Recently, in the local newspaper, I came across an article on the marketing of churches. It seems that many churches are now hiring pastors with a degree in marketing, tapping membership for marketing expertise, or hiring outside resources to help with the church’s marketing strategy. This brings a couple of thoughts to mind, the first is that the dwindling “faithful” seems to have impacted the amount of money coming into the churches to such an extent that now they have to market their religion and their church in hopes of attracting new “faithful” from among the unwashed heathen masses. The second thought is, since the churches are now treating their religion as a marketable product (similar to Tide or Ford), should they be required to meet all the requirements that “true” products must meet? If Tide claims that their soap whitens and freshens laundry better than Cheer, they have to prove it or (1) face lawsuits from Cheer (2) face legal action from the government. If Ford or Colgate makes claims for their products, such as 32 MPG for the Explorer or extra white teeth with Colgate’s Whitening Gel, they must show proof of this upon demand or face action from the government and consumer advocacy groups. Should the churches that use marketing strategy have to meet these rigid requirements? Must they have to prove that their God is the true God or that Jesus is truly the Christ, that there is a heaven and a hell? What is your take on this?

I would think that it depends on how they are marketing it right? I think it's absurd that they are doing it at all and it would turn me off in the first place. I hear ads of the radio all the time for churches I've seen billboards and tv ads as well.....the whole thing is insane most people have some sense of what big business is and I would say that if you don't like normal ones this one is worse because they try and control your entire life....do this don't to that give me your money!!!!

Maybe I need to start a church

I had to chuckle on this and the thought of "only in the name of religion" came to mind. With the membership down they have to resort to what amounts to selling religion.


A good way to become a millionaire! Start a religion or a church.

I would have to disagree with churches that try and "Market" themselves. i dont think Jesus wanted or needed a sales pitch. I dont think there is anyhting wrong with letting people know what a church is about, or what they believe and what services they offer. But to go as far as hiring pastors or people with marketing degrees, with a purpose to Market a church, i think thats a lil to far. Nothing wrong with being creative, but marketing . As able to prove its product tahts pretty much impossiable. I consider myself a strong Christian and i have faith in Jesus, but i know Faith is the evidence of things unseen. So if they did market, they would have no secular or scientific proof that they are right, but that is the point of faith.

As I have always maintained, if faith is necessary for belief in a particular religion, then the odds of that religion being a total fake is 99.99999999999999999999%! Faith has no place in something so important that it might impact your eternity, too often faith is misplace and misguided! Think about it, the Taoists might be right and Christians wrong!

lol, ill take that chance

Business is business whether you are a corporation, a mom & pop shop or a religion. Marketing is what I do and I say as long as they don't spend my money doing it then all's fair in love, war & marketing. Although I would love to hear what the christian right would say if one of the satanists groups put up a billboard inviting people to join them. All's fair remember. On the advertising side of mktg religion I would like to see a disclaimer at the end of each ad. You know something like "for entertainment purposes only".

I think Churches would be better off to take a hard look at why they are losing members than to spend a bunch of money to marketing. I mean you can bring the customer in but then you have to keep him. I think the problem is that the whole faith is based on 'you are a bad person and you need god to forgive you' people aren't buying that anymore. They spend a lot of time making people feel bad about themselves. The burnt out Christians we get in Paganism we have to spend a lot of time building them up again. The poor people are a reck. They think they are bad and need to be punished. They are scared of everything, but they are look for a answers. Really sad. If it is their Path they stay in it and we are glad to have them. If it is not they move on, but they are better for the experience and we are happy for them. If you have a true teaching you don't need marketing, students will come.

But on the other side i've seen, people who have been drug addict, abused, suicidal and etc. Come to a church and find out that there is more to life than what they are living, example Myself. And it wasn't the church that really changed my life, it wasn't a preacher, and it wasn't a book. Just b.c some people dont get something out of a church doesn't mean it Christianity's fault. It could be the Church isn't doing whats right, or it could be the person.

Yet I have seen people who were addicted, etc that overcame their problems without the crutch of religion. Then there is the thought that all the addict did was exchange their addiction (be it tobacco, alchohol, drugs, sex,etc) for another one (religion). Addiction is addiction no matter the object of addiction.

Yes Mako, you are correct. A person has to make a conscious effort to get rid of an addiction. And sometimes a religion or God won't even take it away from you. If God just took something away from you then you will usually go back to it because it was so easy to get rid of. God knows when a person needs to battle their addictions and those that need it released from them.

Does that make sense to you?

Thats def true, i cant speak for others but as for me, i have had addictions and wanted to kill myself, and church did nothing. I know church cannot always change someone life, it can always though be an influence good or bad. Yea i know people who use religion as a crutch. And i feel sorry for them, cause there is more than that. As for me, when i had reached the end and death seemed a pleasant atlternative to life, it wasn't a church that saved me. It was God, now can i show you physical evidence, well..... im still alive not addicted to anything anymore and my life has been amazing. Was it easy nope, but I got through it. Ive seen some amazing things happen in my life, and as for me i trust in God. Is this proof that God exsist..... to each be his own.SO i agree with you mako about religion. I dont like religion, and i dont consider myself a religious person. Men has done horrible and will do horrible things in the name of religion

Me too.
It all depends on what crutch you use to get through the hard times. Some people use religion and others use exercise. We all trade one addiction for another. It's a human trait.

