Was the truth about God changed in the past by the Devil to confuse and cause conflict for humankind forever?

If I were the devil, I would kill you JK Maybe, it's always a possibility. I don't think he has though, otherwise there'd probably be a bunch of *real* contradictions in the Bible.

TD, just playing along with the contradiction premis: the NT would not be full of contradictions to discredit if if the entire NT was the work of the devil! christians say that a false prophet would be loved and adored, people would worship him, etc. Sounds just like how people treated jesus.

So the answer is to decieve is to provide a false prophet that will lead people the way the pied piper led the rats to their doom.

So, you're saying that Jesus is deceiving us?
I can see where you're getting at with the false prophet thing though, kinda like that prophet yaweh guy?

I think I would chuck evil in for a good steak meal, bottle of wine and good movie!

That'd fool em! lmao

"the devil works in mysterious ways"... sorry, thats "the lord works in mysterious ways" (remeber i classify them as two faces of the same entity)...

i don't think jesus intended to deceive anybody, but:

either he could have been deceived by a "big nasty" - remember this is all hypothetical both in the sense of i don't think a "godly voice talked to him", and i don't have any clue what jesus was thinking or "hearing" (supernatural or not).

or

the people that followed him were decieved by this "big nasty", which led to the "false idolatry" and deification of jesus (remember my view is that jesus was only a man, and a philosopher) - again this is all hypothetical.

I think I would go on line and go to a site called Unexplained-Mysteries. Tell everyone my name is Darkwind.

Trick them into hope, love and family only to lose it all...

Easy I would tell them the truth They would not believe me and just do the opposite of what I say cause who would listen to me if I'm the devil.

Oh man, if I were the devil I would have an absolute blast.

Since evil is absolutely necessary, I would have no remorse creating destruction and mayhem.. but only enough to make myself know of course.

If I were the devil, I would make people write books with beliefs systems in them (Bible, Koran, Torah etc ...). After this, I would just sit back and laugh.

I know it's cliche, but if I were the devil I'd do everything in my power to convince the world that I do not exist. People would then live their lives totally oblivious to the consequences of their actions, then when they die................ THEY'RE MINE MWUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Seeing as I would know God does not make himself peronsally known in this world I would take control of the largest institution claiming to speak his word, The Catholic Church, and use that a base to create evil and mayhem safe in the knowledge that every bad deed I do is perceived as Gods work.

Easy.

If I were the devil, I would invent Judaism and then later I would pick some Jewish rebel, promote him extensively, convince some mental basket cases that he was the Messiah (even though he didn't meet any of the criteria that I had put in the scriptures I dictated to men) and started Christianity, then after Christianity was instrumental in causing the fall of the Roman Empire and the start of the Dark Ages, I would stir the pot a little more by inventing Islam and making it where it hated Judiasm and Christianity and they hated it. Oh, wait! That's what's already happened - Hmmmmmm :

Mights thoughts exactly Mako!

The Devil's greatest deception when he convinced Abraham that he was a good guy and that Lucifer was the evil one.........

If Jews, Christians and Moslems were really Devil worshippers it'd make far more sense of their constant warring.

I would do what has already been done. It seems to work well enough in this world. Just wait 100 more years.

Excellent answers everyone! I got many of the answers I was hoping to get. So now that we know how the devil might be doing it, fooling humankind, how the heck do we stop the rascal from his general messing up sh*t and stuff?

Well since I know how that feels, I'd say I already know the devil pretty good.

The easiest answer to this is:

Grow up and stop believing in supernatural boogie men. Learn to stand and fall on your own two feet, and take responsibitiy for your actions and choices.

Assuming of course that Satan hasn't got his claws into the Bible, we simply study it and see how we can recognize the devil and his workings.

If Satan has gotten into the Bible, well, we're screwed

All the best,

The greatest trick the devil played on mankind, is convince them he never existed.

If i was the devil, i would do the same thing.

The greatest trick of the devil was to convince everyone he does not exist?

Wow! You don't give the ol' horned one his credit. If he is an entity that is capable of great deception, then that is what he would want you to think; that he is trying to make you think that he wants you to believe he doesn't exist. So in fact you will continue to think he exists.

Why?

I believe to keep his power over people. You believe in the existence of a Satan then you give power to Satan and power over you by Satan.

If you believe in a devil that is the cause of all the evil in the world, then you are in fact not seeing the reality of where the evil is coming from. When people realize that it is humans that cause evil in the world, then they may truly begin to correct their behavior and stop evil from continuing.
A devil would not want us to come to that realization. Maybe that is what it is all about. Humans reaching that understanding so that we can create a more loving world.

