If you were to die tomorrow...Finally theres a rush of something, you cant explain it...But you're dead...theres meant to be nothing...Whats going on? You finally wake to find yourself in this empty realm, darkness- silence...Whats happening? Suddenly you hear the voice of God...and he says... "You had no faith in me- why is that so?" .... what would you answer to this calm, loud & protective voice?

You're not physically there, yet you can still feel...feel an emotion...blood rushing to your head...cold tingle and shivers down your spine. God wants an explanation! Yet nothing comes out of your mouth.

Suddenly you verge into a midst of emptyness, just what you expected when you were living...Nothing. Imagine...Living in nothingness- your own personal hell. While you know there are souls a level up enjoying paradise, you are inside this empty shell- all alone. No joy, no happyness- no sense of time- just living for nothing. Exactly what you did on Earth. If God existed and wanted an explanation for why you abandoned him from your life- what would you say?

Think of it...What if?

According to christian dogma, he would already know the answer, wouldn't he?

Think of it: what if humans finally grew up and discarded the infantile tales of superstition, and fear, and reached their full potential.

what if?

Then i would finally know i am right. Since i believe in him!

I would smile at my Creator and ask, "Where are you going to put all those misguided Christians, Jews, and Moslems?" I suspect he would tell me, "Beloved Child, I will ask each of them why they followed such blood-thirsty religions and then administer a punishment of 2 weeks in Hell, after which I will forgive them and grant them my full love." You see Ramster83, there is no evidence that your God is THE God...I can't worship a god as patently evil as yours has been throughout the history of your religion....I much perfer the Creator as many Deists see him/her/it, a gentle, loving and forgiving God. When you can show me a war started by Deists, a genocide perpetrated by Deists, an entire people enslaved by Deists or an entire land stolen by Deists, then I will remove the charges of blood-thirsty lodged against your god - CD

I'm actually a unitarian. So my belief system is much more "branched" than your typical Christian. Theres nothing wrong with my God. You seem to blindly blame my God for bloodshed and violence when the number one sin is THY SHALL NOT KILL. My God wrote the 10 commandments, all of which are beautiful and pure and humane- Gods not evil. People are its very simple. People kill in Gods name because they have no other shield to hide under, people blame God for plenty of things, but in the end its no ones fault but that persons. You can see only the bad in my religion if you want, but you cant see the bad in my God- cause my God is good...OUR God is good! Besides i believe that all people that believe in a God are in perfectly good hands- doesn't matter what actual religion you are. Even im not going to accept that God only loves a select people, the most important things are to be great people and do good deeds and believe in your higher power- and things should be fine. This question was more directed at full blown athiests who are more than convinced that God doesn't exist. If he were and wanted to chat with them, what would they say to convince him that it was ok for them to have zero faith.

A true loving god wouldn't care if you believe in him. As long as you are a kind person who doesn't cause intentional harm...why would he? Or are Gods feelings so easily hurt that he's sitting up there on a cloud crying that some really kind wonderful people choose not to believe in something that there is no proof of what so ever.....

Why are you pushing faith?

Is it because you care so much for all gods creatures that you don't want them to miss out on what your religion preachs?

Or is it that you are afraid that they might have the answer, which eludes you?

Why doesn't it ever sink in that maybe, just maybe, other people are friggin happy the way they are?

I've said it before, and this is the last time I'll say it:

WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN, WHICH IS GOOD FOR YOU, IS NOT NECESSARILY GOOD FOR ME.

Good night, and good bye. Have a wonderful life and the afterlife you deserve.

"How long have you got?"

Excuse me? "Pushing Faith"? Why am i even on this board if im not allowed to ask a very simple, straight forward question that thus far people have had difficulty to answer. Im not saying you must believe in God- but lets put some people in the hot seat for a moment. This is a board for skeptics and believers...its a VS board- both believers and non believers have the right to say what they want here as long as they are not offending anyone. My question was absolutely moderate and healthy to ask- why do people get so offensive when theyre put on the hot seat- are you afraid to answer?

Bacca i understand what you're saying, a pretty good response here. Yet i know if i was God, i'd want my creation to appreciate the life i've given to them, just a 'thank you' once in a while. I believe that God has a character or 'personality'...Of course he feels. I find a lot of athiests say theyre great people and it'd just be insulting if God were to exist to put them in a place of punishment. Lifes a miracle...sight, sound, touch- the beauty of nature that only the human species can appreciate...we're surrounded in pristine canvas art that God painted for us, and i think Gods true domain is in nature, forget churches.

