I can't think of any form of geological surveying that'd mean digging hundreds of adjacent holes into the bedrock like that.

Perhaps the ancients were actually very, very stupid?

Well, did you ever work with Geo Survey? No. So that may be why you cannot make the leap to just how great we once were.

Apparently you can't either. Remember you were questioned about your experience and could only say " I don't remember." Poor thing.

The answer for any question's is, *I can't or very soon*. So you might as well get use to it, That is the only answer your going to get from Ron.

Back on topic

You know, those holes from afar resemble something like tracks of a moving vehicle.

I would appreciate it if you Isis would not respond to any of my posts any more.

There are others who truly want to discuss the topics and I would also. So please and thank you.

O

Ron, Your in a open form, Just because you do not agree with me or anyone else does not mean they can't post here!

I just wish people would stop attacking Orion von Koch and let him discuss things without going "Ron... you don't know anything" type of statements. By the way, if this gentlemans actual name is Ron... you've done something highly illegal by claiming it... it's called the privacy act.... and Marduk... you almost never seem to post anything worth while except for what you can google... oh wait... you tell us to wait for your book to come out... whenever that is...

Marduk, no longer post on UM.. He closed he's account about a week and half ago.. Just so you know.. your wasteing a good flame on someone no longer here.


Your wrong about the law, It was Ron who used his name first not me!

What MArduk left?? Thats odd! I thought he might just be taking a break from UM. thats too bad

marduk left? hm...

Yes Marduk. Is no longer posting here! But he's doing very well and working hard on his book..

I have already writen four books...how long does it take? Well they were not very good. One on Graphic Arts, one on Special Effects, One on Existence and the one online...The Enigmni.

I do better doing illustrations for publishers. I'm retired anyway. Isis..it is ok to post here...I was just in a bad mood that day.

Holes?

yes, made by vampires.....

The holes that you speak of are easily explainable. Many religions in South America believed that holes were a path to the underworld or heaven/hell if you will. More specifically the Mayans believed this to be true. In fact they believed that holes, caves, and even bowls were portals to the underworld. This fact should certainly be considered when questioning the purpose of these "mysterious" holes.

Also, mentioning Van Daniken's name is a quick and easy way to destroy all credibility. Van Daniken is a fraud and a hack. His theories are never supported by actual science. He often deliberately misrepresents facts in order to push his misguided beliefs. Just one example is his misrepresentation of this photo: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/anarchisthip...79b.jpg&.src=ph

He says it must be an ancient astronaut, but fails to mention (or just does not know) that it is actually a depiction of Pacal being taken into the underworld. Pacal was a Mayan king around 600 a.d. The entire sarcophagus must be viewed in order to know what is really going on there.

The fallacies of Van Daniken are far too large to list here, but just a quick search of his name will bring up many, many reputable sites that thuroughly debunk almost everything he has ever written.

I had to think about this picture when you mentioned those holes...

Eric is a thinker out of the box. It is good that he has fired the mentality of those who can think beyond their books. As a former university administrator and teacher, I know how silly the game is...it is not over...there are other facets of discovery that we have not explored. Expand your universe...think large. The holes I speak of are not easily explained...they are indeed an enigma that no one is willing to address. You have not seen them and they are not hole to another universe. Go to your old National Geographics and find them. then tell me how easily you can explain them.

Depends how thoroughly you do the research - several months or even years for a proper acedemic good book. A few days for the likes of Von Daniken etal

Actually, I have seen them and the are quit easily explained. As a stated above it is widely accepted that they served a religious purpose. I never said they were "hole to another universe", but I did say that many civilizations in South America, more specifically the Mayans, believed holes, caves, bowls, etc. were portals to the underworld.

As far as "the game" being over, it is and has been over for van Daniken for a while now.

If you have seen the holes, please describe them to me. How many are there, and how are they set up. Do they go over hills and etc. How wide are the holes....???

I have to agree with Denzanrom; they look like tracks from a giant wheel or something like that.

Sorry if that doesn't fit peoples' theories, but that IS what they look like, especially from a distance!

I agree they look like tracks from a giant wheel. what do you think they are from Ron?

could it be possible that we are over-addressing these holes? if we try to think like the peoples of neolithic times i think that we can come up with a few reasonable hypothis'.
1. neo lithic people they were. new "stone age" stone and sand can grind stone quite well.
2. we are used to the ancients building structures with stone. it makes more sense to ask "before stone what did they use for building" the answer may be wood. wood is easier to work, and build with than stone. can you imagine the kind of forests that would have existed then? man may have cut them all down as evidensed by the forests of lebanon that once existed in dense groves. this tree clearing could have eventually led to climate change. could the arid regions of south america have once been forested? could the dry, hot north africa desert once been wetter and more temperate? the anser in africa is yes as evidensed by some very early egyptian settlements that have been unearthed in western egypt. they possibly used a long wooden log on top of a boulder or other rock and then turned it in circles, granite, or basalt would have done the job nicely.

a. used for defenses? i know i wouldnt want to fall in one.
b. used for a foundation for wooden pilings? pilings are wooden poles rammed into the ground to sometimes stabilize a bog or other low land that is susceptible to flooding. EX: venice is built on pilings.
1. for a dam?
2. for a wall? a wall with a highway on top? maybe it was easier to cut holes and insert wooden trunks of trees, than to cut large square stones to fit together to make a wall.

c. used to trap animals?
d. used to store water?

what ever the explaination, it would have taken a considerable work force, akin to building a pyramid at giza. what a better way to occupy idle hands? buildsomething nationalistic!! keeps everyone out of trouble too. especially if it contributes to their defenses.

maybe before peoples started building out of stone they built huge cities from wood. INDIANS IN NEW ENGLAND BUILD LARGE STRUCTURES FROM WOOD. THEY WERE NEOLITHIC PEOPLE.

