Full Version: Far off places
Let's say that a man lives deep deep in Africa and worships a different God then the Christain God. He's the kindest person in the world, respects people, is kind, loving, and consideret. And he never once here's about Jesus or God. Would he go to Hell?
of course not. What kind of god (if he even existed) would punish someone for not having heard of him? Although I will be interested to see the god believers spin this one 
according to Christian dogma, he would go straight to hell. Knowledge and acceptance of Jesus and the Christ and Savior is what saves you, not works! Stupid, but that is their dogma! 
Romans 1:20
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
According to this verse, he, as we all, should already know of God.
Personally, if I hadn't heard of Christianity through church and other people, I wouldn't have known a thing about it.
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"
According to this verse, he, as we all, should already know of God.
Personally, if I hadn't heard of Christianity through church and other people, I wouldn't have known a thing about it.
QUOTE(bacca @ Aug 3 2005, 07:13 AM)
of course not. What kind of god (if he even existed) would punish someone for not having heard of him? Although I will be interested to see the god believers spin this one
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I know, this should be fun.
That's one thing that has always gotten me about Christianity.. if someone lives a righteous life and yet don't believe in the Christian God then they go to hell. Whether it be not believing or not knowing of him, I still don't like the dogmatic views. This is one big reason why I think Christianity is a form of mass control. It's either follow their belief or you're in the wrong. There's also so many branches of Christianity, so if one of them did happen to be the true one, then would people who believed in the wrong ones go to hell?
This is why Christianity is screwed up.
This is what i believe coming from my Unitartian Christian belief! Sorry if its a big response but you all seem interested in a valid answer! Jesus in the Bible guaranteed Paradise to non-Trinitarians and even non-Christians who are Monotheists:
Jesus said: loving GOD Almighty so much and being nice to your neighbors will cause you to have eternal life:
Luke 10
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
He answered: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "
"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."
Notice that Jesus didn't talk about any trinity, nor did he say to the man that he must accept Jesus as a mediator between him and GOD Almighty to win Eternal Life. Jesus was pretty clear and straight forward here: LOVE GOD ALMIGHTY AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOURSELF. That is simply all there is to it to win eternal life in Jesus' standards.
It certainly wasn't necessary for the man who asked the question to believe in trinity in order for him to be saved. Jesus assured him Paradise if he believed otherwise.
Jesus also confirmed that the Law of Moses is the way to "Eternal Life". Here is another incident where Jesus was asked the same exact question by another person:
Luke 18
A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.' "
"All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth.
Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!
Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."
Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life."
Notice the exclusivity that Jesus gave to GOD Almighty when he said "GOD alone.", and also when he said "No one (including Jesus) is good".
2- Matthew 5:9-11 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
3- Matthew 5:8-10 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."
4- Matthew 5:5-7 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled."
5- Matthew 5:6-8 "Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy."
6- Matthew 5:7-9 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God."
7- Matthew 5:3-5 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted."
8- Matthew 5:4-6 "Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."
When Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." If we take the meanings of this verse in the same context in Luke 10:25-28 and the other verses that teach about love, harmony and forgiveness, then we would clearly see that the way that Jesus talked about is the goodness in you.
The interpretation of John 3:16 can mean that if one doesn't believe in Jesus as the "son of God", and that he died on the cross for our sins, then the person will not have an Eternal Life in Paradise. The problem with this, however, is that
"Son of God" in Hebrew literally means "Servant of God"
Jesus said: loving GOD Almighty so much and being nice to your neighbors will cause you to have eternal life:
Luke 10
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
He answered: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "
"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."
Notice that Jesus didn't talk about any trinity, nor did he say to the man that he must accept Jesus as a mediator between him and GOD Almighty to win Eternal Life. Jesus was pretty clear and straight forward here: LOVE GOD ALMIGHTY AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOURSELF. That is simply all there is to it to win eternal life in Jesus' standards.
