I would bet my life on Paul Wellstones plane being taken down but with what kind of technology? What can make an engine stall? Can powerful radiowaves or microwaves or any wave on the EM spectrum stall a plane by focusing on it? Was it an EMP blast? What kind of technology could do this yet leave no trace?

Tesla was considered crazy but he spoke of a defence for a country that could take down enemy planes using his technology...we all know Tesla was famous for working with EM waves. Could this have been the technology used.

The crashsite of the Wellstone plane suggests the plane dropped straight down...not glided in in a controlled crash landing. The trees suggest this at the site.

Now JFK Jr. was another political antagonist for Bush...was he shot out of the sky too?

He was an experienced flyer with night-time training...he would not risk his and his wifes lives to fly in bad weather...they had a big future together and he and Al Gore had talked on many occasions. His plane to mysteriously falls from the sky suggesting that he was not qualified to fly at night or in fog...if there really was any.


Anyone with more info. please post.

EMP's can leave next to no trace after an attack, although having not read into this, im not sure what could have been used.

it happens to be the cia's most favorite assasination technique --just like john waltons untimely death bin laden had a brother who died in tx in an "ultra lite accident"--these crafts glide when they lose power and to top it off they all have special parachutes designed to deploy as a last resort which makes them very safe

Is that why non famous poeple die in ultra lites all the time? Whatever.

I doubt eric really puts much research into anything as he has one answer for everything..."whatever"...lol

I heard it was carried out by George W Bush,(didn't he go missing for a few days after this happened?) as some sort of initiation by the evil powers that be.I doubt it but ya never know.

Acutally you as*. Two ultra lites have gone down in the Dallas/Ft Worth area during the last 6 months(they fall under the category of experimental aircraft). I guess they were shot down too. Get a grip. I can be nasty if you want to be.

Hold your horses...no ones was being nasty...just an observation of your usual response to all conspiracy theories...in that you usually don't answer them in a substantive way issue by issue. Usually derision. But hey...thats your right. Just would like to know how you could be so certain in your stance? You think you know the truth, ahhhh, how?

You know why that movie the Matrix was so popular ericraven? Because of the philosophy of the first movie...the more you learn of the world we live in and how it really works, the more the philosophy of the movie that makes sense. I will say though...I was dissappointed with the last two.

I don't know to much about the circmumstances but I wanted to comment on what the technology could have been. The story reminded me of an invention I heard of earlier this year.

Any one know the inventor Troy Hurtubise? He invents all kinds of crazy cool things. One invention the angel light used a beam that could see through wall and make electronic devices stop working when pointed at it. I highly doubt they used this guys invention, but I'm sure they are aware of the technology surrounding it.



Here's the original article:

Angel light
also check out: http://education.guardian.co.uk/higher/sci...1399124,00.html

for you lazy people who wont read the article heres some excerpts:

Mr. Hurtabise has constructed Tesla's death ray

"...“I turned it on—that was well over a year ago—and it worked and it was really awesome.” ...

Hurtubise said he could see into the garage behind his lab wall, and read the licence plate on his wife's car and even see the salt on it.

...If that’s not enough, Hurtubise also said the French government sent representatives to North Bay to witness a demonstration of the Angel Light.

Hurtubise said the reps were so impressed with the eight-foot long device they paid him $40,000 in cash to put the finishing touches on it...

...But a strange thing happened to the car, once it was hit by the Angel Light beam: it stopped working.

Hurtubise returned to his lab and began testing the Angel Light on other electronic items including portable radios, TVs and a microwave over.

“They all stopped working,” Hurtubise said.

He duly reported this to his MIT contacts.

"They said 'Troy, this is unbelievable.'"

To the ground

Hurtubise purchase a remote-control plane for $1,800 and took it and the Angel Light to a flying field on the way to Powassan.

He directed the Angel Light beam toward the sky and started the plane flying.

"On the first loop it came around, passed through the beam of light and fell right to the ground,” Hurtubise said...."

