I'm sure many of you have noticed the rising gas prices. I started thinking. With hybrid cars becoming more popular, is it possible that in a few years, a good portion of the cars on the roads will be hybrids? Could this be the reason the government is letting gas prices soar unchecked? The fear of the hold that oil has on us diminishing?

I heard on the news the other day that when government officials were asked about gas prices, the response was basically, "Get used to it". Do you think the fear of the government losing some oil money is what's allowing oil prices to go up every day?

Maybe Bush Sr- who has extensive oil industry connections is hoping to get some last bit of quick money before the bottom falls out of the energy monopoly that oil has?

Hmm, yet another angle I didn't consider. Thank you, Stewey.

I think oil prices are going up constantly because we now know we only have 40 more years of oil, more or less, and we therefore it is becoming rarer.

Less of something, it costs more.

Yeah, supply and demand would be a factor.

The oil supply from the middle east is controlled by OPEC. When OPEC cuts production, the price per barrel goes up. Countries that import oil have to pay the market price. When the oil is refined and distributed in the US, some states require a minimum mark up - Wisconsin requires that gasoline be marked up 6 cents a gallon over wholesale price.

Also, all states have a hefty gas tax.

OPEC knows that every nation on the planet needs oil - so they can charge what ever they want for a barrel, and they know that they will get it.

Until other fuels are discovered or we reduce our need to import oil by drilling domestically, we are at the mercy of the middle eastern oil producing countries.

And it's obvious to any intellegent person that the US, in an effort to support their war in Iraq, are taking a kick-back from oil companies here, etc.

There is that, certainly. One should also keep in mind that oil refineries in the US are operating at more than 90% of theoretical capacity. In real terms, that means that they are squeezing out all the gasoline and other petroleum fuels they can. More oil would not be processed, and would do little or no good at this stage. Eco-whackos have been responsible for this state of affairs, successfully preventing any new refineries from coming on line for a long time now. In the meantime, our population grows, and more fuel is needed. Eco-whackos have also been successful in preventing any development of known sources of oil within the US. If you are looking to blame anyone, that is where you should look. As Pogo the Possum said, "We have met the enemy... and he is us."

Ecko whackos?

What the hell do you think you know? How can you assume it is people that care about the environment and refer to them derrogatorily?

Ive heard them blamed before and that is bullsh#t oldtimer. Quit drinking all that duff beer and look behind the smoke and mirrors.

BTW, when Clinton had our economy rolling he kept the gas and oil companies at bay and did not let them raise prices. All this crap lately is nothing more than Bush bailing out Wall t and Enron buddies with these high prices.

We all know how it really works so take that News you read and throw it out the window...its not even fit to wipe your a$$ on.

In the first place The Republican Congress passed legislation signed by Bill Clinton
balancing the budget, etc. But the roaring economy of Clintons years is a testament to the policies of Bush Sr.

Can you stop for a moment and just consider the last sentence of the above quote. Bush doesn't set the oil prices...OPEC does. Bush has no more control over the price of oil than I have over the price of milk at my local grocery store. And exactly how anyway do you think Capitalism works? Do you think the Oil Companies are going to take whatever profits they make and give them to Enron? Or give their profits to WallStreet? Your ignorance of what I thought to be common knowledge is quite astounding. No wonder you think everything is a conspiracy...you have no real working knowledge of our economy or capitalism or anything political. Use your mind man. At least think through some of the things you think you know.



I'm telling you quite sincerely...you are clueless about how it really works.

All this coming from a guy who approves of Anne Coulture and sources her...bah ha ha ha. Like I said before...you and larry are using old versions of defining how the oil and gas prices go up daily. You two are not street smart at all. Those definitions are not true at all and very vague.

You said:

"In the first place The Republican Congress passed legislation signed by Bill Clinton
balancing the budget, etc. But the roaring economy of Clintons years is a testament to the policies of Bush Sr.



I say it was those first two years with his democratic congress that did that and you are mistaken.