It certainly wasn't necessary for the man who asked the question to believe in trinity in order for him to be saved. Jesus assured him Paradise if he believed otherwise.
Jesus also confirmed that the Law of Moses is the way to "Eternal Life". Here is another incident where Jesus was asked the same exact question by another person:
Luke 18
A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.' "
"All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth.
Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!
Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."
Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life."
Notice the exclusivity that Jesus gave to GOD Almighty when he said "GOD alone.", and also when he said "No one (including Jesus) is good".
2- Matthew 5:9-11 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
3- Matthew 5:8-10 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."
4- Matthew 5:5-7 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled."
5- Matthew 5:6-8 "Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy."
6- Matthew 5:7-9 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God."
7- Matthew 5:3-5 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted."
8- Matthew 5:4-6 "Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."
When Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." If we take the meanings of this verse in the same context in Luke 10:25-28 and the other verses that teach about love, harmony and forgiveness, then we would clearly see that the way that Jesus talked about is the goodness in you.
The interpretation of John 3:16 can mean that if one doesn't believe in Jesus as the "son of God", and that he died on the cross for our sins, then the person will not have an Eternal Life in Paradise. The problem with this, however, is that
"Son of God" in Hebrew literally means "Servant of God"
Ramster? Do you not understand that some of us don't believe in the bible? what it says in it isn't going to show anything? I have a very good idea of what it says I do not need quotes coming at me doing nothing more then taking up space. I believe it to be a book of fiction so it could say anything it won't make a difference....Do you have anything other then that book?
QUOTE(bacca @ Aug 4 2005, 02:21 AM)
Ramster? Do you not understand that some of us don't believe in the bible? what it says in it isn't going to show anything? I have a very good idea of what it says I do not need quotes coming at me doing nothing more then taking up space. I believe it to be a book of fiction so it could say anything it won't make a difference....Do you have anything other then that book?
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It doesnt matter what i do or dont have- my response answered his question precisely! It doesnt matter what source i used. No its not "taking up space" some people will find what i said interesting. You dont 'believe' in the bible? Some here have said they believe in parts of the bible so talk for yourself- all of these quotes give a direct response to the question raised here. So theres your theists response to it. Take it.
the question was would he go to heaven if he never heard of god and had no idea who or what that was supposed to be.
I'm sorry did you answer that?
I'm sorry did you answer that?
QUOTE(bacca @ Aug 4 2005, 02:47 AM)
the question was would he go to heaven if he never heard of god and had no idea who or what that was supposed to be.
I'm sorry did you answer that?
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I'm sorry did you answer that?
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Yes i did answer that quite clearly as well. I stated quotes in the bible which say any man thats KIND, GENEROUS, MERCIFUL, RIGHTEOUS will find the light. Jesus said to be this way and love your neighbors as yourself and YOU WILL LIVE.
Its crystal clear.
And the commandment about no god above me? if he doesn't know god he sure wouldn't have followed that one
QUOTE(ramster83 @ Aug 3 2005, 09:16 AM)
This is what i believe coming from my Unitartian Christian belief! Sorry if its a big response but you all seem interested in a valid answer! Jesus in the Bible guaranteed Paradise to non-Trinitarians and even non-Christians who are Monotheists:
Jesus said: loving GOD Almighty so much and being nice to your neighbors will cause you to have eternal life:
Luke 10
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
He answered: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "
"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."
Notice that Jesus didn't talk about any trinity, nor did he say to the man that he must accept Jesus as a mediator between him and GOD Almighty to win Eternal Life. Jesus was pretty clear and straight forward here: LOVE GOD ALMIGHTY AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOURSELF. That is simply all there is to it to win eternal life in Jesus' standards.
It certainly wasn't necessary for the man who asked the question to believe in trinity in order for him to be saved. Jesus assured him Paradise if he believed otherwise.
