Origonal news story by BBC

London has been rocked by four bomb blasts, with it is estimated half a dozen other bombs found (which did not go off).

So what happens now? My prediction - ID cards will be ushered in quickly to 'protect us' and our civil liberties will come crashing down.

In a totally unrelated matter...



MP Andrew Smith said on the Radio that National ID cards would have been a good way to catch these terrorists before they had the chance to plant the bombs.

So is this paving the way towards a police state? I guess only time will tell.

I now feel I can come on this forum without calling anyone rude names. I hope. This can be my trial run.

Walken, I don't see how we are heading towards a police state, that is an actual impossibility.

There are many, many reasons why we will never be a police state. One is that we are one of the leading countries that represent democracy, we are at the forefront of bringing it to the world.
The citizens of this country would never allow a police state to happen.
The police would never want to take that roll.
Tony Blair is not evil, he is not even right wing, something that a police state is often associated with. I do not see how you could gather such a conclusion or think that such a thing is possible.

I hate to break it to you, but you are simply being naive. This will only result in more security being implemented and more loss of freedoms in exchage for security. Not only is it a very real possiblity but it is the agenda.

If you believe that we could ever be a police state then you are naive. Niave of the way the world works and how things will always turn out.

I hate to break this to you.

It is not the agenda, it is a conspiracy made up by people who like to worry about these things, this idea could not be further from the truth.

If you don't want to concede to basic security measures such as id cards. you have no right at any point in the future to question how terrorists were allowed into the country or how they succeed in committing such horrible attacks that could kill thousands...No one wants to give up freedoms. But its either give up some and be at least a little safer or don't and put a bulls eye on your back. No matter what anyone thinks there are people out there that all they want to do is kill and harm those who don't believe as they do its that simple. When your government, those people who are paid to see that you are as safe as possible, tries to add security to help with the cause of fighting terrorist attacks or god forbid actually try to do something offensive about it give them a break unless you have a better idea other then sitting at you computer in denial of it saying never happen to me. Do you really want to get blown up? how about your friends and family? Is safety really not worth a little more security measures?

So let me ask you; Will these ID cards clearly outline whether you're a terrorist or not?

Of course not. People seem to forget that the enemey of this war is not typical. Many will have upstanding reputations up until this point.

ID cards will not help a great deal at the present, but if there is any chance, no matter how slim, that they will save at least one life, they are worth investing it.

Just an opinion: There are ID cards for years in my country, and it didnt mean less fredom for us. The Identity Cell its a samll card expended by the federal police after a brief paperwork and have some ofical data (yor complete name, adress, national document number, a small foto of you and you finger print) . It is used to identify you to the police, and were the situation need it (exchange banks, oficcial things, etc). In fact, it had almost the same data of a driver card.

Sounds like a good idea to me, anything that helps the police.

I can't believe you guys! Do you work for the government to mold opinions, or are you just naieve and blindly trust big brother.

If you terrify the public and make them fear for their safety, they will allow you to implement draconian law enforcement practice, disarm them and keep extensive records on them, and they only have to tell you that it is all to protect you, of course.

This country is turning into a high tech controled prison. The American citizen is now the suspected terrorist. Guiltiy until proven innocent. (with an ID check)

We have the domestic spy service spying on citizens, but of course anyone familliar with the patriot act should know that by now. They wanted these powers for along time, way before 9/11. The patriot act was written before 9/11 even happened. Yes they already have plans in place to implement martial law and erase all constitutional rights.

"The United States may have to declare martial law someday," Downing said, "in the case of a devastating attack with weapons of mass destruction causing tens of thousands of casualties. This could mean that the military would be given the authority to impose curfews, protect businesses and communities, even make arrests."
-Retired Army Gen. Wayne A. Downing, who was President Bush's deputy national security adviser for counterterrorism (In U.S., Terrorism's Peril Undiminished
By Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 24, 2002; Page A01)

They want total control. They are using 9/11 to now justify implementing the new control grid. Soon we will have national ID cards, biometrics, even mandatory imbedded microchips. Would you be willing to require a mark or microchip to buy or sell?