Dont worry though joc...Clinton did so good as President for eight years that he must feel used to getting his credit stolen from him by Bush dummy #1 and Bush dummy #2.


Bush dummy #1 was a little smarter but you dont seem to recall that he was behind the Savings and Loan scandal and HUD. That you can not blame Clinton for. Also we were in a depression caused by Bush I when Clinton took over. I hate it when you lie outright.

Dont you know by now you cannot use your weak Anne Coulture mind tricks on me? They dont even come close to working.

I'm sorry dmgspycat, but I can no longer continue any political discussions with you.

Please continue your paranoid diatribes by yourself.

It is hard to recall why he [Jimmy Carter] was so despised when he ws in office. Much of it has to do with the secret history of oil politics. Even during the 1976 election campaign, the oil companies viewed the Democratic candidate as Public Enemy Number One. Carter certainly had some radical ides about energy policy, which made the oil companies fearful for the future and their profit levels.” (Ibid.; p. 333.)

20. “ ‘The whole phony scheme—the oil shortages, the predictions about Soviet troops in the Middle East, the Saudi arms buildup—all of that crap started coming out of the agency back in ’76. The CIA told their boss what he wanted to hear, and in those days, the head of the CIA was an oil man.’” (Ibid.; p. 334.)

21. “According to several of our sources, the scheme to manufacture phony CIA estimates and push them on Carter began in the last days of Gerald Ford’s term. They claim that a cabal within the CIA realized that Carter would be the new president, produced the first phony report, and then promptly gave it to Carter as soon as he won, knowing how it would affect his view of the energy crisis. It should be recalled that George Bush was the director of the CIA at the time the oil scam was put in place in 1976. There is some evidence to suggest that it was Bush himself who passed the fake oil estimates to Carter. In the immediate aftermath of Carter’s win, Bush traveled to Plains, Georgia, to brief the incoming president.” (Ibid.; pp. 334-335.)

22. “ ‘Don’t you get it?” asked one of our sources. ‘The gas shortage during the Carter administration was as phony as the CIA’s prediction about the Soviet oil shortage. The god damn Middle East was swimming in oil during the Carter administration, but less and less of it ws shipped to America. For chrissakes, there was so much oil in South America that they had to shut down refineries I the Caribbean to keep it away from the U.S.” (Ibid.; p. 353.)

23. “Under the Republicans, lucrative arms factories sprouted in what had previously been rural democratic states. The votes went where the jobs were. In the course of the Reagan-Bush administrations, the defense budget was increased to a point where more money was spent on arms than in all the wars in U.S. history combined. To accomplish this massive defense buildup, the Reagan-Bush adminstrations borrowed three times more money than all U.S. presidents combined The largest debt in American history was based on the faulty premise that the Soviet Union was going to attack the Middle East.” (Ibid.; p. 355.)


www.spitfirelist.com/f420.html

...and so he does....

First, I traded vehicles 37 months ago to go from 25 mpg to 40 mpg.

Question. If refineries are operating at near capacity, shouldn't there be a gas station somewhere that is temporarily without fuel to sell?

--

Oil is traded in dollars, the dollar has fallen.

Oil is traded in the open market, most people have a bias that the price is going up so buyers out number sellers.

If the US can find an intelligent way out of Iraq (thus removing uncertainty) and if others around the world have taken action similar to mine above, then the ability to make a killing shorting (selling what you don't own) oil will be the best in a generation.

There's so much money and political influence tied up in the oil industry, one can't help wondering whether there's been deliberate supression of alternative means of fuelling cars and, indeed, energy generation in general. After all, if we can run a car on tapwater, a lot of oil companies are gonna quickly go out of business....

Maybe the realisation is that either a) we're soon going to run out of oil anyway, lets make as much money while we can or b ) 'they' can't supress alternative technology for much longer, so, again, lets make our money while we can.

Or it might simply be increased demand in developing nations that's pushing up prices.....

I would have to say it's a combination of Supply/Demand, and the fact that technology that is more environmentally friendly are becoming easier and cheaper to produce for public consumption- and becoming popular at the same time.

