Im sorry to being a party crasher here but are you guys serieus or is this a joke, to make fun about harry?

?
How would any of this be a 'joke'? It's serious discussion.

I've been pondering the Horcrux theory all evening, thanks to jpalz for bringing certain elements to my attention.

I no longer believe, at all, that Harry can be a horcrux.

"Neither can live while the other survives" would be a direct contradiction to Harry being a Horcrux. Because if Harry was a Horcrux, Voldemort killing Harry would not be ensuring his immortality, it would practically be ensuring his death if another wizard came along and destroyed Voldemorts body. And also, if the only way to kill Voldemort was for Harry to die himself, then neither would live, both would die.

The prophecy is clear. Harry CANNOT be a horcrux.

There are more reasons of course. I'm sure like most readers of the book upon learning of Horcruxes, Dumbledore would have thought long and hard about Harry being a Horcrux and evidently did not believe Harry could be one, due to the fact he didn't mention it. Horcruxes are a serious business and even Dumbledore would not protect Harrys feelings if he knew or even suspected Harry was a Horcrux.

The English version was for 25 bucks over here if I remember that right. But I would've bought it even if it had costed twice as much. The Czech version is supposed to be out sometime next year and there's no way I'm waiting for that long. I never have and I don't plan on it.



It's happened to me a couple of times already that I judged from a picture and I thought that they chose wrong person for this or that character and when I actually saw them in the movie, they were excellent. Pictures are very, very deceiving. Fleur looks craps somewhere, and then she suddenly looks stunning on other pictures ... so I'm waiting for the movie with my judgement of her.



I think Dan is okay, but I can't help it and think about my all-time favorite Lord of the Rings when I see this scene in trailer - the close-up of Harry's face, his eyes slowly looking right ... I so see Frodo who's done the very same thing in RotK ... can't help it.



They may change it eventually - I still remember the first (I think) Chamber of Secrets trailer, there was Harry fighting the Basilisk and it was before they put the Basilisk into that scene so Harry was actually fighting thin air ... it was most impressive.

Snape's not evil. I believe it with all my heart. I've written a huge essay on this topic right after I have finished the book.



That's the spirit.


I think it's impossible for Harry to be a Horcrux. Voldemort meant Harry to die. He didn't think for a second that Harry might make it, and why in the world would he ever make the boy a Horcrux when he had intended him to die? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Not to mention that we're not even sure people can actually be Horcruxes. I just think that people wouldn't just make good Horcruxes because they can die, and the spell obviously ends with the death/destruction.



What I'm evenmore curious about is this snippet from GoF that JKR said will be explained eventually:

"For a fleeting instant, Harry thought he saw a gleam of something like triumph in Dumbledore's eyes."

fourm overlord asked me to spoil it...

lol

i like and dont liek that harry wont be in hogwarts next year. He will get a teacher for magic in his time (cliche)

Book seven really doesn't leave a lot of surprises to it after book six. There are some things you won't see coming, or that'll just happen out of the blue, but most major twists are already set in motion. For instance:

Rumor: Ginny will follow Harry and get herself killed.

Facts: Ginny has proven two things about herself excessively- that she doesn't listen, and that she'll do anything to get her way. There's at least three working theories on her using charms and potions to manipulate Harry into falling for her, and I personally didn't put it past her to have used all three after I read them. She's already gotten herself almost killed twice trying to prove she can jump into a lake and come out dry without magic, so maybe third time will be the charm either way...

Rumor: Dumbledore will continue to assist Harry in death.

Facts: If Dumbledore wanted Harry to know that he was still there for him from the afterlife, he would have shown that he has a way by now. As it stands now, the only definite way(as in 100% certain) is the headmaster's painting in McGonical's office, and it was sleeping when Harry was there. Also notice that it never asked for Harry. No, Dumbledore believes Harry's ready to finish this without him. However, Harry may find himself going to the painting on his own free will...

Rumor: Whether or not it's because he realizes allied, emotional or possible romantic links to Hermione, Voldemort is going to put an emphasis on killing Hermione that rivals Harry himself.

Facts: Whether or not Harry and Hermione ever become an item, no one can deny that he considers her second only to Dumbledore as an ally. Even higher than Lupin. Even higher than McGonical or Sirrius. He trusts her with things he wouldn't even tell Dumbledore, and he often took her advice over everyone else's. Think about that Harry hears her voice(not Dumbledore's or Ron's), his unwavering trust in her, their tandem in protecting each other... even without Harry's reaction to her getting hit by that curse in book five, no one denys that there's an allied tandem as well as possible feelings. Snape knows this, the Malfoys know this, and any death eaters who saw her fall in book five(as well as Harry's reaction) know this. If I was him, I'd make her a priority on my hit list, despite McGonical, Lupin and Shacklebolt still standing because of her influence over my #1...

