I have been killing myself looking for the part in the bible that says it is wrong for women to be with women. Lesbians. I've found the whole thing on unlawful sexual relations and still haven't seen anything saying being a lesbian is sin.
Am I just missing it???
I found the part where it says it's a sin to have sex with a girl when they're on their period and I found the part where it says it's a sin to have sex with animals but still nothing concerning women having sex with women.
Anybody know?
Full Version: I'm looking for something in the Bible.
Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > Unexplained Mysteries > Spirituality, Religion and Beliefs
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
There is plenty in the bible on male/male relationships. I honestly don't recall anyting on lesbian relationships, but we can assume the same applies to female's as it does male's.
Regards,
Regards,
QUOTE(TaintedDoughnuts @ Aug 14 2005, 08:18 PM)
1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
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Well that isn't saying those things are sins. What I'm looking for is it saying, "THIS IS A SIN" and then say it. This is the passage saying they won't inherit the kingdom of God (which, does that mean they don't go to heaven or what?)
And how is it they are thrown into a group including IDOLATORS?? How many of you have been asked to write an essay on your idol for English? I know I have.
Slanderers? You mean if someone were to say something like, "Oh, that chick over there is a whore, she sleeps with everyone." Let's say that's false, then they're slandering...does that mean they don't inherit the Kingdom of God either? I think everyone's done that.
And isn't it sexually immoral for the woman to be on top??? I don't see how any of these things are worthy of...er, ingeritance. wtf does that mean anyway O.o. Inherit the Kingdom of God? Heaven right?
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Aug 14 2005, 08:22 PM)
There is plenty in the bible on male/male relationships. I honestly don't recall anyting on lesbian relationships, but we can assume the same applies to female's as it does male's.
Regards,
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Regards,
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Well I thought so too, but when I was reading through it God was being REALLY specific about everything. Like instead of just saying "don't freakin' do incest", he lists like every single possible way that someone can do incest. If he's that specific about everything he should have at least put in there somewhere that lesbianism is wrong.
Another odd thing, when I searched the word "homosexual" nothing came up, but there it is in Tainted Doughnut's quote. Is it possible that they changed a previous word from an older version of the bible to "homosexuals" in a newer version?
That's right, so the King James version does not have the word "homosexual" in it. How odd. Wait maybe I'm just missing it!! *has no idea how to use a bible*
The book of leviticus has a reference to male/male sex.
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
The rest of livitus is rather a hoot as well. LOTS of putting people to death for imagined transgressions...it is a side splitter.
More can be found here:
Linky Dinky
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
The rest of livitus is rather a hoot as well. LOTS of putting people to death for imagined transgressions...it is a side splitter.
More can be found here:
Linky Dinky
QUOTE(joc @ Aug 14 2005, 08:36 PM)
Thanks for the link I'll be reading it. I'll post when I'm finished.
QUOTE(Fluffybunny @ Aug 14 2005, 08:37 PM)
The book of leviticus has a reference to male/male sex.
20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
The rest of livitus is rather a hoot as well. LOTS of putting people to death for imagined transgressions...it is a side splitter.
More can be found here:
Linky Dinky
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20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
The rest of livitus is rather a hoot as well. LOTS of putting people to death for imagined transgressions...it is a side splitter.
More can be found here:
Linky Dinky
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lol yeah I read that stuff hehe
Homosexual is a recent term to describe the sexual act of a man and man or a woman and woman. It's not in the Bible anymore than the term "gay" is in the Bible to mean homosexual either.
No man shall lie with another man as he does a woman - Fluffy posted the Leviticus passage. There are other's but I haven't got a Bible handy right now to search.
The Corinthians passage that TD posted - They will not inherit the Kingdom of God. To inherit the Kingdom of God is to enter heaven. None who do this will enter heaven, ie they did the wrong thing.
Although it is also prudent to note here that the passages are condemning the act of homosexuality, not the people themselves. God loves each and every person. Homosexuality is just another way that people can go against God.
Regards,
No man shall lie with another man as he does a woman - Fluffy posted the Leviticus passage. There are other's but I haven't got a Bible handy right now to search.
The Corinthians passage that TD posted - They will not inherit the Kingdom of God. To inherit the Kingdom of God is to enter heaven. None who do this will enter heaven, ie they did the wrong thing.
Although it is also prudent to note here that the passages are condemning the act of homosexuality, not the people themselves. God loves each and every person. Homosexuality is just another way that people can go against God.
Regards,
QUOTE
Although it is also prudent to note here that the passages are condemning the act of homosexuality, not the people themselves. God loves each and every person. Homosexuality is just another way that people can go against God.
The whole thing about putting those that were homosexual to death kind of throws that theory out the window...
Being homosexual is not a choice or lifestyle; study after study in medicine and psychology supports the idea...How can god punish a person for doing something that he designed them to do? (Presuming that god does the designing and the judging as set forth in the bible)
It just doesn't make sense....
QUOTE
It just doesn't make sense....
I am in a 'shock and awe' mood tonight...
...You are correct sir! It doesn't make any sense. Isn't it interesting that included in that entire diatribe of laws is the law of tithing? And isn't it most fascinating that the Church's...every last one of them...have shrugged off that entire litany of law...with the exception of...the law of tithing? Isn't it interesting?
Joc, I'm reading this piece-by-piece and so far am loving it. I shared it with my partner and she thinks the same.
QUOTE
Joc, I'm reading this piece-by-piece and so far am loving it. I shared it with my partner and she thinks the same.
You're welcome...I didn't actually read it myself...I am way to lazy for that...I just input Lesbian and Bible into the Yahoo search engine and found it...but as I skimmed through it, I realized it was within the same venue of questioning you are experiencing. Hope it helps.
QUOTE(joc @ Aug 14 2005, 09:16 PM)
QUOTE
Joc, I'm reading this piece-by-piece and so far am loving it. I shared it with my partner and she thinks the same.
You're welcome...I didn't actually read it myself...I am way to lazy for that...I just input Lesbian and Bible into the Yahoo search engine and found it...but as I skimmed through it, I realized it was within the same venue of questioning you are experiencing. Hope it helps.
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lol well thanks anyway. Maybe I'll post some quotes from it, since it's so freakin' long, heh.
Here are some quotes from it:
"All of this hate is a sickness in our society that comes from ignorance about homosexuality. Our society must become informed, enlightened about it. Those who are involved in discussions in denominations and churches about it must study it and not speak from ignorance of it and the result of ignorance: prejudice."
"The lynching of Blacks has almost passed, but not the lynching of gays and lesbians. Some one hundred hate-crime murders of gays and lesbians are recorded in the U.S. each year. Most receive little press. An exception was Matt Shepard--beaten and tied to a fence to die in Wyoming because he was gay. Shortly afterwards, gays and lesbians all over America received faxes, emails and phone calls saying, "Matt Shepard is dead; you may be next." Two such murders have had books written about them. A man walking in a wilderness area in Pennsylvania observed from a distance two women camped there, and they were holding hands. He walked back to his truck for his rifle. One of the women survived his shooting and wrote the book, Eight Bullets."
"Gays in a major city complained to the police that it was not safe for them to walk in their neighborhood. The police didn't believe them but finally had plain-clothes officers walk there as decoys. The officers, mistaken for gays, were attacked by men with baseball bats. Twelve men were finally arrested for homophobic attacks in that one neighborhood. An article in our paper a few days ago told of a man asking where the nearest gay bar was; he said he wanted to shoot some queers. A few minutes later he did. Such things are happening everywhere in America, and gays and lesbians live in constant anxiety about these kinds of hate crimes."