Question:

Where do you think the largest amount of gasoline is stored?

This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone in the know. Should have listened to me earlier, all you skeptics. You could be making big money on oil stocks. My dad already has, since I told him months ago, oil was about to dramitically increase in price.

Everything is moving along right on schedule.

Henry Kissenger was heard saying oil will rise $150 - $250 in the next two years.

Read about the 2005 Bilderberg meeting where this is discussed by the worlds elite.

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...405estulin.html

The world in the palm of their hands: Bilderberg 2005

By Daniel Estulin

Energy

"An American Bilderberger expressed concern over the skyrocketing price of oil. One oil industry insider at the meeting remarked that growth is not possible without energy and that, according to all indicators, the world's energy supply is coming to an end much faster than the world leaders have anticipated. According to sources, Bilderbergers estimate the extractable world's oil supply to be at a maximum of 35 years under current economic development and population. However, one of the representatives of an oil cartel remarked that we must factor into the equation, both the population explosion and economic growth and demand for oil in China and India. Under the revised conditions, there is apparently only enough oil to last for 20 years. No oil spells the end of the world's financial system. So much has already been acknowledged by The Wall Street Journal and the Financial Times, two periodicals who are regularly present at the annual Bilderberg conference.

Conclusion: Expect a severe downturn in the world's economy over the next two years as Bilderbergers try to safeguard the remaining oil supply by taking money out of people's hands. In a recession or, at worst, a depression, the population will be forced to dramatically cut down their spending habits, thus ensuring a longer supply of oil to the world's rich as they try to figure out what to do.

During the afternoon cocktail, European Bilderberger noted that there is no plausible alternative to hydrocarbon energy. One American insider stated that currently the world uses between four and six barrels of oil for every new barrel it finds and that the prospects for a short-term breakthrough are slim, at best.

Someone asked for an estimate of the world´s accessible conventional oil supply. The amount was quoted at approximately one trillion barrels. As a side note of interest, the planet consumes a billion barrels of oil every 11.5 days.

Another Bilderberger asked about hydrogen alternative to the oil supply. The US government official agreed, gloomily, that hydrogen salvation to the world´s imminent energy crisis is a fantasy.

This confirms public statement made in 2003 by HIS, the world´s most respected consulting firm cataloguing oil reserves and discoveries, that for the first time since the 1920s there was not a single discovery of an oil field in excess of 500 million barrels.

The oil industry at the 2005 Bilderberg conference was represented by John Browne, BP´s chief executive officer; John Kerr, director Royal Dutch Shell; Peter D. Sutherland, BP chairman and Jeroen van der Veer, chairman of the Committee of Managing Directors of Royal Dutch Shell.

It should be remembered that in late 2003, oil giant Royal Dutch Shell, announced that it had overstated its reserved by as much as 20 percent. Queen Beatrix of Holland, Royal Dutch Shell´s principal shareholder is a full-fledged member of the Bilderbergers. Her father, prince Bernhard was one of the founders of the group back in 1954. The Los Angeles Times reported that "For petroleum firms, reserves amount to nothing less than ´the value of the company.'" In fact, Shell cut its reserve estimates not once, but three times, prompting the resignation of its co-chairman. At Rottach-Egern, in May 2005, industry's top executives tried to figure out how to keep the truth about diminishing oil reserves from reaching the public. Public knowledge of the diminishing reserves directly translates into lower share prices, which could destroy financial markets, leading to a collapse of the world economy."

cont.
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Repor...405estulin.html

Its disgusting and there is no reason for it and like I have already posted...there is always manipulation behind the scenes to drive up prices. In all of your college courses di they ever present a model to you that defined how inside manipulation occurs like in my example of what happened to Jimmy Carter?

Its always in something you have to read on your own time...never is anything offered in college to tell you how the scam is made.

I bet most of you dont even believe the CIA and oil companies caused the gas crisis during Jimmy Carters term. The info is out there just stop believing that left / right BS and see it for what it is.