"Is there a number or mark planned for the hand or forehead in a new cashless society? YES, and I have seen the machines that are now ready to put it into operation."
--RALPH NADER

Do you see how this threat of terrorists at your front door has scared you into giving up some of your freedoms for security.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Don't be so gullable. Once you lose those freedoms, you don't get them back.

"Ask the American public if they want an FBI wiretap and they’ll say, “no.” If you ask them do they want a feature on their phone that helps the FBI find their missing child they’ll say, “Yes.”"
--Louis Freeh FBI Director Testimony on the Digital Telephony bill, 13 September 1994.

When I read this I stopped reading your post. I will leave it at that.

Ah I see. Closed minded. No wonder you have no idea what's going on. But I jsut realised you are from London. No wonder you stopped reading. You don't know how America has changed since 9/11. You should read the rest of my post. You will learn somthing. Or maybe you are chicken, and can't handle the truth.

People like you are so infuriating. You are closed minded, nothing will make you change your views. Stop being a goddamn hypocrite.
No, if I read the rest of your post I will see more of your naivity, not mine and I that is all I will learn. For once I didn't start the name calling here.

You are truly sad. I used to be just like you a couple of years ago. I was a republican voting for Bush. I was behind the verichip the latest technology to implant a micro chip into the hand of everyone. It is a great technology until I realized waht they were going to do with it. Have you ever read the bible or are you to smart for that to. In Revelations during the AntiChrist there will be a mark you must accept in order to buy or sell. I'm a visionary. You just don't see it yet. I read all your posts. I'm not to scared to read opinions from all views even the uniformed and uneducated. They are manipulating you.

We have the domestic spy service spying on citizens, but of course anyone familliar with the patriot act should know that by now. They wanted these powers for along time, way before 9/11. The patriot act was written before 9/11 even happened. Yes they already have plans in place to implement martial law and erase all constitutional rights.

"The United States may have to declare martial law someday," Downing said, "in the case of a devastating attack with weapons of mass destruction causing tens of thousands of casualties. This could mean that the military would be given the authority to impose curfews, protect businesses and communities, even make arrests."
-Retired Army Gen. Wayne A. Downing, who was President Bush's deputy national security adviser for counterterrorism (In U.S., Terrorism's Peril Undiminished
By Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 24, 2002; Page A01)

They want total control. They are using 9/11 to now justify implementing the new control grid. Soon we will have national ID cards, biometrics, even mandatory imbedded microchips. Would you be willing to require a mark or microchip to buy or sell?

"Is there a number or mark planned for the hand or forehead in a new cashless society? YES, and I have seen the machines that are now ready to put it into operation."
--RALPH NADER

Do you see how this threat of terrorists at your front door has scared you into giving up some of your freedoms for security.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759

Don't be so gullable. Once you lose those freedoms, you don't get them back.

"Ask the American public if they want an FBI wiretap and they’ll say, “no.” If you ask them do they want a feature on their phone that helps the FBI find their missing child they’ll say, “Yes.”"
--Louis Freeh FBI Director Testimony on the Digital Telephony bill, 13 September 1994.

what difference does having an id card make?last time i checked,ids did'nt give off some superpower that stopped somebody from doing an attack!!!

Look here Mr Ed...what are you doing in the conspiracy section? You told about three people yesterday not to post their theories on the World Events Forum and told them to go post on the Conspiracy Forum. Should I now give you a dose of your own medicine and tell you to go post your establishment drivel in the world events forum? LOL

eat some oat meal ed,it will relieve all that brown tension you have built up!

Mr. Ed, for the sake of peace in this thread I'm going to ask you to stop posting as a favour to me. It will only lead to a flame war.

You yesterday asked these people politely to post in here rather than the world events forum, so you did not have to read their posts. Now, let you post in the world events forum and not here, so we do not have to read yours. It's obvious your stance will not change on the matter, so leave it be.



Do you think that could mean 9/11 was orchestrated or allowed to happen in order to justify allowing the patriot act?



You know, this holds terribly frightening parralels to Nazi germany pre-war...

I was going to stop, I can't stand such a high level of ignorance from some people.