"Homosexuals do not have the natural protection of the law that others have. There are nationwide laws against discrimination on the basis of race and national origin, but only one-fifth of our states have laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation--there is no federal law. The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld laws in two states making same-gender sex illegal. A Dallas judge gave a light sentence to a murderer explaining that the victim was only a homosexual. What encouragement is thus given to gay-bashers! The hatred gays and lesbians encounter, added to the psychological problems most face in accepting their homosexuality, make many of them live in an ever-present milieu that borders on trauma."
"What made me, a heterosexual, fall in love with a person of the opposite gender? I can't say--it is just some innate characteristic of my makeup. In the homosexual, that characteristic works differently for some yet unknown reason, and the falling-in-love process is directed at the same gender. But it is a true falling in love. It isn't a sexual thing for them any more that it is for heterosexuals."
"While some homosexuals are sexually lustful and promiscuous, the percentage may actually be lower than that of heterosexuals. The pornographic industry, estimated at up to one hundred billion dollars a year, the gentlemen's clubs, the brothels, internet pornography, etc. are all supported by heterosexual lust. That industry annually lures two thousand teenage girls into prostitution in the city of Dallas alone."
"If we look at a heterosexual man or woman and do not immediately think of sex, then when we look at a gay or a lesbian, we should not immediately think of sex. They are people like us with the same needs and concerns, problems and failures and successes and sorrows and joys that we have, plus lots of problems that we do not have. What is a homosexual act? Examples: a gay man walking his dog or a lesbian fixing her supper."
"Until the late nineteenth century, as already mentioned, the concept of homosexuality was totally unknown. No Bible writer knew of homosexuality, so no Bible writer could have said anything about it. When the Bible speaks of same-gender sex, it is always talking about heterosexuals who are given over to such lust that they commit lustful acts. There cannot be anything in the Bible that says anything about (unknown) homosexuality or homosexual people or acts by homosexuals."
"Heterosexual sex acts are also condemned by the Bible whenever they are lustful, but that doesn't mean all heterosexual sex acts are condemned. It is the lust that is condemned, not an act. If we recognize that opposite-gender sex can be either lustful and evil as in rape or be moral and beautiful as between loving spouses, we must recognize the possibility that same-gender sex can be moral and beautiful, as well as lustful and evil."
These are just some of the things in here. I understand it's a lot to read, but skim through it and look at some things, please. This world needs to change. Pass these things on to other people, too.
"All of this hate is a sickness in our society that comes from ignorance about homosexuality. Our society must become informed, enlightened about it. Those who are involved in discussions in denominations and churches about it must study it and not speak from ignorance of it and the result of ignorance: prejudice."
"The lynching of Blacks has almost passed, but not the lynching of gays and lesbians. Some one hundred hate-crime murders of gays and lesbians are recorded in the U.S. each year. Most receive little press. An exception was Matt Shepard--beaten and tied to a fence to die in Wyoming because he was gay. Shortly afterwards, gays and lesbians all over America received faxes, emails and phone calls saying, "Matt Shepard is dead; you may be next." Two such murders have had books written about them. A man walking in a wilderness area in Pennsylvania observed from a distance two women camped there, and they were holding hands. He walked back to his truck for his rifle. One of the women survived his shooting and wrote the book, Eight Bullets."
"Gays in a major city complained to the police that it was not safe for them to walk in their neighborhood. The police didn't believe them but finally had plain-clothes officers walk there as decoys. The officers, mistaken for gays, were attacked by men with baseball bats. Twelve men were finally arrested for homophobic attacks in that one neighborhood. An article in our paper a few days ago told of a man asking where the nearest gay bar was; he said he wanted to shoot some queers. A few minutes later he did. Such things are happening everywhere in America, and gays and lesbians live in constant anxiety about these kinds of hate crimes."
"Homosexuals do not have the natural protection of the law that others have. There are nationwide laws against discrimination on the basis of race and national origin, but only one-fifth of our states have laws prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation--there is no federal law. The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld laws in two states making same-gender sex illegal. A Dallas judge gave a light sentence to a murderer explaining that the victim was only a homosexual. What encouragement is thus given to gay-bashers! The hatred gays and lesbians encounter, added to the psychological problems most face in accepting their homosexuality, make many of them live in an ever-present milieu that borders on trauma."
"What made me, a heterosexual, fall in love with a person of the opposite gender? I can't say--it is just some innate characteristic of my makeup. In the homosexual, that characteristic works differently for some yet unknown reason, and the falling-in-love process is directed at the same gender. But it is a true falling in love. It isn't a sexual thing for them any more that it is for heterosexuals."
"While some homosexuals are sexually lustful and promiscuous, the percentage may actually be lower than that of heterosexuals. The pornographic industry, estimated at up to one hundred billion dollars a year, the gentlemen's clubs, the brothels, internet pornography, etc. are all supported by heterosexual lust. That industry annually lures two thousand teenage girls into prostitution in the city of Dallas alone."
"If we look at a heterosexual man or woman and do not immediately think of sex, then when we look at a gay or a lesbian, we should not immediately think of sex. They are people like us with the same needs and concerns, problems and failures and successes and sorrows and joys that we have, plus lots of problems that we do not have. What is a homosexual act? Examples: a gay man walking his dog or a lesbian fixing her supper."
"Until the late nineteenth century, as already mentioned, the concept of homosexuality was totally unknown. No Bible writer knew of homosexuality, so no Bible writer could have said anything about it. When the Bible speaks of same-gender sex, it is always talking about heterosexuals who are given over to such lust that they commit lustful acts. There cannot be anything in the Bible that says anything about (unknown) homosexuality or homosexual people or acts by homosexuals."
"Heterosexual sex acts are also condemned by the Bible whenever they are lustful, but that doesn't mean all heterosexual sex acts are condemned. It is the lust that is condemned, not an act. If we recognize that opposite-gender sex can be either lustful and evil as in rape or be moral and beautiful as between loving spouses, we must recognize the possibility that same-gender sex can be moral and beautiful, as well as lustful and evil."
These are just some of the things in here. I understand it's a lot to read, but skim through it and look at some things, please. This world needs to change. Pass these things on to other people, too.
QUOTE(Paranoid Android @ Aug 14 2005, 08:58 PM)
Homosexual is a recent term to describe the sexual act of a man and man or a woman and woman. It's not in the Bible anymore than the term "gay" is in the Bible to mean homosexual either.
No man shall lie with another man as he does a woman - Fluffy posted the Leviticus passage. There are other's but I haven't got a Bible handy right now to search.
The Corinthians passage that TD posted - They will not inherit the Kingdom of God. To inherit the Kingdom of God is to enter heaven. None who do this will enter heaven, ie they did the wrong thing.
Although it is also prudent to note here that the passages are condemning the act of homosexuality, not the people themselves. God loves each and every person. Homosexuality is just another way that people can go against God.
Regards,
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No man shall lie with another man as he does a woman - Fluffy posted the Leviticus passage. There are other's but I haven't got a Bible handy right now to search.
The Corinthians passage that TD posted - They will not inherit the Kingdom of God. To inherit the Kingdom of God is to enter heaven. None who do this will enter heaven, ie they did the wrong thing.
Although it is also prudent to note here that the passages are condemning the act of homosexuality, not the people themselves. God loves each and every person. Homosexuality is just another way that people can go against God.
Regards,
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I just can't get over how some of you can make anything in the Bible mean whatever you want it to mean. You kind of left off the last of the quote: and both shall be put to death. Yeah, that is an act of love by God, for sure. He loves them to death.