Anyways Bacca you responded well.

After re-reading my post, I fail to see where I said you shouldn't post your beliefs.

I see you also failed to answer my questions.

As to WHY I posted what I did, it was because of your line:

This question was more directed at full blown athiests who are more than convinced that God doesn't exist. If he were and wanted to chat with them, what would they say to convince him that it was ok for them to have zero faith.

Why pick on one group of people who don't follow your party line?

You have your reasons for believing, and that is wonderful. I have my reasons for NOT believing, and that is wonderful too. Or isn't that good enough for you. And, by 'you' I mean all of you 'well meaning' believers who are out to save us poor atheists from ourselves.


What I do apologize for, and nothing else, is my harsh tone, which is not necessarily directed a ramster83, but at the whole "my belief is right and yours is wrong" mentality of many on this board.

But, since I cannot change your (collective) mind, then I shall have to settle for changing my venue.

This is off topic but what if you kill a bug or a rat or something, do you still go to hell or it only applies with humans?

Is it just be or are you being extremely biased? So its okay for Athiests to mock Christianity in every way on this board, stating my God as Violent, saying simply 'God is fake'- saying they wont take direction from a Jewish Carpenter, that the Bible is a fairy tale and the Tooth Fairy is more believable also saying Christians are violent, pushy people- etc.etc. Yet for a Christian to say something about "athiests" nowhere near as remotely offensive- it is suddenly not okay? I dont know, you stood up for me on a few posts- but now your showing some not so pretty colors!




Im sorry if you poor athiests feel like such targets- but seeming this is a Skeptic VS believers board dont you think that believers targets are just that...the skeptics? why would a believer come here and debate with another believer? Thats the whole point of this place. I never said its not okay to not believe in what you do- but my question only need apply to Athiests because they are the only ones that dont believe in nothing- hence my question was totally acceptable.




Hmmmm go on and defend the Christians too then. If you want to be all 'fair and square' then i want you to go and stop every offensive athiest on this board targetting Christians...Id like to see that indeed, if you're so opposed to it.



I have a very open mind, and i didn't mean any offence by anything i said here. None at all. Just learn to deal with it. This is a challenge board, opposites are debating here (Religious/ Non religious)- and please dont snap on me for something i didnt mean, i have no ill intentions at all towards athiests but dont be made out as victims on such a harmless post- when theres much more offensive posts still up here aiming at believers!

If I was a Christian:
I would say that I followed what I thought was right.
If I was Pagan (?):
I tried to do what was right.
Since I am nether I try to do what I feel is morally right.

I say this with respect Ram your Bible has many instances of violence in both the OT and the NT.

I wont deny that. The bible does have some violence in it. Yet i think it all comes down to the basics, the 10 commandments of which God basically seeks us to be the best we can be. I'll also stick by that people are evil not God- can you honestly feel right saying "God is violent"! Do you know what a perfect world would be? When we all act like Jesus- what a great example of a great man. Unfortunately there aren't many modern day Jesus' infact theres more evil now than ever that love blaming religion for their evil- i think its just a negative plot coming from evil sources to discredit God. He knows best anyways.

What would i answer, well seing as how i am an atheist, i dont believe in an almighty god. however i have mixed views on heaven and hell and reincarnation.

My answer to god would be that through the early years of my life i prayed and prayed and prayed and yet nothing good came to me in the long run. look at me now, im fat, ugly and i need glasses to see just about anything. is that a blessing? NO, god just sh** on me after i gave up my time for him. That is why i gave up christianity and any religion and took up my own beliefs.

Yeah i see thats a lot of reasoning that people turn away from religion- unanswered prayers. You say nothing good came to you in the long run. Are you absolutely sure about that? You can walk, talk, eat, laugh and just be. Many people have it a lot worse than you- yet have stronger faith than i do. I wont say your wrong doing what you did- some people just lose God. Yet i hope he does something grand for you in the near future...If you can lose God- im sure he can win you back. Goodluck with everything!

I'm not atheist but I don't worship gods or men either, but I think it would be funny if this god you worship said to me "I was just kidding, it was all a joke to see if those stupid people who worshipped me would really do it".
What I really believe is that our bodies die off and our energy goes back to the universe. Not to a ficticious place you call heaven or hell. So I really don't see the possibility of meeting some entity anyway.

and there is the reason for your belief: you expect there to be something out there that behaves the way you do (contrary to you behaving the way it does).

anything that does not die will have a vastly different perspective from something that does die. no human could ever be like or even remotely begin to appreciate what life as an immortal universe filling entity would be like. it is childish to think that if such a creature exists, it must think like a human.

so you your question: the scenario would not happen because i won't be communicating in english upon death, and no other forces out there would try to communicate with me in such a primative manner.