My friends, we have been extremely advanced in the past...these holes are from a drilling machine and I know whereof I speak. Humanity should be fed up with the darwinists who position us as dumb...sorry...we are as dumb as those who positon thusly. Oh, heck...I must go.

That is your opinon. You have nothing to prove your case. You believe in the likes of Von Daniken . That doesn't help you at all.

This is not opinion my friend...it is built upon silver bullets...such as the Mica in Mexico...the high speed drilling of very ancient stones of high density that require drills of highly advanced technology. Ooparts are all over the world...and you are not even seeking them out...you just buy into the same old stuff.

Not so advanced if they drilled hundreds of holes in close proximity in one tiny, tiny area for no apparent reason whatsoever, and nowhere else on Earth........

Or maybe a bunch of monkeys pinched the machine and started playing about with it?

It's an opinion based on selective evidence - just like most alternative (and, to be honest, quite a few orthodox) theories.

kinda reminds me of arlington cemetary, wiht the rows and rows of crosses.

Ron O. Cook .............Ron O. Cook........Ron O. Cook

you here?

Hello Orion,

All this talk about a line of holes running over the Andean mountains.
Perhaps you should read the next booklet:

"The Nazca Lines - A New Perspective on their Origin and Meaning" by Johan Reinhard (4th edition - 1988 - Lima - Peru - ISBN 84 89291 17 9)

His conclusion about these perfect lines and gigantic petroglyphs is that they were created for rites honouring water/mountain-gods/fertility/agriculture. And he was present in Chile during the creation of one of those lines.

My guess (and nothing more than that) is that this line of holes serves the same purpose(s).

I have another question (see quote): you talk about 'giant pyramids' in the Amazonian jungle. Can you give me/us a link to a site with pics? Up to now I've only read about them in a book about Colonel Fawcett and in a book of Karl Brugger (Chronicle of Akakor - a hoax, btw).

Abe.

The lines and the holes are extremely ancient...anyone stating they were present when they were made is out of his head.

What a horrible attempt at philosophy.

Strange number...not unlike 666...to each his/her own...consequence, the law of.

I have often envisioned a point of observation somewhere outside of myself that lets me see all that makes virtual existence and “life” understandable to the average human intellect. Everything that has made entities what they are comes into a focused vision that details the total life-spectrum — here is the point-of-departure to discover reality or timelessness. One wonders how a being who did not create himself do such a thing? To stand outside of one’s self is impossible – yet, imagination allows such.

Certainly this attempt could be an Angel's viewpoint, that allows me to determine where I need to apply emphasis and utility for others to see the relevance of existence in Time/Space…but I am no Angel…just a part of the whole. But we all have been given the ability to move or leverage thought as well as mater to determine our futures. Leveraging mentality is almost everything in physical “be-ness.” It is directly proportional to survival.

We are here to move in and through matter. Why is it so hard for lesser beings to know how moving the parts of this grand machine can create chaos unless total concentration of mind is applied properly? We must know the larger view of who made the lesser or reverse. Even this, being “made” may be unnecessary when one considers Timelessness. This study requires a trek in this physical realm and all its parameters of apparentness. We may have always been, and do not know what always means. What if there is no such thing as creating, where there is no mind to move? Therefore, mind is necessary if movement of such establishes linear Time and then Space to allow the presence of Time. Finally, through the realization of ourselves, enlightenment establishes a point of departure where we can understand the source of Timelessness. It has always been. It is the Is.

Everything is entwined within the light of the mind, which must move to know itself. Everything is Mind in motion…thus creating essence. This concentration within broadcast gets each and every minuscule elemental into leveraged motion that creates event-sequences locked in time and space. The goal is not to lose status, position, or self-control for “be-ness” in motion. If there were a loss, then becoming would not be the goal. To not create on the FLY is to suffer loss of leveragability. Those who do not move, die. Defeat is possible through acceptance of fear, loneliness, victimization, the void, or nonexistence. Defeat would also make us a casualty of our own lack of moral disposition. Here we open up the power to being defeated over and over if we do not become through the dawning of higher mental patterns of thought.

Seriously, would you please just stop it?

I am very thrilled that you have theories on life and the meaning of everything. This thread is one that's talking about holes in the ground, not life and motion and whatever else you wander off into espousing viewpoints on.

As it stands, you're being decimated by Murduk (I apologize if I spelled your screen name wrond, "mud duck" as you were rudely called in this thread) on a point by point basis and you're not even trying to offer anything real to provide evidence for your case.

