Oh. Excuse me while I jump off a tall building.

*Neeeeeeeyooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh - SPLAT*

It was such a terrible thing... killing alot of innocent people, but times CAN and HAVE changed.

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Have changed? The Doomsday clock has been moved up to 5 minutes to midnight because of the increasing threat of a new nuclear age...

Also, I used this in my blog hope no one minds: http://theurbanbee.blogspot.com/

No one will mind

It's absolutely true. I've been to Hiroshima and seen it first-hand. A sobering sight.

Yes , actually they are real my grandfather wnet and said they were there, but idk if it true though.

this is true,you can see shadows of people that disentegrated very fast.

At least at Pearl Harbor most of the people that died were soldiers... dropping a bomb like that on civilians is vile.

-Pol

Well after viewing the pics theres no doubt this is true.But how did peoples shadows actually burn into the ground?

You do know what a total war is, right? If by innocent you mean "they have yet to pick up those rifles and pitchforks they were ordered and told to pick up when allies land for the invasion of Japan," then yeah, they're innocent. But they're no more innocent than American civilians working in the factories to build bombs and bullets, or German civilians working to build poison gases to exterminate the Jewish population, or Soviet citizens for building their tanks. Though one can never be sure without it actually having happened, there is reasonable evidence to suggest that an invasion of Japan would've cost more lives, both civilian and military than the two bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima did. We know how the Japanese fought for those secluded Pacific islands, we know how they told their citizens to commit suicide rather than be captured by the Americans because they were told the Americans would rape and murder them, so how do you think they would've fought for their home?

Can you honestly blame a nation for trying to save the lives of their own people if it meant using the nuclear weapons to end that brutal war?

But hey, if you like the brutality of conventional and non-conventional tactics the Japanese used and think it would've been a fun time if we had instead invaded Japan, then I'm sure not dropping the two bombs to end the war as quickly as possible seems like a good idea to you.

People forget, this was a world war. There is no nice guy or bad guy. The nations involved were in a state of total war. Total war is a conflict of unlimited scope in which a faction mobilizes all available resources in order to destroy their rival's ability to defend themselves. In a total war, every person from a particular country, civilians and soldiers alike, are considered to be acceptable targets (both by the Axis and Allies). That means factories that were once used to make refrigerators, are converted to make bombs. Factories that were once used to make bug-sprays are converted to make poison gas. And guess who makes those weapons? You got it, the innocent civilians.

War is bad. Always has been, always will be. I guess you're right, though. We are vile in that we're human.

And the attack on Pearl Harbor wasn't vile?
BTW, that's war for ya.

Ya hit it right on the head Roughneck!
Forgot the part about total war, thanks for bringing that up.

I have no empathy for soldiers dying, it's part of their job. As far as I'm concearned they died when they registered.

-Pol

the men/women in the military that protect your ability to sit and type your inane thoughts deserve better

It's not about empathy. I have no empathy for conscripted soldiers anymore than civilians making weapons for their country's war effort. As far as I'm concerned, those civilians were dead as soon as the bombs they built were dropped on Pearl Harbor. As far as the Chinese were concerned, those civilians were dead as soon as Japanese soldiers raped and murdered Chinese civilians in Nanking.

Well, if you want to post blame, you'd have to go all the way back to WWI. Japan fought on the side of U.S. and the U.K. After the war, U.S. and U.K promised Japan reparations (from Germany) and trading rights in Asia [remember that Japan has a dearth of "natural resources"]. U.S. and U.K reneged. In fact, as Japan was attempting to industrialize, U.S. cut off trade with Japan. It was in this economic malaise [U.S. severed trade right in the middle of the Great Depression] that allowed Japanese warlords to overthrow Japan's attempts at Western-style republican democracy. The warlords - being as they were warlords - decided that the solution was to seize resources by force, so they entered into Chinese Manchuria, cooked up a "false flag" plot, blew up their own railroad, and then blamed the Chinese. Then, they withdrew from the League of Nations and entered Manchuria with military force - for iron, coal, maybe other resources. Interesting snippet I picked up in a documentary. One Japanese soldier said (my paraphrase): There were so many of us (Japanese) with so few resources that we (Japanese culture) did not put a high premium on human life. As it was, we were so numerous that we felt that we could wage war, have a die-off on both sides. It was acceptable.

Some links: Hiroshima, by John Hersey.

Also: BBC Hiroshima Docu-Drama (at Mininova). The BBC production features a dramatization of the American airmen as they prepared the bomb, and Japanese civilians before and after - based upon journals, diary entries, and interviews with survivors. One really touching scene (brought tears to my eyes), a mother was trapped under debris while a fire moved toward her 4 year-old who begged mother to save the child. Mother could not...

War is hell. WWII was hell for all concerned. Lets not say that Truman was right or wrong. Let's just agree that he made an executive decision that may have shortened the war, but at the cost of hundreds of thousands of civilian lives, and disease among their descendants.

