Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums > OBEs- A Scientific Explanation. Finally.

Mr Ed

Aug 27 2005, 12:06 PM

This is an extract that I have typed out from The Times newspaper in England. One of the most respected Broadsheets. Manchester University is one of Britians best Universities.

QUOTE

Studies say that about one in ten of us has found ourselves floating outside our bodies; but Manchester University researches claim that the bizarre episodes have a more down-to earth explanation. They suspect that anxiety about one's looks can trigger the paranormal experiences and have put a questionnaire on the web to record people's expeirences.
''We are asking people about their bodies, how often they look at themselves in the mirror and questions about their self esteem,'' says the researcher David Wilde...
Several theories suggest that the phenomenon can happen when the brian loses touch with sensory data from the body.

I don't think that many of you will be happen with this possible explanation.

Looks like it comes down to looks. So, if you have OBEs it may be because you are insecure about your appearence.

This may not be the answer, but it is a far better one than any people on this site have provided so far.

Megalomania

Aug 27 2005, 12:55 PM

So this is supporting the theory that OBE's are real?
Or is it proof that they are real?

LuciaUruguay

Aug 27 2005, 02:27 PM

Yeah, at least they probe that the experiences ARE reall and that people is not allucinating.
But as a begining is ok, but in my case, I have very low self esteem (wich I am recovering very slowly) and I dont have any OBE, I have psychic stuff but not that one.
But is interesting because the psycologue I went to watch my case and confirm that I was not crazy told me that people with health problems (lots of them) and not very sociable have the tendence to have psychic stuff. Thats a good explanation, I had several sikness and I am not "the" sociable woman so, thats why I have this psychic stuff

So, maybe thats a good explanation

At least I am happy that medical science is taking these matters very seriously

different

Aug 27 2005, 08:11 PM

QUOTE(LuciaUruguay @ Aug 27 2005, 09:27 AM)

At least I am happy that medical science is taking these matters very seriously

[right][snapback]812614[/snapback][/right]

ditto

Mr Ed

Aug 27 2005, 08:19 PM

Yes, taking them seriously. However, the proof is pointing that the experiences are only real as a dream is real...

Turtle

Aug 27 2005, 08:44 PM

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Aug 27 2005, 08:06 AM)

This is an extract that I have typed out from The Times newspaper in England. One of the most respected Broadsheets. Manchester University is one of Britians best Universities.

QUOTE

Studies say that about one in ten of us has found ourselves floating outside our bodies; but Manchester University researches claim that the bizarre episodes have a more down-to earth explanation. They suspect that anxiety about one's looks can trigger the paranormal experiences and have put a questionnaire on the web to record people's expeirences.
''We are asking people about their bodies, how often they look at themselves in the mirror and questions about their self esteem,'' says the researcher David Wilde...
Several theories suggest that the phenomenon can happen when the brian loses touch with sensory data from the body.

I don't think that many of you will be happen with this possible explanation.

Looks like it comes down to looks. So, if you have OBEs it may be because you are insecure about your appearence.

This may not be the answer, but it is a far better one than any people on this site have provided so far.
[right][snapback]812518[/snapback][/right]

Isn't this the same "respected" newspaper that penned the story of Dr. Rothchild, the famed antiquities professor from the same prestegious university that after a 10 year study, proclaimed that Jesus and the deciples at the last supper on Mt. Zion, did not break bread, but instead had pizza, and it was delivered?5 cheese pizzas, and one with pepperoni.
Dr. Rothschild also uncovered that the pizza was also delivered, and Jesus himself tipped the pizza delivery guy, saying the now famous quote "take this in rememberance of me"

Megalomania

Aug 28 2005, 12:34 AM

LOL.... Turtle, are you serious?

muddyfrog

Aug 28 2005, 02:54 AM

I have had an OBE...
It was when i was about 9 and I was very sick.
I had a 103 fever for about 3 days.
Anyway I was lying there on my back and then I started floating. All the way to the ceiling. Then I turn over and see myself lying there on the couch with my coke on the table next to me and the carpet and everything. I felt my back on the ceiling pressing up against it. Then Igot scared and sort of willed it to stop

The End.

As far as that explanation goes I used to have no self esteem and i did sometimes get feelings of being "not me". I sometimes randomly felt beside or behind myself.

BUT i did not see myself as I was still In my body just felt like I wasnt.
I think it is a potential explanation, though.

Turtle

Aug 28 2005, 02:56 AM

QUOTE(Replacement100 @ Aug 27 2005, 08:34 PM)

LOL.... Turtle, are you serious?

[right][snapback]813350[/snapback][/right]

It is true. The only inaccuracy, was that Dr. Rothschild was from the Famed Femlingham University. Sorry for the inaccuracy.
I forgot to add that they determined that the pepperoni pizza was for Jonas.

Piney

Aug 28 2005, 03:12 AM

QUOTE(Turtle @ Aug 27 2005, 10:56 PM)

QUOTE(Replacement100 @ Aug 27 2005, 08:34 PM)

LOL.... Turtle, are you serious?

[right][snapback]813350[/snapback][/right]

It is true. The only inaccuracy, was that Dr. Rothschild was from the Famed Femlingham University. Sorry for the inaccuracy.
I forgot to add that they determined that the pepperoni pizza was for Jonas.

[right][snapback]813529[/snapback][/right]

Thats Judas....and he got anchovies and mushrooms Peter had pepperoni

Turtle

Aug 28 2005, 03:21 AM

QUOTE(Piney @ Aug 27 2005, 11:12 PM)

QUOTE(Turtle @ Aug 27 2005, 10:56 PM)

QUOTE(Replacement100 @ Aug 27 2005, 08:34 PM)

LOL.... Turtle, are you serious?

