Joshua 10:12-13



Isaiah 38:7-8

There are a number of miraculous events in the Bible (the parting of the Red Sea, the mass resurrection of the saints following that of Christ) that would be localized events, but the celestial things should have been visible across the Earth.

So where, then, is the record of them? Ancient cultures were scrupulous about studying the heavens--indeed, their very survivial may have depended on it, knowing when to plant, when to reap.

So why aren't these events mentioned anywhere but in Scripture?

Who said it was for anyone else's eyes other then those who God wanted to see it.

A miracle to some is just a mere coincidence to others.........

Think of the tree falling in the forest bit.

Not saying your wrong, not saying I am right. Just a second thought on the same situation.

Hey Scorpio,



In reading Joshua it doesn't seem to be considered a localized phenomenon.

Elsewhere in Scripture (Genesis) it says that men were scattered across the entire Earth, so if this did happen, it surely would have been seen elsewhere.

Thanks for your response!

I can't believe that you're using the Bible as a historical reference.
That never works
even Velikovsky gave up on that idea and he got a lot closer to reconciling events with real history than anyone else imo.
The only people who claim the bible is accurate are those who have an ulterior motive for saying so.
aadditionally you can't take the few events mentioned in the bible as evidence that its 100% factual anymore than you can take a modern tv show based on a real event and say its 100% factual
http://www.knowledge.co.uk/velikovsky/ages.htm

I'm not! But there are those who do.



I agree



I'm not one of them, but I. . .know a few of them.



There are people who claim the Bible to be 100% infalliable, totally factual, completely true. Yet they cannot produce any unambiguouis evidence that points to the accuracy of Scripture, though Scripture itself claims to be without fault.

2 Timothy 3:16


If that's so, then where's the evidence outside the Bible?

There are people who claim the Bible to be 100% infalliable, totally factual, completely true. Yet they cannot produce any unambiguouis evidence that points to the accuracy of Scripture, though Scripture itself claims to be without fault.

you must be talking about cranks and fanatics cos i don't know any RC Priests that take the whole thing seriously especially the old Testament. And i know a few.

i now open the floor for the lunatic fringe to issue a rebuttal !!!

Actually, the people I'm talking about really wouldn't fall into the "crank" or "fanatic" catagorey. . .they're more like hardcore "true believers".

They insist that everything in the Bible happened, as it was written, exactly the way it says it was. The Red Sea parting, snakes and donkeys talking, Christ being the first to rise from the dead (though according to Scripture he wasn't), all of the other things not explainable by science.

But when asked for evidence. . .I'm told that if just believed it was true, then I would realize that it was true.

And, interestingly enough, some of those people who tell me that, have never (by their own admission) read the Bible.

Back from the dead first ?
i can think of at least 10 that did that before Jesus in 33ad
including Lazarus
how did they miss that

2 Kings 13:21



Acts 26:23



Most of them have missed it, along with much more of the Bible they haven't read.

Those that haven't missed it, and I've found there aren't many, say it's being taken out of context. That Christ wasn't the first to rise, but He was the first to rise after paying for our sins.

It still reads like a contradiction to me.

It is a contradiction. The whole book is. You just can't many believers to consider that because they have the whole, "You don't understand because you don't have faith."

I've heard about the sun standing still thing. There was a story or something going around that NASA proved it or something. Big Hoax

I wouldn't go that far
it is a good book
but some of the things its been used for aren't
the oldtestament is basically a new retelling of a lot of Pagan (christian terminology) stories and the new testament is a story about a bloke who told people to love each other instead of hating.
for which he was nailed to a tree
surely the only moral involved,
be warlike or we'll nail you to a tree
oh and don't claim to be the son of God
or we'll nail you to a tree
one more thing
upset your own people
and they'll get someone else to nail you to a tree

And, this should really be moved to the spirituality vs scepticism forum, since it is discussing religious beliefs, no?

That is supposed to be the message from Christ.

But then there's this. . .

Luke 14:26



Possibly nothing more than very extreme hyperbole. I've had Christians tell me that if you surrender your life to Christ it has to be a completel and total commitment.

But it makes me think what was thought of the Fifth Commandment: "Honor Thy Mother and Father".



One pastor I spoke to tried to dismiss the contradictions as "The Bible was transcribed by failiable men". And indeed it was, but that doesn't mean it was perfect to begin with.