Jesus also confirmed that the Law of Moses is the way to "Eternal Life". Here is another incident where Jesus was asked the same exact question by another person:
Luke 18
A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.' "
"All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth.
Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!
Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."
Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life."
Notice the exclusivity that Jesus gave to GOD Almighty when he said "GOD alone.", and also when he said "No one (including Jesus) is good".
2- Matthew 5:9-11 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
3- Matthew 5:8-10 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."
4- Matthew 5:5-7 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled."
5- Matthew 5:6-8 "Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy."
6- Matthew 5:7-9 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God."
7- Matthew 5:3-5 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted."
8- Matthew 5:4-6 "Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."
When Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." If we take the meanings of this verse in the same context in Luke 10:25-28 and the other verses that teach about love, harmony and forgiveness, then we would clearly see that the way that Jesus talked about is the goodness in you.
The interpretation of John 3:16 can mean that if one doesn't believe in Jesus as the "son of God", and that he died on the cross for our sins, then the person will not have an Eternal Life in Paradise. The problem with this, however, is that
"Son of God" in Hebrew literally means "Servant of God"
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Jesus said: loving GOD Almighty so much and being nice to your neighbors will cause you to have eternal life:
Luke 10
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?"
He answered: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind' ; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' "
"You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live."
Notice that Jesus didn't talk about any trinity, nor did he say to the man that he must accept Jesus as a mediator between him and GOD Almighty to win Eternal Life. Jesus was pretty clear and straight forward here: LOVE GOD ALMIGHTY AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORS AS YOURSELF. That is simply all there is to it to win eternal life in Jesus' standards.
It certainly wasn't necessary for the man who asked the question to believe in trinity in order for him to be saved. Jesus assured him Paradise if he believed otherwise.
Jesus also confirmed that the Law of Moses is the way to "Eternal Life". Here is another incident where Jesus was asked the same exact question by another person:
Luke 18
A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.
You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.' "
"All these I have kept since I was a boy," he said.
When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth.
Jesus looked at him and said, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!
Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Those who heard this asked, "Who then can be saved?"
Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God."
Peter said to him, "We have left all we had to follow you!"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus said to them, "no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life."
Notice the exclusivity that Jesus gave to GOD Almighty when he said "GOD alone.", and also when he said "No one (including Jesus) is good".
2- Matthew 5:9-11 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
3- Matthew 5:8-10 "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God."
4- Matthew 5:5-7 "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled."
5- Matthew 5:6-8 "Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy."
6- Matthew 5:7-9 "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God."
7- Matthew 5:3-5 "Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted."
8- Matthew 5:4-6 "Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth."
When Jesus said: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." If we take the meanings of this verse in the same context in Luke 10:25-28 and the other verses that teach about love, harmony and forgiveness, then we would clearly see that the way that Jesus talked about is the goodness in you.
The interpretation of John 3:16 can mean that if one doesn't believe in Jesus as the "son of God", and that he died on the cross for our sins, then the person will not have an Eternal Life in Paradise. The problem with this, however, is that
"Son of God" in Hebrew literally means "Servant of God"
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Your interpretation of the bible is inaccurate , you are excepting the meaning as told to you by someone else, Jesus Said I am the way and the life Follow my example the things you see me do you can do to and more, He also said I and the father are one and so are you and he also said Have I not told you Ye are all gods!!!! I'm sorry but Chritianity has a very limited awareness of the divine and the universe because it only tells half the story, God told Moses IAM That I AM which means God is all of it the Alpha and the Omega the good of it the bad of it Etc. etc. Christianitys understanding is from a relative dualistic standpoint Its the part of life that is illusion its you who beleives its real Namaste Sheri
I Believe that all have a faith in a higher power and appreciate life will find a good place when they die, im not strictly a "Christian" im a Unitarian. With the Bible its all about translation and as you understand translating it to English is difficult, things can mean things, i mean in the Bible Jesus many times refers to God as one and only. Jesus said that hes a good example for mankind. I personally think the trinity is not important and that Jesus was not God- but simply Gods son or 'servant'. To me whatever states otherwise is a misunderstanding or incorrect translation.