[right][snapback]813350[/snapback][/right]

It is true. The only inaccuracy, was that Dr. Rothschild was from the Famed Femlingham University. Sorry for the inaccuracy.
I forgot to add that they determined that the pepperoni pizza was for Jonas.

[right][snapback]813529[/snapback][/right]

Thats Judas....and he got anchovies and mushrooms Peter had pepperoni

[right][snapback]813544[/snapback][/right]

I stand corrected!

Thanks Piney

Mr Ed

Aug 28 2005, 09:38 AM

Turtle, that means nothing.

I am going with this theory until it is disproven or a better one comes along.

Turtle

Aug 28 2005, 01:12 PM

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Aug 28 2005, 05:38 AM)

Turtle, that means nothing.

I am going with this theory until it is disproven or a better one comes along.
[right][snapback]814052[/snapback][/right]

My point, MR. Ed, was that not all things are to be believed just because they are in print. That story is ONE persons interpretation of some random information, just like my interpretation is one persons.
I find that once you decide on a truth, you stop seeking the next answer that follows that one.
There is an interesting story in this months magazine Shambala Sun, in case you are interested in further investigation.

Blessings

Piney

Aug 28 2005, 01:30 PM

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Aug 28 2005, 05:38 AM)

Turtle, that means nothing.

I am going with this theory until it is disproven or a better one comes along.
[right][snapback]814052[/snapback][/right]

This theory doesn't work for me. I am the ugliest person I know and I never had one of these experiences. I am a Nanticoke NdN ( SEE TRI- RACIAL) I have a black persons nose and lips, Brown hair and green / yellow eyes ( they can't decide) and NdN yellow skin and have been down on my looks forever. How come this never happened to me. In one of Americas many military actions I got shot to pieces and still nothing happened and if it did I don't remember squat..

lapi'che ni'tis

kthxbye

Aug 28 2005, 02:21 PM

Probably doesn't happen to everyone who has low self esteem Piney, otherwise 99% of the population of high school kids would have them.

Mr Ed

Aug 28 2005, 03:00 PM

I don't think you understand piny. The research isn't saying that all people with low self esteem get them.

It is saying that people who get them tend to have low self esteem.

Don't be down on yourself.

GhostDJR

Aug 29 2005, 02:41 AM

I had one once but I doubt it was because of my self-esteem.
I had stayed up all night and went to the recliner to sleep. While dozing off I felt myself rise up out of my physical body. It was very murcky and everything had an odd tint of brown. I saw my grandmother come in the room and heard her say my name and that's when I woke up. All accidental.
I did have an experince one time though that I did on purpose. I finally got into the right stage of mind and I could acually feel two of me. A limp painful one and a very light feathery one. My eyes were closed and I could see through them and I couldn't breathe as I struggled to get out. I ended up ending the session because I was afraid I was killing myself

. I'm notorias for having un-realistic dreams and these my freind were very real.
Not an argument but you know.

REDFL

Aug 29 2005, 02:14 PM

My OBE was very, very real to me. I was a small child (I *think* around 4 or 5) and had been taken to the doctor on a Sunday because I was so ill (respiratory if I remember correctly). I was to be given a shot and was overwhelmed with anxiety. When the shot was administered I went ballistic and left my body; was above the exam light in the room watching me being comforted by my mother.

There was no way I could have made it up or would have even heard of OBEs at that time in my life. I think as a preschooler I felt pretty ok about myself!

This "medical" explanation makes sense to me.

REDFL

kthxbye

Aug 29 2005, 02:21 PM

Maybe it's your mind trying to make sense of whats going on around you?

Mr Ed

Aug 29 2005, 06:21 PM

QUOTE

There was no way I could have made it up or would have even heard of OBEs at that time in my life. I think as a preschooler I felt pretty ok about myself!

This "medical" explanation makes sense to me.

I am sorry, an anecdote from when you were 4 or 5, you don't actually remember your age, does not count as any proof to me...

muddyfrog

Aug 29 2005, 08:02 PM

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Aug 29 2005, 01:21 PM)

QUOTE

There was no way I could have made it up or would have even heard of OBEs at that time in my life. I think as a preschooler I felt pretty ok about myself!

This "medical" explanation makes sense to me.

I am sorry, an anecdote from when you were 4 or 5, you don't actually remember your age, does not count as any proof to me...
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Mr ed is vicious

But anyway as I said before when I was really really sick I had an Obe

trust me It doesnt matter if it is or isnt real. your brain creates the only reality you can know through your 5 senses.

The whole low selfasteem thing can only makeyou have very minor obe like thinking "why am I me and not him?" "what makes me me?"

and ***Feeling*** beside or behind yourself...

but im no expert

EDIT:
Also numbers are more obscure things to remember for your brain than events...

duh mr Ed

How old are you? Im 18 and a lot of my past is fuzzy on the order of things or ages.
I know the general area; However, I can remember exact smells or feelings k?

Mr Ed

Aug 29 2005, 08:09 PM

QUOTE(muddyfrog @ Aug 29 2005, 08:02 PM)

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Aug 29 2005, 01:21 PM)

QUOTE

There was no way I could have made it up or would have even heard of OBEs at that time in my life. I think as a preschooler I felt pretty ok about myself!

This "medical" explanation makes sense to me.

I am sorry, an anecdote from when you were 4 or 5, you don't actually remember your age, does not count as any proof to me...
[right][snapback]816385[/snapback][/right]

Mr ed is vicious

But anyway as I said before when I was really really sick I had an Obe

trust me It doesnt matter if it is or isnt real. your brain creates the only reality you can know through your 5 senses.