W.S said it best, "Evil does not exist unless I think it so."

"The best trick the devil ever pulled was to make everyone think he dosen't exist" -- Keyser Söze

Fantastic answer.

If I was the Devil and wanted to fool humanity, I would [Well, its already happened] fool humanity into thinking they must follow a prophet, leader, or god to find strength and prosper. I would know that everyone can find the same strength within themselves that they find in God. The Devil is a very cunning man.

But knowing that we know he's capable of great deception, he'd make us think he doesn't exist by faking that he does while everyone really thinks he isn't. Right?

You know, this can just spiral out of control completely

BFG
If you believe that a devil wants us to think it doesn't exist then what would be the point of that? No one would blame evil on a devil so people would have to see that it must stem from some other source. What would they choose to be that source? If they are honest enough and not too mentally deranged, then they will see that it comes from within themselves. Where else would it derive from? That would or should make most humans become more responsible for their actions.

Try not believing in a devil, it is very liberating!

Because I don't believe in a devil, I can't see evil anywhere else but in humans; and I feel more spiritual because of it. Kind of like if you take all the humans off the planet, where is the evil? It left with the humans because it is created by the humans.

I am not generalizing and saying all people are evil. And evil or bad has many degrees. We just have different levels that we each will allow ourselves to perform.

So, if the Devil really exists, chances are he's behind orgainsued religion and wrote the Bible etc to fool us........ In which case to defeat him we need do no more than embrace atheism

Unless, of course, this whole thread is itself just a devilish trick - Boris! Have you got a tail and cloven hooves for feet?

No trick up my sleeve. I feel personally, that we all should focus the blame for the wrong in the world on the right source. Us.

I guess I feel kind of frustrated that people won't accept responsibility for their actions these days. Which I have seen as a trend slowly heading more and more that way during my lifetime and it is quite disturbing.

Religions make it too easy for us to put the blame elsewhere. Like for example, we are all infidels in the US; snakes of the world. Why? Because western life is spreading globally and countries that hold tightly to tradition feel it is corrupting them and their lifestyle. Not that anything could be possibly wrong with their lifestyle. Oh Nooooooooo!!! Oppression is good for human beings, right?

So I am going to pound away at the foundations of religious dogma until it cracks to pieces; like it should. Then we will truly open up the world to a more forward thinking, spiritual society.

It is easy to beat the devil at his own game all you have to do is be a good person do not hate, fear , lust or lie, help others when you can believe GOD gave his son for us and do the right things because they are right that way when the day come for you to stand and be counted you will have alot less to explain! that is what i believe any way,

Isis - 999

May I say that you are wonderful?!!

If I were the Devil and I wanted to fool mankind, I would allow them to continue to believe there is a heaven...

If i was the devil i would make prank phone calls to everyones house around dinner time.

~Thanato

If I were the Devil, What would I do to fool mankind? This is a hard question to even keep straight. The Devil is a very dear friend of mine. And He has done a splendid job of fooling mankind. I guess I would do just what He did seeing it has worked for thousands of years.

I would not let you know who I am. I would not even let Jesus know who I am (For awhile that is)

I would make Myself the Father of Lies. Using a similitude for a prophecy being a lie till fulfilled, and not Truth TILL it is fulfilled.

(1KINGS 22:22) And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said,
I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all
his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail
also: go forth, and do so. (KJV)
(1KINGS 22:23) Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying
spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath
spoken evil concerning thee. (KJV)

I would have Jesus tell the Jews, They are of their Father the Devil. Not even Jesus knowing that He is really saying they are Sons of the Living God.

(HOSEA 1:10) Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as
the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it
shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them,
Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the
sons of the living God. (KJV)

I would make those with Judas likened to a wall in Revelation 21:17. 144 of them, and liken them to angels. Then ask Jesus to cast Himself down, Jesus not knowing it is to allow them to take Him, afflict Him, and in their hands bear Him upon a cross at Golgotha.

I would have James tell people that God does not tempt, But tell Moses I do. So let God be true, and even James a liar.

(GENESIS 22:1) And it came to pass after these things, that God did
tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold,
here I am. (KJV)

I would ask Jesus to command the Stones to be made bread, and mean to fulfill all the prophecies, To Fall down and worship Me, meaning to allow Himself to die. And Jesus resisting would lead all mankind to think the Devil has to be resisted.

So they would resist the Devil and He would have to flee, But Jesus is the One who I would require to flee when they resist the Devil.


(PSALMS 11:1) In the Lord put I my trust: how say ye to my soul,
Flee as a bird to your mountain? (KJV)

I would also give a lot of hints in doing this. I would show the Lord as He Hiss in Isaiah just to make people wonder.