QUOTE(GhostDJR @ Aug 3 2005, 07:12 AM)
Let's say that a man lives deep deep in Africa and worships a different God then the Christain God. He's the kindest person in the world, respects people, is kind, loving, and consideret. And he never once here's about Jesus or God. Would he go to Hell?
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Before I say anything, EVERYTHING mentioned below are STRICTLY my beliefs...and perhaps the beliefs of others.
I believe that Hell is not eternal. I believe that Hell is only a place where you realize that there truly is a God. While in hell, you will suffer (as said in many scriptures). While you suffer, you will call out to Jesus, our 'Lord' and 'Savior'. And when you finally call out to him, you now believe in him. And now you believe in him, you believe in God. And then Jesus, who is full of sins because he died for ours on the cross, can enter hell and save us...or bring us to heaven.
So, theres my take in it all.
If you know more about the scriptures that don't say this, or say against this, fill me in...
QUOTE(ramster83 @ Aug 3 2005, 10:08 AM)
I Believe that all have a faith in a higher power and appreciate life will find a good place when they die, im not strictly a "Christian" im a Unitarian. With the Bible its all about translation and as you understand translating it to English is difficult, things can mean things, i mean in the Bible Jesus many times refers to God as one and only. Jesus said that hes a good example for mankind. I personally think the trinity is not important and that Jesus was not God- but simply Gods son or 'servant'. To me whatever states otherwise is a misunderstanding or incorrect translation.
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Ram Do you belive god is seperate from you or one with you???From reading your posts i would of never been able to get that you had your own ideas on things , it appears as if the scripture is your beleifs and answers some of us are interested in rapping about our thoughts on what things mean, nothing personal Yes the bible is not a book for children it takes a maturiity and wisdom that most people don't have yet, it requires you to look very deeply into things .Also its very contradictory as you have noticed the quickest way to GodSelf or divinity is probably not the bible, I'd be interested in your thoughts okay???? Namaste Sehrit
and i beleive the idea of hell was created by theologans in rome, who stole the original ideas from previous religions and cultures to be more able to convert others to christianity.
hence, since there is no hell, nobody will be going there.
hence, since there is no hell, nobody will be going there.
QUOTE(_hAiLO_ @ Aug 3 2005, 10:16 AM)
QUOTE(GhostDJR @ Aug 3 2005, 07:12 AM)
Let's say that a man lives deep deep in Africa and worships a different God then the Christain God. He's the kindest person in the world, respects people, is kind, loving, and consideret. And he never once here's about Jesus or God. Would he go to Hell?
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Before I say anything, EVERYTHING mentioned below are STRICTLY my beliefs...and perhaps the beliefs of others.
I believe that Hell is not eternal. I believe that Hell is only a place where you realize that there truly is a God. While in hell, you will suffer (as said in many scriptures). While you suffer, you will call out to Jesus, our 'Lord' and 'Savior'. And when you finally call out to him, you now believe in him. And now you believe in him, you believe in God. And then Jesus, who is full of sins because he died for ours on the cross, can enter hell and save us...or bring us to heaven.
So, theres my take in it all.
If you know more about the scriptures that don't say this, or say against this, fill me in...
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Hailo What if "Hell" was simply not knowing your Godself or divine nature??? Just that what would that imply to you???There is no hell other then the Hell you create or imagine for yourself???I would ask why do you choose to beleive in this Hell??? What are you afraid of??Whatever it is work on conquering that then you will not need to beleive in Hell Namaste Sheri
Right now, I have three paths to believe in.
1) What they tell me
2) What they tell me, and I stitching them toghether
3) What I choose to believe in
So far, that Hell I just mention was path #2, and not a very wise path. I could take anyones sayings and stitch them together, and the new ideal would be entirely out of its originality and would be a completely new ideal.
