Count the Bullets: Blow Away All Arguments

by Douglas Herman



“I believe that no discovery of fact, however trivial, can be wholly useless to the race, and that no trumpeting of falsehood, however virtuous in intent, can be anything but vicious. I believe that all government is evil, in that all government must necessarily make war upon liberty.” ~ H.L. Mencken



Regular readers of STR know me as an avowed JFK-9-11 conspiracy freak. Indeed, I devoutly believe the same sort of people who conspired to kill Kennedy—wealthy, well-protected elites, war lovers and imperialists--also conspired to mastermind and thus profit from the events of 9-11.



Most of us who write for STR presently own guns, have shotguns, or received weapons training while in the US military. As a teenager, I owned shotguns and rifles, a semi-automatic .22 with 4x scope, was briefly a member of the NRA and an enthusiast at the local gun club. Later, I earned a sharpshooter ribbon with a weapon I had never shot before, the M-16, as a US Air Force trainee.



Perhaps the greatest reason many Americans believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone and killed Kennedy is that a majority of Americans have never shot any guns, and certainly not a rifle with a scope. If the Warren Commission had been composed of unbiased shooters instead of senators and lawyers, the final verdict would likely have rejected the ludicrous assumption that Oswald acted alone. The “trumpeting of falsehood, however virtuous in intent,” was indeed a vicious lie, supported by the government then and now.



A Shooter Looks At The Shot Heard ‘Round The World



Recently I finished reading the definitive book (which I highly recommend) on the obviously, government-sanctioned, JFK assassination. Written from the unique perspective of a professional shooter, "Kill Zone: A Sniper Looks at Dealey Plaza," not only demolishes all the arguments of lone-assassin proponents, but examines the myriad reasons why Kennedy was killed.



“The reason I knew that Oswald could not have done it, was because I could not have done it,” said former US Marine sniper, Craig Roberts. Credited with numerous kills while serving in Vietnam , Roberts turned an objective eye on the shot heard ‘round the world. After he visited Dealey Plaza, after viewing the so-called “sniper’s lair,” on the sixth floor of the book depository, and after staring at the large oak tree overspreading much of Elm Street, Roberts said, “I walked away from the window in disgust. I had seen all I needed to know that Oswald could not have been the lone shooter.”



But Roberts, a retired police investigator, wanted to know what did happen. Not content to dismiss the improbable feat, he delved into the crime from every angle.



“First, I analyzed the scene as a sniper . . . I looked at the engagement angles. It was entirely wrong…Here, from what I could see, three problems arose that would influence my shots. First, the target was moving away at a drastic angle to the right from the window, meaning that I would have to position my body to compete with the wall and a set of vertical water pipes . . . This would be extremely difficult for a right-handed shooter. Second, I would have to be ready to fire exactly when the target emerged past some tree branches that obscured the kill zone. Finally, I would have to deal with two factors at the same time; the curve of the street, and the high-to-low angle formula—a law of physics Oswald would not have known.”



Not content with his own critical appraisal, Roberts turned to another, equally knowledgeable shooter. “According to my friend, Gunnery Sergeant Carlos Hathcock, the former senior instructor for the US Marine Corps Sniper Instructor School at Quantico, Virginia, it could not be done as described by the FBI investigators.”



“Let me tell you what we did at Quantico,” Hathcock recalls. “We reconstructed the whole thing: the angle, the range, the moving target, the time limit, the obstacles, everything. I don’t know how many times we tried it, but we couldn’t duplicate what the Warren Commission said Oswald did. Now if I can’t do it, how in the world could a guy who was a non-qual on the rifle range and later only qualified 'marksman' do it?”



Of course, sergeant Carlos Hathcock was only the most famous American military sniper in history, credited with a confirmed 93 kills. But apologists for a lone assassin, who continue to enjoy mainstream media sponsorship 40 years later, continue to argue that an average shooter like Oswald, using a decrepit, war surplus weapon, could have killed Kennedy. Case closed.



Count The Bullets: Blow Away All Arguments



But suppose we took a moment to examine the OBJECTS STRUCK rather than focus on the sound of gunfire witnesses claimed to have heard. Anyone who has seen the original film version of “The Day of The Jackal” realizes that a sniper rifle equipped with a silencer and flash suppressor may be virtually soundless.



