Im really not a good christian, and I barely go to church. I have a question that probally a devout Christian could answer. In the Bible, it says some where that God grants everlasting life to whoever truly believes in him. Is everlasting life reincarnation??? Will the good people who died be reborn into good life? And will the people who have mortally sinned, will be reborn into a horrible/suffering life?

I believe the general Christian viewpoint is that 'everylasting life' is eternity in heaven.

I personally believe in reincarnation, but that does not stem from the bible, although it does fit in with the everlasting life concept.

I kind of believe a different twist on it all.

I imagine we are first very young spirits in a lower level of heaven. Then we are told that we can continue to grow there, but slowly, or come here and make quick soul growth. Everyone that comes here grows at different rates depending on how difficult their lives are. Those that choose to be rich or have much fortune in life grow slower than a person that would choose to live a horrible existence. There must be some way to select who gets to come to the earth to live, and those that get selected then choose every aspect of their lives. They choose their parents, the kinds of difficulties they will face and even choose how they will die.

The more brave souls choose difficult lives and painful deaths. But they make the most soul progression. They may also get to come back here to live a life of good fortune. Like Jesus said to someone that asked him about rich people. He said "Don't pity them, they have their reward."
To get a reward you commonly have to do something to earn it.
He also said the bit about it being harder to put a camel through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to ge to heaven. The heaven he was talking about is probably a higher level heaven that is much closer to God. So that may show that if you choose to come here and have a rich life, you will not get very far in soul growth. And if you live a horrible life you may get to come back to enjoy a better one as a reward.
Anyway, it makes sense to me.

IMO As you self actualize , the divinity of ALL creation comes forth As limitations are released Divinity does not reveal itself to be different from itself but the same as itself, In non duality all is one expressing itself in a myraid of ways, All that is is eternal ,, to be granted this by "god" is lining someones pockets and stroking someones BIG ego. and keeping a whole lot of people ignorant. Namaste Sheri

Sherri berri, you are so eloquent I've always said - "everyone has to chance to be everything" and it makes sense to me again

Me again thanks I do find this subject to be very interesting, I like your perspective also, Namaste sheri

Each fall, I watch the rose bushes fade and wither in my garden. The following spring, however, I find it filled with blossoms. What's more, I find a blossom in the exact place that was another the year before and I secretly ask, "Is it the same one?"

Reincarnation is easy to accept since it fits neatly into the cycle of all things about life, our universe and nature.

I have no firm convictions about the after-life but if reincarnation is true and it's anything like this life, I will surely return as a tree and everyone I know will be dogs.

Claizen.

There are two forms of Everlasting life. One is length of days or days without end. We all have this. The Other is more of a QUALITY of Life. That is KNOWING the One True God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent.

The Second form requires Belief.

(JOHN 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only
begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have everlasting life. (KJV)

(JOHN 17:3) And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the
only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. (KJV)

Even if a person were to die, Not knowing Jesus THEN. They will know Him later, and the same as Born Again here, they perish as an old creature or change by the knowledge of Christ. So even after earthly death, the old can perish and the New begins.

Those in hell were raised the third day, they did not KNOW Jesus then. Hell was a place of sleep till Jesus died for sin. The 1,000 year reign was the day of the cross, the Rest of the dead lived not again till the 1,000 years was over which is over on the Second day. The Book of Revelation looks at the day of the cross over and over.

(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)
(HOSEA 6:3) Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord:
his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto
us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. (KJV)

NOTICE in 6:3 “THEN shall we know if we follow on to know the Lord:” So they did not know Jesus when He raised them up on the third day.

Those in hell rose with Jesus:

(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I
have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)

All the Dead rose with Jesus:

(ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body
shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy
dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)

Hell ceased to exist on the third day. “Behold the lamb of God which TAKETH AWAY the sin of the world.”


Daniel 9:24 shows Jesus made an END of sin, and brought in everlasting righteousness. It is a prophecy, it had to be fulfilled when Jesus went up to Jerusalem as Luke 18:31 shows. It has a SEAL, the Disciples and Paul never got past the seal to see sin ended as Accountable unto mankind. Jesus PAID IT ALL.

Ken

Here's a website with an interesting view on christianity and reincarnation, they take verses straight from the bible and explain how it refers to reincarnation. Hope it helps


EDIT: here's a verse from the bible that makes complete and utter nonsense without a concept of reincarnation

"No one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or wife or children or land for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age - homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields ... and in the age to come, eternal life. (Mark 10:29-30)"

Wingman.

When Jesus spoke those words in Mark 10:29/30, He had yet to go to the cross and put an End of Death. So there was an AGE to come after Golgotha. That is when Jesus ESTABLISHED Eternal Life.

That is when all the Prophecies are Established as Truth. And Mark 10:29/30 is a prophecy.

(MARK 10:29) And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you,
There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or
father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and
the gospel's, (KJV)
(MARK 10:30) But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time,
houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and
lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
(KJV)


The Words which Jesus spoke, God gave Him. This applies to Jesus Himself also. Jesus went to the House of Israel. It did not receive Him, He had to shake off the dust which was the Disciples. And many were His Disciples "Whom is My Mother, and Brethren?"