I may have said I believed in that hell...but it seems that I am unsure what type of hell to believe in...or to believe in one period.
O well
I guess i'll leave that to the future 
1) What they tell me
2) What they tell me, and I stitching them toghether
3) What I choose to believe in
So far, that Hell I just mention was path #2, and not a very wise path. I could take anyones sayings and stitch them together, and the new ideal would be entirely out of its originality and would be a completely new ideal.
I may have said I believed in that hell...but it seems that I am unsure what type of hell to believe in...or to believe in one period.
O well
I guess i'll leave that to the future
QUOTE(_hAiLO_ @ Aug 3 2005, 10:31 AM)
Right now, I have three paths to believe in.
1) What they tell me
2) What they tell me, and I stitching them toghether
3) What I choose to believe in
So far, that Hell I just mention was path #2, and not a very wise path. I could take anyones sayings and stitch them together, and the new ideal would be entirely out of its originality and would be a completely new ideal.
I may have said I believed in that hell...but it seems that I am unsure what type of hell to believe in...or to believe in one period.
O well I guess i'll leave that to the future
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1) What they tell me
2) What they tell me, and I stitching them toghether
3) What I choose to believe in
So far, that Hell I just mention was path #2, and not a very wise path. I could take anyones sayings and stitch them together, and the new ideal would be entirely out of its originality and would be a completely new ideal.
I may have said I believed in that hell...but it seems that I am unsure what type of hell to believe in...or to believe in one period.
O well
I guess i'll leave that to the future [right][snapback]770529[/snapback][/right]
Hailo I'd suggest throwing out 1 & 2 make your ideas about god based on your experiences, not on someone elses, the truth lives in you Namaste sheri
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Aug 3 2005, 09:37 AM)
Hailo I'd suggest throwing out 1 & 2 make your ideas about god based on your experiences, not on someone elses, the truth lives in you Namaste sheri
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Yeah, i've been relying on a site that I think would help me get some relationship ties...
http://godtalkstoyou.com/
Ghost (and other people), check it out.
QUOTE(_hAiLO_ @ Aug 3 2005, 10:44 AM)
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Aug 3 2005, 09:37 AM)
Hailo I'd suggest throwing out 1 & 2 make your ideas about god based on your experiences, not on someone elses, the truth lives in you Namaste sheri
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Yeah, i've been relying on a site that I think would help me get some relationship ties...
http://godtalkstoyou.com/
Ghost (and other people), check it out.
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I will do that thanks for the info, I'm glad to see you branching out Kiddo, Your friend sheri
The reason christianity is so contradicting and confusing is because everybody you ask has their own spin on it.
Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
-Annie Dillard
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
-Annie Dillard
I guess all I can say is I believe there is NO hell and therefore I won't be visiting. Hell is a place where the religious like to bannish people for not believing as they do. The place only exists in the indoctrinated minds of those who wish to scare people into believing it.
agreed
As I have said on this Forum in the past....Heaven or Hell is what you make it to be.
No he wont go to hell.
How can he go someplace (Heaven/Hell) that he/she does not believe in?
No knowledge=No belief
No knowledge=No belief
I'm not going to argue with you over the existence of Heaven and Hell Zanodore, you believe what you what, I'll believe what I do.
I answered the question, he wouldn't go to hell.
I answered the question, he wouldn't go to hell.
QUOTE(Ashley-Star*Child @ Aug 3 2005, 07:09 PM)
I'm not going to argue with you over the existence of Heaven and Hell Zanodore, you belief what you what, just stay out of my face.
I answered the question, he wouldn't go to hell.
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I answered the question, he wouldn't go to hell.
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I did not intend to offend.
This is an open forum so....OH WELL!
Again I ask
How can he go someplace (Heaven/Hell) that he/she does not believe in?