Larry - to extend this reasoning further, there is one of the quotes in the old Testament where it is said to be a sin to wear clothes made of two kinds of material.
So every person who wears a poly/cotton blend should be put to death too
This is not the Spirituality vs Skepticism forum, so I refuse to argue further on this issue. If you so wish, post a thread in the appropriate section and I'll be more than happy to get the details. As it is, I'll just repeat that God loves all equally, He just does not like what we do (which includes hetero's as well as it does gay and lesbian......)
Regards,
So every person who wears a poly/cotton blend should be put to death too
This is not the Spirituality vs Skepticism forum, so I refuse to argue further on this issue. If you so wish, post a thread in the appropriate section and I'll be more than happy to get the details. As it is, I'll just repeat that God loves all equally, He just does not like what we do (which includes hetero's as well as it does gay and lesbian......)
Regards,
You really have to step back and think about what the Bible is saying and how it is so illogical.
If you believe in the Bible then you must believe that God created us just as we are. Well, funny thing, God created us to have sexual desire about the time we hit puberty. He also created people that have unusual sexual preferences as in liking the same gender. Then the Bible comes along and says sex is nasty and dirty and if you even have sexual thoughts you are comminting a sin. THis is obviously a contradicition to our God given, created bodies.
Ever wonder why sex is considered so dirty in the Bible and is of so much concern? How can sex be dirty? When two people have sex they become closer to each other, they pass the emotion of love toward one another, they enjoy something that is not causing harm to either of them. Therefore, the Bible is directly opposed to a human capability that is natural and promotes positive human emotions.
Don't take the Bible too seriously when in regard to sex. It was most likely put there by humans to further enhance control.
If you believe in the Bible then you must believe that God created us just as we are. Well, funny thing, God created us to have sexual desire about the time we hit puberty. He also created people that have unusual sexual preferences as in liking the same gender. Then the Bible comes along and says sex is nasty and dirty and if you even have sexual thoughts you are comminting a sin. THis is obviously a contradicition to our God given, created bodies.
Ever wonder why sex is considered so dirty in the Bible and is of so much concern? How can sex be dirty? When two people have sex they become closer to each other, they pass the emotion of love toward one another, they enjoy something that is not causing harm to either of them. Therefore, the Bible is directly opposed to a human capability that is natural and promotes positive human emotions.
Don't take the Bible too seriously when in regard to sex. It was most likely put there by humans to further enhance control.
And I'm sure every person who wishes to gratify their desires will be saying exactly the same thing Watzel.
In my opinion, sex was created by God for a specific purpose - for a man and a woman to marry and ultimately create another human life. I'm not saying sex is evil. Sex is a beautiful thing which we should enjoy. But there is a context. Sex outside of the paramaters God has set (marriage) is not in line with what God created it for. Pre-marital sex, adultery, homosexuality - all are contrary to God's purpose for sex.
To use an analogy - in winter it can be nice to put a fire in the fire place. It warms the house up, and I don't freeze. But if I put that fire in the middle of the living room then my house burns down with me and my family around it.
You see what I'm saying.
Regards,
In my opinion, sex was created by God for a specific purpose - for a man and a woman to marry and ultimately create another human life. I'm not saying sex is evil. Sex is a beautiful thing which we should enjoy. But there is a context. Sex outside of the paramaters God has set (marriage) is not in line with what God created it for. Pre-marital sex, adultery, homosexuality - all are contrary to God's purpose for sex.
To use an analogy - in winter it can be nice to put a fire in the fire place. It warms the house up, and I don't freeze. But if I put that fire in the middle of the living room then my house burns down with me and my family around it.
You see what I'm saying.
Regards,
why do you want to know anyway just out of curiousity? are you a lesbian and christian, is that why youre worried, well theres no need to be, we are who we are, why ,if there is a god, would he want us to be anything else than ourselves. if he did wed all be skizos.
QUOTE(Septimus @ Aug 14 2005, 11:27 PM)
And isn't it sexually immoral for the woman to be on top??? I don't see how any of these things are worthy of...er, ingeritance. wtf does that mean anyway O.o. Inherit the Kingdom of God? Heaven right?[/size]
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Uh oh.....I'm in trouble now! LOL!!
Actually, coming from a southern baptist background....my mother always told me that (in the context of sex in a marriage of course...) whatever you wanted to do is fine so long as both people are comfortable with it.
I have never, ever heard that it is immoral for the woman to be on top. Where did you hear that?
And why am I the only person to notice this? LOL!
Im not sure how they can do a study on Homosexuality, I still believe it's a preference, not something you are born with. Retardation is something that can be born with, but growing up who you are attracted too. I push that upon the environement on how you were rasied, who you interact with, how your parents were, and the like.
QUOTE(Septimus @ Aug 14 2005, 10:09 PM)
I have been killing myself looking for the part in the bible that says it is wrong for women to be with women. Lesbians. I've found the whole thing on unlawful sexual relations and still haven't seen anything saying being a lesbian is sin.
Am I just missing it???
I found the part where it says it's a sin to have sex with a girl when they're on their period and I found the part where it says it's a sin to have sex with animals but still nothing concerning women having sex with women.
Anybody know?
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Am I just missing it???
I found the part where it says it's a sin to have sex with a girl when they're on their period and I found the part where it says it's a sin to have sex with animals but still nothing concerning women having sex with women.
Anybody know?
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You really have to step back and think about what the Bible is saying and how it is so illogical.
If you believe in the Bible then you must believe that God created us just as we are. Well, funny thing, God created us to have sexual desire about the time we hit puberty. He also created people that have unusual sexual preferences as in liking the same gender. Then the Bible comes along and says sex is nasty and dirty and if you even have sexual thoughts you are comminting a sin. This is obviously a contradicition to our God given, created bodies.
Ever wonder why sex is considered so dirty in the Bible and is of so much concern? How can sex be dirty? When two people have sex they become closer to each other, they pass the emotion of love toward one another, they enjoy something that is not causing harm to either of them. Therefore, the Bible is directly opposed to a human capability that is natural and promotes positive human emotions.
Don't take the Bible too seriously when in regard to sex. It was most likely put there by humans to further enhance control.
QUOTE(Watzel @ Aug 15 2005, 06:13 PM)
QUOTE(Septimus @ Aug 14 2005, 10:09 PM)
I have been killing myself looking for the part in the bible that says it is wrong for women to be with women. Lesbians. I've found the whole thing on unlawful sexual relations and still haven't seen anything saying being a lesbian is sin.
Am I just missing it???
I found the part where it says it's a sin to have sex with a girl when they're on their period and I found the part where it says it's a sin to have sex with animals but still nothing concerning women having sex with women.
Anybody know?
[right][snapback]790653[/snapback][/right]
Am I just missing it???
I found the part where it says it's a sin to have sex with a girl when they're on their period and I found the part where it says it's a sin to have sex with animals but still nothing concerning women having sex with women.
Anybody know?
[right][snapback]790653[/snapback][/right]
You really have to step back and think about what the Bible is saying and how it is so illogical.
If you believe in the Bible then you must believe that God created us just as we are. Well, funny thing, God created us to have sexual desire about the time we hit puberty. He also created people that have unusual sexual preferences as in liking the same gender. Then the Bible comes along and says sex is nasty and dirty and if you even have sexual thoughts you are comminting a sin. This is obviously a contradicition to our God given, created bodies.
Ever wonder why sex is considered so dirty in the Bible and is of so much concern? How can sex be dirty? When two people have sex they become closer to each other, they pass the emotion of love toward one another, they enjoy something that is not causing harm to either of them. Therefore, the Bible is directly opposed to a human capability that is natural and promotes positive human emotions.