My apologies. I'm new here and didn't know there was such a thread (I've since found it). I felt that this topic qualified as an "ancient mystery".

By the way, nice board here

Exactly

It was written by man as well. In my opinion it's just as valid as any other book written by man, just don't ask me to consider the most perfect thing ever created. Cause I know that's not true.

And that's where it runs into trouble, because the people who believe in it claim it's perfect, and feel we should live our lives according to it.

If you've ever read it, try to imagine such a world we'd be living in. . .it'd be different, that's for sure.

Oh I've read it. Living where I do it's everywhere. You're definitely right this would be a different world. I'd have been killed for something I did at least 10 times over.

Yes, it's amazing how those who feel the most strongly about adhering to every word in it don't realize they might be the ones with the most to lose by doing so. But as I said before, there are a lot of believer in the Bible who have never taken the time to read it for themselves.

Here's a study on it:

My Webpage

Discussion of the Missing Day in Earth's History (The Day the Sun Stood Still)

It is reported by historians that records of the Chinese during the reign of Emperor Yeo, who lived at the same time as Joshua, report "a long day." Also, Heroditus, a Greek historian, wrote that an account of "a long day" appears in records of Egyptian priests. Others cite records of Mexicans of the sun standing still for an entire day in a year denoted as "Seven Rabits," which is the same year in which Joshua defeated the Philistines and conquered Palestine. (Bible-Science Newsletter, Daily Reading Magazine - Supplement, Vol. VIII - No. 5, May 1978, Caldwell, Idaho.) Additionally, the historical lore of the Aztecs, Peruvians, and Babylonians speak of a "day of twice natural length."

In 1970, a story appeared in The Evening World, a newpaper in Spencer, Indiana, about a consultant to the space program named Harold Hill (deceased) citing that he was told a computer program had found a "missing day." Though the computer program story could never be validated, interesting speculations and studies ensued about what astronomical mechanism might result in the "Earth standing still" for 24 hours.

http://www.zetatalk.com/theword/tword16a.htm

Which historians?



Here's a ling you may find interesting regarding this, and Mr. Hill:

http://www.snopes.com/religion/lostday.htm

don't know, I just found that site the other day, then read this post today. That is why I included the link. Those aren't my words.

Sorry about not being more clearer on that, the storm was rolling in & i had to shut down.

The upshot GHOSTLY, is that the story is faked. Click the link to Snopes in post #20 for the lowdown.

And, Welcome to the boards Wayfarer. Enjoy your stay.

Thanks for the welcome! It's good to be here!



No problem, Ghostly. I hope everything's OK with the storm and all.

Where I am is miserably hot (Southern California). I've access to air-conditioning and a swimming pool but there are a lot of people around here who could ue a bit of that storm of yours.

[No problem, Ghostly. I hope everything's OK with the storm and all.

Where I am is miserably hot (Southern California). I've access to air-conditioning and a swimming pool but there are a lot of people around here who could ue a bit of that storm of yours.


Way,

I'm in New York State, it has been hot & humid here, the storms are a welcome. I'm usually a couple degrees colder then the city, it didn't feel like it. I'm not normaly a ac person, I love the windows open, this time I was the first one to hit the on button. lol

Welcome to the board.

"Believe nothing that you hear and only half of what you see" Pretty good advice, I think.

ER. . .OK with me.

I believe that anyone who completely dismisses any good contained in the bible on the basis that it is the bible and religion is bad...does themselves a dis-service. As Marduk posted earlier...it is a good book. It is a book of lessons on life and stories about the human condition that remain relevant even today...divine or not, the lessons and poetry contained within are works of genius. The problem with powerful works, however, is that they can be exploited...as the bible has been almost since it's creation.

There are verses in the Bible I like. . .Proverbs 31:20, for example. Most of Ecclesiates readily defines the human condition.

And to turn the last statement around, people have been exploited in the name of the Bible almost since its creation. . .certainly at least since it was assembled in its present form. There really isn't any way of knowing what the original manuscripts were like. One can only hope the intention behind them was as benign as Scripture is supposed to be.

I disagree
its easy to see the original stories before they were twisted around by christianity
at least as far as the old testament
they all appear in earlier cultures in their original format

With me?