Bottom line is economic models of how oil prices work are not reliable.

Its like taking the time to read a horse racing form...pretty hard actually... but if the race is "fixed" then it really didnt do you any good did it? Now if you know whos fixing the race and you can read a form then you might have a chance.

Hope you liked my little analogy...learning to read a racing form was harder than any statistics course I ever took...lol

You went to college? Well, that explains everything!




The answer: the largest reserve of gasoline is to be found...in the cars that people own.

Conspiracy theories are just that. Look at what can be proven.

The law of Supply and Demand is a basic tenet of economics. America for many years has been the major importer of oil. Now you have two huge burgeoning economies in India and China. Both countries have more than a billion in population. These countries import oil from the same sources that we do. China is growing at leaps and bounds. I saw a few weeks ago that within two years China would have as many cars on the road as the US does. Of course this is going to effect crude oil prices. Futures traders basically set the price per barrel on supply and demand. Just think if you have 3 countries sucking up as much oil as the US does. Is that not going to economically effect the price? Common sense. But, no it is easier to believe that one man is making oil companies richer......

Pfft!!!

Wiking

You sound angry with me, Wiking.

I like Bush, and feel he has done alot to help protect this country. But the bottem line is he is the oil problem, he's family is in the oil bussiness and he has tie's to all these people, I fear oil will not go back down untill we get a new leader.

You just don't want to face the facts that we are indeed in a crisis. Suck it in.

Exactly Isis and Im not being partisan about this but I think he should recuse himself from the Presidency because of his inside affiliation with the oil community and the CIA through his father.

He and Cheney are cashing in and republicans dont see it? I think there were far better republicans than him to choose but Ill take it a step further and state that he is perfect to ruin America and sell us out to greedy corporate freinds like Haliburton. Say it aint so.

No. I do not even pay attention to who posts what. But, yes I am getting angry at people who always see some sinister force behind what happens. An international economic and finance course would do more for people than CNN, FOX, MSNBC, SIMPSONS...

Case and point...




Bush and Cheney determine the price of oil per barrel? I guess it is Bush and Cheney too who have caused building materials to skyrocket over the past few years??? Steel prices have jumped in the recent past. Why? Because, China is buying up steel like there is no tomorrow. Take a look at skyscrapers and see what cities have the most. Plywood prices went up. Bush and Cheney must be hording the wood filler......not the train of hurricanes that came through last year. Gas prices are going to jump again. You bet, Bush and Cheney hired Katrina to smack New Orleans around. 1/3 of US oil goes through ports there. The US is not the center of the world anymore (as much as I will miss that). More and more the world becomes much more interdependent upon others economies.

It is fascinating seeing the way the world is growing. How countries who once were afterthoughts now have the tallest buildings in the world. Bush and Cheney do not hold the keys to world.

Regards,

Wiking

I just heard on CNN that gas prices could go up by $.40 by wendesday in the US due to the hurricane that came through the gulf. That doesn't make sense to me. The oil produced in the gulf is just a drop in the hat of the oil produced around the world. So is this just being used an excuse by those in higher places? Just curious as to your thoughts on the subject..

I don't know about that, but here in FL at least, gas prices skyrocket before and during hurricanes. But that's the companies' greed. What sucks is that during an evacuation, the prices will go up sometimes a dollar per gallon. While it's illegal to price gouge during times of crisis (which here, include hurricanes), they still do it. The reason? The profits they make far outweigh any fines they incur.

Oil all arround the world has gone up, not just the US I heard The Netherlands has the highest oil price in the world.

It's time to start freezing your engine for better gas milelage. All I need now is a cryogenics expert and a frozen tank of nitrogen...