The Parable of the Sower is like all parables (if you do not know this parable,How will you know all parables?) They are all for the day of the cross.

The day as 4 6-hour periods. Sunset to Midnight is the Wayside, the Disciples are the seeds which fell. Midnight to sunrise as stony ground, those cold to Jesus as Stones. Coals of fire are believers in Christ. Thorns as heathens, Good Ground is noon to sunset as Jesus died.

Day seen as 3 pictures, 30 fold, 60 fold, 100 fold, and He just got 100 fold.

If the Disciples were to hold their peace, and the day of the cross they did. Another prophecy was the STONES would cry out, they did, those cold to Jesus cried out "Crucify Him!"

The Priesthood were the Stones cast down.

(MATTHEW 5:18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth
pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all be fulfilled. (KJV)

Old Heaven is Sunset to Midnight, Old Earth is Midnight to sunrise. They fell from His Face seen as the Face of a man on the third beast with 6-wings or third 6-hour period, All prophecies, every jot and tittle fulfilled the day of the cross.

(LUKE 18:31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them,
Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by
the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (KJV)

Ken

The Christian faith believes the eternal life is life in heaven for the people who accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior. I personally believe in reincarnation.

Ken, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

I don't believe in reincarnation per se. My understanding of everlasting life is eternal life as a spirit entity. I guess that is a form of reincarnation (though not into this world, which will no longer exist). It's depressingly standard Biblical dogma, but it works for me

Regards, PA

Ken,
So the Bible means, that if you never believed him, you will be born again or go to Hell, where you will be saved after that??

Wingman.

Jesus is the ONLY person who was reincarnated. He is David and Bathsheba’s child born outside wedlock, which died 7 days after birth. 1,000 years later He is laid in a manger in Bethlehem. He is not only the First begotten of the DEAD, He is the LAST.

(REVELATION 1:5) And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful
witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the
kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our
sins in his own blood, (KJV)

Jesus was REBORN at Bethlehem, as a PRINCE, He is the Son of King David as God swore in His Holiness He would be. That is why Jesus told Martha “I am the Resurrection.” before ever going to the cross.

That is how Jesus told His Disciples “AGAIN” I leave the earth and go to the Father. before going to the cross.

(JOHN 16:28) I came forth from the Father, and am come into the
world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father. (KJV)

And the Disciples Understood He was saying He had lived on the earth before:

(JOHN 16:29) His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou
plainly, and speakest no proverb. (KJV)
(JOHN 16:30) Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and
needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that
thou camest forth from God. (KJV)

We do not get reincarnated. We go Home to God at death, Believer and Non-believer alike, Jesus paid it all.


Claizen.

All go to Heaven, Hell ceased to exist on the third day. Because Jesus TOOK AWAY the sin of the world, there were no reasons to keep them from God. Those out of hell are seen as Children, as arrows shot forth, the Sepulchre seen as a quiver. They are by Heaven’s gate telling those who do not know of the Love and Mercy of God about Him.

(JEREMIAH 5:15) Lo, I will bring a nation upon you from far, O
house of Israel, saith the Lord: it is a mighty nation, it is an
ancient nation, a nation whose language thou knowest not, neither
understandest what they say. (KJV)
(JEREMIAH 5:16) Their quiver is as an open sepulchre, they are all
mighty men. (KJV)

Jesus is the House of Israel, those out of hell is who come to Him.

(PSALMS 127:3) Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: and the
fruit of the womb is his reward. (KJV)
(PSALMS 127:4) As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are
children of the youth. (KJV)
(PSALMS 127:5) Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them:
they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in
the gate. (KJV)

So by the broken down gate of Heaven, Stand thousands of millions who will tell you of the Love of God if you need to know. Jesus openeth the Gate, and no man shutteth. They are seen in Scripture as Rebekah’s children.

(GENESIS 24:60) And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou
art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and
let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them. (KJV)

Heaven likened to brass, He has broken down the gates of brass, Earth seen as Iron, He has cut asunder the bars of iron= set His prisoners free.

(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I
have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water.
(KJV)

Jesus had to go into hell so He would be there to fulfill Zechariah 9:11. He had the power to take up His life, BUT, He had to wait on the Lord till the third day so the Scripture would be fulfilled.

(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)

Ken

Ken,

But what about those murderers, and those poeple who commit a mortal sin?

Reincarnation for one IS in the Bible was previously (and in some forms of) accepted in Judaism.