1. The first shot strikes the street, sending sparks behind Kennedy's car. Almost unanimous agreement that this first shot--unbelievably--misses everything. Was this Oswald's first and only diversionary shot from the sniper's lair?



2. A second shot strikes a curb near the railroad overpass, wounding bystander James Tague on the cheek. Another shot reportedly gouges a hole in a curb along the north side of Elm, which is hastily patched in an effort to cover the evidence. (Some of these snipers seem to be either rank amateurs or reluctant assassins).

3. A third shot strikes a manhole cover and lodges in the grass. A group of policemen safeguard the site and an unidentified man removes the projectile and pockets it. A report of the find is recorded in newspaper accounts the following day and then denied by government officials.

4. A fourth shot strikes JFK in the back, well below the collar, four inches down from the nape of the neck and well to the right of his spine (John F. Kennedy Autopsy Photos). According to Dallas surgeons, the bullet did not enter deeply.



5. A fifth shot, from the front, strikes JFK in the throat. For the fourth and fifth shots to be connected, as all lone assassin apologists claim, Oswald would have needed to shoot Kennedy from ground level. Trajectory angles eliminate the possibility otherwise. Likewise, the shallow depth of the back wound precludes a rational argument for a through-and-through bullet wound. Noted pathologist, Cyril Wecht, in his 1993 book, Cause of Death, called the Warren report "absolute nonsense" and Specter's single-bullet theory "an asinine, pseudoscientific sham at best."



6. A sixth shot strikes the windshield of the limo, penetrating the glass. "The presidential limousine, which had a bullet hole in the windshield, witnessed by two Dallas police officers, Sergeant Stavis Ellis and Patrolman H.R. Freeman, who saw it in the parking lot of the emergency room at Parkland, and by journalist Richard Dudman--made by a bullet from the front...noted the hole 'just left of center' in the windshield," wrote Craig Roberts in Kill Zone. "According to Ellis, it was not chipped glass at Parkland he saw. 'You could put a pencil through it.'"



7. A seventh shot strikes the chrome trim strip of the limo's windshield. Arguably, this could well have been a fragment since the projectile did not penetrate the light metal. Gerald Posner, writing in Case Closed, wrote that over 60 grams of fragments were recovered from inside the limo. That is a hell of a lot of fragments.



8. An eighth shot strikes a sign along Elm. "The freeway sign, which had a bullet hole through it that came from the direction of the Grassy Knoll, quickly disappeared," said former sniper, Roberts.



9. A ninth shot strikes Texas Governor John Connelly. Lone assassin apologists, like Arlen Specter, John McAdams, William Manchester and Gerald Posner, true believers in magic bullets and lapses in time, short on common sense, gunmanship, and trajectory angles, claim that a single shot wounded Kennedy and Connelly. Due to trajectory angles from the sixth floor--approximately 17 degrees, depending on the placement of the limo on the street below--a bullet entering and exiting Kennedy would strike Connelly in the lower left hip, if it hit him at all.



10. A tenth shot. The fatal shot to the brain of Kennedy--and a mortal blow to the republic. "There was no question about it; John F. Kennedy had been shot from the right front," said veteran sniper Roberts. "How in the world could anyone look at that film and say that the fatal head strike had come from the rear? The so-called experts . . . had obviously never served in combat, where witnessing high-velocity bullet strikes was commonplace."



So let us count the OBJECTS STRUCK. (1) street (2) curb (3) manhole cover (4) JFK's back (5) JFK's throat (6) windshield (7) trim strip (8) street sign (9) Connelly (10) JFK's head. Additionally, we heard reports of a shot striking a curb along Elm, which was hastily covered up. Could Oswald--according to the Lone Assassin Theory--have struck all of these objects in six seconds? Not unless he was armed with an automatic rifle and a dozen bullets.



