http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentSe...72154&t=TS_Home


looks like indian remains found north of toronto

bah, says I have to register... maybe will later... made me think of that Gilgamesh tomb though. Wonder what happened to that. The dimensions of the 'coffin' or whatever.

They found an Indian burial ground smack dab in the middle of downtown Edmonton not too long ago (I live near Edmonton). It was within a few feet of a major road, and there was such a fuss over it that they completely rerouted traffic in that area for several months, and built a new road that bypassed the area of the burial site. They even managed to halt plans for a nearby power station's expansion, which would come very close to the burial ground as well. I guess it makes sense that with all the places we've settled we'd end up near (or on) some burial sites.

WOW, what did they do with the remain? I hope they gave them back to the correct tribe, so they could be reburied with honor and love.

Checked out the site . . . but I don't want to register.

I've never understood this kind of thing
the council knocks down old houses where i live all the time but no one goes to look at the remains
Except a few kids maybe and an old man with a stick

Fascination, that's why.

Indian burial grounds are: Holy ground, It is wrong to dishonor the dead this way! I do not know any tribe that would allow their dead to be disrespected this way on purposes.. It is a shame that so much of the tribal land has been up-set!

Well said Isis!

For example, my Tribe is fighting to keep an area of our Rez from being explored.

There's a lot I could say and some of it is not very nice, so I'll hold my tongue.

I know it upset's me alot, I don't understand why people do not respect the rights we have over our tribal land.. I guess they feel like it's open to them for the taken, Hell they have took enough as i see it. Although i have never lived on a reservation i have great respect for my ancestors and the pain they had to live thru.

Oh, it's very upsetting! Especially when you think of all the broken Treaties.

Yes i agree with you to many lie's were told and all for greed!

Speaking of Indian Burial Grounds - the area my Tribe is fighting to protect contains Burial Grounds, as well as Sacred (Religious) Sites. The area where my ancestral home is located, has some burial grounds nearby.

I dunno. A whole lot of my ancestors are buried in Ireland, and I don't give a whit whether the remains are dug up, studied, or the like. If it were the grave of a really identifiable ancestor, such as maybe as far back as a great great grandfather or the like, I might get aggravated, but beyond that, who cares. The fact is, that if the burial was in Ireland, I wouldn't be able to tell if it were an ancestor or not, even that relatively little time ago. "Ancestors" thousands of years ago? Pure speculation, as far as I am concerned.

We are not talking about a thousand years, these are our ancestor most would be no different then your great great grandfather, And even though it may not upset you i can promise it does up set us, We are talking about land that was stolen from different tribe's not land which has been used for public grave yards.

With the urban sprawl here they aways find remains. Archeological surveys are required. My tribe has a mound at are ceremonial grounds that we put them in when the archeologists are done. We just buried some remains there not too long ago that they found at a campground up the road from me.

lapi'che ni'tis

Once again . . . . Well said, Isis!!

I agree
despite my earlier thread about my country
our traditions teach us that once your dead your body is empty and there has never been a dispute over who owns the land.
its all owned by the church
thats one reason why cremation in the uk is very popular.
so you can scatter your remains where the papists cant get them.
that and the fact that after 5000 years of history we're running out of holes in the ground
if i was an indian i would be counting coup on the archaeologists
that would put em off eh

That makes me think of a movie I once seen (I don't remember the name of the movie), where some archaeologists were digging in an Indian Burial ground. A group of Indians came upon them and the lead Indian said to the archaeologists, "Where's you're grandma buried? . . So we can go dig her up and put her in our museum."



That cracked me up!

Tree Burials, perhaps??

It is vert painful when you see your tribes land being disrepected in such a maner. I wish others could understand how we feel about our past as well as our future.

Amen!!

you're hebrew now ?
i thought you were blackfoot

You're rotten!

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???

<<Typo!>>

He can't help hisself trust me..

I wish people would remember this was once all our land every bit of it.

Yes . . I know!!



