Michael Moore, as you may know, has made a couple movies, Bowling for Columbine and Farenheit 9/11. He has also written a book or two, but I forgot the name Anyways, Do you think he's on to something, or being a hypocritical liar?

There is some truth to what he says, no doubt about that, but it is the way he says it that bugs me. People who like him often have nothing but bad things to say about Fox News, that it is propaganda and so on, which it is, but MM is just like Fox just on the other side of the fence, just as bad.

I think he does tell the truth for the most part> i think people just dont like him because the way he carries himself. He looks like a lazy slob most of the time.

Like many others , he has truth but skips some important facts for bushes side. Has anyone seen Farenhype 9/11

I think you need more options for the vote... Moore tells the truth but he twists facts as he does it. These twisted facts give his arguments a much stronger footing. He feels he needs such a strong footing because hes trying to "wake" up the American people to whats gong on around them. Even if half of his points are lies or twisted facts in his movies, the remaining truths should be enough for anyone to hate the Bush government.

I think he is a cool guy. I almost met him once as he is from the same state i live in and was on campus hanging out talking with ppl. However i had to work that day. I have alot of respect for him.

This man has done more damage to the USA, then Bin Laden.. he's vicious lie's and anti-american views make me sick.. I say we put a gun in his hand and send him to the front line in Iraq.. Then maybe he would have something to cry about for real!

To be realistic on your poll you really need some in-between categories. Moore is not a complete liar; nor does he tell the complete truth. Everyone has an agenda when they speak (well most people) thus all information is tainted in some way or another.



I disagree with this contrast. First, Moore’s voice is a fart in the wind when compared to the hurricane of crap Fox News pumps out daily. Second, Fox has millions of daily viewers that are indoctrinated with lies, hate and fear; while a person who watches Moore’s agenda driven movies only watches them once.

I sure wish someone would knock Bill O'Reilly on his A$$ - how can this station be considerate a news source when the anchor tells his guest to, “shut up!” This is not news, its entertainment like Jerry Springer.

Yeah I saw Farenhype 9/11, that's when my disgust for Michael Moore began. I think he's a smart man who knows how to manipulate people into believing what he wants, and only what he wants. He leaves out large parts of stories and makes them into something that will benefit himself and the liberal people of the U.S.

Go Republicans!

Michael Moore is hated by those who are easily manipulated by corrupt governments, he only makes some people mad because they do not like it when they have the truth rubbed in there face. Some would prefer to stay ignorant and convince them self that his debunkers are right.

I have looked into all the subjects and claims that Moore makes, and 9 out of 10 of them are 100% spot on, maybe the another 1 he might have exaggerated somewhat, but on the most part he is a blessing to America, showing people how America is going down the pan is good, even if many of its country folk prefer to put there heads in the sand. If more people where like Moore America would be the country its forefathers wanted it to be. Some of the things are blatant and in your face, things you cant hide from but so many people have hidden from them which is just scary. Ignorance is bliss eh?

Its quite scary to think that no matter what evidence is showed for all to see that so many people will look past it.

All the best
Faeden

MM and evidence shouldnt be used in the same sentence, they dont go together very well.

Here is a nice article on his latest little movie/propaganda piece -

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723

Just my opinion, one that will not change, not unless there is real evidence to prove he is a lair, which so far no one has even come close, they only slandered him, and called him names because of his weight.

I have already read that link Pann and its no different from the rest of the dishonest crap that people desperately put out to try and discredit him.

Before Moore started to become more well known, he said in a interview that he expected a back lash, and even correctly predicted the things that would be said about him as republicans are so predictable its not even funny.

Nice try tho

All the best
Faeden

All partisan propaganda has a slant, Republican AND Democrat. Most of the time our only option is to side with who we feel is the lesser of two evils, depending on our own opinions. It's hard to wade through the boggy muck of lies coming from either party most of the time, and I'm suspicious of anyone who's trying to sell any viewpoint.

And I'm registered as an Independent.

He is a very talented fiction writer .

And one could say that he is loved by those who are easily manipulated by propaganda, and he only makes those people happy because of their hatred for Bush....