And so the fallacy of three shots doing all this damage, may join all the other fallacies perpetrated by the sinister enemies of the republic. As Mencken said, "All government is evil, in that all government must necessarily make war upon liberty." Thus, while the gloves of government control the reins of propaganda, the evident truth will forever be denied, suppressed, or distorted by highly paid scribes like Posner, and highly placed government lackeys like Specter. Ten shots to the brain of the republic--Count 'em!

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We all know Oswald was a hired stooge (DUH!) but they probably made him do it then killed him so he wouldn't talk.

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Every new generation has to be taught what is already known by the other older generations. Just doing my civic duty to get the truth out. Cheers.

Great find I think this (in my mind) pretty much rules out the lone gunman theory. Now all we need to find out is who actually committed it.

Most evidence points to the enemy within our own country...his assassination was carried out with extreme precision from the act itself all the way to the cover story that some guy named Oswald did it. Which did appear in a New Zealand Newspaper 24 hours before the rest of the world got it. Oswalds whole life story. The perpetrators must have forgotten the time zone element when they planted the story.

The navys autopsy proved to be faked as early as 1992.

Not everyone in our government is on the same side and not everyone who makes important decisions of direction is a politician. Basically privateers who have a major interest in intelligence activities, gun running, supporting dictatorships worldwide...what we are told in the news is we are democratizing but the truth is these people are stealing resources from other countries and supporting proxy wars. It is said that if we knew the truth of the whole conspiracy it would bring down the establishment. Jack Ruby said it before he died .

o.k. i do not believe the goverment is as bad as you think Bush and others have not been going around the world for the last ten years or so blowing up things, with that said i also do not believe Oswald killed Kennedy, Johnson and others did that; this is what i think; Kennedy wanted to pull out of the war a war that was making alot of people big money,even the drug lords were doing very well the maffia was also doing very well and when they thought Kennedy was going to bring our men home they had to stop him, there was no way Oswald could have fired those shots at the point of entery which told Kennedys life

Essentially what you said is true...except you do not realise what the Bush family history is...its relevant in the Kennedy case because GHW Bush was in the Bay of Pigs area at that time...the boats he owned for Operation Zapata were called the Houston and the Barbara...coincidence?

Look up Orlando Bosch...right -wing cuban terrorist blew up a polish frieghter in a Miami harbor. He was caught but guess who got him off? Brother of George w Bush. They protected a terrorist. Remember E Howard Hunt? He worked for Averell Harriman . The Harrimans and the Bushs were involved in dirty business with IGFARBEN during WW2. The two fami;lies are in the inner circle of military, intelligenceand business affairs.

This right here makes his authority on the subject dubious. First of all it's redundant; a silencer also acts as a flash suppressor. Two, unless the shooter was using subsonic ammunition witnesses would have heard the passage of the bullet as it broke the sound barrier. You can get that information on the internet; it's no secret. And third, he's citing a movie as a source of technical information. Come on.

And at 77 yards, the elevation means little. That police investigator/sniper who's quoted in the article knows that.

I simply refuse to believe that Carlos Hathcock said that he couldn't hit a target at 77 yards with a scoped rifle. Hathcock engaged targets in Vietnam at four to five hundred yards with a run-of-the-mill M-14 with iron sights. He hit targets at 800 yards with his sniper rifle. 77 yards is nothing. And if he did say it, there was something wrong with his methodology. Oswald's feat has been recreated more than once with the same kind of rifle, same angle, in the alloted time. It wasn't some great feat of marksmanship. He'd been in the Marines; they teach you how to shoot at moving targets there.

But he wasnt anything but a radar operator! If his feat of shooting at 77 yards was remarkable then that suggests it would have to have been done by someone with experience. He wasn't in any battles...he worked with radar...not sniper rifles...that is history right there. In Russia he worked at an Electronics firm in the White Russian city of Minsk. Nowhere in his history does it suggest he was anything but ordinary with guns...in spite of his bootcamp training a long time before supposedly shooting Kennedy. In Atsugi,Japan where he was stationed, he worked with Radar. Redneck you should know this stuff too.

I believe he was assasinated by the government, not the forefront, media government that we see before us today such as Bush and Blair, but by a darker government who wanted him out, the same way as other historic fugures. An interesting read, thank you.