Note to self: Make new friend--David Hutchison of Missouri

There is, unfortunately, such a thing as demand and supply. Demand for fuels now is not far below the ability of oil refineries to produce them. Thus, while there are not many shortages right now, we are on the edge of such a thing happening. Housing prices have also been going up rather rapidly, and Greenspan is talking about a "bubble". No way. Why? Because demand for housing has been also on the verge of exceeding supply, and in a number of areas has done so. In case you eco-whackos haven't noticed, the population of the US has been growing for a long time now, constantly. This will without question increase the demand for housing, fuel, and other commodities. Back in the 1950s or so, the planners in both government and the private sector were busy figuring out ways to meet the future needs of the citizens. That thinking almost disappeared by the 1970s, with the new and idiotic concept that if there are no new anything useful, there will be no demand for anything useful. I.e., if we don't build new roads, people will start using other (whatever they might be) methods of transportating themselves. All that happened was that highways got further and further congested, and we are a long way behind having what is needed. Now, it is doubtful that we will ever catch up. In the same way, the eco-whackos have prevented new housing from being built, with the expected happening . . . existing housing stock is being bid up, due to shortages. With an increase in population, new housing is not a luxury, that people can do without, but a necessity. In the same way, new transportation facilities are needed for more people, and so called public transit simply doesn't work for enough people to make any inroads. I see that Washington State is finally coming to their senses, and have converted the first "high-occupancy" vehicle highway lane back to a general purpose lane. The eco-whacko scheme simply didn't work. The long and the short of it is, people have to have a place to live, have to have shelter, have to have food and water, and have to have a way to go to work. If government puts roadblocks in the way of any of these things, with an ever expanding population there will be shortages and prices will keep going up. Government forced restraints on supply will push prices up as readily, actually more so, as any monopoly scheme ever could or did. When did the last oil refinery go on line in the US? The last refinery built in the US was in Garyville, Louisiana, and it started up in 1976. Need I remind you that fuel needs and consumption has gone up markedly since then? What did you eco-whackos think would happen? That some magical government fairy would wave a wand, and eliminate the laws of thermodynamics? A hint for you is that the population of the US in 2000 was 54 million more than in 1980, and 1976 was before 1980, and 2005 after 2000. Do the arithmetic, if indeed you know how.

Great point!! The government red-tape and enviornmentalist lobby kills any plan a company has about building a new refinery. One to be built back in the late 70's was dropped after many years of court battles the company said "screw it" and pulled it's plan. Local residents too contribute to this. Refineries ideally want to be close to the water. Like on the Gulf Coast where there is a collection of oil refineries. Would you rather see a hotel, condo, beach house or a huge refinery?

The National Petrochemicals and Refiners Association report said that refinery production rose only 3% from 1999 to 2002. In that same time frame what rate did oil consumption rise? The Hummer alone could make for a 1% increase...LOL (j/k) The lack of refineries in the US, tax on gas, environmental concerns on the gas product and price of crude all play part in out current price situation.

Heck we import gasoline from Europe because it is cheaper to do that than refine crude here.

Regards,

Wiking

You misconstrue the point that Bush and Cheney are corporate tools who have business interests to look out for and not the Nations best interests. They will not lift a finger to help...just like they didnt step in and help California Energy crisis when they could have but if memory serves me it was Cheney and energy colleagues on tape talking about their dirty plans to rip off California. On tape.

You know what fascinates me Wiking? How people cant see crime because they are blinded by partisan rhetoric and propaganda.

Bottom line is gas prices do not have to be this high and there are a number of things an honest President could do to help his citizens. Bush resents America because most Americans know about him and his deciet. Bush knows the real poll numbers and hates us for it. Republicans are a minority since civil rights and still are and if it wasnt for voter fraud, Bush wouldnt even be an issue today.

Larry Old Timer...environmentalists are not all whackos and I seriously doubt your pointof view on this...simple answer...has anything ever gotten in the way of the oil cartels in this country? Hell no...they helped assassinate Kennedy when he got in thier way(funding).

I seriously doubt that a bunch of "ecko whackos" would stop these crooks from the opportunity to sell us more gas by building another refinery.

You have no answer to the crisis other than lashing out at a handful of people who are trying to do something about harmful petro. emmisions. More could be done and it is only a one time cost + maintenance...but no more harmful mercury in the air etc.

