Hi,

I have noticed that some christians-including myself has been mean to a person or people of different beliefs.

Why would someone do this?

I know I have yelled at someone in heated arguements but I usually mend things.

I just don't think God wants us to be so cruel to our brothers and sisters. If we are mean to them why in the world would they want to become Christian.

I mean it is just common sense.

It's because were using our own perspectives and ego's on these arguments. God does not make us do every little thing, we are created with the gift of free will.

I know but is being mean really the right thing to do. I try to hold my emotions back and look at things. We should understand on another. Not belittle each other like we are in Highschool.


Free will has nothing to do with being hateful.

Free will has everything to do with everything...Our will decides everything for us, if you will to hate, you will hate. But as for belittleing each other...It's just what most resort to in confrontation or argument settings. It's all in the way a person is.

But we are supposed to ask God to Conform our will to his.

we are supposed to be like God and not be like others but walk a seperate path.

it would seem only natural for a person to play to the ego when one follows the teachings of the ego. it would seem only to be an act of imitation for one who follows a "god" of dominance to try to dominate, of intolorance to be intolorant.

We are born with free will and we alone decide what to do with it. "Do what thou wilt shall be the hole of the law""Love is the law, love under will" - Aleister Crowley

to think one is born of complete free will is to be misled. even if born of such a construct, it is stripped away moment by moment thereafter. the biologic machine is programmed, both from within and from without. this so highly cherished concept of free will is the one thing you fail to achieve.

I don't recall this Crowley to be an author of God's word.

Although free will is given to us. We should not abuse it. If we do we are going to be abusing God's love and grace.

Hyper, I know how you feel about Christianity but I know that we are supposed to show God's love as of the NT and not the power (dominance) of the OT. This was just a showing of God's power to the world.

the dominance displayed in the O.T is far less menacing than the dominance shown in the new testament.

your opinion will of course depend on whether you view physical dominance or psychological dominace as more damaging. From my experience, psychological dominance is a far more powerful and destructive tool.

Well I guess it is from ones perspective.

But the purpose of this thread is to be nicer. If we are not nice and condemn others to Hell of course people will lash out. DUH!

I just get so furious when I see supposed Christians yell at another over something and then cuss them out. Yeah that is God's love right?

"love" can mean many things.

Well I love many people on this forum and none of them are like me. So love is different people and different views.

But for some people he is. What it is all about is respect. To respect others who may not believe as you do and know you may have something to learn from them. You really don't have to love everybody just respect them.
It is a battle we all deal with whether you are Christian, Pagan, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc...

Thanks Darkwind. That was very nice. It is all about respect. I try not to yell at others even if they are not agreeing with me. But I don't know this Crowley. I guess I could look him up.

and yet, love is a love to control, love is a love to torture, love is a love to conquor, love is a love to create, love is a love to destroy.....

love is relative to the subject at hand.

but what is all this talk of love? i think that the true character of people is not shown in peace, but in conflict. when tough descisions have to be made, the true character surfaces. when christians battle it out, the true nature shows, the true nature of them and the true nature of the religion. the relgion survives because it is at its core a relfection of the human need to dominate, control, and destroy.

But sweetie I don't recall being outright mean but a few times and it wasn't even about religion. It was other issues. I guess love to you is different. But you are true about the colors showing once the battle begins. I know of many people who get angry but to let your anger consume you like a demon. It makes no sense. Do we not bear the fruits of the holy spirit. Self Control,Patience, Goodness,love? I see little of these fruits and to grow in Christ you must bear the fruits of the spirit.

Crowley was a poet, writer, addict and damn good black magician. He told of the new aeon of Horus we were entering and is now in. I would not call him a christain rolemodel by no part but there is little few men who would ever achieve what Crowley had done in his lifetime. Also as for free will, we are born with it and from there we decide what we do with it. Everyone should be "in touch" with their real will, if not then how will you get what you want? No man should influence your own will.

That could be said of anyone 101, not just christians. We all cling to our own thoughts/feelings/beliefs/opinions, and when they are challenged, we respond emotionally.

Yes I understand we should be in touch with our own will. But some people allow their free will to consume them and act out with anger and frustation. That is why we ask God to conform it to his. I mean as a christian we must surrender our lives to Christ.

Hi 101

I do not think you have been mean, very respectable in fact, maybe you have raised the tone a little, but haven’t we all?

All the best
Faeden

and how do you know what you want? programming. "no man", but man, animal, plant, mineral, they all influence and exert control over you. the present is the result of an unfolding of events prior which does not allow for the freedom of which you dream. it appears free because you have choices WITHIN the domain unfolded before you. that however is but a small subset of the potential. you are free to exercise such will only within limited confines, and even those choices are not equal in likelihood. Easily manipulated they are. People can be worked like puppets with but a bit of effort while the puppet believes it freely chooses its course.


this is the act of an untrained mind. not all fall victim to the primative.