Well let’s stop all the FBS and get to the bottom of this. Moore haters, would you please show us these blatant lies so we may all look at them. Not a web site that someone has set up to beat down Moore - how about something you believe is a lie. Show us so we can all look into it.

That’s just it they do not have anything to back up there claims that Moore is a lair, they just make silly statements.

Bush is corrupt and only cares about his power hold over people, and is using many of the American people like puppets on a string.

All the best
Faeden

I'll give you one example that can be verified by anyone. There's a frame in Bowling for Columbine that shows a column of Iraqi armored vehicles. The text on screen says(paraphrasing here): "In 1990, Iraq, armed with U.S. weapons, invaded Kuwait."
Not only is there not a single piece of U.S. equipment in the shot, but the vast majority of Iraq's arsenal at that time was composed of Soviet, Chinese and French weapons. There was only one modern US weapon system in their inventory at the time of the invasion: the M109 self-propelled artillery piece. Their tanks, missiles, small arms, aircraft, etc. were almost entirely from the countries mentioned earlier.

So, he's either lying or he does sloppy research.

I would like to vote for: He's has some EXCELLENT points, but masks them by being a self-serving, hyperbolic, pompous ass. Any good he could do is often overwhelmed by his enflamed rhetoric and posturing for publicicty.

Never saw his films and I'm proud of it.

I think he is a stupid queer making money off stupid american teenagers

Hey faeden have you ever been to america? Or done any research once so ever on Bush or is that what came off the top of your head? I for one one dont really like Bush but he is a hell of a lot better than the other canedates.

Hi ya cody

Been to America twice, My girl friend is American, and I hear all about it. I never got it of the top of my head no, they are my opinions based on what I see, and have experienced, I read up about this stuff because it interests me. To me its blatant common sense, and I am sorry if you cant see it, but I appreciate your opinions, even if they are clouded.

I look at so called "liberal" families and I look at republican families, and the difference in happiness and contentment is shocking between the two, more than not the liberal families are a lot more happier, I suppose republicans bring it down on them selves with there blind beliefs and aggressive ways of dealing with things that never work, and that only makes situations worse, and causes them to be ignorant to the crap they talk, even when it doesn’t work even in front of there own eyes. Brain washing is scary stuff…..

All the best
Faeden

That's the silliest thing I've ever heard, not to mention very very prejudice. I'm the happiest person I know and I lean to the right.

I have seen Farenhieght 9/11, I found it very interesting. What I have learned most of all from Micheal Moore is that very few people on both sides seem to know how to tell fact from fiction if you present it the right way.

The movie actualy had some credible facts in it, which have been discredited (allthough are still factual) because the mis-timed edits and sensationalism used to get Micheal Moores point across were so damned blatent, that any-one with half an analytical mind would have spotted them.

Watch the movie with an open mind, look only for evidence which provides a source then tell me how you feel about Micheal Moore.

Sloppy Research? http://www.sundayherald.com/27572
http://www.doublestandards.org/mackay1.html
http://eatthestate.org/07-09/ListCompaniesSold.htm
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timelin...ort_of_iraq_wmd


hmmm Why do you talk about the"one shot/or piece of film"?

^


So this statement has been found to be true, correct? "In 1990, Iraq, armed with U.S. weapons, invaded Kuwait. Not only is there not a single piece of U.S. equipment in the shot […] “

Now if the text in the movie frames would have said, "these armored vehicles are Iraqi forces armed with U.S. weapons etc ..." it would have been a lie because the trucks in the video may not be of US armament.

Is this misleading? Yes! The video shown and the text/dialoged shown should be of the same presents, but they are not; and in-fact most things we see on tv are not shown in reality. Everyone does this, including the nature channel and there is no way it is going to be stopped.

Moore in this case is not lying; he is telling the truth while showing stock footage of Iraqi armored vehicles. Hell, do we even know if the video is of Iraqi vehicles? For all we know the footage was made in a Hollywood basement.