God wants an answer maybe because he doesn't understand why you don't want to be with him. He knows what you are going to say but wants to see what you say to justify yourself. Maybe. This is my opinion.

I wouldn't say a word. I assume by that point I wouldn't have to speak. All my thoughts and feelings would probably be able to be read like a book to such an almighty force.

I love the sincerity in this board! Its....phenomenally rare to catch this type of discussion


I think the words we speak (or english) are a way of expressing our thoughts to one another. By thinking, sure a supposed mind-reader(such as God) would know what we want to say...but I think expressing them physically through words really put out the meaning and we mean what we say.


Its like 'Thanking' God. You say 'thank you' out loud and you may mean it for once. Or maybe in the supposed afterlife, you talk to God...in your mind.

No not exactly, but God himself said we are made in his image. God created the Earth to do something(maybe he was bored?) After he created all he rested (hence he was probably 'tired'), God tested people to prove their faith in him, he wanted to see that what he created was worth while- You create a machine, you must test it first- to see that it does what you want it to do. Once its in operation you have the power to stop/end it when you want. I think God has personality and character out of these traits, but hes God- hes the universe...not a 'person'.

maybe so. I don't know why God wouldn't be able to hear your thoughts. He hears all of our prayers.

Ok Ram so we were created in his image as in how we are like? personal traits? wow I sure wouldn't want to worship a deity that can be as cold, jealous, vengeful as a human ahhh that's a scary thought actually

according to the mythology YOU have chosen for yourself ramstar.

i tend to think it is just a wee bit too egotisitical to be claiming man is in some almighy's image (and since we are on THAT mythology, he is not all that almighty at all! in fact his track record is pretty abismal for what he supposedly is. )

No...God bares no sin- we do though. Thats a vital difference. God is the universe but carries these personal traits in order to understand us more- or maybe in order for us to understand him more. God says hes forgiving, and understanding and loving- these are human traits too- why are you only seeking the bad of it? God never said he was jealous, cold or vengeful- this is what people are capable of...thats all.

actions, ramster, actions!

I'd like to compare Gods actions with a Mothers Spanking in many occasions

Yes people are cold, jealous vengeful and have killed in the name of God- but their cowards hiding under a shiled of 'immunity' since its God that apparently made them do this evil, its bullcrap- God is nothing short of pure- and we all fall short to his glory. Gods commandment is not to kill anyone. Simple. If you kill someone in the NAME of God its a double whammy for them then. Stop blaming God for the worlds violence and blame the people.

Its also funny how almost everyone has avoided the very specific question of this topic- and is trying to change the topic to something else. I simply asked what you'd say if there was a God/ Afterlife and he wanted an explanation for why you didn't believe in him. So back on track boys and girls.

ramster, i am not talking about people who kill in the name of...

i am talking about all the killing done first hand by this god in the abrahamic mythology! this is where people learned to kill in the name of! this god set the model for petty, vengeful, spiteful, murder.

Would you mind being more specific here?

your joking, right? i thought you were a reader of the christian bible. so who exacly is it you think that killed the firstborn male of every family, or who flooded the earth for examples.

First, we should note that the Tenth Plague was a last resort. The Plagues-process could have been precluded altogether by a 'reasonable' Pharaoh and could have been stopped anywhere along the way.

Second, there was no reason at all for Pharaoh to allow this to happen. He was CLEARLY warned—after nine previously confirmed announcements/experiences of plagues! Pharaoh had more 'extraordinary evidence' than probably any other non-Israelite in the world, and yet he did nothing to protect his people. He did not humble himself, to avert the all-too-certain judgment on his own son. He did not compromise after all he had seen...God gave Pharaoh a way out—in fact, 10 ways/chances out; Pharaoh give the Israelites ZERO.God's action was a one-time event, which stopped the continuing killing by Pharaoh; Pharaoh's program was every day, every year, every decade...The Egyptians probably died more humanely in their sleep (it was around midnight); the Israelite babies were thrown in the river to drown.God used a difficult judgment to stop a much, much larger program of atrocity. How long had His appeals to Pharaoh's and the Egyptians' sense of decency/compassion fallen on deaf/cold hearts???

