[quote=Nlt_Overman,Jul 19 2005, 05:16 PM]
As a Satanist, and no real Satanists don't believe in Hell, Heaven, or any gods, I just ignore people who say I'm going to Hell. If they ask me if I'm deaf, I say "Nope, just tired of listening."

As for Hell, if it existed (which it doesn't), I'd be happy to go there.



A question for you: why do Satanists steal the Eucharist? I never heard of them stealing the "bread" offered up at other churches, I only heard of them stealing the Eucharist.
And some 'possessed' individuals know when someone comes in the room with a hidden Eucharist on their body. I even know of a call-in case where a normal teenaged girl had accidents in her pants when in the presence of Jesus Christ himself (the Eucharist).
I think the Satanists themselves don't know what they are dealing with in the Eucharist. But the beast snarling behind your back knows what it is... Did you know that the demons that surround you every moment of the day hate you very much? They are not interested in your comradeship- the only reason they are interested in you is because you are precious to God. You are simply a soul to be added to their groupand then discarded. You will not join hands "to hate God forever". Thereisonly isolation and hate, hate, hate.
I am only dumbfounded when people say their is no hell. Ask God for evidence! Do it one day- He answers EVERY prayer. After all, if you are a true satanist, then you should be absolutely sure of yourself. Personal conviction tells you there is no hell? Everyone has personal convictions, that means nothing. One manifestation of hell or of demons around you will alter forever the myth that you surround yourself with. Or will it? I shan't bore you with my experience with the devils, for whatever reason God let me see the whole sickness of it. You have to see yourself.
What's the point of standing in front of the fridge and declaring to the world, "I know there ain't no stinkin' orange juice here! I don't need to open the fridge!" Open up Pandora's box and see what's sitting in your living room. All you need is to challenge God with a prayer.

but from the 500-1760's priests did take the hell thing out of the proportion, masturbation can make you go to hell -_- then 90% of all men are going to hell
i belive god would not be so harsh on people..i dont belive i should go to hell, i admit i kinda was mean to some people.. but i go out of my day to feed the home less dog that comes on my porch before i go to school, i dont make fun of people with disabilities.i am getting very in touch with my religion in this stage of my life.. i even think i am a ressurection of some one very famous

Now I don't beleive in mixing your personal beleifs with showing hatred towards others beleifs but how is this different than a pagean saying you won't have do this or that or a egyption saying you won't be reincarnated if you don't worship they're God. You have to be open to the beleif that all religions are like this and are open to showing they're beleifs.It's not just Christianity.

Of course, I understand that it isnt just christianity but other relligions as well, and nor do I hate them but I wish they would not be so closed in on their relligions that it blinds the to see other good traits like theirs, but I may not agree with everything because people are changing the relligion into their personal gain, but sometimes they need to think outside the box, other things exist if they like it or not. But I'm sorry if I offended people or not, I sincerly apologise but I was mearly saying I do not think one relligion is better than the next they are equal and should be treated as such.

Dont' worry about Hell. It is not in the Old Testament writings that Jesus endorsed as the true word of God. Hell was added to the New Testament by Jesus's pagan greek followers who believed in Hades, not to mention demons too. So obviousl was this rip-off of pagan Greek beliefs, that this Hell is even run by a greek God Apollyon! It says so in Revelations!

I have attended mass almost every week for most of my life. I have never heard a priest say that I was going to hell for any reason. In fact, I can't remember ever hearing hell mentioned in a sermon within a Catholic Church.

Revelations is bull, I'm pretty sure it was added almost a century after the first New Testament was written if my memory serves me correctly.

My priest has never told anyone that they're going to hell.

Bindy, again welcome to the boards. I hope you enoy your time with us.

I see that you have brought up the demon pssesion subject. I have seen this used a lot as an arguement for the exsistance of usually the catholic version of God.

It is however easy to see that indoctrination does seem to have an effect on cases of possesion. After all it's never the Budhist or Pagan who gets possesed. So it appears to have something to do with the teachings of the faith you are born into.

There is no doubt Revelation was written near the end of the 1st century AD, by the apostle John, who was exiled to the Island of Patmos by Emperor Domitian. These are historical facts. Does this mean that it it the true word of God? No. The only religious texts Jesus endorsed were the books we now call the Old Testament. The New Testament was written by Pagan Greek converts, and filled with pagan mythology, including the Book of Revelations.