Don't take the Bible too seriously when in regard to sex. It was most likely put there by humans to further enhance control.
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God gave us all free will, but really, we never have free will, either we follow god, or the devil, there can be no other way. God set rules for us to follow, you follow them as best you can, but everyday I do beleive you do live in sin, if in fact you are homosexual.
I don't believe God is against sex at all, but he foresaw what would happen in todays future. You cannot say that more then 50% of media, music, movies and the such are aimed towards sex, or appearance. It's quite true we have taken sex, and turned it into a symbol, and made it unpure.
Sex is a beautiful thing, it creates life, and it should be the only way to create life. We abuse the gift for pleasure, not for it's soul purpose. God knew this would happen, mainly why he made all of his rules. If he didn't, you could believe how much more out of control it would be to this day, instead, we have the odd person that does think about what he's doing, and that enough helps.
The Bible, unlike other religious text, was not put together to enlighten but to control a group of people. The raising of Larzarus were struck from the book of Mark by Bishop Clement of Alexandria because it not only showed that the 'raising' was nothing more than a mystery school initiation but a sect known as Carpocratians were interpreting it as a homosexual relationship.
Now speeking from a local point of view on one end of the spectrum I know of the 'Lighthouse Baptist Church', a white supremesist church who runs ads in the local paper on the 'Sins of Fornication and Homosexuality' and on the other end the Quaker "Society of Friends"meeting who not too long ago preformed a lesbian marriage which myself and several other tribal members provided security for in case the local white supremesist got wind of it.
On the non-christian end of it the traditional members of my tribe and other Algonkian nations hold a dance for people who have had homosexual relationships with others and they are the ones that give the secret names for children and write the best dreamsongs and paint the best. We consider them sacred.
lapi'che ni'tis
QUOTE((31oha2a121) @ Aug 15 2005, 08:46 AM)
why do you want to know anyway just out of curiousity? are you a lesbian and christian, is that why youre worried, well theres no need to be, we are who we are, why ,if there is a god, would he want us to be anything else than ourselves. if he did wed all be skizos.
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I am. But I'm not Christian. I'm just tired of everyone who claims I am murdering my soul and am a sinner. I wanted to find a way to override them and I have. Sorry boys, but I couldn't find anything to save you guys from ridicule but as for the girls: the law says nothing about women engaging in same-gender sex. The term homosexual wasn't known during the time the bible was written. The word was added in there in a newer version.
The word "yadha" means "to know" and is used 943 times in the bible but is only used ten times to clearly mean "have sex". And even then, it defines heterosexual sex. "Shakhabh" is the word defining homosexual sex, and it's not in the bible.
So pretty much the only way I'd be sinning was if I had sex before marriage and considering we can't get married, that's not my fault. :]
QUOTE(Azalin @ Aug 15 2005, 09:44 AM)
Im not sure how they can do a study on Homosexuality, I still believe it's a preference, not something you are born with. Retardation is something that can be born with, but growing up who you are attracted too. I push that upon the environement on how you were rasied, who you interact with, how your parents were, and the like.
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Actually they're finding more and more evidence that people are born that way, just as a person is born using their left hand instead of their right.
When people ask me "what made you turn gay?" I just look at them and say, "Dunno, why are you straight?" One day I realized I loved my best friend more than just...well a friend. It just clicked. I can't explain why, but I definately know it wasn't from what my parents taught me, or what other people taught me.
After I realized it I told my sister who's 9 years older than me and lives on the other half of the country, and she said she was too. That leads me to believe it's in our blood. We were raised by different parents and never lived together but we are very much alike.
I agree that the way you're raised has a lot to do with the way you turn out, but genetics plays a vital role as well.
QUOTE(maryjo1975 @ Aug 15 2005, 08:53 AM)
QUOTE(Septimus @ Aug 14 2005, 11:27 PM)
And isn't it sexually immoral for the woman to be on top??? I don't see how any of these things are worthy of...er, ingeritance. wtf does that mean anyway O.o. Inherit the Kingdom of God? Heaven right?[/size]
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Uh oh.....I'm in trouble now! LOL!!
Actually, coming from a southern baptist background....my mother always told me that (in the context of sex in a marriage of course...) whatever you wanted to do is fine so long as both people are comfortable with it.
I have never, ever heard that it is immoral for the woman to be on top. Where did you hear that?
And why am I the only person to notice this? LOL!
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You can thank St. Augustine, Bishop of Hippo (354-430 AD) for all this. He is considered second only to St. Paul in influencing the Christian church. His belief was that sex should be only for procreation, and that the "missionary position" (as it is called today) was the only non sinful way to do so. FYI, he is the church leader who originated the concept of original sin. It is also said of him that he would pray, “Make me chaste, but not yet.” in his younger days.
QUOTE(Septimus @ Aug 15 2005, 05:53 PM)
QUOTE(Azalin @ Aug 15 2005, 09:44 AM)
Im not sure how they can do a study on Homosexuality, I still believe it's a preference, not something you are born with. Retardation is something that can be born with, but growing up who you are attracted too. I push that upon the environement on how you were rasied, who you interact with, how your parents were, and the like.
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Actually they're finding more and more evidence that people are born that way, just as a person is born using their left hand instead of their right.
When people ask me "what made you turn gay?" I just look at them and say, "Dunno, why are you straight?" One day I realized I loved my best friend more than just...well a friend. It just clicked. I can't explain why, but I definately know it wasn't from what my parents taught me, or what other people taught me.
After I realized it I told my sister who's 9 years older than me and lives on the other half of the country, and she said she was too. That leads me to believe it's in our blood. We were raised by different parents and never lived together but we are very much alike.
I agree that the way you're raised has a lot to do with the way you turn out, but genetics plays a vital role as well.
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Please dont let anyone, especially people chained to their religion dictate to you how you should feel. If you love this person what can be wrong with that?! I grew up in southern baptist churches. So you KNOW we were always told that you cant be gay and be a christian. But when a very close friend of mine decided he was gay and he couldnt deny it anymore (even though he was married and in the process of adopting a child.) it made a lot of us re-think what we believe.
I KNOW this guy. I know what he believes, what he has been taught. And I dont for a second believe that just because he is gay negates all that. He was one of the sweetest christian men I have ever met. I dont believe, even for a second, that he is going to hell because he finally gave in to the feelings he had for so many years.
Be who you are. Forget what anyone else thinks about it. If you want to go to church...go to church. If you want to worship God...worship God. You dont need to worry about anyone else because when it comes down to it, no one is going to be there to answer for you.
Hi, You were looking for bible passages in regards to lesbians, I didn't see anyone post this, if they did I must have overlooked it. Here you go:
Romans1:26-27(CEV)
God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way,and they did things with each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men.They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.
Romans1:26-27(CEV)
God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way,and they did things with each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men.They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.
QUOTE(Adonaijah @ Aug 16 2005, 06:37 AM)
Hi, You were looking for bible passages in regards to lesbians, I didn't see anyone post this, if they did I must have overlooked it. Here you go:
Romans1:26-27(CEV)
God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way,and they did things with each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men.They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.
[right][snapback]792620[/snapback][/right]
Romans1:26-27(CEV)
God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way,and they did things with each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men.They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.
[right][snapback]792620[/snapback][/right]
I just don't understand people that are homosexual, and why they would want to be christian. You will not change gods mind, and the fact that he will always love you is great, but he will always be ashamed.