Well your views are too fixed for me regardless of what I think of you, considering this thread. Not much point in a 1v4 argument

I do not wish to get into a flame war so please do not think this post is taking sides, I would like to add this one thought, the terrorist want one thing to drive the united countries apart, i can not say about the UK as i live in the US, but i do believe we need tighter control on somethings,It is so sad people will kill in the name of god,Our goverments are not the ones we are fighting, it is the reglious groups who want to destroy our freedom, they are the ones we need to be mad at, when we fight between ourselves we only allow them more power.If the goverment was not doing anything people would be mad about that as well there are no easy answers here,the only thing we can do is try to stand together and defeat these people, and i fear that will be easier said than done.

So then Isis you do see that we have a two-fold war to fight against...one a corrupt government that lied about WMD's and the Iraq threat to begin with...two...yes we must be vigilant against extremeist fundamentalists...like Pat Robertson...Jerry Falwell...Billy Graham etc. You see they are not just Radical Islamists right?

ID cards are a natural progression as a security measure in a world that is becoming overpopulated, and where in a multicultural society anyone can be a threat.

NO security measure is perfect, and likely never will be. But ID cards are a step forward. Do some of you people seriously believe that with all the hate and danger in the world, the government can continue keeping security methods and measures relaxed?

We are entering an era of super high-tech, and era that terrorists will be able to use to their advantage as well as the governments. If we do not tighten our measures and start getting a bit more clued up then it won't be good.

But to say as a result of this we will be heading towards a police state is just senseless paranoia exhibited by many of the zealots on this board who actually apply little logic to their "omg the government is out to get us" arguments. The state NEEDS to be policed... that is not the same as having a police state.

You are all just going to have to get used to the fact that as technology enters new phases, it is going to get easier for the government, and criminals/terrorists also to spy on us. Measures will have to be taken against this.

Lets just make it clear before some of you cry "omg you've been brainwashed" that I am as critical as anyone of the government and some of it's method. However I am also a realist, and ID cards are going to be the first step into an eventual progression to every government in the world being able to access every detail about you. It is sadly inevitable, though in my opinion not a conspiracy but an unfortunate necessity.

And Mr Ed you argue like a young teen... pretty embarassing really. Same with you Scoobysnack. Resorting to childish insult-flinging kind of destroys any attempt to look intelligent.

No richdog, I argue like an 'old' teen. I am seventeen.
I am intelligent and can argue better than many people my age.
Therefore I do not find the way I argue embarrasing, I argue for my age.



I don't know if that was directed at me, but I don't need to look intelligent. I am intelligent. This is the truth, I am not an amazing genius, but I am intelligent.


(Edit- I hope you say 'could have fooled me', because that will be really funny).

Resisting the temptation to sling further mud, I'll simply say:

Necessity? How would they have made the slightest difference to 9/11, Madrid or London? Particularly if it's our own governments that are behind it ...

From what i hear, the ID cards are useless anyways, in order to obtain one all you fundamentally need is a passport and a drivers liscence: the 2 most widely forged documents on the planet. If terrorists WANT an ID card they will GET an ID card, one way or another

Yup, that's the part where I switch off...

ID cards, however, will help with identifying people who should legitimately be where they are, and those who aren't. I never said they could have stopped the Madrid/London bombings, how could it when the system isn't even in place... but they may help with future bomb threats by making it more difficult for terrorist to move freely and remain undetected. A terrorist that has to kill for an ID card is more likely to be caught.

Here's a very good and unbiased article on how useful ID cards could be... http://www.tinyvital.com/BlogArchives/000797.html

Yes, the costs suck in a huge way, I can't stress that enough, and as with any system it will have it's faults, but the potential for them is there...

If I was overly worried that my government was spying on me, tapping my phone or invading my privacy; I would simply not break the law. Just thinking out loud.

Yes I agree with that statement about Mr Ed...very childish. Insulting people twice his age with twice the experience. Mr Ed...go to your room! W/O dinner.

Obviously you have picked up some bad experience then. It is a shame that when I get to your age we cannot argue as they you will feel I am on your level, as you will probably be dead. Oh well, maybe in the afterlife.

Thanks for the PM, they make good entertainment. I do not wish to talk about spanking with you though, I find it in appropriate when a man of your age pms me about spanking.