No knowledge=No belief
People didn't know about gravity at one point, but it existed.
I'm not offended, just paking a point.
I'm not offended, just paking a point.
but ashley, since hell was an idea stolen from other previous religions, would it not be more accurate to claim you would go to the real, originally identified, place (if you believe it exists)?
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Aug 3 2005, 12:07 PM)
I will do that thanks for the info, I'm glad to see you branching out Kiddo, Your friend sheri
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Thanks, couldn't have done it without you Sherri
QUOTE(zandore @ Aug 3 2005, 02:39 PM)
As I have said on this Forum in the past....Heaven or Hell is what you make it to be.
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You know what? Its starting to seem that way. I won't comment on Heaven because its believed to be the place of God, and thats it. But Hell, its being percieved as soOoOo many things, it can be so confusing.
QUOTE(GhostDJR @ Aug 4 2005, 01:12 AM)
Let's say that a man lives deep deep in Africa and worships a different God then the Christain God. He's the kindest person in the world, respects people, is kind, loving, and consideret. And he never once here's about Jesus or God. Would he go to Hell?
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As a Christian, the most honest answer I can give here is: I don't know.
I believe in heaven, hell etc (not in the traditional Catholic, Dante's kind of way mind you). Many do not, and therefore what i am about to post will be irrelevant to them....
From a human perspective, we find it inconceivable that someone is to be condemned for simply being born in the wrong place at the wrong time. From this perspective, we can argue on a human level that it would not be merciful of God to condemn one for never having the chance to hear God's message. Furthermore, there are passages which mention people being judged according to their deeds, and what they had done.
On the other hand, the bible also states that Jesus is the only way to heaven. From this perspective then, it can be argued that the man/woman/child in reference has no chance - oh well!
In the end, we do not know what will happen. the Bible does not specifically mention this. All we have is conjecture and supposition.
What the Bible does do is tell us what will happen to those who have heard and rejected the message of God. that is clear. And I will stop right there, otherwise I'm going to break into a sermon - and no one wants that
All the best,
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Aug 4 2005, 03:02 AM)
Jesus Said I am the way and the life Follow my example the things you see me do you can do to and more
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Hi Sheri. I've seen you quote this a few times - I just thought you might like to know the context of the passage it is in.
In reference to Jesus speaking of going to heaven, Thomas asks Jesus: "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." (John 14:5-7)
You missed two important lines in your quote: I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.
You seem to be interpreting what this passage is saying to fit your own ideal of who and what God is. The passage is clear: there is no reference to following Jesus' example being good enough. Jesus (as in the person himself) is the only way to heaven. No one comes to the father, except through me.
Until next time,
The Jews, of course, didn't have a concept of Hell. They had Sheol, where they thought everyone, good or bad, wise or stupid, ruler or slave went after death. Hell is purely a Christian concoction, as is Purgatory or Limbo. What is amusing to me are the concepts of Hell portrayed in the middle ages, (and for that matter, sometimes today) of what must be spirits of some kind (souls, if you like), which by definition have no physical body, yet receiving physical punishment. Does it really hurt a soul or spirit to have a pitchfork stuck in it? Does a spirit or soul feel the burning heat of flame? A bad joke, I think, but fairly effective, as control by mindless fear often is.
QUOTE(zandore @ Aug 3 2005, 07:12 PM)
QUOTE(Ashley-Star*Child @ Aug 3 2005, 07:09 PM)
I'm not going to argue with you over the existence of Heaven and Hell Zanodore, you belief what you what, just stay out of my face.
I answered the question, he wouldn't go to hell.
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I answered the question, he wouldn't go to hell.
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I did not intend to offend.
This is an open forum so....OH WELL!
Again I ask
How can he go someplace (Heaven/Hell) that he/she does not believe in?
No knowledge=No belief
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QUOTE(Ashley-Star*Child Posted Yesterday @ 09:22 PM )
I'm not offended, just paking a point.