The whole low selfasteem thing can only makeyou have very minor obe like thinking "why am I me and not him?" "what makes me me?"

and ***Feeling*** beside or behind yourself...

but im no expert

EDIT:
Also numbers are more obscure things to remember for your brain than events...

duh mr Ed

How old are you? Im 18 and a lot of my past is fuzzy on the order of things or ages.
I know the general area; However, I can remember exact smells or feelings k?
[right][snapback]816541[/snapback][/right]

I am 17, I am trying to figure out what exactly you are asking me.

GhostDJR

Aug 29 2005, 08:54 PM

He's asking if you remember everything in your past perfectly or is it vauge.

muddyfrog

Aug 30 2005, 04:48 AM

QUOTE(GhostDJR @ Aug 29 2005, 03:54 PM)

He's asking if you remember everything in your past perfectly or is it vauge.
[right][snapback]816607[/snapback][/right]

Uh nope...

Im saying lay off that last guy for not remembering if he was 4 or 5.
He can still remember experiences vividly, numbers are harder for the brain to just remember.

ill give an example to make it more clear...

Try and remember somones face that you havent seen in awile.
Then put it in context imagaine a time you guys spent together. When you do that, you can see their face more clearly.

EDIT: forgot to say this

Look at his experience... Now look at mine...

Notice a pattern? Good

In case you're too lazy to even read my first post I'll restate...

It was when I was VERY SICK that I had an OBE.

Actually look at real evidence.

Ill give you a clue Mr ED Ive noticed this about you; you see an article and then you decide that it is the truth. Then if another were to come out and say otherwize you would say "wrong!"

Do some more research of your own Mr ED. That would be much better than one article.

The way I see It to have OBE from low self esteem, you would have to be almost unfuntional as a person.

Have you ever had one Mr ED??
here are 3 people in this forum giving you causes of OBE. 4 OBEs to be exact.

Review:
-2 from being really sick
-1 from being really tired/dosing off <-----------------for those who dont know dosing off is very similar to meditation.
-1 (on purpose i presume)from "right state of mind"

Which of those is low self esteem?

NONE

Megalomania

Aug 30 2005, 06:03 AM

Mr Ed, chances are it was an approximation...

Mr Ed

Aug 30 2005, 04:51 PM

QUOTE

Im saying lay off that last guy for not remembering if he was 4 or 5.
He can still remember experiences vividly, numbers are harder for the brain to just remember.

No, I am not going to accept an anecdote as evidence if the guy can't even remember his age. Kids imagine stuff anyway.

QUOTE

ill give an example to make it more clear...

Try and remember somones face that you havent seen in awile.
Then put it in context imagaine a time you guys spent together. When you do that, you can see their face more clearly.

I don't care.

QUOTE

Ill give you a clue Mr ED Ive noticed this about you; you see an article and then you decide that it is the truth. Then if another were to come out and say otherwize you would say "wrong!"

No, if you look closely, I mostly said that the scientific explanation makes far more sense, so much more sense that it could blow your mind, than yours and others explanations.
I am sure you have done lots of scientific research though and are an expert on the matter.

QUOTE

Do some more research of your own Mr ED. That would be much better than one article.

No, obviously it wouldn't. The research was done by scientists. I am not a scientist or a dreamer.

QUOTE

The way I see It to have OBE from low self esteem, you would have to be almost unfuntional as a person.

That is very interesting, also a load of nonsense. What do you mean unfunctional? Just because someone has low self esteem and then has what seems to be an OBE doesn't mean that they are unfunctional. It would be good if you defined your use of that word as well.

QUOTE

Review:
-2 from being really sick
-1 from being really tired/dosing off <-----------------for those who dont know dosing off is very similar to meditation.
-1 (on purpose i presume)from "right state of mind"

Which of those is low self esteem?

NONE

Sorry, you are right. Three teenagers on an online forum have just proved my faith in scientific study wrong. You three kids are right, I was sorry to choose some degree of scientific study over you three...Right.

Their explanations are more likely to be true than yours.

Apparition

Aug 30 2005, 05:46 PM

A 17 year old calling others kids. Funny stuff.

I have seen you go to other peoples threads and act in the exact same fashion these people are towards your post here. Dont like it do ya? heh.

Poor theory. Next?

Mr Ed

Aug 30 2005, 06:00 PM

QUOTE(Apparition @ Aug 30 2005, 05:46 PM)

A 17 year old calling others kids. Funny stuff.

I have seen you go to other peoples threads and act in the exact same fashion these people are towards your post here. Dont like it do ya? heh.

Poor theory. Next?
[right][snapback]817878[/snapback][/right]

Tsk Tsk, I don't think I ever said I wasn't a kid. I am a kid, immature, I like to go out drink, shout, and play fight. Yep, I am a kid. Never denied it.

QUOTE

Dont like it do ya? heh.

Erm, they aren't replying like me, they are replying like them. I do like however their reply, it gives me ample opportunity to gleefully waste whole minutes of my life.

QUOTE

Poor theory. Next?

Cliche? next?

Piney

Aug 30 2005, 11:35 PM

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Aug 30 2005, 02:00 PM)

QUOTE(Apparition @ Aug 30 2005, 05:46 PM)

A 17 year old calling others kids. Funny stuff.

I have seen you go to other peoples threads and act in the exact same fashion these people are towards your post here. Dont like it do ya? heh.

Poor theory. Next?
[right][snapback]817878[/snapback][/right]

Tsk Tsk, I don't think I ever said I wasn't a kid. I am a kid, immature, I like to go out drink, shout, and play fight. Yep, I am a kid. Never denied it.

QUOTE

Dont like it do ya? heh.

Erm, they aren't replying like me, they are replying like them. I do like however their reply, it gives me ample opportunity to gleefully waste whole minutes of my life.

QUOTE

Poor theory. Next?

Cliche? next?
[right][snapback]817915[/snapback][/right]

OK Next?