Reincarnation is used IN BETWEEN going to either Heaven (the 3rd Heaven), the 10 levels of hell (Starting with Gehenna, and ending with Abaddon, the lowest hell) or Sheol 'pergatory'. Each sin comes with it a time limit. When you finish that you more than likely return (prior to Jesus, who changed this and gave future generations the CHANCE to enter Heaven, EVERYONE went to hell and had to complete 12 months in each level of hell down to Abaddon then returning to Earth). Reincarnation is your 'second chance' (or 10th, 15th, 100th, etc) until you get it right, in th ONLY place you can do do SO....the testing ground, the only place with 'free will'. You must right your wrongs OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

Your astrological chart will no doubt show past life errors. Need I say again that the 8th level of Heaven is the Zodiac belt (yes, space, Heaven all 10 levels of them, are in space, as are the hells) and the 9th the houses of the Zodiac. That is 'the firmanent of Heaven', and aboove that is the 10th level, where God's own throne resides.

Hi there

Talking about Mortal sins are you a catholic? Sorry I dont know much about what they believe.

But, I think Christians believe in one life here and one life afterwards:

Hebrews 9: 27Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Mortal sins, I meant if you break the Ten COmmandments.

Claizen.

Jesus took the place of a Murderer at Golgotha. Barabbas was set free. I think God was showing us something. Barabbas did not ask for Jesus to take his place. Jesus did it out of love.

As far as Mortal sins, that is a Term used a lot by the Catholic Church. Consider this: Jesus took what you do, and moved it to what you desire to do. Listing both as the same. So if you hate, You just as well kill. for the Relationship God desired we have has been killed. We do not love one another.

Jesus asked about a man who had two debtors, one owing a lot, another owing little, Both had no ability to repay, and Both were forgiven the debt. Jesus then asked, “Who would love Him more?”

(LUKE 7:41) There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the
one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. (KJV)
(LUKE 7:42) And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave
them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most? (KJV)
(LUKE 7:43) Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he
forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged. (KJV)

When we get to heaven, and all go to heaven, We remember what we did. And that will not sit well with a lot of people. But the Forgiveness of God will be very apparent there. We will see what we deserve, and what Jesus took in our place.

It might help to know the Sheep are the Wicked, Seen in Jeremiah 12:1/3. Jesus renders to man His righteousness so they fed the hungry, clothed the naked, Etc. Because Jesus did the works, mankind gets the credit. The Goats seen as His Battle horse in Zechariah 10:3/6 seen as if He had not cast them off.


The Jewish nation believes in Reincarnation. Not as a whole for all people, But for some. They set a plate for Elijah at the Passover meal. God saying He would send Elijah (Taken to God when alive in a whirlwind) so it would not really be reincarnation as this is being used on this Forum. But they were looking for one back from the Dead.

(JOHN 1:19) And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent
priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou? (KJV)
(JOHN 1:21) And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he
saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. (KJV)


The Third heaven seen in Scripture is Jesus’ days likened to Heaven, made as 7 days in Isaiah 30:26. The third heaven being the third 6-hour period like the 4 beasts with 6-wings being the day of the cross as 4 6-hour periods.

So the Third heaven is Sunrise to noon. Third seal is the Black Horse with Balances, the Time of the Judgment for Christ. The Words not lawful for a man to speak was Jesus saying He is the Son of the Blessed or of God.

(2CORINTHIANS 12:2) I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years
ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the
body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the
third heaven. (KJV)
(2CORINTHIANS 12:3) And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or
out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) (KJV)
(2CORINTHIANS 12:4) How that he was caught up into paradise, and
heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. (KJV)

(MARK 14:61) But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the
high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the
Son of the Blessed? (KJV)
(MARK 14:62) And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man
sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of
heaven. (KJV)
(MARK 14:63) Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What
need we any further witnesses? (KJV)
(MARK 14:64) Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they
all condemned him to be guilty of death. (KJV)

Jesus spoke words not lawful for a man to speak, during the third Heaven. Third angel sounds, Star falls to the earth, Jesus made all things cursed, He is even as the earth, it is the Prophecy for the Judgment falling on Christ from sunrise to noon. Star’s name is Wormwood, Stars are as signs.

(AMOS 5:7) Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off
righteousness in the earth, (KJV)

As far as breaking one of the ten commandments, We all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. But Jesus took AWAY the sin of the world.

Ken

You really have no idea what you're talking about do you.

Ashley.

Actually I don’t need to know what I am talking about. Just relay the messages correctly. But I also listen to the messages, and most of these concepts I see quite well.

I have a little knowledge in Physics. I know what would happen if ONE TINY Star fell to the Earth, Let alone, all the Stars fell to the earth.

God shows He speaks in Similitudes. The Star falling is not even a consideration as being a real Star. As Sunrise to noon was the Judgment, The judgment fell on Christ, and the Judgment seen as Wormwood.

God likened His days to Heaven, God makes His day as 7 days, The math comes out to words unlawful for a man to speak, and it happened within the 6-hour period. The third seal being the Black Horse with Balances. What do we see as a Sign of Judgment? Maybe a set of Balances?

Fourth seal is noon to Sunset, the pale Horse, Death followed by Hell, Jesus died and descended into hell during those 6-hours. How close can it get before the Light shines through?

Ken

That's your interpretation however Ken. Theseverses and terms had different meanings far older than the symbolic Christian ones. Those meanings are much more in-depth and I would say factual.