(Excerpt)


Death Ray Matthews

Matthews turned his mind to the idea of a possible death ray in the autumn of 1923. After reading news reports of French airplanes dropping out of the sky over Germany, he said: “I realized that the Germans had found an invisible ray that put the magnetos of the aircraft out of action. I concentrated on efforts to discover what it was, and with the electric ray now at my command I think I have succeeded.” Select journalists were given a demonstration of Matthews’ ‘ray’ stopping a motor cycle engine at a distance of 50 ft (15m). “I am confident,” Matthews announced, “that if I have facilities for developing it I can stop aeroplanes in flight –- indeed I believe the ray is sufficiently powerful to destroy the air, to explode powder magazines, and destroy anything on which it rests.”


Taken from...
Fortean Times

no conspiracy in jfk jr's death.you can chalk it up to a rich unexperienced pilot who picked an awful day to fly based on instruments and not site.before long somebody will claim john denver and the walton guy were conspiracy victims!

exactly

You mean they weren't??

www.questionsquestions.net/docs0209/1101_wellstone.html


Was Wellstone assassinated?

The first question really was, how could anyone be crazy enough NOT to ask the question seriously? It has become quite fashionable to heap instant disdain and superior ridicule on any talk of foul play and conspiracy in high places as a sign of "mania" or "paranoia", but as some have pointed out, the fact that so many people were quick to raise suspicions is nothing but a healthy sign, regardless of what the story turns out to be! Perhaps the public is starting to wake up to reality and understand, "it DOES happen here"? What is undeniable is that politics by airplane crash is an old tradition and has been practiced around the world. Many people quickly recalled other shady "accidents" from the past. Some pointed out by Mike Ruppert:

Rep. Hale Boggs, D-La., was killed in 1972 and had been an outspoken member of the Warren Commission investigating the assassination of JFK. Various sources reported that he had openly expressed doubts about the commission's findings.

Rep. Jerry Litton, D-Mo., was killed while campaigning for a U.S. Senate seat from Missouri nearly two months before the 1976 election. This was exactly the same fate that was to befall Missouri Democratic Gov. Mel Carnahan twenty-four years later.

Rep. Larry McDonald, D-Ga. and the national chairman of the John Birch Society and creator of a private intelligence operation called Western Goals, was killed on KAL 007 after it had mysteriously veered off course on a flight to South Korea and ventured several hundred miles into Soviet territory. The plane was shot down by the Soviet air force. At the time, McDonald's Western Goals was being exposed in an LAPD intelligence scandal linked to massive domestic spying, the CIA and covert operatives like Gen. John Singlaub.


Rep. Larkin Smith, D-Miss. was killed in a private plane crash in 1989. At the time he had been working with veterans of U.S. Army Special Forces looking into the deaths of five Green Beret colonels, all of whom had been connected to a covert CIA drug operation known as Watchtower. [Details of Smith's death are included in the FTW package "The Tyree Papers."]

Secretary of Commerce Ron Brown, a Democrat, was killed in a plane crash in Croatia on April 3, 1996. There are many unresolved mysteries with this incident, not the least of which is a color photograph of a post mortem Brown, which is frequently displayed by comedian/activist Dick Gregory, clearly showing a bullet wound in the back of his skull. John Tower, a recently retired Republican senator from Texas known for his heavy drinking, was writing a book about the Iran-Contra affair when he was killed in a plane crash in 1991. Tower had reportedly been extremely unhappy when he had been denied an appointment as secretary of defense by President George Herbert Walker Bush. Tower had also been the chairman of a Reagan-appointed independent commission investigating Iran-Contra.

In a recent investigative piece at FTW, Ruppert draws the following conclusions, which are supported by other researchers:

• icing or adverse weather conditions were not to blame.

• pilot error was very unlikely. Two very experienced pilots were on board.

• the King Air 100 is a remarkably reliable and safe aircraft.

Also, Ruppert reports off-the-record Congressional sources who believe Wellstone was murdered.




*********************************************************************




DId EMP Device Crash Wellstone and JFK Jr. Planes?
by JACKSON THOREAU

I'm looking into the use of electromagnetic pulse (EMP) devices in crashing planes and more "coincidental" similarities between the "accidents" involving Wellstone in 2002, Carnahan in 2000, and JFK Jr. in 1999.

All those "accidents" involved planes already descending towards their landing that suddenly wandered off their approach paths and crashed.