Pshhhh, please. I don't beleive in hell, but I do beleive in God.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.

You can't burn in hell if you know nothing.

Maybe you should try being a Zoroastrian here in our religion you dont have to go to curch,pray, confess, etc God just wants you to lead a good life, to place a good example for others, etc.

The Book of Ecclesiastes was written from a very physical standpoint, as can be seen by the structure of Ecclesiastes 3:1-8). The good perish, the evil prosper (Ecc 4).

From this physical (as opposed to godly) perspective, we do just "die". But the Teacher (presumably Solomon) ends this book with "The end of the matter, all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every deed into judgmenet, with every secret thing, whether good or evil" (12:13-14).

If people die and that's the end, how would GOd judge every deed?

Just something to think about.

Regards, PA

Maybe an outline of the book of Revelations, but a majority was written after that time.

No proof of that 'Grad, but what's your point? Would a later date make it any more or less "authentic" in your opinon?

Oh sure, pagans and Buddhists get possessed. Why not? Every single one of us has the spark of God in us, and sin as well. My husband is a Sikh from India. There are many prayers against the "evil spirits" although they do not know about hell. My husband was present at an exorcism, as well, in India. At that time, he did not know about Christianity or our knowledge of the demons.
And didn't the bible indicate that Jesus expelled demons, and the demons entered into the pigs nearby? Pigs are considered unclean by the Jews, and so the land there would have been pagan territory.

But there are actually no cases of Buddhists or Pagans getting possessed.

A lot of cultures have prayers or cleansings to ward off evil spirts. But actual excorsisms and demonic possesion is the area of the Catholic church.

Also I don't quite get the connection between the pagans and the pigs.

I am a Pagan and I am possessed.....

Fasinating I never thought of that how most people report excorsisms and are mainly catholic, but other people get possesed, so there is alot to thinkabout when its something you believe, its an intresting twist to put in.

I had a thought yesterday about priests that like to perform exorcisms. I was wondering if they were the kids that hung around with the kids that pulled wings off of flys. They just stood by and watched and liked it but never had the guts to do it. They were fearful of these feelings so they went into the priesthood (not all priests). The flys they pull the wings off of are substituted with people they claim need exorcism. The cruelty is about the same really.

Just a pondering mind mowing the lawn.

taoists, buddhist, and orthodox jews all practice exorcism. it is not even close to roman catholic property.

The Old Testament food Laws given in Leviticus 11 forbid Israel from eating certain foods, pig being one of them. To eat pig is to do as the pagan's do.

Regards, PA

Im thinkin most the anti church posts in this thread is bs or theres alot of bad preachers out there.
Im not a christian but ive seen missions to prisons, bars even parking lots. Saw videos from my schools and churches(went to alot) missionary trips to other countries when i was younger. And my school even smuggled bibles to some countries.

And no one ever used hell as a "scare tactic" I was even trained a lil for missionary work and first you asked the individual do they know jesus if they say no then you ask them if you could tell em about jesus. If they say no then give em a free bible but usualy its a flier to church.
Most training for missionary work is how to respond to someones questions not how can i trick them to christianity.
Ive seen many people saved in church. And again no one even mentions hell. They just do there sermons and near the end they say is anyone here who hasnt accepted jesus and would like to today.

and to be a christian is even more pagan and non-jewish!

Heru, for someone who claims not to be a Christian, you sure do spout a lot of Christian propaganda. I guess those "Chick tracts" left all over the place don"t mention Hell or Satan or anything like that. Yeah, Right!!! The fear of being left out of the mythological Heaven and doomed to the equally mythological Hell is the total selling point of Christianity. What else have they got to sell and how else can they keep the "troops" in line? Hell (and the fear of) is the major selling point of Christianity, else everyone could be a Zoroastian or a Mythrian or a Buddhist (the first two do have a hell, but at the end of days, the occupants will be cleansed of their sins by fire and take their place with Ahuru Mazda in Heaven). Else why even have Christianity? After all, what did Jesus supposedly come for? Why to be the sacrifice so you wouldn't have to go to Hell!

Hi Sherri

ABout your friend, I used to be a catholic. yes their teachings can make you scared.