There is no gestalt mentality here...perhaps later.

Still those holes in the Pisco Valley hold an edge as a silver bullet to Archaeology. Something strange happened there and no one wants to address it.

It's a big alien Lite-Brite. Cleatly.

What?

I have as much proof for my claim as Orion does for his.

yes, established archeology doesnt like the tihuanaco site due to the questions it poses. Nobody can accurately date the site to within the 'accepted' time frame . And I think your right, the significance of the remains have yet to be truly appreciated.

What questions? It was settled around 400BC and the city was established in earnest around 200BC. No mystery there unless you make one up Daniken style.

a bunch of holes in the ground are proof that aliens created man?>this thread is wierd.
The ancient Peruvians had a custom of burying their dead in holes like these. Mummified remains have been discovered all over Peru and in extraordinary locations like on the tops of mountains.
The Peruvians also made human sacrifices to their gods. They would take their victim to a preselected spot which could be anywhere, dig a hole, kill the victim and stuff it into the hole.
The peruvians also stashed grain in holes like these. They were particular in the type of ground they chose for the hole - it had to be rock in order for the grain to be kept dry.
Along many of the old Inca roads can be found holes like this which are now known to have been used as grain stores for travellers.

if the Pisco holes were 5,000 feet deep like one would expect from some form of ancient drilling then you may have attracted my interest.

yes and when those same scientists can explain how a tribal culture suddenly developed the ability to cut and drag blocks of stone weighing in excess of 100 tons from quarries on THE OTHER SIDE OF LAKE TITICACA to Tihuanaco then throw them around like skittles and then create an architectural wonder, only then will I concur.

Here's one way:
http://www.archaeology.org/interactive/tiw...experiment.html

This is the home for the dig:
http://www.museum.upenn.edu/new/research/E...questions.shtml

Here's some further reading that may illuminate you:

“The Gateways of Tiwanaku: Symbols or Passages?” in Andean Archaeology II: Variations in Sociopolitical Organization, edited by Helaine Silverman and William H. Isbell, Plenum Press, New York, 189-223 (2002) (with Jean-Pierre Protzen).

“La cantería de Pumapuncu” in Wari y Tiwanaku: Modelos versus Evidencias, edited by Peter Kaulicke, PUCP Pontifica Universidad Católica del Perú, Lima, Perú, 5:309-336 (2001) (with Jean-Pierre Protzen).

“On Reconstructing Tiwanaku Architecture.”Journal of the
Society of Architectural Historians, 59 (3):358-371 (2000) (with Jean-Pierre Protzen).

"Who Taught the Inca Stonemasons Their Skills? A
Comparison of Tiahuanaco and Inca Cut-Stone Masonry." Journal of the Society of Architectural Historians, 56 (2):146-167 (1997) (Jean-Pierre Protzen, with S. Nair).

I don't know what is meant by suddenly because the site dig shows slow and steady development and occupation for thousands of years. The earliest dedicated stone construction of the city was around 400bc but its pinnacle wasn't until around 500ad and continued to 950ad (newest estimate). More than a thousand years conservatively. Nothing too sudden. Another thing not mentioned often is there is a lot of mortar inlay at the site. Not everything was on the technical grandeur of the gates. Everyday construction was probably conducted quite quickly but for things that held stupendous spiritual significance it would completely understandable if they spent years to move the largest stones as some monuments remain incomplete. The 10,000+ year old civilization camp consistently devalues the amazing ingenuity and accomplishments of ancient cultures by ignoring evidence to make their conclusion and rely instead entirely on speculation.

I'll read it when I wake up. But tell me one thing, are these just theories on ways they could have possably done it, or is it prooven that they've done it this way? Because of course if you look hard enough, sooner or later you'll find a way that they could have possibly done it. Usualy very unlikley ways as well. But that in no way, means that they did it.

If I had dirty underwear found in my backyard, you could come up with a theory as to how they got there, but just because that theory is possable, does not mean that's how it happend. So, tell me, are you just trying to open us up to another possability, or convince us that this is how they've done it?

Read Reinhard's booklet first before you judge:

The Nazca Lines - A New Perspective on their Origin and Meaning" by Johan Reinhard (4th edition - 1988 - Lima - Peru - ISBN 84 89291 17 9)

THIS guy is certainly not out of his head, he actually made photographs of the construction of one of those lines in Chile.

But if this would disturb a nice dream, then you'd better not read it.

Abe.

Hello Orion,

I had this question, maybe you'll remember : in an earlier post you talked about 'giant pyramids' in the Amazonian jungle. Can you give a link to a site with pics? Up to now I've only read about them in a book about Colonel Fawcett and in a book of Karl Brugger (Chronicle of Akakor - a hoax, btw).


Abe.

You can either choose to believe that aliens came down and planted the underwear at your location, or you can choose to believe that the underwear got there through more mundane means.

These are theories in the way the task could have been accomplished using what was available at the time. Extraterrestrial help was unlikely to be one of those things. If your underwear is on the lawn, your first choices should include manners in which we know that they could have gotten there (not necessarily 'did', but 'could'). Aliens are very far down on that list.