What happened to your membership in the 'Steel Circle' Ed? Were they too open minded for you, too mature, just could not put up with your obnoxious attitude. Ya just wasn't their bunny.......

lapi'che yeng'ee un'kache Next?

Megalomania

Aug 31 2005, 08:06 AM

Haha, this is funny

We should have more convos like this.. it's entertaining

I'm only gunna be an innocent bystander though

PS: Thanks to Piney for bringing this to my attention

Mr Ed

Aug 31 2005, 04:41 PM

QUOTE(Piney @ Aug 30 2005, 11:35 PM)

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Aug 30 2005, 02:00 PM)

QUOTE(Apparition @ Aug 30 2005, 05:46 PM)

A 17 year old calling others kids. Funny stuff.

I have seen you go to other peoples threads and act in the exact same fashion these people are towards your post here. Dont like it do ya? heh.

Poor theory. Next?
[right][snapback]817878[/snapback][/right]

Tsk Tsk, I don't think I ever said I wasn't a kid. I am a kid, immature, I like to go out drink, shout, and play fight. Yep, I am a kid. Never denied it.

QUOTE

Dont like it do ya? heh.

Erm, they aren't replying like me, they are replying like them. I do like however their reply, it gives me ample opportunity to gleefully waste whole minutes of my life.

QUOTE

Poor theory. Next?

Cliche? next?
[right][snapback]817915[/snapback][/right]

OK Next?

What happened to your membership in the 'Steel Circle' Ed? Were they too open minded for you, too mature, just could not put up with your obnoxious attitude. Ya just wasn't their bunny.......

lapi'che yeng'ee un'kache Next?
[right][snapback]818388[/snapback][/right]

Erm I actually left the Steel Circle on my own accord. Wrong again huh? Damn, looks like it is becoming a habit for you.

I think your pathetic attempts to resort to my level should end now, let's get back on discussion, no need to flame. Oh.

muddyfrog

Sep 1 2005, 06:29 AM

Im saying ED...

How do YOU explain OUR experiences...

Forget all else k? Now tell me why I had an OBE When I was really sick?

Plz do. does the article say anything about that?

Scientists are becoming stupid to save their own rep. Ironic and true.

Scientific method, Ever hear of that Ed?

Take hypothesis then Test then conclude... Conclusion not match hypothesis try again.

Oh and Mr. ED what are you calling an OBE? What is it like Mr ED? Did the article tell you?

Mabey the article told you what your favorite food is too? That would be useful.
Random I know

Silly Mr ED... What experiment did these scientists do by the way? Take a survey?
HE HE...

Science is expanding not shrinking <---- Best remember that.
I can tell you 100% I had an OBE.
I can tell you 100% It was because I was insanely sick.

But somone on the inside experiensing coudnt possibly know as much as a scientist on the outside looking in hmm?

Oh yeah last thing Im 18; I thought I said that?
But I should say that age is irrelevant compared to maturity. (people judge people based on their own self, You can't jusdge what you don't know)

Trust yourself MR ED... seriously.
If you know what I mean by that then mabey you've learned something just now.

Ill give you my opinion; OBE are not caused by self esteem issues. Not a real OBE that is.

Megalomania

Sep 1 2005, 10:18 AM

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Sep 1 2005, 02:41 AM)

Erm I actually left the Steel Circle on my own accord. Wrong again huh? Damn, looks like it is becoming a habit for you.

I think your pathetic attempts to resort to my level should end now, let's get back on discussion, no need to flame. Oh.
[right][snapback]819480[/snapback][/right]

You are my idol

LOL. Nice work

It was mean, but certainly entertaining.

QUOTE

I can tell you 100% I had an OBE.
I can tell you 100% It was because I was insanely sick.

My friend is sick at the moment, he is experiencing hallucinations.
And I'm not lying, my friend is having these problems.
Now, was it just your sickness that made you think you had an OBE maybe?

Basketcase

Sep 1 2005, 11:49 AM

Mr Ed what are you trying to prove from this extract of a report? Because it says that people with low self esteem apparently have OBE's, not that OBE's do not exist. I have had 3 'OBEs', although I wouldn't call them that as I could see through my eyelids, and I know it wasn't a dream because I know when I hav a dream, I know how it feels. Also the pictures I saw were unbelievably clear. And by the way I'm 18, I had the OBEs last year and I am not a delusional kid. I look forward to your snarkly comments about this post Mr sarcastic

Turtle

Sep 1 2005, 11:56 AM

Good to see so much interest in OBE's
If you wish to understand more may I suggest you check out the following link, which has oddles of info on OBE's with many people posting their own experiences.

http://www.oberf.org/

Blessings

muddyfrog

Sep 1 2005, 08:22 PM

If you read what I said it should be 100% clear lol.

I had a bad fever for about 4 days, Not delusional though.

That was the cause. I think I already explained what happened?

Anyone who has had one knows you can't think you had one; unless you didn't have one and are exagerating. Since I was the one who experienced it I'm the only one who could know.

-Left body
-flipped over in air
-panic panic panic
-calm a little and stare at myself
-back up against ceiling
-Can't take it anymore
-sort of will it to end (like you would a dream, But Don't get the wrong idea it wasn't a dream)
-Shoot back inside me and make a quick jolt(was trying to move the whole time)
This got attention of my family. "whats wrong"
I never told them,I don't know why I just told all of you.
Well I do know..... (I HATE STUPIDITY!!!)
AND I FIGHT FOR TRUTH

2 other people where in the room My dad and brother.
They were watching football. I coudn't talk while it was happening.
I coudn't control my body at all. I looked lifeless which is why I Panicked.
I saw the top of my dads head (birds eye view of the whole room).