As to the last part of your statement, “[…], but the vast majority of Iraq's arsenal at that time was composed of Soviet, Chinese and French weapons”

I have been looking for info on this and I find that some of these countries are known contributors to the arming of Iraq. I cannot find proof to your statement that, “[…] the vast majority of Iraq's arsenal at that time was composed of Soviet, Chinese and French weapons."

Looks to me, in this case, Moore is telling the truth.

Next …


Democracy Now! – go to 45:45 to listen to how Reagan sold Saddam weapons.
http://www.archive.org/download/dn2004-060...0609-1_64kb.mp3

You sound a bit extreme about this. Bush is a horrible president, but I agree Michael Moore is a bit of a tard, but none of these gives him a reason to be shot at!

He has been proved to twist things around, to suit his purpose, might not be lying but it is really just as bad.

Show me where I call him names, I dont care what he looks like, I dont like him because of what he does, not what he looks like.

Then you need to look further, most of Saddams conventional weapons came from the USSR, most of the rest came from France, the equipment for his nuclear program came from France, including a nuclear reactor. The equipment needed to make biological and chemical weapons, including complete factories came from Germany.
Yes, some US weapons were used by Saddam as he invaded Kuwait, but the question is how much of those were bought form the US, or captured from iranians in the war against them. Iran as we all know was a large custmoer of US weapons before the revolution in 1979. What the US supplied to Iraq during that war was intelligence info, mostly in the form of satellite pictures of iranian lines.

Hi Girty

I did not say all pro violence people where unhappy, I said many, I am just going on what I experience and see, if you look at most families that are republicans, especially in the deep south, they are mostly depressed, oppressed, fearful people who thrive on hate and aggression, some of them racists too, sorry but that is just how it seems.

All the best
Faeden

Crackpot

*click*

(I do think he likes to tell lies though)

Alrighty then....Faeden has the honor of being the 2nd persons posts that I block. Congratulations!!!!

I will no longer subject myself to constant, veiled insults, lies and rhetoric about the US.

And, don't bother to apologize, because I know it would be as shallow as most of your posts, pretending we are naive enough to think that you don't love to inflame when you yourself laughed about how you enraged someone to the point he actually punched his computer screen.

Enjoy yourself on that lonely pedestal of yours...I, for one, will be a happier person not listening to the your particular brand of ignorance.

I feel so honoured of this title of Michelle’s 2nd banned UM member… first of all id like to thank god, my manager, and my family, and all those that supported me......... I couldn’t have done it with out you. Can you really ban members and not see there posts ? Who’s the 1st Michelle banned member? Id like to shake there hand.

Point proven. Thanks you did my cause well.

Isn’t is funny how aggressive haters cant stand the fact that others have beliefs and opinions that might be different than there own. Did you punch your computer screen? Computer screen abuse is a terrible thing. Go Michael Go Michael.....

All the best

Faeden

Faeden, your sig quote's got me a little creeped out right now... in the movies, aren't the clinically proven psychos always right about their predictions?

Back on topic, I would've posted some of my own debunking(if any ) but I fell asleep 1/4 of the way into Farenheit 9/11(funny, I really wasn't that tired ) So, here's a nice site for everybody to check out. Bowling For Truth

I've noticed that trend with Faedon, myself. I try to avoid discussion with people who are passive-aggresive and unable to truly give a bold statement rather than hiding behind snide and, as Michelle said, veiled comments. It seems he is actually perpetuating this bigoted and stereotypical mindset that he claims to be so adamantly against.

Faedan, 'Republican' does not equal pro-violence nor does being a southern American equal oppressed, bitter racist. Stop making these rude and semi-hidden jabs at people about which you know only 2nd hand information. I know you think we "deep South" Americans are too dumb to catch on, but we've been insulted by far better.

This thread has nothing to do with geographic mentalities.

You are arrogant and guilty of the same small-mindedness that you seem to want to accuse everyone else of.

For the record, I am a "deep south" American who has never been a supporter of Bush, is agnostic, is well-educated, does not eat red meat and recyles. So much for stereotypes.

Hi JennRose



In my opinion most republicans are pro-violence.

I do not believe all southerners from America are oppressed or pro-violence, please go back and re read my posts and stop twisting my words. I said something along the lines of many are, based on what I can see and have experienced.