I know i shouldnt but i just had to ask you do realize ken that the roman church voted on weither jesus was the son of god or a man. And that non of the messiah prophecys has anything to do with diening for peoples sins. And that in the book 24 of mathew(like the way that sounds.. anyway) He tells about the true massiah who is called ... the son of man. And that jesus never fulfilled any prophecys.

And that pilate was known to crusify anyone who might be a political threat to him.

Im not trying to knock your religion just hopping by saying a few truths and a few lies youll look around instead of just believing everything you read from one book.

And be careful following a god with no name. Its like saying Hay you in a crowd.

Hello everyone ive read the boards for a few months but i finaly registered. So hi and all that.

Heru.

The Roman Catholic Church can vote all it wants, It does not get too many right. Catholic Dogma might be considered when searching the Concepts out to see if they are Truth or not. But they are not accepted by me as facts just because of what the Catholic Church says.

And the use of the words “Son of God.” also have many meaning to different people. There is a vast difference between God raising David’s son to be the Son of God, and God coming down and taking the form of the Son.

When the BODY of Christ is born the day of the cross as Seen in Psalms 6:7. That is with us in that Body. As God poured out His Spirit (Jesus) upon all flesh. That is when God said “Thou art My Son, This day have I begotten Thee.”

None of the prophecies have Jesus dying for people’s sins? Better read them again. In Isaiah God lays upon Jesus the iniquity of us all:

(ISAIAH 53:6) All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned
every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the
iniquity of us all. (KJV)

Under the Law in Deuteronomy 24:16, which shows Original Sin is not Scriptural truth. That sin is not passed down, It shows Jesus could not die for our sins, He had to have those sins AS HIS OWN. So placing all iniquity on Jesus, Then putting Jesus to death for all iniquity which belongs to Him. Ends Sin as Daniel 9:24 shows.

(DEUTERONOMY 24:16) The fathers shall not be put to death for the
children, neither shall the children be put to death for the
fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. (KJV)

Jesus came to fulfill the law and the prophets. Deuteronomy 24:!6 and Isaiah 53:6 are just two of them. Which HAD to be fulfilled to the Jot and Tittle.

The 24th Chapter of Matthew talks of End times, That is the day of the cross. Scripture shows He sits as a Sparrow on the Housetop. That is Jesus on the Cross, So He who is on the Housetop is not to come down and take anything out of His house. The Priests are asking Jesus to “Come down, that we might see and believe.” But Jesus is to remain on the Cross till death.

It also says for He who is in the field, not to return to take up His clothes. The Sepulchre is in a garden or field, Jesus does not have clothes with Him. He just has the linen cloth, with the Napkin on His Face. Jesus has the power to take up His life, That commandment was given Him by God, But He has to stay in the Sepulchre till the third day. Or WAIT ON THE LORD.

This is also when God gives Jesus over to serve the Gods of wood and Stone, which is the Cross and the Sepulchre, gods seen as those things which have power over you, things you re afraid of.

The prophecy to be Crucified was seen way back when the temple was to be rebuilt, and the Daily Sacrifices were to be started again, and the person who ended the Daily Sacrifice had a Curse coming, And Jesus ended the DAILY Sacrifices by offering Himself.

(EZRA 6:9) And that which they have need of, both young bullocks,
and rams, and lambs, for the burnt offerings of the God of heaven,
wheat, salt, wine, and oil, according to the appointment of the
priests which are at Jerusalem, let it be given them day by day
without fail: (KJV)
(EZRA 6:10) That they may offer sacrifices of sweet savours unto
the God of heaven, and pray for the life of the king, and of his
sons. (KJV)
(EZRA 6:11) Also I have made a decree, that whosoever shall alter
this word, let timber be pulled down from his house, and being set
up, let him be hanged thereon; and let his house be made a dunghill
for this. (KJV)


Knock any and all religions, Try them, Prove each point, For if the person can not answer, Then at least they need to search for the answer. What ever it might turn out to be. And Christianity would not be without KNOCKS anyway, He stands at the door and Knocks.

Jesus has NO NAME. NONE declareth, NONE showeth, When I called, NONE did Answer, There is NONE beside Me. NONE can by any means redeem His brother. And He is even given a Surname, “NONE ELSE”

(DEUTERONOMY 4:35) Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know
that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him. (KJV)

(ISAIAH 45:6) That they may know from the rising of the sun, and
from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and
there is none else. (KJV)

(DEUTERONOMY 4:39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in
thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the
earth beneath: there is none else. (KJV)

THIS DAY is the Day of the Cross, And it THAT DAY is the day of the Cross. The day the Scriptures look to, When Jesus became AS GOD. Jesus being the son of David, raised to be the SON of God just as God swore in His Holiness He would be. Jesus is the House of David, Jesus will be dead part of the day of the cross, So He is also seen as the Angel of the Lord.