Follow the money...the WW2 dirty money made with Nazi Germany by Wall St men of power...huge banking houses...Rockefeller, Warburg, Dillon, Robert Lovett...

these men controlled the CIA...Prescott Bush worked for these men...GHW Bush was a CIA covert-ops leader at the time...thats how he and Felix Rodriguez became such good freinds. Felix was a right-wing anti Castroite who oversaw the execution of Che Guevara on behalf of the CIA, later Felix was a Watergate burglar, in the 1980 he flew drugs to America form Central America to help raise money for the CONTRAS. He was investigated by the Kerry Committee. WHen his plane was shot down he had a phonebook with the number of GHW Bush inside it and there is a photo of the two together taken sometime in the mid-80's.

Spycat, as always your posts are well thought out and respectable; the subjects you choose to discuss are quite valid. Good read. Great find. I will say, however, that it is amazing what can be hit with a rifle through concentration and meditation. Now I'm no marksman and I have no military training but I am an idiot savant with a gun. Turns out, I can hit just about any target, moving or not.
I don't believe in the lone gunman theory either; I'm just saying give me a rifle with a scope and drive away, turn left, let's see what I can hit.

Lol girty...Ive never shot one in my life...as long as I can remember anyway.

You should try it out, at a closed shooting range of course. Shooting is quite fun and I never really did it, not since I was kid, until last fall. I am really good. Can I please hunt you for sport?

Yes but send me a picture of you first, as I don't like blind dates, sport.

There are several in my blog; have a lookie.

So who DO you think shot Kennedy?

All Marines are trained as riflemen, even the ones in support roles. Cooks, mechanics, radar operators, whatever. Shooting at 77 yards is not that remarkable. Marines shoot out to 500 yards in qualification. Although I should add that it is not at a man-sized silhouette at that distance but a 3 foot diameter bullseye.

IIRC:

A lot of people point to the disparity in Oswald's qualification scores as evidence that he wasn't a good shooter. First two times he qualified as a sharpshooter (middle of 3 ranks.) Third time he barely qualified as a marksman(lowest rank.) What that really proves is that shooting is like any motor skill - your ability with it depends on how much you practice. That he had just been through boot camp explains his higher earlier scores.

Now, I'll admit the Mannlicher-Carcano isn't exactly a sniper weapon. I wouldn't spend money on one, then or now. But I don't see any reason to believe it couldn't do the job.

Also IIRC: The driver hit the breaks after the first shot to turn around and see what was going on. That means the final shot would have been against a stationary target.

To Girty,

I think the limo driver got in the infamous headshot...which also brings in Secret Service into the equation...not just the CIA. That makes Douglass Dillon culpable. He was also out of the country that day. Of all JFKs cabinet members the only one in the country that day was Lyndon Johnson who was with him on that fateful trip. Talk about a security breech.

Edward Lansdale was probably the man responsible for putting the teams together. He was in charge of Operation Mongoose, an assassinations program. He was also involved in the death of Diem in Vietnam.

PS-I couldn't resist...I took a peek at your blog...I have no pictures of myself online to make it fair but when I do I will let you know. Congratulations on your baby!

PSS You can still hunt me.

spycat, who do you think was behind the JFK assasination? It's easy to say that JFK wasn't killed by some "lone gun man" (we all know that), but who ordered it, why? and what are their current role in our present goverment? I know the Rockefellers and Roschilds funded Hitler and profited incredibly from the war, and that they basically scapegoated Krupps after World war 2 to get away with it (not that the Krupps didn't profit from Hitler's war either) but what is their objective in your view? I don't beleive in all that occult conspiracy nonsense, so what have we left?

I always liked the theory of the shooter in the storm drain; ever heard of that one? A couple of the bullets had to come from a very low angle (so I read).

By the way: that's my godson in the pic, not my son. I don't have any babies.

PS- *chick-chick* Start running!

Well Babayaga, you bring up some good points about WW2 and illegal profitmaking.

WW2 serves as a model for what forces in our own country would do to us and tried. They helped bring German sabateurs here, German Nazi propaganda, the industrialists and bankers also built up Germanys war machine and they sank our freighters and Brittains with their U-boats.