Here's a couple of verses you can share with him will maybe make him feel more peaceful in his mind.

John 3: 16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

1 John 4:16
And so we know and rely on the love God has for us. God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.

Hope this helps him.

Umm keep the troops in line? Christianity isnt a nazi camp.
Maybe its where you live or something. I live in the bible belt so most churchs dont focus on converting but on having a "full house". They usualy do it by having alot of church events cookouts, bowling, concerts and etc..
My current gf's relative is a preacher at a church so ive been to there church a few times and ive never heard em mention hell. If they mention jesus' sacrifice they associate it with taking your pain sickness and yes even sin. But then they change to gods love for you.
There goal or hook is "vision" telling people to not just have faith but to invision there dream and take the steps (in faith) to accomplish that dream and not say i have faith and expect it to come true.

There has been a few churches in my time who use the guilt trip but there usualy looked down on and there congrigation is changed and refocused.

One of the biggest youth church advertises to christian parents but mostly to chrisitan kids, sure they say you can bring a friend from any religion but they usualy dont bring it up unless you say you dont wanna go cause you dont know anyone there. Most of the time there is spent playing basketball or doing concerts and mtv type games, with a little preaching before and after ofcourse.

But no sorry christianity isnt some society bent on taking over the world a lil judgmental sometimes but not out to rule the world.

Hi Lismore
If God did the human sacrifice thing with his one and only son, then why are there Bible verses that talk about "the sons (Plural) of God and even more that refer to us (human males) as sons of God.

This is called love?

Matthew 10:21
Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death."

Matthew 10:34-36
Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword."

Matthew 15:4-7
Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it.

This is just three out of Matthew alone. A real loving God you have.

Umm, I wouldn't be too sure of that. Christianity has consistently attempted to control every aspect of it’s host culture for millennia. Witness the control of the faltering Roman Empire by the Bishops of the Church (it was their actions in a large part that resulted in the fall of the Empire). Witness the control that the Church exerted over the secular monarchies of the Middle Ages through the fear of excommunication and the resulting trip to Hell after death. After the Protestant Reformation, you would expect things to get better, but Martin Luther ran things with an iron fist, had people tortured, mutilated and murdered (usually by the most painful of all executions – burning), His “buddy”, John Knox was just about the same, the Scottish Kirk (as it was called) executed people, for not living as they were told they should, condemning them to Hell as an afterthought. This has carried on and on to even today, where Christians in the Balkans are murdering non-Christians for the simple reason that they do not believe as the Christians do. Yes my friend, Christianity can (and more often than not, unless restrained by a secular government) be a Nazi camp (actually, compared to the Christians of old, Nazi’s were pantywaists) or worse.

Well, being a resident of “West-By-God-Texas”, I would think that I qualify as living in the bible belt. In fact, it has been mentioned that the two most staunch Fundamentalists states in the U.S. are Texas and Alabama (can you spell Waco) and as a 40 year Christian before I saw the true evil of the religion, I can say that every other sermon being spewed from the hard-shell Baptist church that I attended was on the danger of Hell and the horrors and torments of that mythical place. As for all the activities, you got to keep them together, else they might associate with other beliefs and see the truth isn't really the truth.

And why was that sacrifice performed and what is god’s love attempting to save you from? Hell, naturally….it loses it’s effectiveness if you flog the horse all the time, so they naturally imply instead of stating.

Again, what is the vision? The vision is doing what god told you and avoiding going to Hell.

Yep, the subtle indoctrination and brainwashing begins and continues until they can reel in another poor fish. At the rate people are falling away from organized religion, they need to start their recruiting earlier and more subtly, consequently the games, concerts, food and drink, with a seemingly innocent message (but very dangerous message) thrown in.

You don't need an organized religion to believe in what you do I don't

um sorry buddy texas isnt the bibble belt its the south.
One think you cant seem to understand is the churches arnt united. middle ages was catholicism, which theres not to many of around here.
And what does the christians in the bulkins have to do with a church in a small town. You think in kansas a 30 member church is signaling the balkins to kill everyone whose non christian. Umm your a lil paranoid.

And the vision that church is meaining is to achieve your dreams either its money, healing, or stronger relationship with your family its whatever they dream or whatever there goals are. again your paranoid.