Back on topic now please, we were talking about the attack on London I believe.

No offense, Spycat, but when you label someone as immature or just young then turn around and say something childish; it puts a damper on your credibility.

I'm rather shocked, Mr. Spycat that you can send someone you don't even know a private message about being spanked, especially given your relative age differance..
The fact that you were feeling rankled enough to resort to such tactics only proves that Mr. Ed is a better foe in an argument than you'd like to give him credit for, and the very fact that you're resorting to mocking his age rather than anything of actual merit only bears out the weakness inherant in your own arguments..
I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but threatening or angry personal messeges do qualify as harassment under the board rules, So I'd urge not to get too wild with them, as a Mod will be sure to step in..

I am well aware of what you are saying,but please try to remember Saddam did have weapon's maybe not on the scale we thought, but he was a very danger;Too many people died at his hand; and if he did not have so much oil,the united nation would have charged him crimes against man a long time ago!, i do not agree with the reasons stated for going to war;but i believe we did the right think by taken him out of power,I do not think Saddam was a direct threat to us but i do believe he was a danger to our world,and no matter how much you do not like BUSH/BLAIR, they did the right thing, maybe for the wrong reasons but still it was the right thing, i am sure you will agree DC, that the people of iraq were the victims of a cruel man who was allowed to stay in power because the french, german and others wanted cheap oil;other wise they would have removed him years ago.

I've heard that most Continental countries have ID cards. I know the Germans have them.

Although I like to think that Britain is more democratic than the Continental countries.

I'm with you Isis..Even though i'd rather see President Bush hustled off back to Texas before he does anymore damage, as always; things could have been far worse..
I will say, that personally, any attempts to plant a microchip in my hand will be met with the sound of a shotgun blast; but as far as ID cards go; why does it really matter?Most people already have at least three forms of ID on them at all times anyway. What's a police card going to matter in lieu of that? I think this is just a typical government attempt to look like they're doing something more constructive than they actually are..
I'm well aware that if a large enough terrorist attack occurs martial law will be declared..But really, if the casualties and chaos are high enough what other logical choice would there be? To let people run around looting, burning and panicking in the streets? That doesn't seem altogether helpful in any way..
And although the Patriot act seems to some to have sinister overtones I have yet to meet a single person who's been directly negatively impacted by it, or seen the basic quality of life here change in any way as a result of it..
There's a few more buildings you need to go past security guards now, or require an ID badge to walk around in, but overall that's in response to unwanted intruders and not wanting to be blown up, not a direct result of legislation..
The Patriot Act seems to be one of those things where if you aren't doing anything wrong to begin with, it never really effects you..
Mistakes can and will be made within that system, but that's true of any law or legislation..
Sorry to sound so rational and balanced, but that's just how I see it..

if somebody tries to implant a damn chip in me anywhere that person is gonna have a really bad day.i wonder if the british investigators have been able to pull up any pictures of the bombing suspects?they should,it seems everywhere you look in england,there's a close circuit camera there.

the arguments against ID cards can be summarised in three ways: (1) they'd be no use whatsoever; how on earth would ID cards have prevented someone leaving a rucksack full of explosives on a train or bus; ( 2 ) they'd just give the police another excuse to stop and search anyone they thought was acting 'suspiciously' (i.e. being black or Arabic, say); and (3) there's talk of expecting us to cough up a considerable sum for the privilege of having one.

FALCO, i agree who cares about a ID card, hell you need one to write a check, use your visa, these cards mean nothing, now the chip that would be really different, i must agree as a mother i would never let this happen to my children or myself, even the theory of using then in kids to keep then safe if taken is BS, that would be the beginning of a new world order, I think the goverment needs to look like they have everything under control; So they come up with dumb things sometimes; and this makes the conspiracies nuts go crazy, it must be them it must be the goverment doing this,They want to control us all,People please they are only trying to find the answers just like the rest of us; This is a crazy holy war; not a goverment take over,OK they want use all to believe like they do! AND IF WE DO NOT THEN WE MUST DIE! that is the whole reason put very simple, easy to understand terms, No hiden meaning, i think everyone can understand that!