I didn't hear of OBEs till about 2 years ago Id say (sylvia brown on montel)
This all happened when I was 8-9, about 10 years ago

AND no I can't spell

DarkEntity99

Sep 2 2005, 05:18 AM

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Aug 27 2005, 01:06 PM)

This may not be the answer, but it is a far better one than any people on this site have provided so far.
[right][snapback]812518[/snapback][/right]

NO it's not!
that whole paragraph was 100% garbage.
please go discard that rubbish in the proper place.

thanks

I bid you good day

Oh you're only 17, now everything makes perfect sense.
I can stop wasteing my time reading you're useless posts from now on.
Come back when you're older.
Your brain has much development to go through still.
You're just some young kid mad because he thinks parnormal things are not real, so he comes on here and complains about.
Good way to waste your teen years.
"young padawan you still are... HMMMMM"

Mr Ed

Sep 2 2005, 03:29 PM

Ok, this is the deal. I can't be bothered reading all of your threads, I only read Replacements (thanks

).

Therefore, my laziness has led me to come to this conclusion. I hope it enriches all of your lives.

Scientists know more than teenage kids who sit at a computer all day and believe in the loch ness monster.

Thankyou.

(Note: generalisation, I know not all of you are the above example, but I am making a point)

Edit- also, I never said it is conclusive, I said it is more likely than all of your explanations.

muddyfrog

Sep 2 2005, 07:18 PM

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Sep 2 2005, 10:29 AM)

Ok, this is the deal. I can't be bothered reading all of your threads, I only read Replacements (thanks

).

Therefore, my laziness has led me to come to this conclusion. I hope it enriches all of your lives.

Scientists know more than teenage kids who sit at a computer all day and believe in the loch ness monster.

Thankyou.

(Note: generalisation, I know not all of you are the above example, but I am making a point)

Edit- also, I never said it is conclusive, I said it is more likely than all of your explanations.
[right][snapback]823091[/snapback][/right]

Mr ED you are a teen. Not everyone on here is. Thats first.
Who believes in loch ness. I havent seen anyone post of it.
How do you know that believes held aren't well founded over time by many experiences.

How do you know (as you said you are a teen on an internet forum) that their explanation is any more likely?

Only they could know that (being scientists and all

)

mrs.oldham4

Sep 2 2005, 08:17 PM

Ok people, take it easy on teens. I was and still am very intelligent and wise beyond my years as a teen. I don't neccessarily agree with the theory, but I respect others opinions regardless of their age. Please don't demean anyone because of their age, My four year old knows more than most adults. But your hostile reactions are making you seem far less intelligent than I'm sure you really are.

Love and light

Mr Ed

Sep 2 2005, 08:25 PM

QUOTE

Mr ED you are a teen. Not everyone on here is. Thats first.
Who believes in loch ness. I havent seen anyone post of it.

I seriously hope that statement was made as a joke, if it wasn't you really have to learn how to understand someone elses argument.
You have completely missed the point.

QUOTE

How do you know (as you said you are a teen on an internet forum) that their explanation is any more likely?

Again, I hope you are joking. Scientists are educated adults. They carry out studies and experiments in a proffessional nature. They test and test again. They take surveys. Scientists have created cures, weapons, everything we use today.
Therefore they are a damnsight more reliable than a kid who come on this site and says I GOT AN OBE AND I WASN'T DREAMING, HONEST, I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME I AM NOT A KID.
Yes, that's right, believe it or not.
That is why I value a scientists theory, and that is all it is, a theory, infinitely higher than your opinion.

QUOTE

Ok people, take it easy on teens. I was and still am very intelligent and wise beyond my years as a teen

You must have had a really boring time as a teenager then. My condolences.

QUOTE

My four year old knows more than most adults.

No, that is completley and utterly absurd. Please refrain from such comments unless you are clear that you are joking. I hope you are joking. Actually, to even say that as an exaggeration is just no.

QUOTE

But your hostile reactions are making you seem far less intelligent than I'm sure you really are.

No they aren't. You don't know how intelligent I am.

QUOTE

Love and light

Seriously, wtf.

Edit: Hey guys, I just enjoy coming on here occasionally and winding you blind believers up

. Let's keep this friendly.

muddyfrog

Sep 2 2005, 11:31 PM

Edit: Hey guys, I just enjoy coming on here occasionally and winding you blind believers up

. Let's keep this friendly.

Ok this is my point right here...

This is why I made the statements about you not being a scientist.

You are a blind believer...

I had an experience so am basing what I say off that first hand knowledge.

You don't have first hand knowledge... So that is why you are the blind believer and not me.

Unless you're telling me that you carried out the same experiment they did?

Do you see what I mean?

EDIT: I didn't ask if their explanation is more likely...
I asked how could YOU know that...

You aren't a scientist and you havent experienced what is in question either...

So you are in no position to be knowing anything, for sure...

Mr Ed

Sep 3 2005, 07:26 AM

Eh? Why make blind believers in bold? That is what most of you are.

QUOTE

You are a blind believer...

Aha! Yet another typical poor tactic. You have just started to call me whatever I call you, if I say you are ignorant then you say I am, if I say that you are a blind believer then you say I am...It happens a lot.
Please don't be silly. It is quite obvious that you are the blind believer, not me.
Well if you have the powers that control the wind maybe you aren't a blind believer...maybe something else....

QUOTE

I had an experience so am basing what I say off that first hand knowledge.

You don't have first hand knowledge... So that is why you are the blind believer and not me.

Ah! You had an experience! Bye bye conventional science, this guy over here had a personal experience that he cannot prove and will not prove! Here! Over here!

See my point?

QUOTE

EDIT: I didn't ask if their explanation is more likely...
I asked how could YOU know that...

You aren't a scientist and you havent experienced what is in question either...

So you are in no position to be knowing anything, for sure...