I would have Jesus liken Himself to a Serpent on a Pole, I would have the Holy Spirit come down as cloven tongues at Pentecost. Giving them what they need, But what they are afraid to consider.

And when they see the Hiss, I will even add Hints to Hints.

(JOB 37:2) Hear attentively the noise of his voice, and the sound
that goeth out of his mouth. (KJV)

I will even show them flat out Who I really Am. Knowing I have made them too afraid to look.

(MATTHEW 12:22) Then was brought unto him one possessed with a
devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind
and dumb both spake and saw. (KJV)

(EXODUS 4:11) And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's
mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the
blind? have not I the Lord? (KJV)

I will allow Jesus to command Me. So they think I am under Jesus, and Not His Father.

(ISAIAH 45:11) Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his
Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning
the work of my hands command ye me. (KJV)

I would hide the Word of God under the name of Satan, So that Satan desires to sift Peter:

(AMOS 9:9) For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of
Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet
shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. (KJV)

I would liken a conversation between God and Satan, Where God says to Satan, that He moved God against Job without a cause, Having already stated in God’s words, “I try the hearts and reigns of men.” So Satan or God’s word did move God, He said it, now He does it.

Fool mankind? He has. The Devil is God’s Holy name. And He is my Friend.

(PSALMS 99:3) Let them praise thy great and terrible name; for it
is holy. (KJV)
(ISAIAH 45:15) Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of
Israel, the Saviour. (KJV)

All mankind is saved by grace. Hell was a place of sleep till Jesus died for sin. They all left with Jesus. Consider yourselves fooled quite well.

Ken

Another great but wrong post my friend! You're simply taking those quotes out of context. When studying the bible, you've got to understand old english and the way things are phrased. They meant differently then than they do now! For example, Somewhere in the Old Testament (KJV), it talks about King David and after a war, he gathered prisoners and the text says, "He put them to the saws and axes." It might sound like he sawed and axed them to death, but what it means is that he put them to work.

If I were Satan, I would spend a lot of time throughout history creating new and different gods. I am nothing but a fallen angel and could've easily started many religions just by appearing to someone...maybe like Mohammed. Then Jesus comes to earth and dies for all humanity, so I create a church that would confuse Jesus' message and deny the real and only way to salvation, like the catholic church has done for centuries. And then, later, as science and technology developed, I would make the world think, "Hey, there really is no God. We all evolved from non-living material and this time, we have proven scientific methods to back us up. Now that I have science backing me up that we evolved, I'm going to create a little hoax called aliens. Knowing that Jesus will one day come back to rapture His church, the humans will be fooled into believing that aliens abducted them. What a great hoax! And now, because of evolution, the idea of aliens is much more believable!

Saucy.

Cute but no cigar. It would be bad for you to smoke anyway.

The Devil, even if He were that evil being mankind thinks, He is can not unsave you. Sorry but the works of Golgotha are a finished work.

Also, the Saws and Axes are understood to mean they were put to labor.

“Knowing that Jesus will one day come back.”? What Bible have you been reading? The KJV says He will not be coming back.

(JOHN 14:19) Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more;
but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. (KJV)

(JOHN 16:10) Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye
see me no more; (KJV)

The Rapture was part of the Old Testament prophecies concerning Jesus. Sorry, they were fulfilled at Calvary.

When Jesus took the sin of the world, the Dead were raised. Understand the Meaning?

(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)

(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I
have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.
(KJV)

(ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body
shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy
dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)

Those Old Testament prophecies all concern Jesus, all fulfilled. The Dead rose WITH JESUS.

(LUKE 18:31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them,
Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by
the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (KJV)

Wow, Ken, you must not really read the New Testament much.

If I were the Devil I wouldn't feel the need to fool with the Church, history, or any of that. I wouldn't even even have to try and get people to disbelieve in God..
If anything I'd use any tool in my repertoire to re-inforce that belief, by creating a sign or miracle or prophecy here and there..
The point is, I'd do whatever it takes to get Christians to believe they're absolutely correct in thier every belief with no glimmer of doubt in thier mind..The resulting monstrosities commited in the act of faith unchecked by self-doubt would not only damn Christians, but also turn away many possible new worshippers of Jehovah and Jesus...
Seems to working so far..

Unfortunately, you are right. The history of Christianity (or at least Catholicism) is a bloody and spiteful one.

But it's history. It's in the past and we have no control over that. What we do have control of though (limited as it may be)is the future though. Learn from the atrocities committed in the past. Ensure that such evil is not repeated in the future.

