Survival 101

We hear so much talk about political correctness and women/children rights. Speaking out is a good recipe for castration. Society is built on survival in a harsh environment. If we truly understand our past we would understand the reason why things are the way they are. How would you change things
History speaks of submission and responsibilities that seem totally out of line from our perspective in the 21 century.
In order to reevaluate the positions and responsibility in an organized civilization we need to look from a primal perspective. So here is a scenario. One hundred humans have escaped global annihilation and fled toward the stars. Arriving eventually on a planet much like earth the survivors include 40 men and 40 women and 20 children between the ages of 2 and 13. All have an equal responsibility for survival of the group. But duties need to be decided among the group. You, as the oldest and wisest man/woman of the group must decide who is best suited for which responsibility and you must justify your decisions. Assuming there are no provisions left onboard the ship.

Priority 1. Shelter/warmth, who do you assign? Why?
Priority 2. Food, hunting and gathering, who do you assign? Why?
Priority 3. Order and structure, eventually government and law. who do you assign?
Priority 4. Protection and security, from wild beasts and hostile inhabitants. Why?
Priority 5. Education and nurturer of the children. Who do you assign? Why?

I believe that all responsibility are important equally to the survival of the race. Would you change much from recorded history or consider one position greater than another.

OK, all you machos and feminists, have at it!

Irish will now slink of to a nearby cave for his own safety.

40 men/40 women/20 children?


For starters sex wouldn't have anything to do with it. So here goes:

1. I would say about five or so people those able to construct. Now hopefully there would have been people from different back grounds and such to be sent to start over so I would find people who know something about architecture and building.

2. What are they hunting with? I know some children who are really good shots. So if there were guns then it would be those with the best aim.

3. Those who would 'run' or 'govern' would be chosen by everyone. So hopefully that person would be wise enough to do what is best for everyone.

4. shifts for this one. There would be no set people unless they volunteer for it to stand watch and if something did show up then the hunters would be used for protection. Hopefully there would be those who want this job.

5. and this would go to all of the adults. Since there are only 20 children all the adults would have the task of miking sure the children were taught right and wrong. If there was a desire to teach things of different things, reading , writing, math, history of this planet things of that sort it would depend on who was best qualified...


I'm not sure if you were intending men to get some jobs and women to get others. Even if you wanted to go there no one job is more important and no one is lesser then anyone else. In a situation like this all would be equal.

If humans were abandoned on a planet with NO contrapcetion then the past would inevitably be reawakened. While a woman is pregnant she is vulnerable. She is not as adept at looking after herself as she would otherwise be. Therefore it makes sense that her partner or group would care for her. Without contraception she would most likely be pregnant more often unless she deliberately abstained from it except to have children. When a baby is born the mother naturally bonds with it closer than the father, the father usually bonding as the child grows older and more independent. Therefore a large part of the mothers time would be spent caring for her child and protecting it.

So in terms of shelter/warmth a pregnant mother would be ideal because it would not require her to travel far. She could also cook, heal wounds etc.

Now men are naturally stronger than women but I think women would perform equally well as hunters/gatherers etc.

Government would be run by the oldest members of society as of old. These people have the longest life experience and so it makes sense that they be those that make decisions. Also they are not as physically strong but their minds are still just as strong so it makes sense that they use them instead of struggling to maintain the same physical level as younger people.

Protection and security again would be equal between men and women. They are both capable of it.

Education would be for the oldests people, again, and those who cannot hunt/gather due to pregnancy, illness etc.

I know many pregnant women who are capable of many things during pregnancy in times of old that was no reason to stop doing things. Fields still had to be tended to the house still needed to be cleaned wood cut and stocked all those things which men seem to think are easy lesser tasks were always done regardless of pregnancy

yes bacca... put those women to work! for some reason this thread reminds me of the old jokes about "woman's work", and "woman's sounds". the brave man goes off hunting for a few hours in the morning, returning with food, so that the woman can toil for the next 12 cooking, child rearing, and all those "lessor chores" you speak of. That leaves more time to the men for drinking and debauchery!

sorry i'm not sure what are you trying to say. do you mean that children or women have too much wrights?

yes society is built on harsh conditions, but thats why people are constantly improving those conditions, also the past is in the past and is not neceserily correct, you dont go witch hunting novadays do you?
also i dont understand why do we have to look from a primal perspective, we dont live in stone age, nor are we supposed to, so the responsabilitys and opositions also should be considered for the present or even the future rather than the past.
in my opinion if we'll start to think in primal ways the civilization will simply degrade.