I never said I was sure of anything. I think you have completely missed the point. I of course am not a scientist, this whole thing is me listening to scientists and valuing their experiments over your personal experience.
I don't know if their theory is right, but I know for sure that I value it above your personal experience...

muddyfrog

Sep 3 2005, 04:22 PM

QUOTE

I never said I was sure of anything. I think you have completely missed the point. I of course am not a scientist, this whole thing is me listening to scientists and valuing their experiments over your personal experience.
I don't know if their theory is right, but I know for sure that I value it above your personal experience...
[right][snapback]824395[/snapback][/right]

Most of us are blind believers? Who are we? Why do you associate me with other people?

Most of you are blind skeptics... Don't you see the its the same thing?

Ever heard that seeing is believing(of course you have)?

A blind believer is someone who believes in god (or something like that)
I didn't ever hear or believe in OBE before it happened to me. I felt what it was like. I saw myself lying on the couch (looking pretty dead I might add).

But seriously If you ever have one you will see.

As time goes by more and more things can not be explained by science. Scientists HATE to be wrong, so theory largely stays put. Most scientists don't have the guts to try and prove otherwise. (Look at all the best scientists) They all went against common knowledge of the time. Thats why they are so great. They used as little preconceived notions as possible.

And just cause they are scientists does not mean they know more than me.
It means they know more science than me. Does science know what actually happens in an OBE? How does it happen (not why)

You see they don't have all the answers either. I would believe them if they knew
why and how. If you may have noticed lately, not having why and how together leads to many problems.

EDIT: I also DO NOT expect you or anyone else to believe me. How could you?
I wouldn't believe me except I was there. All I want you to believe is that you shouldn't trust anyone not even scientists. Sure you can believe them 99%. I would try and find out myself though. They can be wrong.

Mr Ed

Sep 3 2005, 05:10 PM

QUOTE

Most of us are blind believers? Who are we? Why do you associate me with other people?

Look around, you will see the definition staring at you in the face. I associate you with other people because you speak in exactly the same way and use exactly the same weak arguments.

QUOTE

Most of you are blind skeptics... Don't you see the its the same thing?

Of course it isn't the same thing, don't be so silly. Skeptics accept proof. Believers believe without solid proof. Therefore it is clear that there is an extreme difference. There is no such thing as a blind skeptic, but there are many examples of blind believers.

QUOTE

A blind believer is someone who believes in god (or something like that)

A blind believer is someone who believes in anything blindly...just as people believe in psi.
Oh wait they have proof, they can make balls by controlling their energy...yeah...

QUOTE

As time goes by more and more things can not be explained by science. Scientists HATE to be wrong, so theory largely stays put.

See sense. If scientists went around validating every theory before it was proved conclusively then there would be constant errors, arguments and fatal flaws.
Science is not scared of being wrong, but it needs to be right as we live by it.

QUOTE

Most scientists don't have the guts to try and prove otherwise. (Look at all the best scientists) They all went against common knowledge of the time. Thats why they are so great. They used as little preconceived notions as possible.

Rubbish, not about having guts. It is about being realistic, scientific, and following the laws of science and physics.

QUOTE

And just cause they are scientists does not mean they know more than me.
It means they know more science than me. Does science know what actually happens in an OBE? How does it happen (not why)

Yes, they do know more than you.
Much more, they have done degrees.
I am guessing you are about 12 from the way you are writing, if you are an adult then...So basing it on that they have about 30 years of life experience on you.

Erm, the latest theory shows how it is to do with something sensory whatdyacallit in the brain not connecting.
A theory, not fact. But that theory is much more reliable than your theory.

QUOTE

You see they don't have all the answers either.

Obviously. I don't see what saying that achieves. I am merely pointing out that scientists theories are infinitely more reliable and valuable than yours. To me and most of the world that is.
I am not saying they have all the answers, but they certainly have more answers than you.

QUOTE

EDIT: I also DO NOT expect you or anyone else to believe me. How could you?
I wouldn't believe me except I was there. All I want you to believe is that you shouldn't trust anyone not even scientists. Sure you can believe them 99%. I would try and find out myself though. They can be wrong.

You are completely missing the point. I am not saying the theory is fact. I am saying it could be wrong, but is much more likely to be right than your opinion/theory.
They can be wrong, but you are more likely to be wrong.

muddyfrog

Sep 3 2005, 06:55 PM

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Sep 3 2005, 12:10 PM)

QUOTE

Most of us are blind believers? Who are we? Why do you associate me with other people?

Look around, you will see the definition staring at you in the face. I associate you with other people because you speak in exactly the same way and use exactly the same weak arguments.

QUOTE

Most of you are blind skeptics... Don't you see the its the same thing?

Of course it isn't the same thing, don't be so silly. Skeptics accept proof. Believers believe without solid proof. Therefore it is clear that there is an extreme difference. There is no such thing as a blind skeptic, but there are many examples of blind believers.

QUOTE

A blind believer is someone who believes in god (or something like that)

A blind believer is someone who believes in anything blindly...just as people believe in psi.
Oh wait they have proof, they can make balls by controlling their energy...yeah...

QUOTE

As time goes by more and more things can not be explained by science. Scientists HATE to be wrong, so theory largely stays put.

See sense. If scientists went around validating every theory before it was proved conclusively then there would be constant errors, arguments and fatal flaws.
Science is not scared of being wrong, but it needs to be right as we live by it.

QUOTE

Most scientists don't have the guts to try and prove otherwise. (Look at all the best scientists) They all went against common knowledge of the time. Thats why they are so great. They used as little preconceived notions as possible.

Rubbish, not about having guts. It is about being realistic, scientific, and following the laws of science and physics.