JMPD, I know that being emotional is something we all deal with. But what is that they say don't allow your emotions to get in between polictical debates and religish debates. Tis very hard to do. Maybe some of us that don't show emotion is


Faedan, We all raise our tomes but when someone comes out and starts cursing at you or another it is when I get upset. I know it isn't my place to get upset but I just don't like it.

It is still free because we have choice over one thing or another. I understand how the circumstances we find ourselves in may restrict our freedom of choice but we still have our will. I would also like for you to further explain the puppeteer that is controlling us, dumbfounded puppets. As for "that however is but a small subset of the potential." i understand what we know is only limited but no one will experiance themselves in their full potential.

it is not free because it comes at a cost, and it is not free will, becuase simply thinking you have a choice does not mean you do have a choice. free will as an illusion is very real. people are free to think of the many different options they could choose, but ultimately much is fortold by the history of events prior such that even though there are dreams of the "1000's of options", the choice can be fairy accurately predicted with enough data on the history.

on puppets: given what i have stated above, one can easily manipulate the variables within the present to achieve a desired outcome (of the puppet). it is very simple. a very simplistic example of manipulation for effect is colour. yellow is used in "bargain grocery stores" here in canada. the reason in that yellow is a colour that subconsciously drives people out, thus people spend less time in the store. this is wonderful when you make money on volume and people lingering about reading packages or other "shopping slowdowns" is detrimental to your objective.

people do not experience themselves to the full potential because potential is lost at each critical decision point. this is not a philosphical discussion on the potential of poeple, but rather a statement of fact as to how the biologic machine works.

I see what you are saying now but I cannot agree with you. I believe each decision is made by ourselves and not made by some all knowing, number spitting money machine. I do not believe anyone controls my decisions simply because my thought pattern is too random and I will not do the same thing in the same situation twice. I believe we see things as they are laid out and decide what is the most desireable option at that time. I believe we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one

Hyper, isn't free will given to us by God. We never had to pay for it. I mean even in the beginnig the people were allowed to make choices on their own and consequences they endured were because of the choices they made.

adding god into strips away even the subset of choice offered IMO because now we are not just accounting for the limitations of possibilities due to past events but are accounting for a pre-determined conclusion! Without god, even the limited potentials still can bring majorly different outcomes while with a god only inconsequential potentials would be allowed to vary.

in understanding limitations one can work around them.

to baldwin: it is important to account for perspective. what seems random from one's own perspective may indeed show a pattern at a more universal level. a better way to show this is with "miracles". people have an event of low probability occur in their favor and they call it a miracle, yet when you look at the global likelihoods for such an event, perhaps several should occur on a daily basis. in understanding the more "unversal" parameters the miraculous becomes the mondane. now the same can be said of "will". if you look at the more global perspective you can break free of the "bubble" within which one lives and gain much more control over your life = will. but, with greater understanding of choice, comes greater understanding of consequences, which is the opposing force to freedom of will. "why don't you jump off a building?" is the classic example. the answer being because you know the consequences, thus stripping away the freedom to jump. in complete igonrance can be found complete freedom of the will. that is why i said perhaps it is present at birth and slowly stripped away from that point forward.

I understand what your saying hyperactive, but I can't force myself to believe anything other then that of us having control over our will. But I must say I respect your posts because they add a lot to this thread.

Aleister Crowley free will’s philosophy devolves in the mind of apes as a mockery of the true human will’s philosophy, thus, corrupting in humanity the only thing that such a gibberish can never give!
My Webpage

Oh my I am almost in agreeance with Loge. Somebody stock the bomb shelter.....*STAT



I just wanted to say that I agree with Hyperactives point on the way people show their real nature during conflicts. This is true one of our now departed Mods, The Oracle had a sig that read.....'The soul is like a stained glass window, the darker the night the brighter the light from within' or something like that, he has recently changed it to ' Never play leap frog with a Unicorn' which ic not quite the same.

And 101 the way you handle conflicts without resorting to name calling and nastyness is a true reflection of who you are. A very nice person.

I agree with that.


Crowley is Crowley. Like I said some people like him some don't. There are some things he came up with are amazing, a lot of it is trash: in my opinion anyway.

I agree with you completely. Some of his works are truly magnificant though. The trash of his work may have a lot to do with his hardcore heroin addiction.

It may have had something to do with it, and sometimes I wonder how much damage he actualy did to the image of the Wiccan.

Hyper I agree with you word for word 100% you become as great as your last thought Religion shows what it is by example .