The point is if we were to start over would we make the same mistakes as history. Or could we avoid the potential pitfalls of sexism. What I really want to find out is why any of the duties required would be considered menial when we would fail as a civilization without participation.

Whoa thar Red Rider, we are talking stranded on another planet, a planet that is wild and uninhabited….Shelter will have to be built or found (caves), furniture, bedding, utensils and tools will have to be made…you seem to believe that a pregnant woman is very delicate, so that would not be a job for them! However, in reality Evolution/God/The Creator/Whatever has made womankind extremely tough and resilient! Only the final few weeks of the third trimester is a danger period for the baby; the woman is only in danger, normally, during the actual child birth (sometimes). As Bacca pointed out Shelter would not depend on sex or age, all would have to contribute (with the possible exception of the extremely young).

In this you seem to agree with Bacca and myself. You did leave out the kids…I know kids (male and female) that can hunt, fish and trap better than a lot of adults.

Spoken as a typical Christian (always supporting the rule of many by the few), we finally got away from that concept about 229 years ago. No matter how wise the old folks (of which I is one) are, they should not be the only ones making the rules. I believe (as should most people) in government by the permission of the people with all members of a society working together to set the rules. I don’t abide by that “poor physically helpless old codgers” BS, my paternal Great Grandpa lived to be 110 and actively farmed until 108! It depends on the individual, not the age. I have to agree with Bacca on this.

Here we all three seem to agree.

Sorry, age and pregnancy is not a factor in education…..Why ignore the tremendous knowledge of John the former MD and now a hunter and have Joe the village idiot teach the kids, because he is too old to hunt? The teaching should be done by all qualified members of the adults and older teens, in the subjects that they have good knowledge of.

No Irish, I think the majority of us realize that in nearly all ways, the sexes are equal!

However, mankind would be doomed anyway, the gene pool would be way too shallow!

We need do nothing more than change the belief system throw out the bible its a history of what hasn't worked and why, and how we got to where we are. when we have a mass conciousness that will agree that Women and men are equals everything falls into place, OUR beleifs have gotten us where we are they can get us out of this self created mess to, I have a marrige based on equals we work together as a team no one is assigned roles sometimes my husband is Mommy cooks cleans "does so called "Womens work" We need to grow up as a society, its downright silliness to actually hold the beleif that whose better who should be doing what, Any one can begin today just treat the opposite sex as your equal we don't need a road map for that. Namaste Sheri

that would entirely depend on the people involved now wouldn't it? If you sent up forty submissive women and forty chauvinistic men then yes but if you sent people who understand that all living things are equals and just as important as everyone else then no....But the men and the women would have to understand and believe that so that no one sex fights for power over the other. Or in there need for it creates something that gives absolute power to one race...or at least tries to...but thats the specific people not the whole

Well put Bacca!!!! As is being said it depends on how you beleive, change the beleifs then the whole picture changes Namaste Sheri

Problem is that you can't change how people think...and would you really want to? I'm going to be the first to complain about people who i find annoying or insane in there thoughts, actions, and or beliefs but they have the right to them in the same way that I have the right to feel that they are insane....Perhaps its a wrong way of thinking but I feel that everyone has a right to their opinion, they just don't have the right to push it onto others....

That is what I would hope would get changed in a new begining, that different ways would truly be accepted not just those of one or two but of everyone there...

But man and woman are different, let me explain with a picture

men and women are different... but not that much. it all depends on if they are raised to be different and if you are looking for differences. look for similarities and you will be amazed.

classic picture though. i think you have a wee bit o' the loge in you, irish.

Funny Irish,

Bacca I agree on what a person thinks is what they think I can't understand why religion wants everyone to think exactly the same I don't think its possible to think exactly the same , Collectively we do share a beleif system it builds the world in which we live in the majority is based and built on religious ideas even though we don't beleive in them they affect us as i see it, I wonder if we agreed to share the belief that men and women are equal ( I'm not defining equal as the same ) I'm defining it as we have the same respect same rights same value same quality of life wouldn't that serve us better than how it is currently?? What do yo uthink or have I gone crazy???