QUOTE

And just cause they are scientists does not mean they know more than me.
It means they know more science than me. Does science know what actually happens in an OBE? How does it happen (not why)

Yes, they do know more than you.
Much more, they have done degrees.
I am guessing you are about 12 from the way you are writing, if you are an adult then...So basing it on that they have about 30 years of life experience on you.

Erm, the latest theory shows how it is to do with something sensory whatdyacallit in the brain not connecting.
A theory, not fact. But that theory is much more reliable than your theory.

QUOTE

You see they don't have all the answers either.

Obviously. I don't see what saying that achieves. I am merely pointing out that scientists theories are infinitely more reliable and valuable than yours. To me and most of the world that is.
I am not saying they have all the answers, but they certainly have more answers than you.

QUOTE

EDIT: I also DO NOT expect you or anyone else to believe me. How could you?
I wouldn't believe me except I was there. All I want you to believe is that you shouldn't trust anyone not even scientists. Sure you can believe them 99%. I would try and find out myself though. They can be wrong.

You are completely missing the point. I am not saying the theory is fact. I am saying it could be wrong, but is much more likely to be right than your opinion/theory.
They can be wrong, but you are more likely to be wrong.
[right][snapback]824800[/snapback][/right]

I do see your point Mr ED.

Look Mr ED slow down a little please. Read carefully for I have told you my age 2 times already. 18, But being older doesn't mean I have more exp than you does it?
Nor does it mean a scientist has more life exp than me. Have they had OBEs or not? have you or not? those arent retorical Qs please answer.

The point you are missing is that I don't have a theory yet. I just disagree with what they think.

If I am more likely to be wrong, (it's True) then I can be right. So how would you tell?

By doing your own research and coming to your own conclusion.

Let me ask you this:

Is your theory their theory? Please tell me your theory.

I think their theory might explain a few cases mabey 10%. That is what I think.
There is never one answer when it comes to the human brain.

Explain to me how I saw myself and everything else that was under me(the me outside my body not one on the couch).

EDIT:

To give you a better picture of me here are some of my beliefs.

-A lot of people on this site can not be believed.
-I don't want to hear anything about psi
-Meditation is GREAT
-God is real (im not religious, never have been)
-People are easily mis-led (why I don't trust everything people say EVEN scientists)
-Pot is very mis-understood
-favorite music: Narallis, Beatles(especially JL), Brian wilson,Bob Marley, Wyclef, and some eminem. I like pretty much all music these just my favorite.
-Not everything is so easy to explain.
-UFO are obviously real. Cracks me up to see people say they don't believe in UFOs (Anything Flying you can't ID)
-Some UFOs Are USA (Black triangle) Some could be alien. Talking of the very few % that are actually unexplained by natural things and military jets.
-Bush is a retard (or is he acting

)
-The war in Iraq is dumb,but people who want us to leave now are even more dumb (anarchy isn't pretty)

Im shipping out to Basic Training Jan 11, 2005.
My MOS is Bradley mechanic.

Mr Ed

Sep 3 2005, 08:18 PM

QUOTE

Look Mr ED slow down a little please. Read carefully for I have told you my age 2 times already. 18,

Ouch...well you have been acting like the rest of the 12 year olds at times.

I can't be arsed at the moment to type. I am too tired and lazy.
Have a nice life for the mean time, I will write tomorrow.

Edit: That nice life thing was scincere by the way.

muddyfrog

Sep 3 2005, 10:44 PM

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Sep 3 2005, 03:18 PM)

QUOTE

Look Mr ED slow down a little please. Read carefully for I have told you my age 2 times already. 18,

Ouch...well you have been acting like the rest of the 12 year olds at times.

I can't be arsed at the moment to type. I am too tired and lazy.
Have a nice life for the mean time, I will write tomorrow.

Edit: That nice life thing was scincere by the way.
[right][snapback]825141[/snapback][/right]

Thx,

You have a nice life too.

Turtle

Sep 4 2005, 12:16 AM

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Sep 2 2005, 04:25 PM)

QUOTE

Mr ED you are a teen. Not everyone on here is. Thats first.
Who believes in loch ness. I havent seen anyone post of it.

I seriously hope that statement was made as a joke, if it wasn't you really have to learn how to understand someone elses argument.
You have completely missed the point.

QUOTE

How do you know (as you said you are a teen on an internet forum) that their explanation is any more likely?

Again, I hope you are joking. Scientists are educated adults. They carry out studies and experiments in a professional nature. They test and test again. They take surveys. Scientists have created cures, weapons, everything we use today.
Therefore they are a damn sight more reliable than a kid who come on this site and says I GOT AN OBE AND I WASN'T DREAMING, HONEST, I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME I AM NOT A KID.
Yes, that's right, believe it or not.
That is why I value a scientists theory, and that is all it is, a theory, infinitely higher than your opinion.

QUOTE

Ok people, take it easy on teens. I was and still am very intelligent and wise beyond my years as a teen

You must have had a really boring time as a teenager then. My condolences.

QUOTE

My four year old knows more than most adults.

No, that is completely and utterly absurd. Please refrain from such comments unless you are clear that you are joking. I hope you are joking. Actually, to even say that as an exaggeration is just no.

QUOTE

But your hostile reactions are making you seem far less intelligent than I'm sure you really are.

No they aren't. You don't know how intelligent I am.

QUOTE

Love and light

Seriously, wtf.

Edit: Hey guys, I just enjoy coming on here occasionally and winding you blind believers up

. Let's keep this friendly.
[right][snapback]823568[/snapback][/right]

Mr Ed.
You claim that you are only 17 years of age.
You write many years beyond your stated age, which perplexes me why you would make some far reaching determination based on ONE article, and then defend it as though this is your new mission.
Why the piqued interest?
I have been studying NDE/STE and OOBE's for over 5 years trying to find an answer for my own experience (NDE), and I would never make such far reaching conclusions based on ONE article. I have been staying this phenomena for over 5 years and still don't have a clear cut answer.
Which then begs me to ask, 'Why the keen interest in refuting OOBE'[s?