Rumor: The final fight line-ups are:

Harry/Voldemort
Lupin/Greyback
Neville/Bellatrix
Ron and Hermione/Draco and Lucius Malfoy

Facts: Seems likely at first, but I don't see many of these happening. For starters, some of these fights are a bit... one-sided. For another, who's to say that all these people are going to be alive for final fights? They could be captured, killed by other characters, put in the hospital... These are the best major hero vs. major villain endings for a satisfying ending, but the fact remains that a lot could happen to change who faces who.

Rumor: RAB is Regalus Black, who Voldemort killed personally.

Facts: Despite insistences that it could be Borgin, Burkes, Blott or someone who'll first appear in book seven, Rowling kind of left it hanging on why Regalus was killed personally, which I find odd. After all, doesn't the Dark Lord advertise that you're his to kill personally and why when he decides that he's gonna do it himself? I need to go through that part again to figure out if they say his middle name, and if it starts with an A. Voldemort doesn't go after you without a good reason, and I really can't think of a better reason than someone stealing and destroying part of your soul...

Rumor: The real reason we couldn't find out the importance of Lilly's eyes in book six was because it's the central element of book seven.

Facts: Although no magical reason was given, we do know that Harry having his mother's eyes has a profound emotional effect on people who knew her. Book six was a good example of this when Slughorn gave up a memory of himself unwittingly helping the future Voldemort. However, Rowling did specify that it was a magical reason... I suspected that it was too big a reason to be revealed so early, and I have no problem believing this one at ALL.

Wait, when did that happen? I don't remember anything about that.

Yeah, nothing you mentioned about Ginny makes ANY sense. She never jumped in any lake, and if she used magical means to seduce Harry, Harry would not have been able to dump her. Plus ALL of her actions in the 6th book completely contradict those 'facts'.

i think ron will kill the werewolf (his name eludes me right now) that attacked bill so i don't really see him up against draco.
and i don't remember all that recklessness about ginny???

Ok, 1st of 2, please come back and explain some of this! We are all dying to know. I also want to argue the point about Harry/Hermione's bond. I would say that Ron was Harry's closest confidant, except when they had that huge fight in book 4.

I pit Remus up against the werewolf. I mean, not very imaginative, but it would fit.

Indeed, Harry says himself Ron is his best friend.

yeah remus fighting the werewolf would fit, but it would really be nice to see ron get revenge on the monster that maimed his brother.
that's what i'd wanna see anyway.

Hey, can I borrow your copy of book seven? It seems that every other copy on earth HASN'T BEEN WRITTEN YET!

You're taking that literally? Jump in a lake and come out dry means that she went out and did some really stupid things trying to get her way... for instance, despite her father's constant warnings about strange objects, she resorted to using Riddle's diary, not knowing where it came from and keeping it a secret. She almost died for it. In book five, she tried some really stupid crap not listening to the others and nearly ended up on the ground next to Hermione. In book six, Fred and George said that her strongest character trait was that she would do anything to get her way... In the original manuscript, they mused that she would make a good slytherin. I can give you the three-fold theory if you care, but something tells me you already made up your mind that you're going to call it "relationship basher crap".

There are ways to talk to the dead, other than the deceased being a ghost... almost everyone who's worked this theory said that it would not be like Dumbledore to stay completely in the shadows. If he was helping Harry as a ghost, he would have let Harry know that there was A presence, even if Harry did not suspect it was him.



But how much did Harry tell Hermione that he did not feel the need to tell Ron? How many times have they had private conversations that he tried to join in on and they either ignored him or changed the subject so they could finish later?

Being your best friend does not instantly make them your #1 confidence, and I would trust Hermione a lot more than I trusted Ron any day of the week!

Click for a rather detailed explanation of the relationship Harry and Hermione developed.






Good one!

Ron against Greyback- the second most incompitent wizard in Harry Potter(after Lockhart) up against a werewolf who's human self is insanely homicidal. I mean, don't get me wrong... I want to see Ron dead as much as the next guy, but to put it bluntly:

Neville has a better chance of single-handedly rounding up every last death eater than Ron does of lasting 30 seconds against Greyback(and that's with Greyback NOT using a wand).