(ZECHARIAH 12:8) In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants
of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be
as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of
the Lord before them. (KJV)

And if you desire to say “Hey You.” in a crowd. Go for it, He is Omni-present, He is in Every crowd, and He is with you when you are alone (as if that were possible) Regardless of what name you wish to use, God KNOWS if you are speaking to Him. THERE IS NO QUESTION in His mind concerning that.

The Bible Christians use is far more then ONE Book, it is a collection of books, the old Testament section is made up of many different people’s writings. But they are all telling the same stories. God showing Christ in different similitudes, different visions, Different dreams.

Then as the New Testament starts with Jesus coming and fulfilling what was FORETOLD of Him by God through the Prophets. This also written by different people, Not over 1500 years as the Old Testament, But about 70 years of actual writing.

The Actual fulfillment being the day of the cross:

(LUKE 18:31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them,
Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by
the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (KJV)

So jump right into the Topics here, Post on what every you see as interesting. This is an open forum. We do not all see the same way. And if you hear someone in the crowd say “Hey You!, What are those nail holes in your hands?” Then maybe you will not only know Jesus fulfilled the prophecies, He might let you put your finger in the holes.

(JOHN 20:27) Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and
behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my
side: and be not faithless, but believing. (KJV)

Ken

Then what prophesy did he fulfill? And why did the prophecy change from the son of man to the son of god? And why was there no such thing as trinity in judisim until christianity came. And why were other people consider closser to the true messiah after jesus? And theres more phrophecys to the messiah than whats in the bible, ive found a few at the source judiasm.

Heru.

There are hundreds of Prophecies. Every single one of them had to be fulfilled to the Jot and Tittle. That covers all of them from the Book of Genesis, to the book of Revelation. All prophecies are for the day of the cross.

The day of the cross is made as a week in Isaiah 30:26. Only the day of the cross fits this, as the day when God heals His people, and all mankind is His people.

Jesus is the Physical son of David, (Son of Man) who is raised to be the Son of God as God foretold to David in 2 Samuel 7:11/14. God swearing in His Holiness not to lie unto David nor alter the Words which He said that is in the 89th Psalm.

God said He would lay upon Him all the iniquity of us all. And that every man would be put to death for His OWN SIN, and Jesus had them all. Making an end of sin as Daniel 9:24 shows.

Job shows quite a few prophecies all being fulfilled one after another:

Jesus on the cross:

(JOB 33:22) Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life
to the destroyers. (KJV)

The one called the Good Thief, One standing up for Jesus would have given Jesus a Pardon from dying for sin. the Pardon seen in Jeremiah 5:1. Jesus thought He had it when the one called the Good Thief spoke up (Jesus has all sin):

(JOB 33:23) If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one
among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness: (KJV)
(JOB 33:24) Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him
from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. (KJV)

Converted as children by God’s words, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do.”

(JOB 33:25) His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall
return to the days of his youth: (KJV)

Jesus renders to man His righteousness. So all our righteousness is as Filthy rags, we all have His. That also brings in everlasting righteousness as Daniel 9:24 also showed: The Sheep seen as the Wicked in Jeremiah 12:1/3, So with the Righteousness of Christ on them, they feed the hungry, clothed the naked, Etc because Jesus did the Works we all like sheep who went astray get the blessings.

(JOB 33:26) He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto
him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto
man his righteousness. (KJV)

Prophecy for Judas repenting.

(JOB 33:27) He looketh upon men, and if any say, I have sinned, and
perverted that which was right, and it profited me not; (KJV)
(JOB 33:28) He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and
his life shall see the light. (KJV)

The day as four 6-hour periods, first picture, First seal from Sunset to Midnight is the White Horse, Jesus taking sin during this time, sin seen as clouds in Isaiah 44:22. White horse coming in clouds is this time period.

Jesus said He would go and prepare a place for us, Now He has to go do it, so the Rider on the White Horse goes forth conquering and to conquer.

This goes on and on. hundreds of prophecies. With His stripes we are healed. That took care of past and present sins up to that day, Then Jesus takes Future sins to Golgotha. Or for the overspreading of Abominations (all future sins on Christ) He shall make it desolate or Jesus has to die, Even unto the Consummation, And that being determined shall be poured upon the Desolate,

Jesus is the Desolate, with mankind in the Body, and upon the Body of Christ the Consummation or all mankind consumed in Righteousness:

(ISAIAH 10:22) For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the
sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed
shall overflow with righteousness. (KJV)

Old Heaven is Sunset to Midnight, Old Earth is Midnight to Sunrise (this is also Outer Darkness) Heaven and Earth flee from His Face, seen as the Face of a man on the third beast with 6-wings which is Sunrise to noon. Third seal is the Black Horse. the Judgment.

Third angel sounds, Star falls, Stars are for signs, it is the Sign of the Judgment falling on Jesus. Name of the Star is Wormwood:

(AMOS 5:7) Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off
righteousness in the earth, (KJV)

Because heaven and earth flee from His Face, the first two 6-hour periods are removed as they are fulfilled, so it is now the Great WHITE throne of Judgment.