Thats cute


But what is the point? Just because they are different doesn't mean they have to be treated differently does it? It doesn't mean that they aren't capable of doing many of the same things does it? If you think it does then that's your hang up no one elses.....Men and women are different for a reason. Women have children, they would have to nurse and things like that. I'm sorry but that in no way makes them inferior....


"Behind every great man stands a better woman"

Women are a necessary part of everything they are smart, strong, and capable of taking care of themselves. The problem seems to be as that a lot of men are intimidated by strong women and therefore do everything they can to keep women as being lesser but i say that it's man's problem

Quick Irish, head back to your cave before it gets bad -

sorry in advance for this bacca, but i am in a strange mood right now.



is the corollary to your quote: "behind every stupid man is an even stupider woman"?

or... nah i better not say it... i am joking around but no need to give anybody ideas....

Bacca Good point, We live in a world that if you are different it causes division instead of celebration, I think women are awesome and I am honored to be one but I also think men are pretty kool too they have things that I admire and respect, It does seem to me to Bacca that only a person who is not comfortable in there own identity would have trouble celebrating those that are different, Yet for our differences we are also similar that dichtomy at play, so Hyper has a point also, we balance each other, bottom line is we are just different expressions of the same thing.

Bacca and Hyper this is how I know the quote

BEHIND EVERY GOOD MAN IS THE WOMAN WHO MADE HIM!!!!!

OK, my take on it. There is no question that by and large, men have significantly more outright physical strength than women. In particular, men have more upper body strength. In primitive conditions, it would be the men who did the heavy lifting and the women who did the lighter work. Successful hunting with a spear requires great body strength, and the stronger the hunter, generally the more successful. Other talents are also necessary, but if you can't cast a spear far enough to hit the animal, and with enough force to wound it unto death, you lose. Digging with a stick and hauling small buckets of water requires far less strength . . . endurance really helps, but outright physical strength isn't required. By the same token women are the ones who produce milk to feed a baby . . . seems a natural fit for them to be at least the initial caregivers of babies, that is what works. And it is also true that might has made "right". The strongest person usually was revered for his physical strength, and with the men being stronger, they mostly made the rules.

So, for a bunch of goat herder/hunter gatherers, the ancient traditional assignment of work is what functioned. Under the same primitive conditions, I expect it would quickly revert to the same.

I might add that I far prefer the modern world, with endless numbers of ways to eliminate the need for brute force, and am all in favor of men and women being treated equally, so far as their sexual differences allow. Men and women will never be "the same", praise to the fates that be.

Of course, in many ways, the question as posed is somewhat moot, as even in reduced circumstances we would still have what ancient humans didn't posses: hugely more knowledge. It takes about 100 lbs of pull, for instance, to operate a decent killing bow. A compound bow can be made with the same power, with only about 40 lbs of pull, a significant difference. Women could be quite effective hunters with a compound bow. By the same token, we know much about the principles of physics and mechanics, and that would still be with us, once again, reducing the need for brute force. A less strong individual might very well be chosen as leader if that individual had a good deal of knowledge of these things. The history of invention is interesting, and it is also interesting how long apart inventions happened in earlier days, contrary to now. But the women would still be the primary caretakers of babies and small children.

At least until the invention of the spear thrower, then even women could cast a spear hard enough to kill at a distance! Along the lines of what Larry said, although compound bows are a recent invention, these "colonists" would undoubtably retain the knowledge of human history and human inventions so the spear thrower and compound bow would probably be part of their arsenal. This would make all able-bodied adults (and some kids) hunters. Probably, as soon as possible, basic agriculture would be initiated along with domestication of the more useful native animals (assuming they didn't bring Cows, Sheep, Hogs, Chickens, etc with them). Naturally one of the first objects would be finding local sources of minerals and metals. I imagine that cannibalization of the vessel or vessels that brought them to the new planet would provide a relatively "modern" existence until such time as they could set up an infrastructure stable enough to continue a similar (if slightly less technological) lifestyle. Don't sell mankind short, we do learn and we are slowly becoming more than just another animal. They would probably have learned a great lesson and would attempt to pass this learning on the future generations (assuming that the shallow gene pool didn't doom them all)

I would see who's qualified for each, then let people choose.

The only jobs for the babies is:

TO GROW UP DAMN FAST

Amen to that Brother!

Interesting......

This is how I knew the quote: Behind every great man is a great woman.