It sure looked like you were offended.Different religion, Not knowing of Heaven or Hell how can this person go to either Christian place?
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Aug 3 2005, 08:21 PM)
QUOTE(Sheri berri @ Aug 4 2005, 03:02 AM)
Jesus Said I am the way and the life Follow my example the things you see me do you can do to and more
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Hi Sheri. I've seen you quote this a few times - I just thought you might like to know the context of the passage it is in.
In reference to Jesus speaking of going to heaven, Thomas asks Jesus: "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." (John 14:5-7)
You missed two important lines in your quote: I am the way, THE TRUTH, and the life. NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME.
You seem to be interpreting what this passage is saying to fit your own ideal of who and what God is. The passage is clear: there is no reference to following Jesus' example being good enough. Jesus (as in the person himself) is the only way to heaven. No one comes to the father, except through me.
Until next time,
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PA I would say your interpretatoin is different that mine, Wrong is a "relative" word applying only in the realm of dualism, Religon is built on the idea of separatism, and fear, God is only love love is all there is, is my core beleif, you want to point out to me that the idea of sepratism is the essence of God that is your level of understanding mine is We are all one of course My perspective will be different and filtered through a oneness awareness, Right or wrong has no meaning for me its what works for the betterment of mankind or what doesn't. If I was a Christian it would be imperative that I believed this exactly "right" but I'm not Christian, thankyou for sharing thats basically what I am doing . Namaste Sheri
If all the demons and stuff are in hell, aren't they doing a good thing by bringing in all the bad people to hell? Does heaven control hell to make that not happen?
QUOTE(Discordia @ Aug 3 2005, 08:57 AM)
That's one thing that has always gotten me about Christianity.. if someone lives a righteous life and yet don't believe in the Christian God then they go to hell. Whether it be not believing or not knowing of him, I still don't like the dogmatic views. This is one big reason why I think Christianity is a form of mass control. It's either follow their belief or you're in the wrong. There's also so many branches of Christianity, so if one of them did happen to be the true one, then would people who believed in the wrong ones go to hell?
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Here's a story for you:
A new restaurant opened up in town, and it's awesome! The food tastes perfect, the service is extremely fast, etc. But, It'll cost you $1000(For the sake of this aruguement) oo get in. You can go around, be nice to others, do jobs and stuff, but that'll only get you so far, and you're still short of the money. Now, the restaurant's manager is standing right outside, and he says "I'll give you the $1000 you need for this restaurant, but you must be respectful in there, finish all of your food, and do a couple chores when you're done eating." Sounds easy, right?
In this story, The restaurant is heaven, and the $1000 is the price you need to get in(for this arguement's sake!
). Like in the restaurant thing, you can live a good life and be nice to other and such, but that still only gets you so far. The restaurant manager is Jesus, and he's willing to give up some of His own money for you so you can get in, as long as you set a good example in there. If this doesn't make sense, I'm sorry, I'll try to explain it more if someone asks
Larry, yes eveyone went to Sheol or hell when they died before Jesus (unless they were a prophet, in which case they ended up in the 3rd Heaven, the human Heaven, Paradise). This is why Jesus said 'I am the doorway to Heaven'. For the first time since the fall of man, humans had the chance to reach Heaven. All those in Sheol and Hell before Jesus were released.
Sheol is a form of limbo, there are 10 levels of hell, as there are 10 levels of Heaven. Even angels have their own hells - or literally, 'prisonhouses'. The 2nd and 5th level of Heaven, and the planet Pluto. Pluto wasn't associated with the underworld for nothing.
Sheol is a form of limbo, there are 10 levels of hell, as there are 10 levels of Heaven. Even angels have their own hells - or literally, 'prisonhouses'. The 2nd and 5th level of Heaven, and the planet Pluto. Pluto wasn't associated with the underworld for nothing.
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