101 I would never say you are mean you handle yourself very respectfully regardless and I should know We disagree everyday. You are an example by the way you respond always respectful Namaste sheri

I know what your saying fully...Crowley's ways were, how shall I put this, quite hedonistic.

Crowley was a practioner of the occult, and "black" magic at that, oriented around sexual practices which would be abhored by most people. In fact, nothing made him happier than shocking other people. The priestess of his coven later described him as “a dirty-minded, evilly-disposed and vicious little monster!” She, if anyone, should have known.

I agree, 101 is one of the nicest, level headed members of this forum. Many of us could do well to learn from her example.

I too agree about 101. She is among the few whom I would never consider to be mean. 101, you are among the best. A couple of others (but not limited to) are Sheri berri and bacca. Really nice people to know, and definitely favorite posters for me.

Yes, 101 is lovely and patient. Let us not Hijack her thread anymore..

I can see where you are comming from 101, it really is something a lot of people of different religions do. We areall so busy crying 'I'm right', 'No! I'm right' that we forget to look at what we are realy accomplishing.

Thanks guys for all your sweet compliments.


I just thought that if we all showed our love given by our God/gods/creator that we would be much better people.


We all deserve respect from one another.

Ya 101 is nice. I think we all raise flags.But what I don't understand is I never name call yet I'am bashed at all the time. I might raise red flags everytime I turn around but I'am not mean or cruel to people whereelse most here have been to me everytime I get into a heated discussion with someone then they automatically get nasty with me just because we may not have the same opinions. So who does that make in the wrong here?? If anyone looks back at my posts, then I would say over 50% of them is me put in a position of defense without letting down, therefor if someone has had a problem with me, they automatically are cruel towards me-even when my posts aren't being directed at them.
And JMPD I know we may have never gotten along well on here, in fact I don't know why. I think maybe we both are level firm headed or whatever it maybe, it's ridiculous. Example is the other day you attacked me when I wasn't even talking to you, in fact you insulted me. I think we all should look at what we do wrong and not just base feelings and rude comments on bad past disagreements.
I don't know. I know I may have got a little tempered at time and may have made a few small attacks, but nothing mean or of hatred. Mine has always been debatacle and never intentional of being mean to someone. I think if those that don't like me would let go of how they have dealt with me in the past, then maybe we could move on and without me making a post and wondering if a ugly remark or comment is gonna pop up out of the blue to me.

Hey Starlitkate, Maybe you should pm JMPD he really is a nice guy. He is just very opinionated as are others. Maybe you could resolve matters with them via pm. If it does not work then squash it. That is all you can do about it.

Lets end this here and now.

Starlitkate: I apologize for anytime I have made a comment, that you found offensive, derogatory, or inflammatory.

I shall endeavor not to do so again.

If you should choose to accept this apology, please refrain from bringing up my past transgressions in the future.


good journey

JMPD1 I try to keep in mind that if someone is fighting with me they want my attention, they want to be heard often they want help with whats hurting them, No one who attacks ever thinks of themselves as the one who is attacking they only see themselves as defending something, I can understand how certian ones around here have come to the conclusions they have given the beliefs they have put their faith in, Understanding is the foundation of all healing and I respect your wise handling of the situation on this particular topic, NamasteSheri

"Love your neighbour as yourself"

Your neighbour is not just the person who lives next door to you, but everyone you ever interact with (or even indirectly have an impact on). We should love everybody.

Regards,

May I inject my tuppence worth here? I will say, we have had mean Christians on this board (not as bad as the hit-and-run Christian Trolls on the ExChristian board), but for the most part we have a great group of Christians here. 101, I love you lady, you try to live your religion - power to ya! Somethinglikelaughter, we have had quite a few dustups and I admire your eloquence and scholarship. PA, you are my mate! I enjoy our discussions (even if we sometimes do raise our voices), I don't believe as you do, but I admire your unceasing defense of your religion and your ability to admit when something about it or its adherents isn't quite right - Good on you mate!

I had an intersesting conversation with a youth pastor, who has been my best friend for years. In dealt with how Christians are perceived by the world. And how actually the world was probly right about how most Christians act. And i will have to say i am sad about how alot of Christians show themselves. When we look at Jesus, He always hungout with the so called "outcast and sinners" and showed them an unconditional type of love, as well as grace and compassion. And as a Christian, im sad to say that alot of Churches have not hit the mark on sharing the love compassion and grace that God has for us. BUt on the flip side there are some amazing churched that do a great job of showing God love and Grace.


"Now these three remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love."
1co 13:13

Beastmode thanks for your input. That was a wonderful little post.

PA I still love ya and your way of thinking.

Mako thanks for your kind words. I love you too.

thank ya, i really enjoy reading your post 101, really cool insight!!!