Individual churches worry about filling the pues of individual churches, or tele evangelance they worry about fame and gettn people to buy there books, and cds.

If a buisnessman kills someone its him thats bad but if a religious man kills someone then its all of religion at fault.

Not all muslims are terrorist or suicidal or violent its just some crazy or evil men use religion just like some use governments, as a disguise or tool.

Just like not all christians are bible thumpers, or tell everyone there going to hell.

Stereotypes(sp) first ladder of sexism, racism yadda yadda which all lead to the top of genocide.

Well, here is what a couple of other sources have to say about where the Bible (or as you call it quite correctly the bibble belt) belt is located:

Life in the USA - The term Bible Belt refers to states in the Deep South plus Texas where fundamentalist and evangelical Christianity is taken very seriously.

Explanation Guide - The Bible Belt is an area including a number of southern and midwestern states in the USA in which fervent Protestantism is a pervasive part of the culture. The stronghold of the Bible Belt is typically The South. Although exact boundaries do not exist, it is generally considered to cover much of the area stretching from Texas north to Kansas, east to Virginia, and south to Florida. The term is also sometimes used to describe the generally conservative province of Alberta, in Canada.

Anymore questions about Texas being part of the bible belt, especially Abilene that advertises “A Church on every corner!”?

Does the Southern Baptist Convention (that great leadership organization that sets the steps for Baptists to dance to), the Mennonite Central Committee, the National Council of Churches of Christ in the USA, or the United Methodist Council ring bells? Christianity is still very united, even as it fragments itself to death. Each little fragment yearns to be a part of a larger group without giving up it’s pursuit of a particular interpretation of their book of myths. This can only be accomplished by joining up with other churches with similar beliefs, yet retaining a bit of autonomy.

No, but those Christians in the Balkans (also groups of small churches) show what small churches of Christians are capable of when joined together for a specific task. Don’t you think those Balkan Christians are (or at least were) typical loving individuals, men and women that love their families, that help the down-trodden, that have aspirations for their children and honor their God? The very exclusivity of the Christian mindset makes it easy for a good, loving, and generous person to become a slavering ferocious killing machine in the name of their God. It has been demonstrated over and over throughout the last 2000 years. Was it the Catholics that enslaved the Africans? Yes and no, most American Southern slaveholders were Protestants, since the old South was settled predominately by Scotch-Irish (Ulster Orange men) Americans, with a dim view of the “ignorant Papists B-----ds” and usually ran Jews and Catholics out of the state! We generally hold slavery as a low heinous crime against humanity, but these good Christians used the bible to justify slavery (Exodus 21:1-8, God’s guide for slave owners) and the statement by Jesus for Servants/Slaves to obey their Masters. It was the Protestant Americans that attempted genocide on the Native American population, while stealing their land and ravishing their wives, mothers, sisters and daughters. It was Protestant Americans that would leave smallpox infected blankets where the local natives could find them and start epidemics among their people, freeing the land for the whites to use! Yep, you don’t have to be a member of a large group to use you God to justify your deeds. Had those Native Americans been members of the same denomination as the perpetrators, I doubt if such actions would have taken place, but they were instead, members of a “pagan’ heathen religion and thus not quite human!

Then your church is not teaching what their savior taught. Did he not say that it would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven? He also advised against laying up treasures on earth, but to instead lay up treasures of a different kind (Heavenly). In Matt 6”:4 he lays it out that you can’t serve two masters and money (or the love of the things it brings) is a master. Preaching on achieving your monetary desires is leading people from their God. Jesus also taught against the family, I must point out Matt 10:21, Matt 10:34, Luke 14:26 and Luke 14:33. In these verses Jesus is stating very plainly that he has come to turn family members against each other. That he brings strife, not peace! Only if the members of that church actually heal the sick in the manner that Jesus did, can their preaching on healing be valid. Jesus gave the disciples and those following the power to heal in the same manner as he did.

Just as the individual churches in the Balkans and Africa worried about these things, before the killing started. It would take little to set off these good church members! I am sure that a few African Americans could point out relations and ancestors that were killed by good Christian white men, usually because they were perceived as violating a particular tenet of the bible.