On and one, piece by piece. Goats seen as hairs in Song of Solomon 4:1, Sheep as teeth in 4:2, Face being painted in Scripture, all happens from Sunrise to noon, So when they pluck the hairs from His Face, they just separated the Sheep from the Goats. During the Judgment.

Fourth seal is the Pale Horse, Death followed by Hell as Jesus died and descended into hell.


There is no such thing as the Trinity in Judaism, GREAT, there should not be in Christianity either, It is ERROR. God said He would raise up the Son of David to be His Son, He did not say He would manifest Himself as a man.

(PSALMS 89:34) My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing
that is gone out of my lips. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:35) Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie
unto David. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:36) His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as
the sun before me. (KJV)

Heru, Search EVERYTHING, Accept Nothing TILL you know it is Truth. It does not matter one bit if a Billion claim it is Truth. Search it anyway. Do not build a foundation on what others have told you without you knowing it is correct.

I know of no one who fits the Messiah, other then Jesus, And the timing was right. The ones called the Three wise men, were Bible Students, they knew the prophecies, they knew it would be David’s child born outside wedlock to be Reborn 1,000 years later (Isaiah 60:22).

They knew they were to bring Gold and Incense and to come on Camels, they knew the King of Midian, Ephah, and all they of Sheba were to come, Seen in Isaiah chapter 60, and the Brightness of the Moon was the Sign seen in 60:19.

The prophecies, Most of them are in the Jewish Holy Scriptures, That is what Christians call the Old Testament, Part of our Christian Bible, Jesus is Jewish, The Messiah was to be Jewish.

The Old Testament books that were accepted and put into print for us today do not contain all of the Books the Jewish Nation may call Sacred. But God multiplies Visions, So we should have most of the concepts covered, Enough to show God exists, and that Jesus is who He sent.

If you have any prophecy not seen in the Old Testament, I would like to know what that prophecy is, and where it is seen in Jewish Scripture?

Ken

Wasnt one of the prophecys he was to be the bloodline of david. And women arnt included in bloodline just men and he was born without a father so how did he fulfill the prophecy on that.

Plus where did u get the son of david from. And how is he the son of god and the son of man. Plus u might have forgotn mathew 24:36 where jesus prophecys about the coming of the son of man. Um if the son of man was there why would he tell people that the son of man will come soon.

And all ur scriptures son dont mean what u think they mean. You add to much to em and twist em to suit what u say.

"(JOB 33:22) Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life
to the destroyers. (KJV)"
Hmm lets read the whole thing and ill help u understand this verse.

Job 33:14 For god does speak - now one way, now another -
(pretty much he speaks in different ways)

Job 33:15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men as they slumber in their beds,
(telling some of the ways god speaks to man)

now lets skip down to the 33:19-21
Or a man may be chastened on a bed of pain with constant distress in his bones,
so that his very being finds food repulsive and his soul loathes the choicest meal.
His flesh wastes away to nothing and his bones, once hidde, now stick out
(this one that ties in with your verse 22 is a long one on how god may speak to a
man to turn him from his ways Read verse 30 and itll explain it all)


I realy dont feel like typing all of 33 so try rereading for yourself instead of reading one verse. But ill give u some advice. Dont read a passage and think you know what it means. Read the whole book or atleast the whole chapter to gain understanding of a single word.
Even in jr high we use to translate the old testiment from hebrew just so we can better understand it.
I live in the buckle of the bible belt. Grew up around ORU, Rhema and a few other churches u might not have heard of even knew there pastors and hung out with there kids. Even carman shot a video at my school (ya that was some fun).
And had to copy 3 books from the bible each time I had detention(which was alot).
And copied mathew I dont know how many times in study hall.

Where you leanred christianity from I dont know but you need to find a new pastor. Cause you lost the whole point of job(was my favorite book)

Heru.

The promise of the Messiah is to David, that God would raise up his son which SHALL proceed out of his bowels. The sons of David that he had BEFORE the promise in 2-Samuel 7:11/14 are excluded. SHALL is a future event. The Messiah would build David a House. Solomon is excluded. For God would raise up this Child AFTER David was dead. And Solomon became King while David was still alive.

Here is the Promise to David:

(2SAMUEL 7:11) And as since the time that I commanded judges to be
over my people Israel, and have caused thee to rest from all thine
enemies. Also the Lord telleth thee that he will make thee an house. (KJV)
(2SAMUEL 7:12) And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep
with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall
proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. (KJV)
(2SAMUEL 7:13) He shall build an house for my name, and I will
stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever. (KJV)
(2SAMUEL 7:14) I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he
commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with
the stripes of the children of men: (KJV)

Just after the promise, David took Uriah the Hittite’s wife, and she conceived. Bathsheba bore David a son. God sent a prophet to David and gave David a parable about taking Bathsheba:

(2SAMUEL 12:4) And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he
spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for
the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's
lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him. (KJV)

David at this point had many wives. But he took Bathsheba to prepare for the WAYFARING man who had come unto David, The Prophecy for the Christ is WHO has come unto David. Jesus is the Wayfaring man.