Yeah! . .

i understand what youre saying about burials
but you guys did have all that land for so long and what did you do to secure it
see we at least in england built coastal defences for when the invaders turned up
i cant help but think that if you'd built a few forts along the coast where the pilgrim fathers landed the land would still be much the same
you guys got it right at roanoake after all
it was when you started teaching them how to catch turkeys that you screwed it up
if i'd been in charge i would have thrown them all back into the sea
but hey thats just me
right

Marduk our biggest mistake was we trusted the white man.. your right we should have ran them back to England.

you're quite right
you should never trust us honkeys unless we've given you the money in advance, and even then keep us at arms length
we're a nasty insidious breed,
well i am anyway the rest of my race might not be so honest

Ok Marduk, i will not post how sweet and loveable you are, I would hate to blow your image. but i can promise you if we could do it all over your people would never have set foot on our land.

I guess we're just too damn friendly and trusting.

My people ?
they haven't been my people since 1783.

Wise guy uh.. your from the uk right! We want our land back..And we want people to stop disrespecting where we have buried our dead, Thats not must to ask is it.

It is a bit much to ask of me
what you want me to do, go to washington and punch the Pres until he gives in ?
if you pay the airfare i'll think about it

Well if the land can't be returned, how about reinstating some of those broken treaties?

Oh . . on second thought, why not reinstate ALL those broken treaties?

Well Marduk while you are there you can stop by and i explain to you it is so important to respected those who have lived and died before you!

you don't need to explain it to me, if anything my race is older than yours
its washington that needs telling.

This has nothing to do with Indian Burial Grounds, but I thought it would be of interest to post.

Quoting Charles M. Russell:

"In my book a pioneer is a man who turned all the grass upside down, strung bob-wire over the dust that was left, poisoned the water, and cut down the trees, killed the Indian who owned the land, and called it progress. If I had my way, the land here would be like God made it, and none of you Sons of B****** would be here at all!"

~CMR~

Marduk, You know i love you to death but this is very personal to alot of the tribes here because we where lied too. And i know you understand that and respect how our people feel, as well as how i feel about this.

I know how personal invasion is
my history is littered with it.
the celts
the romans
the vikings
the saxons
the normans
the germans
etc
we got rid of them all in the end or assimilated them
It still took us hundreds of years though.
Invasion isn't pretty but with the socio economic climate this planet has always had its a fact of life
And its something that we english are guilt of more then most.
but at least we gave it all back.

Yes but we where not given back our land and even now there are those who still try to take what we have left.

we weren't given our land back either
eventually after many generations we had inbred with the invaders so much that they became us, the land ownership becomes a moot point and life returns to normal
of course it also meant the destruction of our previous heritage but theres nothing that could be done to save it.
we would have died trying, as in fact many of us did.
if you go back far enough the real english were the picts.
they were here in 3000bce and had kings and mythology when they arrived via ireland and the orkneys
of course where they came from before that is still a total mystery to some
please don't think i am degrading Native Americans by saying this.
i have been commneting purely on the similarities between our two cultures

Marduk, I know you understand what i am saying, So i will let this go for now, I want for people to understand how important it is to let the tribes that are left, to live in peace and to respect how we feel about our dead and our land. To the Indian people the land is as holy as the church is to some white people. Thats all i want to say.

Marduk this is very important to me, I hope you do understand that.

lol of course i understand that
its why I have been agreeing with you all the way through
i hope YOU understand that

If the remains are indeed that recent, and I have no reason to doubt what you say, then you have every reason, IMO, to get upset. The thousands of years old ancestors concept is what is ridiculous to me. But then too, I am not at all religious either, and don't have use for ancestor worship, just another religion conjured up by humans as far as I am concerned. Then too, it is my opinion that what Native Americans do on their reservations should be entirely up to them. Government interference in their actions is uncalled for, so long as their actions don't spill out to the point where they affect their surrounding neighbors in a bad and significant fashion. I think that the various tribes are quite well able to determine their own destiny without "help" from the federal or state government.

You have some very interesting points there, Larryoldtimer.



I wish others felt/feel the same as you.


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Marduk, you know that Isis and Me love you dearly.

I'm glad that you Understand, because this is a very important and touchy subject with us.

How many times do i have to say i understand before you understand that i really do understand...
hehe
I'm a native tribesman myself

OK OK . . . I get what you're saying. I understand that you understand, now we all understand.