How about 'behind every great woman is a jealous man'



"women who behave rarely make history"

I think it goes Behind every great man is a great woman with a great big stick!

irish, is the stick a rolling pin or a broom?

Behind every great woman is a man with a big stick?

oh boy, bacca! .......

Priority 1. Shelter/warmth, who do you assign? Why? Man usually know how to construct the buildings but the women will design them. 3 men 2 women.

Priority 2. Food, hunting and gathering, who do you assign? Why? 3 men gather food and two women cook food.
Priority 3. Order and structure, eventually government and law. who do you assign? 3 women are in charge of order and 2 men.
Priority 4. Protection and security, from wild beasts and hostile inhabitants. Why?12 men. because they are usually stronger
Priority 5. Education and nurturer of the children. Who do you assign? Why? 12 women because their natural instinct is to nurture,. Also they are more knowledgable in education and better understanding of the children.

The children are too young to have roles other then being children. They can help out with their fathers and mothers as they are needed and wish to do so.

you are holding to some very old and untrue stereotypes there, 101.

So I see it fit. But I did equally give the men and women roles. Did I not?

Your following stereotypes of what men and women are best at doing 101 and it isn't true. What if five of the women had been in construction and five of the men had been teachers? Some women have no natural ability to nurture as you put it and not all men are strong. What if one of the women was exceptional with a bow and arrow or a spear and a man vomited every time he saw blood? Not all men are stronger then women and not all women are kinder the men. But what you put you seem to think that is how things are but it is not accurate to how people really are

Typical man and women are this way. But I see what you mean. But Irish asked who would you appoint. Well I thought of people I knew who I would appoint. I thought of the people I would escape this world with.

No a typical man and woman are not this way, you just think they are or should be because that is what you were taught

My dad, his dad,my uncles all are very manly.

My mom,her mom,my aunts are akll very femine? So how am I stating what is wrong if this is all I know.

And a man can be very manly and still be a hair dresser. I know my Uncle is one.

So you don't know anyone outside your family? You can't look around and see that even a manly man may be better fitted to designing a house or teaching children where even a feminan women may be a very good builder? The world is a lot bigger then your family 101 and you need to see things as bigger then that.

I know there is bigger things then just my family but I rarely see manly women and feminie men running around my rural area. Sorry bacca I cannot say I see many of these people. God maybe I should go to your town then I would see the world as it truly is.

Your problem is that you are so stuck in what you think things should be that you obviously don't see what is right in front of you.....Just because a man is three hundred pounds of muscle doesn't mean that he can handle blood or construction. Just because a woman is small and feminine doesn't mean that she couldn't build a structure. Or hunt and kill an animal. You don't seem to see anything past what you want to and that is very sad.

But wouldn't a man with muscle be able to better do the hunting then a frail women? I mean come on bacca your feminist attitude is blinding your survivakl skills. Step off your high horse and let the man with the capability do his job.

101, do you know anything about lactic acid? the more muscular you are, the quicker you burn out. that is why endurance atheletes are small. a massive guy running in the forest would be done in too quickly to be an efficient and effective hunter.

Hyper but not all men are muscular.

and not all women are frail!

yet still to this day we see too many women playing the part of "the helpless woman", either out of conditioning or to take advantage of the stereotype in society. in eithr case it is sad.

I can say I am not frail myself but I do not play helpless woman. But I know some that do. I do like it when a man mows my lawn or takes out the trash I dispise those chores.

101 I would never deduce that you aren't a helpless women by the post s you write or by the things you defend we have been trying many different ways to open your eyes to a bigger picture and try to see women as empowered beautiful people who are worthy of respect and fair treatment and you are maintaining that women have certain roles , even after on another site Galatians 3:28 clearly states no one is better than anyone and you said "I'M glad you posted this" Namaste Sheri

i agree with bacca, 101 your seeng the world very old fasionly, i wonder whats your profesion with such a view on life? anyway the world isnt like that anymore, and in the situation irish ment in would depend on the people involved (i doubt you could choose who to take with you when the world is destroyed)

We aren't I never said I was lesser or better then anyone. Why do you think and others think I am a prerson who is helpless when I just clearly am not a feminist. Just because I don't enforce woman are all powerful and we are just as capable as men are doesn't mean I don't feel this. God what is wrong with just sitting back and relaxing.

bold added by me.

you project an underlying cast structure that perhaps you don't even realize is there because it is just the norm to you.