Sorry Ma'am, it is a typical Theist cop-out that gives the God du jour credit for the effort that the individual puts into conquering an addiction. Those that use religion as the crutch to help them overcome an addiction are really only trading one addicition for another, oft times to their mental detriment!

But how can God or any creator be a bad thing?

Didn't say they were a bad thing, just said that they would not want credit for what an individual did on their own and that religion (not a god or creator) can be just another substitue addition, usually in an unheathly way....no god or creator would want and individual to trade one addiction for another, no matter the supposed beneficial result.

Yeah I don't think God wants us to be addicted to a religion but love God with all our hearts. That is what God/creator wants from us is to love him and help others and not just sway to the churches ways if they are not what he wants.

bacca: Maybe I need to start a church

It may seem strange, but one of the comforts I have is that if the worst got to the worst, I could easily go to Hollywood and be successful in starting a cult, the members of which would support me quite handsomely in my old age. When on a tour in Egypt, wearing a galabiyah and with a longer beard, I was told a number of times that I looked "just like" Moses (how did they know what Moses really looked like?). I have spent my adult life managing and supervising people, so I do know the ropes. Sales has been a real talent of mine (yes, Virginia, sales abilities are necessary even for civil engineers, if they want to get proposals accepted). I can be eloquent, I know the Bible reasonably well (better than many cult leaders), and can easily make things up as I go along. I am Irish . . . need I say more?

I would have to be really desperate, though, to take advantage of other people's superstitions . . . but what the heck, plenty of others do the same, and many times they are looked upon as pillars of their communities.

Maybe a different book, Larry, Please.

Yeah Larry, make your book logical and without the constant contradictions (that'll stir Amalgamut up) that the Christian one has!

I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not self denial. Love is not blood and suffering. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that iscontingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being.

rat, I don't know how old you are, or how educated, but you are indeed older and wiser than most! I stand in awe of your wisdom!

Rot very well said!!

People

When I read this post remembered seeing it credited to a Dan Barker to day at valleyskeptic.com.

yeah.. and things!

Shame Shame, rat, when you quote someone you should give credit and the sourse.
But it is a great quote.

Interesting site, zandore

Nooow I see! Mmmm... you know.. Rats are rather tasty deep fried...

As far as I am concerned, love was best defined by Robert Heinlein: "Love is when another's happiness and well-being are essential to your own." Says it all!

Very nice Larry Thankyou for sharing this Namaste sheri

Here kitty kitty kitty... here's a nice rat for you.

oops, back on topic. I think Churches would get more members if they were less judgemental. I mean one of our posters said her Church wasn't excepting of her and her daughter. How cruel to do that to a mother and child. The world is hard enough to raise kids in without making them feel bad about who they are.
When you get right down to it Jesus's parentage is questionable.

Darkwind, it seems that at some point as a whole (with the exception of your religion and a few others) we have to looka t the truth that not alot want to look at organized religion is not the soulution but the problem not to say there are not some good ideas about religion but the focus is on that which doesn't serve and it isn't leading to an unconditionally loving Planet, The blind leading the blind Religion claims to be striving to be godlike in thier lives and the God they are striving to be like is small minded petty and jealous who can't be pleased Religon has turned divinity into the worst of humanity. I don't say this in meaness I say this because it saddens me we have so much potential and we don't insist on only striving to be like a Unconditional tolerant God Namaste sheri

Off topic
Have you read any of the writings of Ken Keyes??? He was a man who much like yourself took an illness and inspired many. I would say you are in the leagues of the great masters Your friend sheri

As far as I am concerned, love is best defined in 1 Corinthians 13, which says:

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails"

Regards, PA

Hey P.A. Yea i like that Definition of love, its an unconditional love. To bad unconditional love is hard to find.

Gotta agree with Beastie, good one PA

Break out the champagne guys. There's a party at my place - all invited. Mako and I agree on something

Oh, we agree on much more than you know, but not too often.

I told that member (Strongly suggested) that she find a different Church that she would be more welcomed in.
Very true!

"Oh, what a catastrophe, what a maiming of love when it was made a personal, merely personal feeling, taken away from the the rising and the setting of the sun, and cut off from the magic connection of the solstice and equinox!...We are bleeding at the roots, because we are cut off from the earth and sun and stars, and love is a grinning mockery, because, poor blossom, we plucked it from its stem on the tree of Life, and expected it to keep on blooming in our civilized vase on the table." D.H. Lawrence

.
LOVE is our essence, when did we make it an emotion separate from us?
IT is who we are.

"Love is Hell"
-Matt Groening

OUCH

That is basically the teachings of Francis Hutcheson the 18th century Minister/Philosopher of Scotland (my favorite of that period). He believed that God build the desire to help and please others into us.