It would be like you making something for one purpose, but then your creation does something completely opposite. A very bad analogy, but it would be like restoring a classic automobile, and then selling it to someone that just loves that type of car, and would honor and hold up some of your best work. The next day you find out, he's entered the vehicle you put all your work creating, into a destruction derby. Now your mad. What you loved and spent so much time creating is being taken away from you. It was never meant for this, but you have no control, cause the owner now decides whatever he wants to do with it. You still love the car, but you are angered at the outcome of the decesion.
As some here have revealed, if you believe that everyone that has casual sex is going to hell then you will surely find many of the Biblical figures there.
Casual sex is wrong only if you think it is wrong. If you look at it another way, it is pure and wholesome for humans and given for us to enjoy whenever we want it. Only when you imagine it to be bad does it become bad in your mind. For example, people used to think it was sinful for a woman to show her ankles. You still think anyone believes that. Maybe in the Muslim countries. Not good ol' Christian USA.
And yes being non heterosexual is biological not environmental. If you are not Gay you cannot say that you know how it feels to be Gay. Homosexuals are certain that it is something they are born with. Imagine someone telling you that you are only heterosexual because of your environment. It is more than that if you really try to explain why you are heterosexual. And why would someone grow up to be homosexual in a family of heterosexuals. You can't argue environment there.
So back to the original question, NO!!! Homosexuality is not wrong. What is wrong is believing in a book written by lunatics.
Casual sex is wrong only if you think it is wrong. If you look at it another way, it is pure and wholesome for humans and given for us to enjoy whenever we want it. Only when you imagine it to be bad does it become bad in your mind. For example, people used to think it was sinful for a woman to show her ankles. You still think anyone believes that. Maybe in the Muslim countries. Not good ol' Christian USA.
And yes being non heterosexual is biological not environmental. If you are not Gay you cannot say that you know how it feels to be Gay. Homosexuals are certain that it is something they are born with. Imagine someone telling you that you are only heterosexual because of your environment. It is more than that if you really try to explain why you are heterosexual. And why would someone grow up to be homosexual in a family of heterosexuals. You can't argue environment there.
So back to the original question, NO!!! Homosexuality is not wrong. What is wrong is believing in a book written by lunatics.
QUOTE(joc @ Aug 14 2005, 07:36 PM)
INTERESTING
I have nothing at all personally against homosexuals. I'm sure they re just like everyone else except their sexual preference. *Please, no one think this is an attack on homosexuals.* By reading what I have here, all Bible based (not worldy knowledge) on the Bible, I hope I can clear up some issues. If I have misquoted something, please correct me...
.
.
The Bible says the homosexuality is a filthy act, and in the Herbrew scriptures, it brought death to the trangressors of that Law. In the New Testament, nothing really changed in God's guildines for a morally upright life. The Bible is not oblivious to homosexual practices. Such things are specifically referred to several times in the Scriptures. For instance, we read at Romans 1:26, 27, according to The New Testament in Modern English by J. B. Phillips:
***“God therefore handed them over to disgraceful passions. Their women exchanged the normal practices of sexual intercourse for something which is abnormal and unnatural. Similarly the men, turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another.”***
Theres really no way to reason on these guildlines and find a way for homosexuality to be accepted. Its either you live as God wishes, or, you don't. For a Christian to get violent towards a homosexual, that is wrong too. But for a professed Christian, homosexuality is condemed as a "unatural act," contray to what God created man and woman for.
.
.
Latley, its quite easy for people to "rationalize" the Bible and make up excuses for their sins or lust or whatever they want to do. Self control is a very important part of being a Christian. If someone feels they are born attracted to the same sex, nothing says that is a sin, accoridng to the Bible. But once you engage in a sexual act with that person, then you have committed a sin. Same with sex before marraige. You may have urges for sex and want to do it, but until you actually go through with it, then, technically, you have not done anything against Gods guidlines. Yes he created us with these urges, even you are attracted to the same sex, but, he allows us the choice to control these urges, and live a life in harmony to the Bible, or give in to these urges, and live a life contrary to what he wants.
.
.
Remember, we all are God's children. And as a child, we are held accountable for our actions in life. The Bible is provided not a a rulebook, but a guidebook. We will all fall short of his standards. Thankfully, we have the way to forgivness through his Son. However, we are all accountable for our actions, and many of these actions are shown to be good or bad in the Bible. Homosexuals and heterosexuals both, will one day answer for our lifes actions.
.
.
The Bible says the homosexuality is a filthy act, and in the Herbrew scriptures, it brought death to the trangressors of that Law. In the New Testament, nothing really changed in God's guildines for a morally upright life. The Bible is not oblivious to homosexual practices. Such things are specifically referred to several times in the Scriptures. For instance, we read at Romans 1:26, 27, according to The New Testament in Modern English by J. B. Phillips:
***“God therefore handed them over to disgraceful passions. Their women exchanged the normal practices of sexual intercourse for something which is abnormal and unnatural. Similarly the men, turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another.”***
Theres really no way to reason on these guildlines and find a way for homosexuality to be accepted. Its either you live as God wishes, or, you don't. For a Christian to get violent towards a homosexual, that is wrong too. But for a professed Christian, homosexuality is condemed as a "unatural act," contray to what God created man and woman for.
.
.
Latley, its quite easy for people to "rationalize" the Bible and make up excuses for their sins or lust or whatever they want to do. Self control is a very important part of being a Christian. If someone feels they are born attracted to the same sex, nothing says that is a sin, accoridng to the Bible. But once you engage in a sexual act with that person, then you have committed a sin. Same with sex before marraige. You may have urges for sex and want to do it, but until you actually go through with it, then, technically, you have not done anything against Gods guidlines. Yes he created us with these urges, even you are attracted to the same sex, but, he allows us the choice to control these urges, and live a life in harmony to the Bible, or give in to these urges, and live a life contrary to what he wants.
.
.
Remember, we all are God's children. And as a child, we are held accountable for our actions in life. The Bible is provided not a a rulebook, but a guidebook. We will all fall short of his standards. Thankfully, we have the way to forgivness through his Son. However, we are all accountable for our actions, and many of these actions are shown to be good or bad in the Bible. Homosexuals and heterosexuals both, will one day answer for our lifes actions.
QUOTE
You can thank St. Augustine, Bishop of Hippo (354-430 AD) for all this. He is considered second only to St. Paul in influencing the Christian church. His belief was that sex should be only for procreation, and that the "missionary position" (as it is called today) was the only non sinful way to do so. FYI, he is the church leader who originated the concept of original sin. It is also said of him that he would pray, “Make me chaste, but not yet.” in his younger days.
Well now I know who to blame it on XD. Anyway they made a law in Texas based off of that idea that the missionary position was the only right way to have sex. It used to be illegal for the girl to be on top, among other things. I'm pretty sure those laws have been overruled now.
QUOTE(Power2the1 @ Aug 16 2005, 04:14 PM)
I have nothing at all personally against homosexuals. I'm sure they re just like everyone else except their sexual preference. *Please, no one think this is an attack on homosexuals.* By reading what I have here, all Bible based (not worldy knowledge) on the Bible, I hope I can clear up some issues. If I have misquoted something, please correct me...
.
.
The Bible says the homosexuality is a filthy act, and in the Herbrew scriptures, it brought death to the trangressors of that Law. In the New Testament, nothing really changed in God's guildines for a morally upright life. The Bible is not oblivious to homosexual practices. Such things are specifically referred to several times in the Scriptures. For instance, we read at Romans 1:26, 27, according to The New Testament in Modern English by J. B. Phillips:
***“God therefore handed them over to disgraceful passions. Their women exchanged the normal practices of sexual intercourse for something which is abnormal and unnatural. Similarly the men, turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another.”***
Theres really no way to reason on these guildlines and find a way for homosexuality to be accepted. Its either you live as God wishes, or, you don't. For a Christian to get violent towards a homosexual, that is wrong too. But for a professed Christian, homosexuality is condemed as a "unatural act," contray to what God created man and woman for.