I did not say you supported Bush and nor did I say that all southerners supported Bush. Again please stop twisting my words....

Hi TaintedDoughnuts

Its from the movie Twelve monkeys, I do not think its a real quote from a mental person, it was just made for the movie, but i might be wrong, I just think it sounds creepy like you said

All the best
Faeden

I'm sorry, but how did I misread that? "republicans, especially in the deep south, they are mostly depressed, oppressed, fearful people who thrive on hate and aggression, some of them racists too" Those are your exact words, I don't know how else they can be construed.

And I know you didn't say there that all Southerners supported Bush, I was just listing some common negative stereotypes of the deep south. I didn't say you accused me of not recycling either, I was just making a point.

Hi Jennrose

Please notice the words most and some

Thinking more about this, maybe the most word was a little harsh and overzealous, Ill change it to many. Some republicans are racists, more so than most other groups.

I am quite sad that you think that I am nasty, or bad, I actually like you and your posts, I normally agree with a lot of what you say I still will though, its good to see folks so passionate about environmental issues, keep up the good work

All the best
Faeden

Ok, ok, I don't think you are "bad" or "nasty", just arrogant. But I am, too, so we are even.

I realize how we Americans (especially the Southerners) are portrayed all over the world, and it's very frustrating and a sore subject for me. And sadly, there ARE indeed people that are exactly like the worst of the stereotypes, but really most of us try to distance ourselves from this segment.

And thanks for the support for the environment. It's a passion of mine.

Thanks Jennrose

I do not believe all stereotypes about southerners, like they are BBQ crazy, that is obviously the Australians I know what you mean though, some people think that Texans are all like the people in the Texas chainsaw massacre, when its obviously the folk in Louisiana that are like that... (Joke)

The bottom line is I really do not like George Bush, and what he stands for, I think what he stands for is what is wrong with this world. I do not look at him as any different than Osama, or a suicide bomber, he has just as much blood on his hands, and that applies to Blair too.

All the best
Faeden

Faden your painting with a broad brush. I can say that most liberals are tree hugging idiots.It does not mean it fits all liberals are even a majority I am a happy republican. Do I agree with all of the stands of the party. Hell no. I sure is hell don't believe republicans are pro violence. That is a stupid statement. I will say liberals want to punish financial success with higher taxes. That is a true statement. The government was not founded to take care us from cradle to grave.

Yeah but he's a hell of a lot better than anyone the Dems have thrown up there to go against him. To date that is. Now if someone comes along that has better qualifications and views, then I'm all for it. But guys come on John Kerry? Yikes!

I am a tree hugging idiot, and I am proud of it. Its better than ruining the planet because of greed, and blowing everyone up that gets in the way of that greed.

I'm a tree hugger too.. And faedens right hugging trees never destroyed anything or killed anyone. Anyways we r all entitled to our beliefs and opinions. I just dont understand why ppl get so effended by someone elses views on an internet forum.

Greed is good. It is what pushes economies to grow.It is why the US is the most powerful country in the world. People that think money is bad are the ones that have no ambition. Also, you can be environmentally aware and be republican.

Perhaps that would read better as "ambition" is good?

Well I give you one thing, at least your honest.

There is nothing wrong with money no, but there is something wrong with it if you destroy things that effect others negatively to get it.

Some of the most greedy and richest people in the world more than not end up with nothing that matters. Most people normally realise how worthless money is when they become terminally ill, it puts it into perspective. Id rather live in a country that is poor and kind than one that is rich and selfish.

Making money is fine and all good, but greed isn’t, making money and greed are not the same thing.

All the best
Faeden

My husbands and I's small company had done countless environmental clean-ups, we are very conscientious about recycling and protecting the natural resources and historic structures.

I know Faeden is probably rubbing his hands together in glee, thinking he infuriated me, which in fact, he did not. But, I will not stand by a let ANY ethnic group or nationality be insulted, and that includes my own. Pay attention and you will see that I come to the aid of people being insulted regardless of who they are unless I feel they they have asked for it in some way.