The DuPont family here in the states wanted to keep us out of the war too, they also had a vested interest, they also tried to remove FDR in a coup...look up an army man by the name of Smedly Butler. Theres a big story about that affair.

What do they want to do to us? What are their plans? Quite simply...to retain their authority in our government, continue to deregulate to the point of irresponsibility, aquire cheap labor, and turn America into something that resembles a shell corporation.

Government watchdog agencies have been neutered...like the FCC and the EPA. Wall ST is one of the biggest defrauders on the planet and they need to be cleaned up. Speaking from experience on that one. Long story about Prudential Securities.

Our intelligence apparatus revolves around the corporate leaders now. Just look at what was done in S America in the name of business in the last 40 years. Standard oil really made out...they sold leaded fuel to S America because we had restrictions here in the US...I think they missed the point.

Bottom line is Nazi Germany was the corporations state. Those corporations walked on eggshells after the war but quickly made a comeback...buried the history of their Nazi dealings and slipped into our government through the backdoor.

Eugenics was an idea started here first with the Harriman family being one of its biggest advocates...Hitler adopted the idea from us for a final solution.

What do you expect from the worlds richest and most influential members?

Too low an angle but a good and imaginative suggestion...I think they disproved that because there was nowhere to escape to? Drain to small to run through or something. If you watch the newer Zapruder film...they took what existed of the old one and digitized it...cleared it up and stopped the jittery action. So Im watching it and they showed all even the SS driver and his partner in the front seat.

The driver turned around twice, showing he lied to the Warren Commission, on his second turn back he is pulling something out of his jacket and aims over his right shoulder...at that point JFK's head explodes. He was basically point blank. With all of the other gunshots and Conally wounded , everyoine was too distracted to notice...but it was caught on film. The previous copies never show the limo drivers from start to finish.

PS- Girty...Well thats a relief because I want to save more money before I have kids.

SpyCat, just because Oswald was a radar operator does not mean that he didn't have weapons training. Have you forgotten the "All Marines are Infantrymen First" motto?

The angle is a bit steep, but did the alleged sniper-author look at legitimate target angles from THAT day?? He says that Oswald had to shoot immediately after JFK came out from behind a bunch of tree branches... were the leaves there THAT day? It was late November, and leaves fall from trees each year in Texas.. just like they do here in Florida. Not all of them, nor all at once, but did the author consider that ONE tree? And how long after 1963 did he do the analysis? Could the tree have GROWN as trees are wont to do?

And just because there are ten bullet IMPACTS does not mean that there were ten shots fired. A single bullet can fragment, and a single shot that hits a curb can impact a second curb and wound a guy... while a second fragment hits a sign...

BUT, was the sign hit by a 7.62mm round? No way to know, now, is it? Remember, this is Texas, where each New Years Eve there were thousands of rounds shot up into the air by civilians... and I know from experience that signs are favorite targets - in Texas as well as most other states.

And I have to agree with Redneck- a guy that cites a movie to make a point has lost all credibility with me... And, how does this guy back up his claim to be an actual sniper? There are thousands of phonies and wannabes that lie their butts off by claiming to be snipers and SEALS and Green Berets and POWs... whats on this guy's resume?? Its awfully easy to quote a dead guy (Carlos Hathcock)...

there is a lot more evidence pointing towards the mafia,and in particulary carlos marcello,and sam giancina.would,nt surprise me if hoover or alan dulles helped them too.

Basically...we have an expert sniper telling us how hard it would be to hit a moving target at...what was it, 77 yards? Moving, mind you...if you refer to Bill Greers and agent Kellermans response to the Warren Commission, you will find that they say they didn't stop the car but was averaging 11 mph the whole way...but the Zapruder film wasn't shown to the public until Jim Garrisson brought his case to the Governments attention...he found out it was bought by Time/ Life and subpoenad it. Before then all we had was the "official" response and their artists renditions of a neatly shaped bullet hole in the back of JFK's skull. Now we know today those agents lied...the car DID stop then the fatal hit...then the agents sped off. Oswald was not a trained marksman...even if the car did stop for him to shoot, he was not the most qualified person for the job.