It's already been implied that Lupin is the only one who stands a chance against him, in both wizarding experience and that Lupin is the only real match against him if we see him as a werewolf. A werewolf fight... Harry, Hermione and quite a few Phoenix members might be able to take him on in his human form, but I would put my money on Lupin- and he's already a werewolf, so he doesn't have to worry about being turned.

i'm glad you found that so amusing.
i said that's what i'd like to see, ron get revenge on greyback for mauling his brother. and who knows with his new found 'skills' bill could even help. i don't want to see ron dead fyi. but thanks for putting words in my mouth.

FirstofTwo, I still don't understand where you are getting the fuel for all this smugness. Ginny hasn't really seemed to behave any more rashly than any other of the kids. If I were going to point to any of them acting crazily, it would be Harry himself who takes the wildest risks.



I don't remember her father warning her "constantly". I'm sure Voldemort is powerful enough, that once Lucius dropped the book into her bag, he could manipulate her through no fault of her own.



What? What are you referring to? Is it when they were training against the Dark Arts? Because Ginny proved to be very competent.



Yeah, they are also her BROTHERS who run a joke shop that has candies that made your tongue swell. They aren't exactly Freud and Jung.



Well, you were already saracstically snipping at BurnSide about having a a copy of Book 7, so do you have a first draft of Rowling's? What do you mean by early manuscipt? And believe, Burns isn't "relationship bashing". The point of this isn't who will hook up with whom, your theories are just a little ungrounded.

And on the other point, obviously Ron is more important to Harry than Hermione. He loves her as a friend, but there are constant passages that confirm that Ron's her closest friend. The most obvious being that during the trial in the lake, Harry has to free Ron, who is "most important to him". I don't remember any conversations that Harry and Hermione had that Ron couldn't be a part of, but I can think of several the boys hid from her.

And finally, all that about Ron being unable to fight the werewolf because he is "incompetent". Is it just me, or does the author kind of tend towards impowering the little people in her stories? Dobby defends Harry, Neville defends Ginny, Harry himself has held his own against the most powerful Dark wizard. I think it would make perfect sense to see Ron come into his own to stand up for and defend his brother.

EDIT: spelling

Nice try, but read the chapter again...

Harry arrived, saw four people on the posts. He saw Ron, and automatically assumed that was his, and as he swam towards Ron, he saw Hermione and tried to save her first. The merpeople stopped him, and he started looking for ways to fight them to get her out before Ron. Ron was just sitting on his post, waiting for Harry to get him.

Question of the day... if Ron was so much more important, why didn't Harry fight to get Hermione out after freeing Ron?



No, no, no...

Burnside said he had a copy of book seven. Rowling said she hadn't even started it in her last interview, only a partial manuscript of the major points. He didn't even correct himself to say he meant book six.

On the other hand, Rowling has advertised quite often that, for a limited time after each book's release, you can get excripts of the original drafts to see omitted parts (such as nearly headless nick's sonnet about his death). When book six came out and I read their's, Fred and George said(in a humorless voice) that she was almost a Slytherin when she wanted something in the excript for Draco's Detour.



Once again, you're taking something and trying to turn it literal. In Dumbledore's office, when Dumbledore showed them the diary, Ginny's father turned beet red and yelled at her "What have I told you about trusting things where you can't see it's brain!".

In other words, Ginny had been told constantly to not trust magical objects, but she still trusted the diary, because the Riddle in it promised her Harry Potter. She relied on something she knew could be potentially dangerous because it promised her Harry.

On a similar note, how does compitency in magic mean you're not doing something stupid? "Arrogance is the best replacement for a spine" -Ted Bundy

Nothing really of what you've said are facts, they're insinuations.

Firstly, Ginny will follow Harry and get herself killed.
She has proven time and time again that she is a fully capable witch. If she wanted to manipulate Harry in such a way as well, she would have done it by now. She achieves her goals the same way Harry does, she takes a rational course of action. As well, just because she has almost accomplished her death doesn't mean a thing. Ron has a habit of sacrificing himself, has he come close to death? Yes. Does it make himself certain for it? Not at all.

Dumbledore will continue to assist Harry in death.
His painting not talking to him the moment he was there doesn't mean a thing as well. Stop trying to prove these as facts. It's just like the Chocolate Frog cards. They can't be around all day. There are other ways of communicating as well in the magical world. Remember divination.