1st Edit: About Pearl Harbor. Japan's war ministry sent a declaration to their ambassador in Washington DC to relay to U.S. State Department. The Japanese ambassador to the U.S., well his secretary was sick. So the Ambassador, being a proper gentleman, had to decode the declaration, transcribe it, and TYPE IT. That took hours. Plus, Japanese war ministry had not adjusted their schedule for TIME ZONE differential. That's why it appeared to be a sneak attack. There is also speculation that President Franklin Roosevelt knew that the attack was imminent - but that he chose to be ill-prepared in order to assure that the U.S. would enter the war to assist the Allies against Germany.
Finally, please research American opinions of Japanese before WWII. By and large, the West believed Japanese to be "an inferior race" who lacked the capability to fly aircraft - much less build them.

The Japanese supreme command - they never even ventured to hope to defeat the U.S. They thought that they could fight for a few months (maybe 2 years) then sue for peace and gain some territories and resources to assist development.

But the real crux is the time delay moving the Japanese Declaration of War to U.S. State Department. One hour was the difference between a "legal war" and "a date that will live in infamy."

Here's a link alluding to pre-WWII American perceptions that Japanese were racially inferior: Backdoor to WWII
Easier still: dig up some Warner Brothers Bugs Bunny cartoons or Disney cartoons from the time period. You'll get a good handle on American perceptions of Japanese in the 1930's and 1940's.

I also carry WWII war propaganda (for teaching WWII) from U.S., U.K, Canada, and Germany. You should see the American stuff about Japan: "Jap hunting licenses" and so forth... Really vile stuff. But it shows the intensity of the rage from the American side, a rage that the government used to focus the war effort for victory...

Who's posting blame? I won't pretend to blame anyone especially considering the effects the Great Depression had on people worldwide. I just don't play to the tune of innocence the way others do. I've already outlined this when I've said they were no more innocent than Americans.



How does that change what I've said?



That justifies their actions? By the same logic, we can't be held to blame for what we did to Japan, or anyone, really.



I don't require a history lesson. We're discussing about the decision to end a war and the views of innocence on a specific population just because they happened to be citizens of a country in a state of total war, not on how the president waited for a reason to go to war with Japan.

Sorry, Roughneck. I guess I misinterpreted your post. And I wanted to vent. Have a good day!

If someone already said this my bad i dont have time to check all but I think that it could something like the immense heat burn the imprint of the item into the object where the shadow is seen that was my scientific reason my paranormal is that there souls and flesh and all that has binded with the object because of the immense heat.

I have been to Hiroshima and the war memorial there, it is an experience I will never forget that highlights the atrocities of war.

I can say for certain that your teacher was telling the truth and I have seen the shadows for myself. The memorial is built around one of the few remaining buildings that survived after the blast called the A-Dome. You can't get too near the building due to residue radiation, but the shadows are definately there and there are heaps displayed in photographs throughout the museum. It was a pretty horrid exhibition with lots of graphic photographs and ever wax statues showing people with their skin being melted off. I will never forget it and I pray to God that the world will never have to see anything like it again.

There are far worse ways to die than to be vaporised instantly...

Not totally related to the topic, but on searching for Hiroshima pictures I found this advert. The picture is obviously not from that day, it conveniently fits the ad-mans needs, but I find it rather poignant.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've been to Hiroshima and seen them. They're absolutely, sadly real.

When the bomb went off there was a microsecond when things got hotter than the sun. People who were on the street vaporized/disintergrated. But the time it took for their remains to fall to earth was longer than the time of max heat. The chemical remains of their bodies were still hovering in the air when things started to cool down. They cast a shadow. The concrete around the shadow melted but it didn't melt as much were the light was blocked. The shadows are slightly raised because some of the heat was absorbed by the bodies that cast the shadows.

It's a ghastly experience seeing this stuff. One thing to remember about it, though, is that Germany and Japan were also working on the bomb. Physics had evolved to the point where the possibility of nuclear weapons was obvious to many physicists. It's not like the United States was more EVIL than other countries. We just succeeded in inventing it first (this is one of the things I learned touring the Hiroshima memorial).

Agreed very strongly. They deserve everything they get.

Did the people know this was coming. Like did any of the Japanese know this was going to happen so they could evacuate as many as they could or wa sit a surprise thing

Are you implying that if someone decides to become a soldier that they deserve to die.

Disagreed, very strongly. I'm sorry but that was one of the stupidest things i've read in a long time, The people who fight for you and your country are some of the bravest in the world, they know that death could very well be part of the job but they sign up anyway to fight for what they believe in. They are better people than you will ever be, not cowards who don't appreciate what they do for you.

You owe your rights and freedoms to the men and women that sacrficed there lives to protect your sorry excuse of a life. You should be ashamed for what you said and honestly you disgust me to point i never new existed.