Remember now gentleman that our own government , during the House Assassinations Committee, stated that there probably was a conspiracy involving the murder of JFK.
Oswald probably was involved because we have picture showing him hanging out with gun runners David Ferrie and JAck Ruby. Who were both involved with running guns to Cuba to Castro when he was on our side in 1957. Later when Castro took power he had jailed Santos Trafficante...Jack Ruby helped get him released. There are pictures of him there.

There was a conspiracy...but how was Oswald really involved...lets assume that when he went to Russia and came back so easily, that he was actually an agent with Military Intelligence...now if he was then he might have been keeping the FBI informed of those who wanted to kill Kennedy. Only he didn't know that he would be dead and JEdgar Hoover would cover it up...along with Lyndon Johnson who immediately escalated the Veitnam war.

Thanks, I could not even remember where I read/saw that theory.

I do remember reading this in a book. This makes a lot more sense than some of the other ideas.

Are you flirting with me?

for a long time many people who are really familiar with the case think that,charles harrellson,actor woody harrellson's father and a know mafia hitman,
shot jfk.there is a picture somewhere of these transients being arressted and,low and behold,he's one of them.oswald could'nt have done this by himself.he just did'nt have thesmarts to done it!!!

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Are you flirting with me?
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Spycat: Heh!

Lets not all forget that there are many MANY different types of rounds that are manufactured and can be adapted to fire from any given weapon. Last time I saw somethings brains fly out of the back of its head was when I shot a squirrel with a hollowpoint from the front. Point being there are certain types of rounds that have an "exploding" function to them. I know I can't think of any that explode on impact (from the back) and then leave a small hole in the front. Meaning that he HAD to have been shot from the front. There is no explainable way around it. If Carlos Hathcock did say that then story closed. He had held the longest kill since Vietnam until I believe it was last year when a Canadian sniper shot a Taliban member in Afghanistan at 2430 meters. Think about the time difference his stuff is considered way outdated for today, so I would say he was probably the best sniper ever. You can't play down anything he says PERIOD!!!

The shot looks like it came from the front at close range. Judging the angle of JFKs head in Jackies lap and the angle of Bill Greers gun when he reaches in his coat and pulls something out, you can tell that the fatal shot was done by the driver...the other gunfire was a distraction.

We already know our government has lied to us and continually tries to cover it up but lets face it...is it really that hard to believe after the autopsy was proved a fraud?

Got to get the new digital Zapruder so you can see slow motion...I think its called MPI Zapruder?

Has anyone seen that episode of Myth Busters where they attempt to test all the theories with a really good sniper, i think?. Forgot what the outcome was.

Spycat where can i find a copy of the new zapruder film?

So your saying that the limo driver is the one who fired the shot that killed JFK?

Yes. The shot has been recreated several times. It has been done with experts and novice shooters alike.

And I flat-out do not believe that Carlos Hathcock said that he couldn't hit a slowly moving target at 77 yards with a scoped rifle.

Because this is a polite forum, I won't say what I otherwise would. However, snipers with scoped rifles don't shoot at moving targets, in the first place. Had the rifle had iron sights (open field, not peep sights), and been autoloading, there would have been at least some chance of a hit . . . even then, no one in their right mind would try for a head shot . . . body mass, perhaps, but not a head shot. The scope really works against one when the target is moving at right angles, and particularly more that 10 mph. Assuming a muzzle velocity of 2000 fps, and 10 mph, about 15 feet per second, that is a lead of about 1.5 feet, but if 20 mph, a lead of 3 feet. It is darn hard to tell how fast a target is really going at right angles, and involves a bit of tracking in the sights to determine. Then, having to destroy the sight picture to eject the round and load another, and get a scope back on target . . . not going to happen in the real world. As I recall from my military days, rapid fire is about 5 to 7 seconds per round, because that is how long it takes to get back on target, get a good sight picture, and go through an accurate firing process (breath in, partly out, hold it, squeeze the trigger) . . . and that is with peep sights and an auto loading rifle. Way slower with a scope and bolt action rifle. No way one person, no how.

I have to agree with RN, he could have easily hit that target moving that slow at 77 yards, This may be the only time i agree with you guys Oswald could Not have been the only shooter that day, I believe he was one of the shooter! But i think there were at least two maybe three in place that day!!!!