.
.
Latley, its quite easy for people to "rationalize" the Bible and make up excuses for their sins or lust or whatever they want to do. Self control is a very important part of being a Christian. If someone feels they are born attracted to the same sex, nothing says that is a sin, accoridng to the Bible. But once you engage in a sexual act with that person, then you have committed a sin. Same with sex before marraige. You may have urges for sex and want to do it, but until you actually go through with it, then, technically, you have not done anything against Gods guidlines. Yes he created us with these urges, even you are attracted to the same sex, but, he allows us the choice to control these urges, and live a life in harmony to the Bible, or give in to these urges, and live a life contrary to what he wants.
.
.
Remember, we all are God's children. And as a child, we are held accountable for our actions in life. The Bible is provided not a a rulebook, but a guidebook. We will all fall short of his standards. Thankfully, we have the way to forgivness through his Son. However, we are all accountable for our actions, and many of these actions are shown to be good or bad in the Bible. Homosexuals and heterosexuals both, will one day answer for our lifes actions.
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.
.
The Bible says the homosexuality is a filthy act, and in the Herbrew scriptures, it brought death to the trangressors of that Law. In the New Testament, nothing really changed in God's guildines for a morally upright life. The Bible is not oblivious to homosexual practices. Such things are specifically referred to several times in the Scriptures. For instance, we read at Romans 1:26, 27, according to The New Testament in Modern English by J. B. Phillips:
***“God therefore handed them over to disgraceful passions. Their women exchanged the normal practices of sexual intercourse for something which is abnormal and unnatural. Similarly the men, turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another.”***
Theres really no way to reason on these guildlines and find a way for homosexuality to be accepted. Its either you live as God wishes, or, you don't. For a Christian to get violent towards a homosexual, that is wrong too. But for a professed Christian, homosexuality is condemed as a "unatural act," contray to what God created man and woman for.
.
.
Latley, its quite easy for people to "rationalize" the Bible and make up excuses for their sins or lust or whatever they want to do. Self control is a very important part of being a Christian. If someone feels they are born attracted to the same sex, nothing says that is a sin, accoridng to the Bible. But once you engage in a sexual act with that person, then you have committed a sin. Same with sex before marraige. You may have urges for sex and want to do it, but until you actually go through with it, then, technically, you have not done anything against Gods guidlines. Yes he created us with these urges, even you are attracted to the same sex, but, he allows us the choice to control these urges, and live a life in harmony to the Bible, or give in to these urges, and live a life contrary to what he wants.
.
.
Remember, we all are God's children. And as a child, we are held accountable for our actions in life. The Bible is provided not a a rulebook, but a guidebook. We will all fall short of his standards. Thankfully, we have the way to forgivness through his Son. However, we are all accountable for our actions, and many of these actions are shown to be good or bad in the Bible. Homosexuals and heterosexuals both, will one day answer for our lifes actions.
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Well today we are living in a world (at least most of this world) that is fair where all people are equal. Obviously, if we lived by those rules, homosexuals aren't allowed to enjoy sex, but heterosexuals are??? I don't think so.
Men are allowed to go to school but women aren't? That's changed.
Whites and whites are allowed to get married but blacks and whites aren't? That's changed.
The world is flat! No it isn't. The earth's the center of the universe!! Tis not.
The Bible also states that light was made after god had cultivated the planet but obviously the sun had to have been here first. We have proven so many parts of the bible wrong yet people are still unwilling to accept that homosexuality is nat-u-ral.
You see homosexuality in animals, too. It's not just us humans "purposefully sinning against god to fulfill our desires". It's not just a desire. It's symbolic of coming together, symbolic of love. Most heterosexuals will say the same thing. If they truly love their partner they share that moment as a symbol of their love, to satisfy each other. Especiallyin a homosexual relationship, as one parter is pleasing the other simply to please them, not themselves!
Things change. This is one of those things that NEEDS to be changed, now. If not now, very soon.
QUOTE(TRuth @ Aug 16 2005, 11:51 AM)
QUOTE(joc @ Aug 14 2005, 07:36 PM)
INTERESTING
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Tisn't it? :]
QUOTE(Adonaijah @ Aug 15 2005, 11:37 PM)
Hi, You were looking for bible passages in regards to lesbians, I didn't see anyone post this, if they did I must have overlooked it. Here you go:
Romans1:26-27(CEV)
God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way,and they did things with each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men.They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.
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Romans1:26-27(CEV)
God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way,and they did things with each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men.They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.
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Thanks for the post. I haven't read that one. By the way, nice avatar :]
QUOTE(Azalin @ Aug 16 2005, 09:40 AM)
QUOTE(Adonaijah @ Aug 16 2005, 06:37 AM)
Hi, You were looking for bible passages in regards to lesbians, I didn't see anyone post this, if they did I must have overlooked it. Here you go:
Romans1:26-27(CEV)
God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way,and they did things with each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men.They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.
[right][snapback]792620[/snapback][/right]
Romans1:26-27(CEV)
God let them follow their own evil desires. Women no longer wanted to have sex in a natural way,and they did things with each other that were not natural. Men behaved in the same way. They stopped wanting to have sex with women and had strong desires for sex with other men.They did shameful things with each other, and what has happened to them is punishment for their foolish deeds.
[right][snapback]792620[/snapback][/right]
I just don't understand people that are homosexual, and why they would want to be christian. You will not change gods mind, and the fact that he will always love you is great, but he will always be ashamed.
It would be like you making something for one purpose, but then your creation does something completely opposite. A very bad analogy, but it would be like restoring a classic automobile, and then selling it to someone that just loves that type of car, and would honor and hold up some of your best work. The next day you find out, he's entered the vehicle you put all your work creating, into a destruction derby. Now your mad. What you loved and spent so much time creating is being taken away from you. It was never meant for this, but you have no control, cause the owner now decides whatever he wants to do with it. You still love the car, but you are angered at the outcome of the decesion.
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Lol...I don't want to be a Christian and doubt I ever will. Too many flaws in teh Bible, which seems to be where they draw their whole religion from. I just wanted to find these passages and see it for myself.
QUOTE(Watzel @ Aug 16 2005, 11:17 AM)
As some here have revealed, if you believe that everyone that has casual sex is going to hell then you will surely find many of the Biblical figures there.
Casual sex is wrong only if you think it is wrong. If you look at it another way, it is pure and wholesome for humans and given for us to enjoy whenever we want it. Only when you imagine it to be bad does it become bad in your mind. For example, people used to think it was sinful for a woman to show her ankles. You still think anyone believes that. Maybe in the Muslim countries. Not good ol' Christian USA.
And yes being non heterosexual is biological not environmental. If you are not Gay you cannot say that you know how it feels to be Gay. Homosexuals are certain that it is something they are born with. Imagine someone telling you that you are only heterosexual because of your environment. It is more than that if you really try to explain why you are heterosexual. And why would someone grow up to be homosexual in a family of heterosexuals. You can't argue environment there.
So back to the original question, NO!!! Homosexuality is not wrong. What is wrong is believing in a book written by lunatics.
[right][snapback]793605[/snapback][/right]
Casual sex is wrong only if you think it is wrong. If you look at it another way, it is pure and wholesome for humans and given for us to enjoy whenever we want it. Only when you imagine it to be bad does it become bad in your mind. For example, people used to think it was sinful for a woman to show her ankles. You still think anyone believes that. Maybe in the Muslim countries. Not good ol' Christian USA.