Ah!!Another religious sales tactic, Namaste Sheri

Not peace but a sword?

Here is examples of your God’s non-violent nature, his desire not to shed blood, his forgiving nature” Note in particular how loving he is to bastards and the disabled...also note how he advocates slavery - Loving God, Yep, in a pig's eye:

God hardens the Pharaoh's heart. Exodus 4:21, 7:3, 7:13, 9:12, 10:1, 10:20, 10:27, 11:10, 14:4, 14:8
God tries to kill Moses. Exodus 4:23-25
God kills firstborn children and animals. Exodus 12:29-30
God drowns Pharaoh's army. Exodus 14:27-28
God punishes the children for the sins of their fathers (unto the third and fourth generations) . Exodus 20:5, 34:7
Instructions for buying a slave. Exodus 21:2
Instructions for selling your daughter. Exodus 21:7
Children who strike their parents are to be killed.Exodus 21:15
It's OK to beat a slave as long as he lives a day or two "for he is his money." Exodus 21:20-21
"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Exodus 22:18
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20
Sabbath breakers must be killed. Exodus 31:14-15, 35:2
If you have sex with a slave woman, you must then scourge her. Leviticus 19:20
Children who curse their parents, adulterers, and homosexuals must be killed. . Leviticus 20:9-12
Handicapped people must not approach the altar. . Leviticus 21:16-23
God's instructions for buying slaves. . Leviticus 25:45-46
God will "send wild beasts among you, which shall rob your of your children." . Leviticus 26:22
"The stranger that cometh nigh shall be put to death." . Leviticus 1:51, 3:10, 3:38, 18:7
God hates whiners. If God hears you complain he'll burn you to death. 11:1
Don't touch or look at "any holy thing" or God will kill you. . Leviticus 4:15, 20
God will punish you for the sins of your great-great grandfathers. . Leviticus 14:18
Don't gather sticks on the sabbath day. . Leviticus 15:32-36
God burns to death 250 men. . Leviticus 16:35, 26:10
God kills 14,700 with a plague. 16:41-50
God sends "fiery serpents" to bite the people. . Leviticus 21:6
God tells Moses to "take all the heads of the people and hang them up before the Lord." . Leviticus 25:4
God kills 24,000 (23,000 according to 1 Cor.10:8) in a plague. . Leviticus 25:9
God tells the Israelite men to kill all the males and non-virgin women, but to keep all the virgins alive for themselves. Moses tells his men to kill all the males and non-virgin women, but to keep all the virgins alive for themselves. Leviticus 31:14-18
Kill everyone with religious beliefs that are different than your own. (Including your family, friends, and neighbors) Deu 13:6-10, 13:12-16, 17:2-7
Kill rebellious or disobedient sons Deu21:18-21, adulterersDeu22:22, and rape victims if they fail to cry out loud enough.Deu 22:23-24
If you see a pretty woman among the captives then just take her home and "go in unto her." Deu 21:11-14
You can't go to church if your testicles are damaged or your penis has been cut off.Deu 23:1
A bastard can't attend church "even to his tenth generation." Deu23:2
Joshua killed "everything that breathed" in each of the cities that he conquered, "as the Lord God of Israel commanded." Josh 6:21, 8:24 - 40, 11:8 - 21
God threw down "great stones from heaven" so that he could kill even more people than the Israelites "slew with the sword." Josh 10:11
Remember that God "is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins." Josh24:19 - CD

Because of your followers. Because of the way many of them act. Because how they constantly think they know what you want (and it's funny how it differs from one sect to another... depending on what their Clergy leaders tell them they should think...) Because I opted for a more peaceful, less insane path that led to a Goddess and her consort, for a balance. Because I would rather worship nature as a joint effort between feminine and masculine... Just like the Goddess and her consort. Because if we're taught that all legends and myths are made up by early humans... why is this bit any different? Because I like thinking for myself and not what a clergy person tells me to think. Because Bast is allot more personable then you. Because of "If you love me you can come to heaven! If you don't you can burn for all I care." Because I am Pagan.

rebutle, refute, dissect, and try and shoot that down. I don't give a damn. Those are my reasons, and I will stand by each and every one.