Only if that religion teaches that killing in the name of that god is acceptable, as is taught in Judaism, Christianity and Islam. A Buddhist that kills, does reflect adversely on Buddhism, since Buddhism is so adamant about no killing any life. But when you have a god that has his chosen people perpetrate horrendous atrocities, such as Jehovah did, then that religion can be held accountable for the murders committed in its name.

No, those that don’t practice what their savior taught or don’t give their all to their savior as he instructed, don’t thump their bibles or tell people they are going to hell, but according to his teachings, that is where those uncommitted Christians are going!

That unfortunately is exactly how Christians tend to see non-Christians, as stereotypes and not quite human. This is why it is so easy for the average Christian to act in the name of his god, usually in horrid ways.

Interesting you should mention Buddhism Charlie Mike. As I was reading your posts on ethnic cleansning in the Balkans I couldn't help but think to the same thing being carried out against Christians by Buddhist communities in China and Vietnam.

Isn't Buddhism supposed to be about peace? Oh well, I guess we should label every Buddhist a hate-mongering, murdering zealot now, eh?

Regards, PA

I believe that Buddhists attacking Christians in China is a little far fetched....Remember, I am a former Chinese translator, work within the Intelligence community and have a pretty fair idea of what the situation in the PRC (People's Republic of China) is like. Their (the PRC government) grip on the people is authoritarian to a degree that we can hardly envision, that coupled with their intense hatred of the Buddhists (even more than their hatred of the Christians) would preclude any action by either religion against the other. Can you imagine the line of fighters kneeled down and recieving the famous "shot to the back of the head', then having their families billed for the cost of the bullet. That is what would happen in a case of religious attacks! As for Vietnam, if there were to be any attacks against the Christians by Buddhists and for some reason the communist government of the PRV (People's Republice of Vietnam) didn't react as the PRC did, it might only be pay back for the attempt at genocide by the very Christian government of the RVN (Republic of Vietnam aka South Vietnam) back in the 1960's. Most people aren't aware that the Vietnamese Christians used their governmental powers to surpress and attempt to obliverate the Buddhists of Vietnam. Why do you think the Buddhist Monks were immolating (throw another monk on the barbie,mate) themselves - in protest of the treatment they were recieving.

Oh man Mako speak to me in Chinese.

I have a woman who we support at church who is in missions down there and the chinese destroy bibles and everything there. It is sad. I just wish that they would understand that some people want to know Christ.

Not to mention throwing Christians in gaol and sometimes killing them and their families just for believing in it...........

PA:
As Mako pointed out it is not just the Christians that are being persecuted but Buddhists among others as well.

why do you got to church if you don't believe in it? are you a closet athiest or is it that you don't like the messeges you're getting from the catholic church?

We don't need to go to church to have someone tell us that we are going to hell. They ring our doorbells, stop us on the street, in the malls.....even here once or twice in this forum. You do not need to go into a church.

No just read my SIG.

then i'll ask, why are you sick and tired?

Sick and tired of what? Religion?

excuse me my friend. i didn't mean to quote you. in other words, never mind.

i was addressing Ancient Sorceress.

It's all good guy

If you are reffering to a speciffic post click the "Quote" button so that person knows you are asking them about something they said. I highlited her reasons why.

As we've said many times, just say "no thanks, not interested". If you claim that doesn't work, just check my thread on "are you being preached to" and maybe you'll know how a Christian feels every time they open a newspaper.

Regards, PA

This is so typically Christian. Why put in a preaching quote in this thread?
Can't you people speak of love and equality without quoting the Bible as if it has the monopoly on those subjects???

on the street we have that option of saying no or just ignoring the offender, but it is not just there that we run into that type of Christian.


Then why read the news paper? Tell the news boy "Thanks but no thanks".


Your problem solved

Thank you Zandore. That was exactly my point.

The following is dedicated to 101 and Zandore (it is about a dragon) and was an exercise we used to practice the different tones (Chinese is a tonal language). My apologies to any Chinese speakers, but I am using Yale romanization:
You yi tyan dzai Jung gwo, you yige da lung. Jeige lung hen ai chr syau haidz. Keshr, ta you yige ya tung, bu keneng chr syau haidz, jyou ke chr chau bai tsai. Ta hen busyihwan chau bai tsa1! Ta ke dzwo shemma? PM me for the translation, it's too embarrassing (not dirty) to print here. - Mako ( aka Mai Ke Lao)