You seem to have an above average intelligence, so snide remarks just make you look bad....comprende? Instead of belittling people, perhaps you could expand your knowledge by asking the people here to relate their experiences, as any scientist knows, the first line of proof is in the FIRST HAND knowledge.
There are many areas of science now which are beginning to understand the function of the brain, and the state of consciousness.
If you are truly interested in this subject, you need to start investigating areas like Quantum Physics, Metaphysics, and studies relating to the mind and brain function.
Further a few history lessons in Einsteins theories as they relate to western scientific ethos wouldn't hurt either.
It all depends though on your motivation for the interest you display for OOBE's

Blessings
\
EDIT: spelling

Mr Ed

Sep 4 2005, 07:40 AM

QUOTE(muddyfrog @ Sep 3 2005, 07:55 PM)

QUOTE(Mr Ed @ Sep 3 2005, 12:10 PM)

QUOTE

Most of us are blind believers? Who are we? Why do you associate me with other people?

Look around, you will see the definition staring at you in the face. I associate you with other people because you speak in exactly the same way and use exactly the same weak arguments.

QUOTE

Most of you are blind skeptics... Don't you see the its the same thing?

Of course it isn't the same thing, don't be so silly. Skeptics accept proof. Believers believe without solid proof. Therefore it is clear that there is an extreme difference. There is no such thing as a blind skeptic, but there are many examples of blind believers.

QUOTE

A blind believer is someone who believes in god (or something like that)

A blind believer is someone who believes in anything blindly...just as people believe in psi.
Oh wait they have proof, they can make balls by controlling their energy...yeah...

QUOTE

As time goes by more and more things can not be explained by science. Scientists HATE to be wrong, so theory largely stays put.

See sense. If scientists went around validating every theory before it was proved conclusively then there would be constant errors, arguments and fatal flaws.
Science is not scared of being wrong, but it needs to be right as we live by it.

QUOTE

Most scientists don't have the guts to try and prove otherwise. (Look at all the best scientists) They all went against common knowledge of the time. Thats why they are so great. They used as little preconceived notions as possible.

Rubbish, not about having guts. It is about being realistic, scientific, and following the laws of science and physics.

QUOTE

And just cause they are scientists does not mean they know more than me.
It means they know more science than me. Does science know what actually happens in an OBE? How does it happen (not why)

Yes, they do know more than you.
Much more, they have done degrees.
I am guessing you are about 12 from the way you are writing, if you are an adult then...So basing it on that they have about 30 years of life experience on you.

Erm, the latest theory shows how it is to do with something sensory whatdyacallit in the brain not connecting.
A theory, not fact. But that theory is much more reliable than your theory.

QUOTE

You see they don't have all the answers either.

Obviously. I don't see what saying that achieves. I am merely pointing out that scientists theories are infinitely more reliable and valuable than yours. To me and most of the world that is.
I am not saying they have all the answers, but they certainly have more answers than you.

QUOTE

EDIT: I also DO NOT expect you or anyone else to believe me. How could you?
I wouldn't believe me except I was there. All I want you to believe is that you shouldn't trust anyone not even scientists. Sure you can believe them 99%. I would try and find out myself though. They can be wrong.

You are completely missing the point. I am not saying the theory is fact. I am saying it could be wrong, but is much more likely to be right than your opinion/theory.
They can be wrong, but you are more likely to be wrong.
[right][snapback]824800[/snapback][/right]

I do see your point Mr ED.

Look Mr ED slow down a little please. Read carefully for I have told you my age 2 times already. 18, But being older doesn't mean I have more exp than you does it?
Nor does it mean a scientist has more life exp than me. Have they had OBEs or not? have you or not? those arent retorical Qs please answer.

The point you are missing is that I don't have a theory yet. I just disagree with what they think.

If I am more likely to be wrong, (it's True) then I can be right. So how would you tell?

By doing your own research and coming to your own conclusion.

Let me ask you this:

Is your theory their theory? Please tell me your theory.

I think their theory might explain a few cases mabey 10%. That is what I think.
There is never one answer when it comes to the human brain.

Explain to me how I saw myself and everything else that was under me(the me outside my body not one on the couch).

EDIT:

To give you a better picture of me here are some of my beliefs.

-A lot of people on this site can not be believed.
-I don't want to hear anything about psi
-Meditation is GREAT
-God is real (im not religious, never have been)
-People are easily mis-led (why I don't trust everything people say EVEN scientists)
-Pot is very mis-understood
-favorite music: Narallis, Beatles(especially JL), Brian wilson,Bob Marley, Wyclef, and some eminem. I like pretty much all music these just my favorite.
-Not everything is so easy to explain.
-UFO are obviously real. Cracks me up to see people say they don't believe in UFOs (Anything Flying you can't ID)
-Some UFOs Are USA (Black triangle) Some could be alien. Talking of the very few % that are actually unexplained by natural things and military jets.
-Bush is a retard (or is he acting

)
-The war in Iraq is dumb,but people who want us to leave now are even more dumb (anarchy isn't pretty)

Im shipping out to Basic Training Jan 11, 2005.
My MOS is Bradley mechanic.
[right][snapback]825024[/snapback][/right]

I don't have a theory. I have been saying from the start that I consider their theory the next best thing to an answer. This is because there is no realistic alternative present to me at the moment.
I don't put all my faith in this theory because the matter does not mean much tgo me and I don't know if the theory will be proven right.

You asked me to explain your OBE. Go to the main news page and go to page 2 or something, there you will find a link to the research. That is a possible way it happened, to do with brain sensory thingymagigys. However, it is a more probable way it happened when considering all other known possibilities.