

Around 75% of the world's population has never seen a telephone, how do you propose they "Google"?

Surely you see my point here - being thourough and wasting time.



It fits in exactly what you are talking about. My intention is not to rubbish you, this is obviously a side of the coin you had not previously considered. I hope to discuss this rationally.
The people I refer to often use UFO's and other off planet stories to entice the gullible and hopeful. There are many reasons why people get trapped in these nightmares. That does not give these animals the right to destroy lives for personal gain. As community it is our duty to expose these predators if we can.



Hey - you said it not me



Big word for so few letters.
If I win the lotto, I will buy an island and remove myself from the world so this wont concern me or my faqmily.
If the alien conspiracies are real, we will be rescued in 6 years
If people cared more about each other we would not need conspiracies
If the world comes under alien control I may form an insurgence
If Elle McPherson comes on to me I will not knock her back.
If if if. How about here and now. There is more than enough to keep the entire race busy for centuries with what we already know and have in our backyard. Lets leave the if's but's and maybe's out of it till we prove that aliens even exist hey? If the government is hiding something, all we should have to prove is the existance of one alien or craft. Now with them visiting every day, and living under us, should only be a matter of time and these conspiracy theories will all be proven.



Yes I have read this far fetched tripe, hard to discuss it intelligently unless ones does wouldn't you say?

So you have trouble with old shape shifters that can't shape shift into more fit and agile specimens (as you would if you had the ability). But the rest is true.

So David lies for profit and recognition on one 'claim' but all the other are genuine right? Right...........................................



How so?
Because I am protecting my immediate family from a predator that is very likely to cause harm? What the hell would an old alien hunter like David want to talk to my 2 kids - one cannot even talk yet!
No, I cannot agree with that. You think I should sit by and watch?????? What sort of a parent would I be???
If I had taken my chunk of water pipe to the leader for the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments there would be 153 more people alive now. They died for their gullibility.
Who is the dangerous one?



Actually, I spent 15 years of my life as a proffessional musician. I hear every type of music as I love and embrace music.
As a responsible parent, I don't allow that crap (Rap is spelt witha silent C isn't it?) in my house. Certainly nowhere near my children and infulence them with styles and and tastes more appropriate. If I could talk to those (well stars is a term we can use I suppose) I would show them the results of their rantings and ask how they feel knowing they are responsible for that. If they show no remorse, they should helped mentally, if that fails, they stand trial with any other person who poses a danger to society as a whole. I personally don't give a rodent's rectum how difficult it is for them "in da hood". (Does using that term make me cool now?) Does not look to difficult with all the bling bling hanging of them. Sell it and rent a unit if it is all that bad.

I think the church of Scientology is dangerous and needs to be publicly investigated. I see David Ickle to be just as dangerous.



So if a parent did not teach their child how to avoid a freak that could potentially maim them (possible because the parents were never exposed to that type of society - or didn't even realise such people existed) then they deserve to die. Nice. Very understanding of you. Serves the parent right you reckon - what about the dead child? Did that one 'get what's coming' as well for not recognising one of these freaks?

How is it different to someone approching you on the street as to approaching you through your favourite advertising medium? If you trust the product, you are even more likely to hve faith in it. How the point get across is not relevent, the message is.

There is nothing at all wrong with imagination. Without it we would never move forward. There is a place for this, and you are taking advantage of people around you if you attempt to portray a story you know to be a hoax as truth. Not on I'm afraid. Encourage imagination, discourage lying. Haven't you heard?? Lying's bad Mmmmmkay.



To steal a line from Madeyepixie - who spit in your oatmeal???
None of the above happens at my Church. Perhaps you ought to give it a go, just once to see what you are bagging. You are 100% wrong in every assumption you have made above. No propoganda - you go there because you want to. Nobody (from what I deem a respectful organisation) will aproach you in the street or attempt to force you in. They do not make one feel seperate from God - in fact the opposite. Where on earth did you get all this from? They boost confidence in individuals, I have seen it, they visit the sick in hospital, raise funds for the needy, gather food for the hungry and teach that life is precious. I have taken a very good look at several religions after my mother had many personal crisis between mariages when I grew up, and have had exposure to more faitrh's than the average person. In general, they wish to help others. I do not know where you have been to church, the above comments are nothing even similar to my life experiences.



And these good people controlled by evil influences - where is it you think they derive their values from?



An athiest simply has trouble with authority figures and cannot accept a higher being that may have more control.
Every athiest I have met to date has been no more than a rebellious teen that refuses to grow up (one particular waste of time I refer to is 46). I am sure this is not 100%of cases but it is my experience (about 30 or so in all). Any further than that, I am not qualified to make an opinion.
You dramatic rendition of heaven and hell are more along the lines of the vaunted imagination used to describe a visit to church. Talk to a religious leader. Do some of this research you are proud of having wasted on Ickle. Get both sides of the story, chuck away the rubbish and see what's left. That's what I do.

It is one heck of a far cry from David Ickle. I find it somewhat insulting to compare the two, and yes, if you need to stand on the Bible to be heard of you faith in David Ickle you are indeed a coward. A pathetic coward in fact. If you have anything genuine to report of that charlatan, do it without making refrence to religion. If your argument has merit it will stand by itself, shouldn't need to prop itself on a bible.

So you think I am brainwashed to accept religious ideas? Going of your above descriptions it sounds a lot more like you have been brainwashed against them. Your ideals and descriptions are grossly inaccurate.

I have no problem looking at sacred cows, just not interested in common donkey's all dressed up (in turquoise no less). A pathetic coward is one who lives by decieving other's - such as Ickle. My coward reference was directed at anyone who needs to use religion to bolster their argument. I covered this above. To me, it's kind of like getting some bullies together to pick on an individual you do not have the courage to face yourself. Can you see the point I am trying to get across here?



Superstitions. Quite different from theorising life force and the point of existance. We have developed from there. Eventually, they (superstitions) will no longer exist.
If you thought they needed a lobotomy, you would not be very understanding would you? I mean it is not like they are trying to get you to but and carry a rabbits foot, or make you understand the advantages of nailing up a horseshoe, or making you give them you money, or offering a better life on a distant planet - they are not affecting other individuals at all. Now if one of them came down the street swinging a machete..........



Well it is nice you have some faith. Try a few more respected religions and see what you think. Make your own desicion. Don't rely on what you read or Google. Religion is deeper than that. Experience is the best teacher. Not something you should theorise about yourself either. Some of these cultures go back thousands of years. Don't you thinkit a bit rude to make assumptions on all of them when you admit you have very little exposure? You are in effect becoming what you hate - a skeptic. Talk to someone with more experience, or study it yourself - in depth.
Please, do yourself a favour and give up jumping on every new idea and theory any whacko with a PC posts on the net. Even you and I can come up with a theory a day - it's easy. Let's have a better look at the one's that have been around for at least say - one thousand years. Get them out the way first.



Not at all. Once again, you have taken my sentiments to an extreme. If one has a point of view, fine, share it, if it has any merit or makes any sense, it will be recognised. If it is a half baked bit of rubbish someone though up over breakfast, it will be proven as that too. If you deliberatly go out and take advantage of people you share a society with, you do not deserve to be among them. How does that fuel witch or book buring?
I wish for a peacful world weher we have no poverty, racism, war or money and help each other. Yeah, I hope it comes true. Don't really care if reptillians or nordics form part of the equation.

Infinity, you still haven't answered my question

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