Whether or not it's because he realizes allied, emotional or possible romantic links to Hermione, Voldemort is going to put an emphasis on killing Hermione that rivals Harry himself.
As with all of Harry's friends, Ginny, Ron and even Neville included. Voldemort's easiest way to kill Harry is to destroy the one thing he loves most. Which is his family. The Weasley's and Granger included.

The final fight line-ups are:
Never seemed likely to me, for the exception of Harry vs Voldemort. I can picture Bill and Lupin, and possibly Fluer taking out Greyback and the other misfits. I can't picture Draco even fighting, his actions on the tower has shown this to me.

RAB is Regalus Black, who Voldemort killed personally.
Seems very likely that it is Regulus, and his past has left many hanging, but it doesn't prove his importance to the story. I think someone at Mugglenet.com found out his Regulus' middle name, which had the initial A. Personally, I'm hoping to hear more about his brother.

[/i]The real reason we couldn't find out the importance of Lilly's eyes in book six was because it's the central element of book seven.[i]
That's what she said in for the 6th book. That it would explain the importance of the eyes connection.

Finally took me all night but I read the half blood prince!

*rubs hands together*

I have the most awesome theory about the Horcrux!

Harry Potter is the last Horcrux! When he was almost killed he got a ton of Voldemort's powers, right? So... that would have to mean he holds part of Voldemort's soul!!! Why do you think the Dark Lord ordered that Potter not to be harmed?

Kratos, read the forum.
You're approximately the 11 millionth person in the world to come up with that theory.

First of Two, what on earth are you talking about?? Where did i say, ANYWHERE, that i have book 7!? Considering that's impossible and all. If you read posts here like you read the books, it's no wonder you've come up with all these completely backwards ideas of your own.

In book 4, Harry KNEW Ron was what was taken, he didn't automatically assume anything. Dobby told him. He was afraid for the lives of the others becuase he thought they would die and he didn't want that.
But, Ron was what was taken, because Ron was what was most important to Harry. Magically, there's no whay that can be wrong. Not Hermione, Ron.

In regards to Ginny, if you'd stop saying things and then not expecting us to take what you're saying as REAL then we might be getting somewhere. You can't just say something randomly, like she jumped into a lake or was warned several times, and then take it back and say it wasn't supposed to have been taken literally.
In your argumentive sense, i could say Harry Harry and Ron are gay. Oh but, that's not ment to be taken literally.

As i said before, all of Ginnys actions in book 6 completely contradict anything you've said. If she gave Harry a love potion, why was she still with Dean for so long? Plus, Harry would not have been able to leave her.
She's sweet, kind, eager to help out as much she can, and a little naive. That's it. She's not a troublemaker at all, least of all the things you randomly came up with.


None of your facts are actually facts, so don't call them that.
The ACTUAL, ONE fact is, we know NOTHING about the next book at all, except what has already been give regarding the Horcruxes. Nothing else.

sorry. I had just finished with the book and I never had been to this thread before because it warned of spoilers...

No worries.

The theory that Harry is a Horcrux is a common one to come too, naturally. It all fits. Why, all the way back in book 2 Dumbledore himself tells Harry the reason he is a parcel mouth is because Voldemort, whether accidentally or not, seemed to have placed a part of himself within Harry when he tried to kill him.

I was quite excited about the theory myself at first, but the more i go to think about it, the less it makes sense.
Think of the prophecy.
"Neither can live while the other survives"

This would be a direct confliction with this Horcrux theory. If Harry was a Horcrux, then Harry would have to kill himself in order for Voldemort to die, and naturally Voldemort would not be able to kill Harry at all without possibly destroying himself. But the prophecy means that one will have to kill the other because they are linked in fake, one has to die so the other can live, rather than one has to live so the other can live. It unfortunately cannot be so.

A more recent theory, is that Harry is Voldemorts Horcrux, AND Voldemort is Harrys Horcrux. When Voldemort tried to kill Harry, his mother got in the way and died saving him. One can then argue that Lily died because of Harry, so the spell was created to make the Horcrux, both for Voldemort by killing James Potter, and for Harry by killing Lily Potter. SO in the end, one would have to kill himself to kill the other, but that one would then still live, or something to that effect. If Harry was to kill himself to destroy the Voldemort Horcrux, and then come back with the Horcrux inside Voldemort, he could then kill Voldemort.. i dunno it's all very confusing.