My prediction is that the ID card scheme will be abandoned because, by the Govt's own admission, they wouldn't have prevented these bombings.

Besides, they can't introduce ID cards until they've built all the prisons to house the tens of thousands of us who'll refuse to get an ID card on one principle or another

Even Charles Clarke admitted that ID cards wouldn't have made the slightest difference ...

If we all know that ID card's wouldn't have made the slightest difference to the London bombings, and the Government have admitted it wouldn't have made the slightest difference, then I can only assume there is another, as yet undisclosed reason for the Labour Government trying to push this through the house for the last few years, anyone got any suggestions?

Security? Whose, 'cause it sure as hell isn't ours, this is yet another means to erode our civil liberties and to make controlling us easier.

Snowball...all this "terror" jazz is just a distraction...those forces who brought us Nazi Germany are now bringing us the NWO...Terrorism helps them accomplish their goal, the real goal isn't to stop terror...it is to encourage it so we all will cry out to them to bring us the Police State. Terrorists...real ones...would not choose democrats and regular people as targets. They would target whom they perceive responsible for killing their brothers and sisters over oil. Its all a big powergame my freind.

Wait, how is Billy Graham a terrorist? I read that in an earlier post. Can someone please explain that one?

The people who brought about Nazi Germany were the Nazis.

I would love to see your face when in a few decades there is no NWO.

We are already living in it...but it is getting ready to make a big change.

The thing about the ID cards is that it is just a little step above drivers licenses. But that's just it, is just a stepping stone. It's the use of gradualism and problem, reaction, solution. The establishment is not trying to find the answers just like the rest of us, they are creating the problems, and watching us react to those problems. We then ask the government for help, and they present the preplanned solution which is what they wanted in the first place.

The implantable microchip is where we are headed. There are plans in place to use the RFID chip as a way of identification in the new cashless society. Check out verichip and learn about the technology.


source: http://ciberhabitat.gob.mx/hospital/verichip/

There is a plan to create the New World Order whether you want to believe it or not, you are living it. The only people who know and talk about it, are conspiracy realists and the establishment behind closed doors.

"There are two views of history: (1) History happens by accident or (2) It is planned. The general public is taught that history happens by accident. However, the upper echelons... know that history is planned."
-- R.E. McMaster The Power of Total Perspective

The new world order is accomplished by creating order out of chaos. As my favorite music group, Deltron 3030 says: Global controls will have to be imposed, and a world governing body will be created to enforce them. Crises, precipitate change.

In case anyone wants to listen to Deltron 3030 here's the link. The above quote, can be streamed or downloaded for free also. It is #7 - Virus

http://www.hieroglyphics.com/features/deltron_3030/

"The album evokes a sense of awe; a truly believable tale, undoubtedly meant to be played from beginning to end. It's wondrously layered with topics such as virus', turbulence and apocalyptic visions of the world, right on down to mass confusion from which of course leads to madness."

ID's cards is not such a bad idea but I don't think it will help much.
These cards will simply have information such as name, address, photo, thumb print & stuff, just like a drivers card or a passport, It would never carry information stating whether you are a terrorist or not, would it?

A terrorist could be anybody, even people who are well established citizens with upstanding reputations up until this point, not just any illegal Islamic immigrant. If terrorists want an ID card they will get one, the same way they get fake passports. It is impossible to check everybody everytime and all the terrorists need is one opportunity but I don't think an ID card will invade peoples privacy, many countries have it already but the idea of having a chip implanted in you is a different story altogether.

I do not believe and am not living it. I think it will be extremely funny when in 50 years there is no NWO.

Exactly: what's it going to say on them?: "name... whatever ... occupation... terrorist ..."?! Add to that the fact that none of the 9/11 hijackers had any previous criminal record, so they had no reason not to let their true identities to be known...

Labour, NWO or aliens from zeta reticuli.... Doesn't matter who's behind it, I still want to know how they're going to deal with all the tens of thousands of people like me who will refuse to pay an extortionate amount of money (current £93 and rising) for a totally pointless, useless ID card that will spend the rest of it's days forgotten and gathering dust in a drawer......