And yes being non heterosexual is biological not environmental. If you are not Gay you cannot say that you know how it feels to be Gay. Homosexuals are certain that it is something they are born with. Imagine someone telling you that you are only heterosexual because of your environment. It is more than that if you really try to explain why you are heterosexual. And why would someone grow up to be homosexual in a family of heterosexuals. You can't argue environment there.
So back to the original question, NO!!! Homosexuality is not wrong. What is wrong is believing in a book written by lunatics.
[right][snapback]793605[/snapback][/right]
Yar. *totally agrees*
QUOTE(Septimus @ Aug 16 2005, 10:36 PM)
QUOTE(Power2the1 @ Aug 16 2005, 04:14 PM)
I have nothing at all personally against homosexuals. I'm sure they re just like everyone else except their sexual preference. *Please, no one think this is an attack on homosexuals.* By reading what I have here, all Bible based (not worldy knowledge) on the Bible, I hope I can clear up some issues. If I have misquoted something, please correct me...
.
.
The Bible says the homosexuality is a filthy act, and in the Herbrew scriptures, it brought death to the trangressors of that Law. In the New Testament, nothing really changed in God's guildines for a morally upright life. The Bible is not oblivious to homosexual practices. Such things are specifically referred to several times in the Scriptures. For instance, we read at Romans 1:26, 27, according to The New Testament in Modern English by J. B. Phillips:
***“God therefore handed them over to disgraceful passions. Their women exchanged the normal practices of sexual intercourse for something which is abnormal and unnatural. Similarly the men, turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another.”***
Theres really no way to reason on these guildlines and find a way for homosexuality to be accepted. Its either you live as God wishes, or, you don't. For a Christian to get violent towards a homosexual, that is wrong too. But for a professed Christian, homosexuality is condemed as a "unatural act," contray to what God created man and woman for.
.
.
Latley, its quite easy for people to "rationalize" the Bible and make up excuses for their sins or lust or whatever they want to do. Self control is a very important part of being a Christian. If someone feels they are born attracted to the same sex, nothing says that is a sin, accoridng to the Bible. But once you engage in a sexual act with that person, then you have committed a sin. Same with sex before marraige. You may have urges for sex and want to do it, but until you actually go through with it, then, technically, you have not done anything against Gods guidlines. Yes he created us with these urges, even you are attracted to the same sex, but, he allows us the choice to control these urges, and live a life in harmony to the Bible, or give in to these urges, and live a life contrary to what he wants.
.
.
Remember, we all are God's children. And as a child, we are held accountable for our actions in life. The Bible is provided not a a rulebook, but a guidebook. We will all fall short of his standards. Thankfully, we have the way to forgivness through his Son. However, we are all accountable for our actions, and many of these actions are shown to be good or bad in the Bible. Homosexuals and heterosexuals both, will one day answer for our lifes actions.
[right][snapback]794143[/snapback][/right]
.
.
The Bible says the homosexuality is a filthy act, and in the Herbrew scriptures, it brought death to the trangressors of that Law. In the New Testament, nothing really changed in God's guildines for a morally upright life. The Bible is not oblivious to homosexual practices. Such things are specifically referred to several times in the Scriptures. For instance, we read at Romans 1:26, 27, according to The New Testament in Modern English by J. B. Phillips:
***“God therefore handed them over to disgraceful passions. Their women exchanged the normal practices of sexual intercourse for something which is abnormal and unnatural. Similarly the men, turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another.”***
Theres really no way to reason on these guildlines and find a way for homosexuality to be accepted. Its either you live as God wishes, or, you don't. For a Christian to get violent towards a homosexual, that is wrong too. But for a professed Christian, homosexuality is condemed as a "unatural act," contray to what God created man and woman for.
.
.
Latley, its quite easy for people to "rationalize" the Bible and make up excuses for their sins or lust or whatever they want to do. Self control is a very important part of being a Christian. If someone feels they are born attracted to the same sex, nothing says that is a sin, accoridng to the Bible. But once you engage in a sexual act with that person, then you have committed a sin. Same with sex before marraige. You may have urges for sex and want to do it, but until you actually go through with it, then, technically, you have not done anything against Gods guidlines. Yes he created us with these urges, even you are attracted to the same sex, but, he allows us the choice to control these urges, and live a life in harmony to the Bible, or give in to these urges, and live a life contrary to what he wants.
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Remember, we all are God's children. And as a child, we are held accountable for our actions in life. The Bible is provided not a a rulebook, but a guidebook. We will all fall short of his standards. Thankfully, we have the way to forgivness through his Son. However, we are all accountable for our actions, and many of these actions are shown to be good or bad in the Bible. Homosexuals and heterosexuals both, will one day answer for our lifes actions.
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Well today we are living in a world (at least most of this world) that is fair where all people are equal. Obviously, if we lived by those rules, homosexuals aren't allowed to enjoy sex, but heterosexuals are??? I don't think so.
Men are allowed to go to school but women aren't? That's changed.
Whites and whites are allowed to get married but blacks and whites aren't? That's changed.
The world is flat! No it isn't. The earth's the center of the universe!! Tis not.
The Bible also states that light was made after god had cultivated the planet but obviously the sun had to have been here first. We have proven so many parts of the bible wrong yet people are still unwilling to accept that homosexuality is nat-u-ral.
You see homosexuality in animals, too. It's not just us humans "purposefully sinning against god to fulfill our desires". It's not just a desire. It's symbolic of coming together, symbolic of love. Most heterosexuals will say the same thing. If they truly love their partner they share that moment as a symbol of their love, to satisfy each other. Especiallyin a homosexual relationship, as one parter is pleasing the other simply to please them, not themselves!
Things change. This is one of those things that NEEDS to be changed, now. If not now, very soon.
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Ok, heres where it get a bit tricky. Everything you mentioned, like women going to school, blacks with whites, etc...the Bible doesn't say its wrong for a black woman to be with a white guy or anything. It never says that women cannot go to school.
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Again, many people, mistakenly, contrast rules outside the Bible and rationalize them with examples in the Bible. The Bible even mentions the earth as being a sphere/circle even, thousands of years before the first space flights and stuff.
“[God] is stretching out the north over the empty place, hanging the earth upon nothing.” (Job 26:7) Compare this with Isaiah’s statement, when he says: “There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth.” (Isaiah 40:22) The picture conveyed of a round earth ‘hanging upon nothing’ in “the empty place” reminds us strongly of the photographs taken by astronauts of the sphere of the earth floating in empty space.
The Bible mentions at Genesis 1:3 that light was made on the first day (not a literal 24 hour period). Not until "day" 5 was there mention of any life, plant, animal, or otherwise.
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The homosexuality in animals, I am not sure about, but, animals are not bound by The Bibles guidlines though. They cannot read it for one. Animals take more than one mate, one male Lion "fornicates" with many females in his tribe. No way any Christian would call that a sin, becasue that is what is natural to animals. Animals have no faith, religion, cannot rationalize nor reason, and are not calling themselves Christian, so what animals do cannot apply to us humans.
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Again, theres so much that people do not want to follow in the Bible, so, they rationalize a scenario, any scenario, that somehow will allow them to go through with what they want to do. Theres nothing wrong with sex according to the Bible if someone is married. If someone wants to love another, thats fine too. What better way to show this devotion, love, and passion to the other person by marriage? I have no idea why some folks think anything but missionary is wrong though. The Bible says, however, that fornication is a sin against God. Adultery is a sin against God. Hetero or homo, its not different rules for one, and different for the other.