There are numerous places in the Bible where it appears that something was "inserted" to liven up the narrative, such as the events in Matthew 27: 52-53.



In reading the Old Testament, in particular Genesis, I can't help but notice a similarity between the behavior of the "Sons of God"--Genesis 6:2, and the panthenon of Greek gods. And the Prometheus myth--a god who is sacrificed for mankind--somewhat parallels the crucifiction of Christ.

oh boy
ever heard of Mithras ?

Yes I have.

Much of what Christianity holds sacred seems to be devied from Mithraism.

I'd love to see the parting of the Red Sea too. And Jesus walking on water, but my favourite would be to see Jesus raise Lazurus from the dead and the Resurection.
That would make the sun standing still seem like a child's card trick.

There were more then that my friend. Remember before Christ rose from the dead Jesus brought back his buddy Lazarus from the dead. So lets think about this. Hmmm.....why would a smart man like Luke make such an error?
Well duh ! I see what Luke is talking about. And it didn't take long to figure it out. You have to think people! Jesus is the first. you see, the dude that touched the bones and Lazarus died again later on. Jesus was resurrected from death and remains resurrected! That's what the Resurrection is all about. Rising from the dead "Forever" not merely for a little while.
I should have continued to read the rest of the threads before I posted because anyone who has an ounce of smarts should have caught that.
Also whenever you see the word "scripture" in the new testament it pertains only to the Old testament. The authors of the new testament had no idea that what they were writing down would be considered scripture 300 years later.
Also lets not forget what Peter tells us in his second letter. That scripture can be a dangerous thing to the uneducated. Thier interpretation can lead many into error.
Just a word to the wise.

Yes, I'm aware of them. The example I cited seemed to more of an "after-the-fact" miracle rather than a deliberate demonstration of God's pwoer.



Where does it say he died again?

This whole thing is insane. The earth could not stop rotating without destroying everything on it. Gravity would cease, the magnetic poles would be thrown into chaos, etc.

Let's be reasonable, here.

Hey, Great White, when there's a miracle involved, all laws of physics go out the window.



I prefer to examine the evidence and draw a conclusion, whereas, as far as the acceptance of a miracle is concerned, there are those who decide unpon a conclusion, and then seek evidence to support it.

Sorry, as a former Chinese Translator for the military, I have a small knowledge of Chinese history. The period you speak of is during the Shang Dynasty, Almost all the written records of the Shang have disappeared, for the court records were kept on strips of bamboo. However, inscriptions on bronze and on the oracle bones still survive so we have specimens of the very first Chinese writings. In other words, there wouldn't have been any records to consult, plus I can find no Wang Yeo in any of the king lists (Wang means Emperor), sounds like a typical theist snow job to me. I would be interested in where the mention of a long day would be in Heroditus' writings. I would also like to see any information on Native American stories. Why didn't the Egyptians mention it? As I said sounds like a snow job.

This is a much refuted story......

Typical theist mythology. You made the incredible claim, now prove it....

Do you mean me? I didn't make the claim. I've been asking for proof myself.

So far, nada.

I'm sure this was mentioned, but don't read the bible so literly. The sun stood still could be a metephor for, the town stopped their day to day life to watch them win the battle.

Do any of you really believe the earth stood still? If so i have alot of land for sell, just pm me with your bank information!

see it must have happened
Klaatu Berata Nictu

Well that answer's all.

Considering the sun stood still during a fictional battle that never took place.....my guess is that it didn't actually stand still at all

(If you believe the battle took place, please provide archaeological or documentatary evidence other than the Bible )

do i win a goldfish

Doh! Forgot about that

I can't believe this whole thread is based on a passage from a book that true historians would dismiss as imaginatary retortic. If the Sun did 'stand still' for a day, then the rotation of the earth would've stopped and this planet would have been cooked and there would've been massive earthquakes, other natural disasters, and cosmic disasters. Earth wouldn't be here right now, or at least not the Earth we know it to be. God would not be stupid to stop the rotation of the planet just to prove he was all-mighty and all-powerful.

and it entirely negates the whole message of christianity which is you have to have faith in god.
if he was doing tricks like this every other week hands up who wouldn't be in church on their knees this sunday.
apart from me of course

You can have faith in a higher power but not necessarily have faith in the stories of the bible, which I believe were stolen from of other cultures and changed to the world of that time.