All the best,

Saucy.

I read the New Testament a lot. But I also read the Old Testament to know what the Jots and tittles Jesus had to fulfill are. Daniel had to be fulfilled, Jeremiah, Isaiah, But not Peter, John, Paul. They often guessed what Jesus had accomplished, Often guessed wrong.


Falco Rex.

You are making a few assumptions. You assume God’s grace is not sufficient, You assume Jesus did not take away the sin of the world. You assume salvation was left in the hands of mankind, and you assume Daniel 9:24 was not fulfilled where Jesus makes an end of sin, and brings in everlasting righteousness.

God said all Souls are His, He holds the title. And if you look real close at people you see a “Not for Sale.” sign on them, Signed by Jesus Christ.

Ken

Actually Ken, you're making a few assumptions there yourself..
You're assuming the Bible is 100% true; you're assuming your God is the only one; and you're assuming that he controls the fate of every soul..
Hell, you're even pre-supposing the existance of souls in the first place..
You may, of course, say "Those aren't my assumptions, those are my beliefs..My Faith" but basically what is a belief but an assumption backed up with personal conviction?

Falco Rex.

The Bible is not 100% true. The Old Testament prophecies God inspired and their fulfillment is truth. God sealed the Jewish Nation from seeing Jesus is the Christ so they would not know what the truth is, and He also sealed the Disciples and Paul from seeing many things, Like sin ended as accountable unto man at Golgotha. And that the Righteousness of Christ was placed upon all mankind, Even those yet to be conceived.

There is One God. He proves Himself. He tells what will happen before He does it. That includes the Creation story. It was not done till what is known as Good Friday, 29 ad. The Old Testament prophecies is a pre written history book. That is to the jot and tittle. and there are a lot of jots and tittles yet to be seen by mankind. But all were fulfilled the day of the cross.

God has foretold the fate of all souls, and all belong to Him.

I do not know of any other so called gods which have proved themselves. Even to the squealing of a bird.

Peter said he would not deny Jesus, That is not what he did, He did deny Jesus, and was cursing as he did it. and the bird squealed on him. One of those little jots.

(ECCLESIASTES 10:20) Curse not the king, no not in thy thought; and
curse not the rich in thy bedchamber: for a bird of the air shall
carry the voice, and that which hath wings shall tell the matter. (KJV)

(MATTHEW 26:74) Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know
not the man. And immediately the c*** crew. (KJV)

(LUKE 22:60) And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And
immediately, while he yet spake, the c*** crew. (KJV)
(LUKE 22:61) And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter
remembered the word of the Lord, how he said unto him, Before the
c*** crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. (KJV)

I had to pull out of Matthew and Luke. Had they known the prophecy they would have had Peter cursing as he denied Jesus, the c*** crowing, and Jesus hearing the c*** crow turned and looked on Peter as the Bird just told Him that Peter was cursing Jesus in his thoughts. Which he was.

Add hundreds of these jots and tittles all fulfilled and I think there is more then an assumption. Not bad, over 40 different writers, over 1500 years of different testimony, all fulfilled in one day. Cute trick. Unless you happen to be God. Every event, even being in hell and the resurrection was fulfilled on Good Friday. The next two days were future similitudes for events which were already fulfilled. That goes into a little detail, But it all was completed by God.

Ken

Don't blame just the Catholics....All flavors of Christianity has committed atrocities around the world and throughout the past 1700 years, the Native American with vouch for that, the African will vouch for that, the "heathen Chinee" will vouch for that, the Vietnamese Buddhist will vouch for that and the Muslim in the Balkans will vouch for that (and that is to name just a few)! The history of Christianity is far bloodier that even the Druids at least they only practiced human sacrifice, not genocide as the Christians have attempted around the world!

You just had to come in and stir the pot, didn't you Mako

I was speaking specifically of the crusades and other acts of genocide. We speak of the Dark Ages and the atrocities committed during that time, right? Is it also right to say that the Dark Ages were before the reformation and thus all there was was the Catholic church?

But regardless of whether we talk of the crusades, or other acts, the point I was making is the past is the past. We cannot change our past, just learn from it

All the best,

Unfortunately, our past is not over yet. Ever heard of the Balkans? They've been fighting there since Yugoslavia fell apart, does that ring a bell. Heard of "ethnic cleansing"? Still going on, the Christians are killing the Muslims as fast as they can and the UN and US are barely slowing them down. I was there a decade or so ago and as I have said before, I held the body of a four year old in my arms that had been executed along with her village, for simply being Muslim! NIce! The troops that did it were caught and they believe that their religion demands the death of the muslims! It is still going on! Just because the American version has calmed down for now, doesn't change anything. Like a sleeping tiger, you never know when it will awaken and how hungry it will be when it does!