Just the very fact of this makes me think that now there is no way that it can be true. Rowling's never been that transparent with her storyline before. I mean, I thought the same thing myself and, feeling I was very clever, was sure I had out-foxed the author. But now that really seems the obvious "twist".

Plus, as you were saying Burns, the prophecy sort of doubles back on itself when thining that Harry would have to die to kill Voldemort.

I bet the truth will be a big surprise.

I bet so too. Nothing has been really 'prophecised' by the reader in the books up to this point, it's all been twists and directions we wouldn't expect, i don't think Rowling will dissapoint in the last book.

We could see Harry die in last book this would keep Rowlings from being trapped into writing Potter books forever

That's also a given, since it is 100% the last book, the only way to make sure there will be no more 'Harry Potter' books is to get rid of 'Harry Potter'.

Maybe he is the Horcrux, and Voldemort will kill him, while Voldemort still has more Horcruxes around and then the Dark Side will prevail and the world will come to an end. Now that would be a good suprise ending!

Yeah, but no, that wouldn't happen.

lol. Fine, then maybe she will make him a horcrux, because she knows that everybody would think that it's too obvious.

....

I just had a thought.. but i need some help with it.

I only have books 5 and 6 here, and on book six on the side (the official artwork version) there is a picture of the Slytherin Ring, the Horcrux in book 6.

On the fifth book, the item on the side is a Pheonix feather.

Can someone who has all books of the official versions tell me what the items are on the sides of the books?



7 books... 7 horcruxes...

by the side do you mean the spine? I don't have the offical versions, but I'm trying to find it on Ebay

Yeah, at the top of the spines there are images.

I'm from Australia so this might be different to the American versions.

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone: Some wizard dude, I'm guessing it's probably the guy who owned the stonhe, I forget his name.

Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets: An owl.

Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban: A wolf.

Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: Another owl.

The fifth one is currently lent out to a friend .

I hate Harry, he is such a loser.
Malfoy is cooler.

I've just checked mine and they're the same as kthxbye.

I see where you were going with that, Burns, and it was a good idea. And I hear Rowling has a lot of control when it comes to the cover illustrations, so it would not be too hard to imagine her hiding clues in them.

Hrmmm. I think those are different to the ones i'm thinking off.
I'm going to my parents later so i'll be able to see them all for myself.

It's just a thought, 7 books for 7 horcruxes. I wonder if we've even been completely off with them so far?

so did you check out the pictures? what are they? i think that's a sound theory...

Yes i did check them, they're the same as kthxbye said.

The first book, it's Dumbledore.
The second, an Owl, Hedwig.
The third book it's Sirius as a Dog.
The forth, another owl.
The fifth is a feather from Fawkes.
And the sixth is Marvolo Gaunts Ring.

So no, no clues there.

oh well...
my son and i were lamenting last night how long it's going to be before the final book...we're just going to have to wait...

i want it now!

I say give it about 18 months.
Hopefully during that time we'll see both Goblet in the cinema, and Order of the Pheonix.

I'm VERY much looking forward to Order as a movie, i think it'll be simply spectacular.
Wonder who they'll cast as Umbridge.

I really want to know who Bill and Charlie Weasley are, but their not on IMDB's cast list.

And as for Umbridge, I don't think their is anyone on this planet creepy enough to fit how I imagine her.

Oh i don't know. Really short, really fat? That's at least 1 5th of the world population of grandmothers.

I am more curious on who will play Harry Ron etc these kids are getting older than characters. They surely cant play these three for entire seven books!

Why not? Laurence Fishbourne recently played a teenager. And Culkin played a small boy when he was in his late teens.

It's called the miracle of special effects. If they really really don't look the part, and i don't see why not since they're only really one or two years older now than the characters in the books, the directors could just make them look younger through the miracle of cinema.

Although the question is, WILL they want to continue playing the characters? Their contracts are only for 4 years, so will they want to sign on for the rest?

I'm sure WB will do everything they can to keep the same kids. They would be shooting themselves in the foot otherwise. Just because they are aging is NO reason not to cast them. Hell, the girl who plays Moaning Myrtle is in her late 30's... maybe 40. That's a silly reason to give for not casting them, it's been done all the time.

Is she really!? I had no idea, i thought she was a youngun!

See!

Yeah, I just checked on the Internet Movie Data Base and she is 40.

Wow that's crazy!
I hope they didn't leave Myrtle out of Goblet of Fire. She's pretty important in it.

No, she was listed as a cast-member for it. She's there.