I agree with you that the population is getting bigger than what the system can handle but the answer is not to continue down this path...look where it has lead us.

Alternative energy is the answer and there are very efficient ways and means to do it. They could have been implemented long ago but for the oil cartels and thier powerful lobbyists.

What that means though...is that they would get cut from the take...oil is like a drug for this country, and it has a bad addiction to it...and like a bad drug it takes a while to "ween" yourself from it. Imagine..."grid" free neighborhoods.

So besides bashing "greens" what is your big theory on the energy crisis.

If you really are an old timer then you should remember the manufactered gas crisis in the 1970's? Sounds familiar today eh? lol

But you have these clueless pigs who have unlimited credit cards that still insist on driving their Humvees, Escalades,V8 Explorers, Lincolns. Gods below even the car companies are not helping when a Ford V6 in a Ranger or Explorer gets 20 mpg. That is what my 1980 350 chevy pick up gets and only when I tow my horse trailer. I think that people that drive these slobs aren't gonna wake up till they are sent to Iraq to fight for their own gas and that is what should happen to them! This is what the war is about GAS. I am sick of hearing the words 'terrorist' and 'Iraq' in the same sentence. What crap!:angry:

lapi'che ni'tis

Are you jealous of the rich Piney? Sounds like it. You refer to successful people as 'clueless pigs'. Why?

What does Anne say joc?lol

I own 300 acres of blueberry fields and cranberry bogs. I own ten horses and drive a new silverado. If you noticed I said unlimited credit cards, not unlimited money. I just don't waste unesscesarily.
The urban sprawlers around me who drive such trash are the same idiots that have interest pay only mortages. I own my home and my land not some bank

lapiche

I noticed on your old signature a veterans cemetary behind you. Did you fight?
I have a killer toybox that u Republicans would love ( AND I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT)

Oh, sorry, I confused 'egotism' with jealousy. No, I didn't fight in a war...fortunately Reagan so terrified the Iranians that it wasn't necessary...but I was planning on it...and I would have. And I like your toybox.

F**** A when you are the only one in your township without a mortgage or a truck payment and you donate your first harvest profit to your tribal center for charity and to fund your tribal powwow I will be the first to admit I have a big farmer/landowner ego around these woods........................

it's in the blood honest

lapi'che nit'is

You know what they say: Pride goeth before a fall.

Anyway...back to the topic at hand.......

.................

Specifically the lack of refineries in the US....looks like wiking is doing a bit of homework for us.

Blinded by partisan rhetoric? I have said nothing about partisanship. Bascailly the fact that people want to blame one person for something that is affecting the whole world is what I am ranting against. It seems to me that people are blinded by their hate for Bush that they let the logical thought process flitter away with the butterflys.



Let's hear your ideas on how gas prices can be stabilized.


LOL!!!!! I just saw this and had to edit...



No, it was Bush and Cheney!!! I enjoyed our discussion on the gas situation, but with statements like that... My even wanting to read your posts is gone as I will guess all your statements will be back by anything but facts.


Regards,

Wiking

i went to the ol pump this morning, i havea toyota celica 2002.

ive been a good little boy in the way that i have had a half a tank for two weeks, i just filled it up today.

it cost me 7 gal of gas $24.00 american. be fore it olny cost me $10 to get a half a tank. yes 24 dollars for a half a tank.........

this morning it was 2.63 a gal this afternoon it will be 3.09 a gal.

Here, it's already up to $3.89 at some stations. Up from yesterday's $2.65.

You can't forget that now China's economy's rolling, so they need more gas. At first they were only taking in about 3 million barrels, and now they are taking in 8 million.

Give or take.

Yesterday here it was $2.59 and today it is $3.39 in some places and many places in Raleigh are running out gas or limiting the amount you can buy at once.

Hey, I didn't know it was that bad in raleigh (I live in chapel Hill).

the Free busing in Chapel Hill is great