Although that last paragraph was quite well crafted, I don't think Falco Rex was trying to disprove your God.

By saying that your God is the only God and his books are Law, you are restricting yourself to a narrow, and ignorant view of the world. Other Gods and Goddesses may or may not exist -- the issue isn't if they exist or not, it's simply the possibility that one thing may not be the truth, and one other thing may be, not taking a side on either, simply stating the possibility.

If you don't learn about ALL Gods, Goddesses, and religions, even those you deem corrupt, immoral, and "Satanic," you are once again restricting your view to a narrow, ignorant view of the world. Learning about your "enemy" so to speak is just as good as learning about yourself, or in this case, God. Always know facts from every side of the fight, and even if it's Satanism itself, don't be afraid to venture in and learn everything you can.

That is why your God very well may be the only God, and the right God, but you have to accept the possibility that you are entirely wrong otherwise you might come off a tad ignorant, not to mention arrogant.

Raven.

God has used Ravens quite often in Scripture. Hopefully He is using you.

A Narrow, Ignorant view is acceptable unto me. As long as it is a correct view. There is no better place to hide wisdom, then inside ignorance.

When you use the words “His books are law.” I see the word Law as being just what is real. Not a set of rules which must be followed now by mankind. For the Fulfillment of that LAW is grace which we now have. The Law was just to establish Grace upon mankind.

The issue is other gods and goddesses. Very much so. This is not 5 billion different views, 5 billion different gods. It is One God, and One body of people. What one does effects the others.

God is not pushy, He has given us freewill. We can go any way we want. His love is not effected by our direction. His grace is not effected by our direction. Our end feelings will be effected by our direction. And we will have to live with it, No going back and changing things. Love or hate, caring or killing. We will always remember.

You can be in heaven with all the love of God, all the riches for eternity (Not talking gold, the streets are paved with Gold because we discard it.) But you have your memories. and that might seem like a personal hell within you. I try to get people to avoid that from ever happening.

You can hate God and chose your goddess or other gods, But who are you kidding? God knows you don’t believe it, I know you don’t believe it, and if you look close inside, You know you don’t believe it.

Satanism? Cute. Do you think it is really something? Can someone join up with Satan? I suggest you give Satan your whole heart. Spend as much time with Satan as you can. Satan being a person is a Similitude. God telling Satan that he had moved Him against Job without a cause is because God’s word says He tries the hearts and reigns of people so He does as He has said He would. It is God’s word which moved God against Job without a cause.

Cause or not, Job gets tested. Not so God knows, So Job knows.

Satan even desired to sift Peter. God’s word says He will sift Peter, and all Israel. And lose nothing.

(AMOS 9:9) For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of
Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet
shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. (KJV)

Want to try a man possessed with a Devil?

(MATTHEW 12:22) Then was brought unto him one possessed with a
devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind
and dumb both spake and saw. (KJV)

Now, Who is this Devil?

(EXODUS 4:11) And the Lord said unto him, Who hath made man's
mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the
blind? have not I the Lord? (KJV)

God’s working both sides of the fence. He owns both teams. You want to hate God, Go join the Devil. No problem. Be a witch. kid yourself in any way. You are still His, His love for you has not stopped, nor will it ever. and in Heaven, You will only have your own mind as an enemy.

Hell was just a place of sleep till Jesus died for sin, Jesus took them all Home on the third day. And that is REALITY.

Not to mention Arrogant? I think you did mention it. Arrogant is covered by grace, No problem there either, and I do not keep my Ego in a cage. Bald headed Ego by the way.

Most of the problems we have in this world is because we do not want to know what is real. We might have some responsibility to others. They are freewill ones. But we will at least know what we should be doing.

Heathens are part of the Body of Christ, Moslems are part of the Body of Christ. Saddam is part of the Body of Christ. Hitler is part of the Body of Christ (Body is alive and well in Heaven also) Christians are part of the Body of Christ.

Now, Who do you think feels better, Hitler or Mother Theresa? (spelling?) Who do you think loveth Him more?

(LUKE 7:42) And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave
them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? (KJV)
(LUKE 7:43) Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he
forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. (KJV)

A body seems to function better if all the parts work together. And we are all created in His Image, and His Image is the Body of Christ.

Ken

make you think i didn't exsist.

There are few things that annoy me more than bible thumping preachers, so zealously wrapped up in their beliefs that not only do they believe it wholeheartedly, they're so unbelievably deluded that they think everyone else secretly does too

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