In all three cases, radio contact appears to have been cut off while the planes were still in the air, possibly indicating electrical failures on board.

One way to sabotage a landing airplane would be to use a focused electromagnetic pulse (EMP) device.

These machines are already being manufactured and marketed to law enforcement agencies to stop fleeing vehicles. In fact, here is a link to a US Dept. of Justice document describing these devices:

http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/sl298.txt

Theoretically, a person a few miles from the runway could bombard the aircraft with an intense electromagnetic pulse, which could cause an electrical failure, instantly knock out radio communication, disrupt normal engine ignition, and cause loss of steering control.

Lest we not forget the widow of Mel Carnahan who ran in his place against John Ashcroft, the incumbent Missouri senator....AND WON.

Defeated by the challenger's widow? What's a white man to do?

Good thing for him, he's one of the 'good ol' boys' and the Bush Administration gave him a job.

who knew and i thought planes crashed because of thing like pilot error

Well Isis I guess you wouldn't make a good investigator then. Things don't always work out that way...political sabotage to planes DOES happen especially when someone ass is on the line or someone is making to much trouble for the military industrial complex.

You have to explore avenues like that, look at the Wellstone crashsite for one...even the CNN reporter commented...it just fell out of the sky. Why did he say that? Because it was a wooded area with brush around and there was no damage any where to the trees except the spot where it crashed...suspicious eh?

I can tell you are young so I will give you a homework assignment...look up Flight 553 at this website...Skolnick Report

Its about a plane thatb was taken down for political reasons...a crash...it killed key people...the FB I and CIA were allready there waiting at the crashsite...(wow)!

Dorothy Hunt was onboard...wife of Watergate burglar E.Howard Hunt...All the information was smuggled out of the NTSB underneath the nose of a Nixon appointee and forwarded to a small citizens group to clean up the courts called CCCC, located in Chicago. That mans name who was a part of the organisation was named Sherman Skolnick.

and why is that suspicous? all that tells us is the angle at which it came down at

if anybody killed brown it was bill clinton,he was president when he was killed.
who's to say that the bullet hole in browns head was'nt from some of the ammo or guns that were boind to have been on the aif force plane he was on.

Maybe you didn't realise I was trying to point out that there was no angle...which doesn't make sense because those planes are designed to glide in if theres no engine power...but there was NO glide path for that plane...in a wooded and brushy area. No damage...just straight down...a total loss of control and a spiral straight down...now how does that happen?

when they found jfk jr's plane it was in over 300ft of water.his bond was bent backwards so bad,his ankles were behind his head.he dies because he was a very
a vey inexperienced pilot,and he relied on sight when he should have relied on his instruments.if he would have evr ran for president,i would have campaigned and voted for him! i think he had the charm and smarts to bring this country back to the level of respectability it deserves!

Yeah...keep the dream of the 60's alive...I wasn't born then but liked the goals they strived for. Things seemed to be more happier then.

I am no expert although I have flown gliders, but as with any sports equipment, those ultra-lites come in the economy, and deluxe models. Your survival would depend on which model you were flying and the expertise of the pilot. Mr. Walton was a very experienced pilot and I suspected foul play when I saw the wreckage. No wings, No glide path.
Anyway, back to the initial issue, was JFK jr "blasted" out of the sky?
Well I was emotionally distraught over that incident and suspected that maybe someone assassinated a young American Catholic prince to avenge the death of a Protestant English Princess. It was just a sour grapes thought. There was speculation that the Catholic Church (a white Fiat)was involved in the death of the Princess but went away very quickly. He probably wasn't very good at IFR flight.

you mean the constant threat of nuclear war? or the drug induced stupor of the hippies?



no, i did realise that you were trying to say that because it didn't have a shallow crash, foul play must have occured!

Mechanical failure perhaps?
maybe he had a heart attack?
maybe he hit a bird
etc etc

my godfather and his family died in a light plane crash, flying along and plop dropped out of the sky, there wasn't a 'glide path', there wasn't even any damage to the surrounding bushland aside from the wreckage, turns out he had a heart attack and down they went. Sometimes there doesn't have to be a conspiracy:)

John John was not the greates pilots adn I and I also believe he was wear a leg/foot cast so his abilty to fly a plane in adverse conditions was minimize by those factors. Also I recalll he was running into an unfairable condition that "sometimes" causes pilots to be confused what is up and what is down. "If" this was the case John John "could" have flown the plane straight down!