This above quote is worth repeating. So many people especially atheists blame God for everything that goes wrong on earth. Yes, many wars are started and fought over religion, but that's because people are weak minded egotistical and ethnocentric. God allows wars because he hopes we will learn from our mistakes. LIfe is a learning experiance. We are here to make mistakes so we can grow from them. The vast majority of my freinds are atheists, so I deal with these people daily. From what I have experianced, is that the God of Atheism is what ever their trusted government tells them to be the truth. While we have people who follow the ten commandments, usually atheists or non believers follow the Humanist Curriculum, even if they don't know it:

"It's OK to lie. It's OK to steal. It's OK to have premarital sex. It's OK to cheat or to kill if these things are part of your value system, and you clarified these values for yourself. The important thing is not what values you choose, but that you have chosen them for yourself and without coercion of parents, spouse, priest, friends, ministers or social pressure of any kind."
--Humanist book used by many teachers in school, WEEP FOR OUR CHILDREN

I am a believer who has studied the near death experiances and know pretty much what to expect after I die. I can't wait honestly.

That’s like saying that Daddy allows the kids to play with dynamite and hopes they will learn from their mistakes…as Larry the Cable Guy says, “that’s like wiping before you poop, it jest don’t make sense!


I don’t know what the people you run around with really are (and it doesn't say much for you for hanging around them), sounds more like hooligans than atheists! I am not an Atheist, but I have known more moral Atheists than moral adherents of any religion. You seem to think that you must be a theist to be moral, this is not true at all, in fact the opposite is the norm!

I rejoice for them, they will be taught to think for themselves rather than mindlessly follow the words of men 2000 to 2600 years dead, men that thought that rabbits chew their cud, that insects have 4 legs, that the world is a flat disk with a dome above that the stars are stuck to. Ours children will learn that morals are what make society work and not something that an invisible guy said they should do for a reward after they die.

I am a believer of another deity who has studied the NDE and know that very few of those returning mention a specific Deity and some mention none at all. Even fewer mention any concept of Hell. I could care less either way, been prepared for the next step every since Vietnam – CD

ramster83: You seem to blindly blame my God for bloodshed and violence when the number one sin is THY SHALL NOT KILL. My God wrote the 10 commandments, all of which are beautiful and pure and humane- Gods not evil

Well . . . except that the penalty directed by God for not obeying the commandment of not working on the Sabbath was . . . death. The penalty for not honoring father and mother was . . . death. In Exodus there are a whole lot of sins for which the death penalty is proscribed by God.

Exodus 20 (KJV) says 13Thou shalt not kill

But Exodus 21 (KJV) says: 12He that smiteth a man, so that he die, shall be surely put to death.

15And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.

16And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

17And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

29But if the ox were wont to push with his horn in time past, and it hath been testified to his owner, and he hath not kept him in, but that he hath killed a man or a woman; the ox shall be stoned, and his owner also shall be put to death.

There are more death penalties in the Bible, required by God.

Is this how religion convinced you of such absurdity???NO deity would condone violence and wars only man does that and Goverments The responsibility lies with religions who teach false beleiefs and the people that beleive in them and up hold them, I don't subscribe to a beleive system as the one in the bible its insane to put faith into a system that doesn't work if you are in doubt about that you only need to look around at the world, If you truly want to make a difference start by stop denying the bible is the word of God its the word of man. Namaste Sheri

Of course God doesn't condone violence and wars, but he allows us free will to make our own mistakes. That includes making war and killing poeple. If God really wanted to make this world perfect he could but then we would not have free will to learn from mistakes. Unless you know what the purpose of life is then this won't make sense. I don't know if you believe in a God or not Sherri. One could argue that since wars exist their could be no god because no loving god would allow so much suffering.



If doesn't make sense if you don't know the purpose of life: To grow spiritualy in unconditional love, especially for your enimies. It really makes perfect sense if you have the right background information to construct your beliefs with. Your job as a father is to prevent or correct mistakes, not allow them to happen. God gives us free will to be evil or good, and promises not to intervene in our lives unless we ask him.

If you christians say you have free will and your decisions are your own, then why do so many of you follow chapter and verse in your book? A lot of wars were started by humans claiming they were "killing in the name of the lord". I would say that they were getting the notion from a book of fiction. Not any different than the kids today getting bad ideas from video games or the internet.

Well, I was going to type a lot of stuff but SC beat me to it. Thankyou Silver, you saved my fingers a lot of typing.

ramster83
What if my religion is right and you face my God/desses, and they look at you and say "Sorry, but you have to go back for more training." What would you say to them?

I'd be really upset.

the most honest answer yet, walken (well, at least up until that final breath anyway!)

Accually... I'd be to busy being dead to care.

Ah, touche'!