The japanese knew that the planes were coming but do to the small amount of aircraft the blew it off thinking it was just a recon mission. They did sound the air raid alarm but moments after they decided that it wasnt anything to be concerned about the gave the all clear. The second bomb that drop they knew about, they dropped leaflets and sounded the air alarm and the U.S. even told them that if they didnt surrender that there would be more desturction. The japanese didnt act or didnt believe it and when the planes hit the radar they dissmissed it as another recon mission. Hirohito recorded on August 14 his capitulation announcement which was broadcast to the Japanese nation the next day despite a short rebellion by militarists opposed to the surrender.

In his declaration, Hirohito referred to the atomic bombings :

“ Moreover, the enemy now possesses a new and terrible weapon with the power to destroy many innocent lives and do incalculable damage. Should we continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.
Such being the case, how are We to save the millions of Our subjects, or to atone Ourselves before the hallowed spirits of Our Imperial Ancestors? This is the reason why We have ordered the acceptance of the provisions of the Joint Declaration of the Powers.

P.S. this is all shortned and simpflied and I think its worth looking into as its the only 2 times a nuclear bomb was used in war.

actually i believe that they did warn them to surrender or they wouldbomb the cities, but the japanese didnt do anything

They did but they didnt mention the a-bomb though. Thats why the japanese didnt feel a threat when they noticed the small amount planes coming. They didnt figure that it was a air raid since at that current time air raid usally had many planes involved.

Very Cool!

/RANT...at this point I could care less if I get banned....

You two are a pair of ignorant f....

If you can't respect, or support the men and women who have chosen to protect our rights, as stated in the Constitution, including the right to say whatever you want, then get the hell out of my country.

Remember all of our rights are actually privileges.

And if you think that it would be so much better without us, then go live somewhere where free-speech is oppressed, where you can get shot for speaking your mind...hopefully ridding this planet of your idiocy.

On another note since this is about world war two, if the military wasn't around then you would be speaking a mix of German, Italian, and Japanese.

/END RANT

On a final note..the things that happened to the Japanese civilians is horrendous, and I cannot even begin to imagine the pain and suffering that they went through, and although it did lead to the end of the war in the Pacific Theater, I wonder if something else could have been done.

The civilians probably didn't feel much of anything when the bomb hit. Hiroshima was described as "an important army depot and port of embarcation in the middle of an urban industrial area and the city of Nagasaki had been one of the largest sea ports in southern Japan and was of great wartime importance because of its wide-ranging industrial activity, including the production of ordnance, ships, military equipment, and other war materials. So they weren't strictly civilian places and had strategic values.
They wanted to bomb the Emperor's palace in Tokyo but it had little strategic value. Kyoto was on the list of places to be bombed but was left out to do historical reasons. If Japan wouldn't of surrendered when they did many more cities would of been bombed as well. This tactic was used instead of the other plan to invade Japan because less American soldiers would of died then trying to invade Japan. It was a terrible thing that happen to them people but we learned great lessons of the destructive power of such weapons. Now if the bomb didn't get dropped back then we most likely wouldn't of realized how devastating such weapons were and the cold war might of went alot different.

As strongly as you feel about what you view as patrism they also felt about there viewpoints ,war is hell and if you find yourself in hell you can be sure its for a reason,no sane person wants to be there however if your pushed you will shove,newtons law for every action there is a equil and oposit reaction.

sno you are my favorite person right now and Pol and US, you owe everything to the military and give them nothing, not even respect, you dont deserve to live like you do

How is saying that any better than what Pol Pot and Undeadskeptic said?

payback.... show some shadows of the innocent civillians in pearl harbor. nuff said.

Not going to happen. Then they could not point and scream "evil america!"

Taken from Wiki.



These are the reasons that these two cities were targeted.

and



Anyone who wishes harm to their country, is in my eyes a traitor, and deserves to be dragged through the streets and hung by their neck for all to see.

This kind of statement worries me just as much (if not more so) as Devildogpratt's. What about victims of harsh dictatorships and corrupt totalitarian governments? Would you call the millions killed by Nazi Germany traitors? Did they also deserve what they got?

I have only read the first post, but that's a load of crap. If it's a chemical reaction that created any dark spots, then it aren't shadows and the legend is still bs.

The shadows can talk but can you listen?

Dictatorships, corrupt totalitarian governments and Nazi Germany all wished harm to their country as well. The government doesn't make the country, it’s the people that do. If a country's government is corrupt it is the citizen’s responsibility to stand up to them.

But now I digress, we should be staying on topic here about the shadows of Hiroshima.

What if your country does something totally unethical? I bet lots of Germans hoped the Nazis would lose. Obviously, you have the option of moving but what if you want to change your country instead of leaving it? Don't get me wrong-- I was disgusted by the posts criticizing our troops too. But I've been wondering about the ethics of loving your country a lot lately.

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Before they bombed Hiroshima they dropped pamphlets warning the citizens to stay indoors. Not that it would have done any good. The bombers were delayed several hours due to weather conditions so the citizens assumed the bombing raid had been avoided and went back out on the streets.


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Ah, I see that you answered my question while I was in the process of typing it.

what happened at Hiroshima was tragic and lets hope nothing like that happen again, yes the shadows are true

these shadows on the bridge are of people

As horrible as this is, it's still pretty cool.