(JEREMIAH 14:8) O the hope of Israel, the saviour thereof in time
of trouble, why shouldest thou be as a stranger in the land, and as
a wayfaring man that turneth aside to tarry for a night? (KJV)

All the Prophecies in the Old Testament speaking of the Messiah, the Christ. And Jesus fulfilling those Prophecies show Jesus is the son of David raised to be the Son of God. There is NO Genealogy for Mary. Both go to Joseph which means his mother’s first husband died. Leaving no child, so a brother or next of kin took her for a wife, and Joseph is seed raised up to the dead first husband, Giving Joseph two different Genealogies. One Physical, One under the law for the inheritance so the land stays within the Family.

Mary does not have to be of the Seed of David, the Child DOES.

God struck the Child which died 7 days after Birth. That was about 1004 B.C., 1,000 years later in a manger in Bethlehem, a Child is laid in the Manger. Shown as the Firstbegotten of the dead in Revelation 1:5, and a PRINCE of the Kings of the Earth. Jesus went to the Cross as a KING (Psalms 2:6/7) But all of King David’s sons were a Prince.

God used a 100 year generation when speaking of the Children in Egypt. At the end of four generations He would visit them, that was 400 years. Under the law, a Child born outside wedlock can not enter the Congregation even till His tenth Generation. (Deuteronomy 23:2) Or for 1,000 years. They enter at age 12.

(ISAIAH 60:22) A little one shall become a thousand, and a small
one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time. (KJV)

Jesus has to be the Physical Son of David raised by God to be the Son of God as God said in 2-Samuel 7:11/14 and swore in His Holiness not to alter those words to David:

(PSALMS 89:34) My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing
that is gone out of my lips. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:35) Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie
unto David. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:36) His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as
the sun before me. (KJV)
(PSALMS 89:37) It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as
a faithful witness in heaven. Selah. (KJV)

The one child born unto David that would not be considered by most. The one God chose, a stumbling block to many. A stone which the Builders rejected.

Matthew 24 is speaking of end times. That is the day of the cross made as 7 days in Isaiah 30:26. Which only fits the day of the cross as it is when God heals them.

The day is made as three pictures, the first as 4 6-hour periods like 4 beasts with 6-wings. The first 6-hours is sunset to Midnight, which is Old Heaven, Midnight to sunrise is Old Earth, Heaven and Earth flee from His Face seen as the Face of a man on the third beast with 6-wings which is New Earth. Noon to sunset is New Heaven.

The Jewish nation is sealed from seeing Jesus is the Messiah in Isaiah 29:10/12, as a DEEP SLEEP as God sealed their instructions, that they should Crucify Jesus.

(ISAIAH 29:10) For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of
deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your
rulers, the seers hath he covered. (KJV)
(ISAIAH 29:11) And the vision of all is become unto you as the
words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is
learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot;
for it is sealed: (KJV)

When Jesus is hanging on the Cross, All His bones would stick out.

(JOB 33:19) He is chastened also with pain upon his bed, and the
multitude of his bones with strong pain: (KJV)
(JOB 33:20) So that his life abhorreth bread, and his soul dainty
meat. (KJV)
(JOB 33:21) His flesh is consumed away, that it cannot be seen; and
his bones that were not seen stick out. (KJV)
(JOB 33:22) Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life
to the destroyers. (KJV)
(JOB 33:23) If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one
among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness: (KJV)
(JOB 33:24) Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him
from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom. (KJV)

Jesus is hanging on the cross in 33:22. The prophecy for the one called the Good Thief (Jesus has all sin) Telling him that “Today, Thou shall be with Me in Paradise.” Because Jesus needed one person to stand up for Him, and there is a Pardon seen in Jeremiah 5:1, Jesus would not have to die.

BUT, The one called the Good thief changed his testimony, and reviled Jesus also, So there is no pardon, Jesus has to die and go into hell.

(MATTHEW 27:44) The thieves also, which were crucified with him,
cast the same in his teeth. (KJV)

(PSALMS 142:4) I looked on my right hand, and beheld, but there was
no man that would know me: refuge failed me; no man cared for my
soul. (KJV)

I know of Rhema. I have written quite a few letters to them, they do not write back.

God is REAL, Jesus is REAL. They can answer more questions then a Pastor can.

(DEUTERONOMY 32:12) So the Lord alone did lead him, and there was
no strange god with him. (KJV)

If you seek Christ from a Pastor, God may allow that. But why use a Middle man? Every Bible comes with a Holy Spirit Tutor, Just open your heart to Him.

Job was your favorite Book, Good, Job has many questions asked, From Job and By God.

The day of the cross is seen as 7 time periods or days, Job just happens to have 7 sons, the day is seen as 3 pictures, Job just happens to have 3 Daughters. The day of the cross is as a House built.

(PROVERBS 9:1) Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her
seven pillars: (KJV)

(JOB 39:6) Whose house I have made the wilderness, and the barren
land his dwellings. (KJV)

The Name of the House is the Wilderness, Where Jesus was taken by the Spirit to be tempted, or taken to the day of the cross and shown what He would have to go through.. Then give 42 months to continue, goes back and three and a half years teaches His Disciples THINGS which must shortly come to pass, or that he would have to be delivered to be Crucified.