Some reports say fog and others say clear...which reports do we take as factual...the airports?The one he left from or the one he was flying to? Some say he wasn't a good enough pilot but his freinds on the news said he had night training...whos word do we take? What did his logbook say?

Good points I would suggest that friends will have a favorable and bias view of JFK flight skills.

Sorry to hear about that bathory...and yes , not every incident is a conspiracy...but when you get into politics where power and money are concerned and your not on board with the program...you could be "dissappeared".

Funny how all of the politicians who weren't on board with Bushs policies end up in plane crashes for whatever reason...they were all democrats! If I was an investigator, I would be at least suspicious...there are coups in foreign countrys all the time and people die...why do you think that it wouldn't happen in the USA by opposing forces?

I never see any fascists die like that...nope, they plague the world until they're a ripe ole age...lol

really? how many people?


i'm just saying that light plane crashes happen all the time and i wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people killed are rich and powerful simply because its a hobby full of people with money.

John John wasn't shot out of the sky by President Bush.....

Unfortunately, he became confused between the sky and the water ...both dark...and didn't rely on his instrumentation panel to guide him. Cocaine may have also been a factor.

Heh...hows going joc...Just trying to see if anyone else thought this suspicious becaus of all of the liberal/democrats that have died in plane crashes since JFK Jr.'s...alot really, and all a thorn in the side of Generalissimo Arbusto and his radical right policies.

One reason planes crash without leaving damage to the nearby trees and bush is the "falling leaf" spin. One of the most common reason for a falling leaf is wing icing. A layer of ice, just a few millimeters thick, can form on part of a wing and destroy the lift of the wing. The plane will fall off to one side and go into a spin in a slightly nose down attitude. If the pilot adds power to try to get out of the spin the nose will rise up to a horizonal position while still rotating around the center of gravity of the plane. In that case there is no foreword movement of the plane, just spinning straight down. No gliding as the ice prevents the wing from developing lift. The plane then hitting the ground like a flyswatter. A wing icing incident is hard to tell as the ultra thin layer of ice will melt from the resulting fire or just from melting from the warmer ground temputure.
In the JFK, jr. accident, it was hazy at last light in the evening. With no horizon to see. A pilot who does not trust his instruments in that case will imagine the horizon is higher than it really is and will keep pulling back on the stick trying to keep above what they think is the horizon - until the planes nose is so far up, that lift ends and the plane falls off into a stall. And JFK,jr. only had a few hours in his new plane, that required a special endorsement to his flight licence due to the high performance of the plane. So if anything happened in this plane he would have had less time to react before going beyond the point of recovery.

Since JFK Jr was an obvious imbecile and plainly too stupid to fly, there is no other explanation than his crash was caused by his own utter incompetence. Wellstone on the other hand was just a blow mouth who insisted on making a petty political appearance requiring flight in very treacherous weather. If Wellstone had not used his overbearing obnoxious mannerisms to intimidate the young flight crew he might have survived. However, it certainly was beneficial to the country if not sad for his family that he killed himself.

JFK Jr being a drolling neanderthal finally did catch up with him. The airliner that he caused to maneuver to avoid him on his fatal flight was just one more example of what a menace these Kennedys are in their bizzarre and moronic deaths.

If there is a Kennedy around immediately get away so you will not be killed along with them when they embark on their inevitable stroll down the lane of stupidity being trumped by gravity.

As far as Mr Walton is concerned, wasnt his crash during his actual takeoff?? That is what I heard on the local news around here. However, Im in deep east texas, we dont have the most educated reporters on the earth.. Not the most un educated, however not the sharpest tools in the shed.
JFK Jr, on the other hand Im really just not sure. It is strange how all the kennedy's all have suspicious deaths, but as others have said, it can just be due, to plain stupidity.
The only thing I know about JFK Jr, is why he never took a bath or shower. He figured he would wash up on shore.
Sorry for the tasteless joke, but any info on jfk's crash, or waltons crash appreciated.