I was just listing some examples of things that people were sooo against back in the day and that are now perfectly normal.
I like all the points you made, especially with the animals.
The thing is I see us as a form of animal as well. Different, but still animals. I like to compare us with animals a lot because a lot of the time we relate. Most of the time, if not all of the time.
Anyway. I'm so tired of the bible right now. Whether influenced by god or not, it was still written by man and humans do not know all. They take sides.
Off topic- I saw pictures of homophobes holding up signs in san fran that read "god hates fags" or "god hates you" and it's people like that- people who HATE, that make me mad. I just wanna walk up to them and spray paint the "fag" or "you" out of their sign and leave it with what they're really telling us by holding up those signs.
I like all the points you made, especially with the animals.
The thing is I see us as a form of animal as well. Different, but still animals. I like to compare us with animals a lot because a lot of the time we relate. Most of the time, if not all of the time.
Anyway. I'm so tired of the bible right now. Whether influenced by god or not, it was still written by man and humans do not know all. They take sides.
Off topic- I saw pictures of homophobes holding up signs in san fran that read "god hates fags" or "god hates you" and it's people like that- people who HATE, that make me mad. I just wanna walk up to them and spray paint the "fag" or "you" out of their sign and leave it with what they're really telling us by holding up those signs.
To answer the original poster, I've said this before, not entirely sure wy it has been brought up again, there is NO reference to female homosexuality in the Bible. Even the Judaic community knows that. Even the supposed male reference is for the act alone (sodomy, which heterosexuals were and apparently still are conducting) not the relationship.
And again, for the record, no original text uses th word 'homosexuality' to begin with. Any Bible which now states that word has changed it (amongst other things, like leaving entire books out, cutting parts out of texts, translation, actual chaning of words, etc) to suit themselves.
And again, for the record, no original text uses th word 'homosexuality' to begin with. Any Bible which now states that word has changed it (amongst other things, like leaving entire books out, cutting parts out of texts, translation, actual chaning of words, etc) to suit themselves.
QUOTE(Ashley-Star*Child @ Aug 17 2005, 06:41 PM)
To answer the original poster, I've said this before, not entirely sure wy it has been brought up again, there is NO reference to female homosexuality in the Bible. Even the Judaic community knows that. Even the supposed male reference is for the act alone (sodomy, which heterosexuals were and apparently still are conducting) not the relationship.
And again, for the record, no original text uses th word 'homosexuality' to begin with. Any Bible which now states that word has changed it (amongst other things, like leaving entire books out, cutting parts out of texts, translation, actual chaning of words, etc) to suit themselves.
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And again, for the record, no original text uses th word 'homosexuality' to begin with. Any Bible which now states that word has changed it (amongst other things, like leaving entire books out, cutting parts out of texts, translation, actual chaning of words, etc) to suit themselves.
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Yeah that's what I thought too, when I actually went through looking for the text that said anything, I found nothing.
QUOTE(Ashley-Star*Child @ Aug 17 2005, 09:41 PM)
To answer the original poster, I've said this before, not entirely sure wy it has been brought up again, there is NO reference to female homosexuality in the Bible. Even the Judaic community knows that. Even the supposed male reference is for the act alone (sodomy, which heterosexuals were and apparently still are conducting) not the relationship.
And again, for the record, no original text uses th word 'homosexuality' to begin with. Any Bible which now states that word has changed it (amongst other things, like leaving entire books out, cutting parts out of texts, translation, actual chaning of words, etc) to suit themselves.
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And again, for the record, no original text uses th word 'homosexuality' to begin with. Any Bible which now states that word has changed it (amongst other things, like leaving entire books out, cutting parts out of texts, translation, actual chaning of words, etc) to suit themselves.
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Apprently the Judaic community know little if they missed this passage of the New Testament. You missed out on the New Testament, too, it seems. I will repost a bit of a previous post I made, which, leaves no doubt as to what its saying. Yes, homosexuality was not a word 2000 years ago.
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***But, the acts of homosexuality still went on, were still the same, regardless of what word(s) were used or not used for it.***
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Romans 1:26, 27, according to The New Testament in Modern English by J. B. Phillips:
***“God therefore handed them over to disgraceful passions. Their *women* exchanged the normal practices of sexual intercourse for something which is abnormal and unnatural. Similarly the *men,* turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another.”***
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How can someone, religious or otherwise, Christian or otherwise, say that that doesn't refer specifically to the acts of homosexuality of a man or woman?
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Its like saying that becasue the Old Testament refered to a mans act, then its ok for a woman? That above verse makes it pretty clear folks that it applies to men adn women. I do not need other sources than the Bible to discuss this issue, I wish everyone else would do the same, considering that a Biblical commandment is at the crux of the issue here.
QUOTE(Power2the1 @ Aug 18 2005, 05:12 PM)
QUOTE(Ashley-Star*Child @ Aug 17 2005, 09:41 PM)
To answer the original poster, I've said this before, not entirely sure wy it has been brought up again, there is NO reference to female homosexuality in the Bible. Even the Judaic community knows that. Even the supposed male reference is for the act alone (sodomy, which heterosexuals were and apparently still are conducting) not the relationship.
And again, for the record, no original text uses th word 'homosexuality' to begin with. Any Bible which now states that word has changed it (amongst other things, like leaving entire books out, cutting parts out of texts, translation, actual chaning of words, etc) to suit themselves.
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And again, for the record, no original text uses th word 'homosexuality' to begin with. Any Bible which now states that word has changed it (amongst other things, like leaving entire books out, cutting parts out of texts, translation, actual chaning of words, etc) to suit themselves.
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Apprently the Judaic community know little if they missed this passage of the New Testament. You missed out on the New Testament, too, it seems. I will repost a bit of a previous post I made, which, leaves no doubt as to what its saying. Yes, homosexuality was not a word 2000 years ago.
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***But, the acts of homosexuality still went on, were still the same, regardless of what word(s) were used or not used for it.***
.
.
Romans 1:26, 27, according to The New Testament in Modern English by J. B. Phillips:
***“God therefore handed them over to disgraceful passions. Their *women* exchanged the normal practices of sexual intercourse for something which is abnormal and unnatural. Similarly the *men,* turning from natural intercourse with women, were swept into lustful passions for one another.”***
.
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How can someone, religious or otherwise, Christian or otherwise, say that that doesn't refer specifically to the acts of homosexuality of a man or woman?
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Its like saying that becasue the Old Testament refered to a mans act, then its ok for a woman? That above verse makes it pretty clear folks that it applies to men adn women. I do not need other sources than the Bible to discuss this issue, I wish everyone else would do the same, considering that a Biblical commandment is at the crux of the issue here.
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Well the difference is, in that Romans excerpt you posted it's not a law stating it's wrong it's just commenting on what was going on. God isn't specifically saying "DO. NOT. DO. THIS."
What I was looking for was a straightforward thing.
And the main reason they're saying it's wrong is because of the whole sodomization thing which naturally girls don't do. Well, I guess some could. Then again so could straight couples. But it's mostly a homosexual male act.
Since your not Christian why does it matter what we Christians think. If you were Christian than thats a different story.
QUOTE(DropCat @ Aug 19 2005, 08:31 AM)
Since your not Christian why does it matter what we Christians think. If you were Christian than thats a different story.
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The question wasn't what Christians think. It was whether or not it is actually in the 'Bible'. Many Christians are outspoken to homosexuals who are open about their sexuality when they should keep their opinions to themselves. As I said it a previous post a local Baptist church near me runs ads in the local news rag about the sins of homosexuality when they should keep their opinions to themselves.
lapi'che ni'tis
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