The first picture is as 4 6-hour periods, this is the four corners of the Earth.

So in Job, the Wind comes out of the Wilderness, and Smites the Four Corners of the House. And kills the 7 sons and 3 daughters. This is looking at the day of the cross.

SO:

(JOB 38:4) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the
earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. (KJV)

The Lamb is slain from the Foundation of the World, Jesus is on a cross outside Jerusalem.

The Beginning is of the New World, the Creation story is looking at the day of the cross as 7 days. Sunset to Midnight, the First day. “Let there be Light”: I am the True Vine, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, In My Father’s House are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for You. HOW IS THAT for LIGHT?

The First angel sounds, there is Fire, hail, mingled with Blood. God’s word like as a fire in Jeremiah 23:29. as Jesus pours out God’s Word. Hail is Judas saying “Hail Master.” as he kisses Him (kiss the Son lest He be angry) In Job it asks if you have seen the Treasure of the HAIL? Mingled with blood as Peter cuts off the ear.

The people as waters, Jesus as the ARK, the people lift up the ARK. And as Matthew 24 says, AS the Days of Noe. Which is a Similitude for the day of the cross.

Ken

Ken:
I am not going to get into the debates we have had in the past but when you go from this:
The promise of the Messiah is to David, that God would raise up his son which SHALL proceed out of his bowels.

Then 41 paragraphs later you end up talking about this:

The people as waters, Jesus as the ARK, the people lift up the ARK. And as Matthew 24 says, AS the Days of Noe. Which is a Similitude for the day of the cross.

Tends to throw some people off about you and they ignore you. If you keep it shorter and stay on topic you will reach more people.

Posted with respect

I'm not very smart . but this is what I know
there is no such thing as being reincarnated.
if you belive in christ acept that he paid the price for you sins then and only then do you get to go to heaven. it very simple. we on our own can't do it when we die as believer we go to heaven those who aren't go to hell. it's a choice we make here on earth life with christ everlasting or eternal damnation. throw all that other junk in the garbage where it belongs.

Welcome Bornblond to the UM forum!

This is not the right section for this kind of post and the MODs take a dim view of this type of post.

Very interesting question. I like when people think outside the box. I don't know what the scriptures on reincarnation said because they were removed. But I don't think that it was a form of eternal life in God's eyes. To me it is (I see the soul as transcending time). Eternal life in my opinion, was being with God in the spiritual sense, having sorrow taken away.
I only say this because I believe that everyone can reincarnate, devout Christian or not.

Me too I agree...I find it hard to believe that God will only accept you, if you are saved...God loves all even if you are a non believer...it is very selfish to think and claim that he will only reincarnate those that are saved...by saying that people..you are saying God discriminates and is selfish...devote yourself to me or there is no hope for you

Actually it seems there is scripture which can being percieved as reincarnation. I think its about perception but here is an example of a scripture that people take two ways;

In this episode jesus is referring to john the Baptist....
Matt 11:13-14
For all the prophets and the law have prophesized until John and if you are willing to recieve it, he is Elijah who was to come."

"And the disciples asked him, saying, 'why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?' But he answered them and said, 'Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the son of man suffer at their hand.'"

"Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of john the Baptist."

i find this interesting and also the fact that Elijah had beheaded another and john the Baptist was put to death by being beheaded....it would fit into karma.
There are other passages that people argue which are fasinating. it said that the orginal teaching of judiaism and christianity was that of reincarnation and was what resurrection meant. however it is said that this belief of resurrection changed through persian influence and the fact that they believe resurrection meant resurrected from the dead which is different than reincarnation.

i believe in reincarnation which is not widely accepted by the church but....I also think many things taught are that of another's perception of scripture.

I really don't care where I end up, just as long as where ever it is I can be "all knowing." Damnit, I want to know what is under the Sphinx, what the hell Stonehenge was really built for, and I was to be able to fast foward and rewind time and watch everything that has ever happened (kind of like my own version of the history channel!)

I like what Plato thought about reincarnation. How when we are alive we are in the cave we are ignorant and only recalling things we already know, not learning them. And when we are dead we are outside the cave and in "reality" and know everything.

Though then the only question is, if at one time we know everything what leads people to beleive all these different things! How can you recollect what is not true!

Some people believe Jesus reincarnated. If there is mention of it besides him (John the Baptist, etc) I guess Justinian did a bad job

I believe in immortality in a spirit form after death. Reincarnation is just too farfetched; it would be like living in an amnesia for all eternity. Your very existence would be nothing more than flashes of deja vu or even possibly without a present all together.



~ADHD~

I do believe in reincarnation (and I believe in God) and I do tend to think it ties in with it, just somewhat different. Depends on the circumstances. However, no I don't believe that's what's meant by 'everlasting life'. Mortal life is perishable, that's not really 'everylasting' is it.