That's a very broad statement, and incorrect. They can and they have.



It wasn't moving at right angles, and I believe JFK's car was moving at under 10 mph. A scope can work against you at close ranges, but Oswald's was only a 4 power scope IIRC - suitable for a short range shot.



If he knew the local area well, and it's likely he did, he could determine the approximate speed of the car by watching how long it took to move between terrain features and landmarks. Besides, he didn't need to know its exact speed. He just needed a little luck, and he got it.



What are you saying - that because you can't do it it can't be done? It can and it has, in multiple recreations against targets moving at the same speed, and fired at the same angle. You might be surprised how fast someone can work a bolt with a little practice. Read Testing the War Weapons by Timothy J. Mullin, page 200 for a review of the Carcano - he explicitly says that the carcano can be fired quite rapidly.



Five to seven seconds per round from a semi-automatic rifle? That's not rapid. 20th century Brits were trained to deliver aimed fire from bolt action Lee Enfields at a rate of up to30 rounds per minute. It's not impossible or even improbable, it just takes a little practice.

So you think Oswald was the only shooter that day, Maybe but i still believe their was more than one, Who ever wanted Kennedy dead would want to make sure if Oswald missed their was someone to back up the assassin.

didn't Oswald shoot a policeman when he was approached?

Yes he did, The point here, I think is that he was not the only shooter, He was there, but some people believe there were more than one shooter that day, He fired his gun they know that, what is not known is, If he was the one who killed Kennedy, Some say he could not have from the angle he was at .

Larry Old Timer...Thank you for your insightful post...your experience has helped shed light on the subject.

Isis...Im glad to see that you belive there was a conspiracy...meaning more than one shooter, among other things. If you devote about 5 years to doing some research on it you will find that it is much more credible to think so than not...even congress agreed during the hearings on the matter in the 1970's that there was probably more than one shooter.

If you read more about the people that covered it up you would be amazed to see what skeletons they have in the closet and what they were up to at the time...and it reads like a very scary Stephen King novel, in a sense that these people we are talking about were capable of great horrors yet they were in powerful positions in our government.

wow. this whole time I believed there was a conspiracy and more than one shooter because of what I have read and the evidence I had gathered...I was WRONG the whole time! there IS a conspiracy, but I had no idea what KIND of conspiracy because I had not (according to you) done the same amount of research NOR spent the time on the subject needed to compose an accurate hypothesis!

Thank you, oh THANK YOU, dmgspycat for informing us that we have not read enough!

Ahhhh actually White Horse I wasnt being condescending, just wanted to point out that it takes a while to take it all in because there are so many angles to understand. The reply was more to Isis anyway. Now you dont have to patronize me...lol

This a complicated one, Johnson had nothing to do with it. The Kennedy's made their fortune running whisky from Canada. Hand in hand with organizied crime. As soon as Kennedy gets in office there is a big to do about him escalating the war on organized crime. He was renegging on historical friends who tend to have people shot not a good recipe for your continued health. But also he was pulling out of vietnam as soon as possible, Johnson wasn't afflicted with Kennedy's sensitive sensibilities so he would be better for big business. The only way for him to take over is sans Kennedy so thats a possibility too. One things for sure it will never really be known what happened.

I dont know about that caustic...there is enough info out now to disprove a number of things our government helped to cover up to initiate another congressional hearing...open the darned case back up.

BTW, caustic. Just to clarify...Joseph Kennedywas not a lowly "rum-runner" bum. He had money and was running with our countrys richest establishment powerhouses. He had bought his stock from Elisha Walker (of the Bush family) in a company that was making money under the table due to Prohibition. Mafia are always around powerful people but Joe Kennedy was not very powerful amongst his friends. Mafia was especially tight with CIA and the CIA was distrustful of Kennedy. Also...it was powerful families like Rockefeller and Harriman and Lovett that created the CIA...not the Kennedys.

It is propaganda that has been tossed at us over the years that throws us off track. It takes time to be able to piece together the facts as a more cohearent picture. The pre-assassination history is boring but tells us alot about the families aquaintences.